Voice_of_Reason

Game of Thrones Season 8

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On point, VoR. I'd say the reason why the last 2 seasons, and especially last season, was so rushed is due to the lack of content from GRRM. It's obvious that they received plot points and general direction from him, but without any kind of roadmap, they were left to their own to tell the story. Also, I think the showrunners are getting burned out, since the production of that show is incredibly difficult and they've basically been working nonstop for 8 years now. The faster pace of last season was a bit jarring, but given the constraints they're under, and with a lack of content to prolong the series, it makes sense.

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I'm fairly certain that my introduction to Harry Potter was the second movie. Friends dragged me to it, because it was an event. I was stunned by how much I enjoyed it and immediately read the first four books. I can't remember if the 5th book came before or after the 3rd movie, but the point is that series was not done when the filming started. And that's pretty strange for a book/movie relationship. And to Rowling's credit, she kept the product coming on a pretty regular schedule, though that fifth book was obviously the product of someone who had both writer's block and entirely too much to say simultaneously.

 

I wonder if going forward, studios are going to be less likely to dive into a series in its middle or if they are just going to say, "We're finishing this in X years whether you are done or not."

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18 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I wonder if going forward, studios are going to be less likely to dive into a series in its middle or if they are just going to say, "We're finishing this in X years whether you are done or not."

 

To be fair, virtually any author could have finished a book or two within 7-8 years. GRRM is beyond a slow writer; I think he just stopped giving a **** at a certain point. If he had literally written 1 page PER WEEK since ADwD came out, he would have another complete book to publish. Committed writers like Rowling have finished an entire series in the time GRRM finishes one book. I'm sure the showrunners at HBO, who began the series just before the 5th book came out, had no idea he would sloth his way to complete writing failure for 8 years.

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59 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I'm fairly certain that my introduction to Harry Potter was the second movie. Friends dragged me to it, because it was an event. I was stunned by how much I enjoyed it and immediately read the first four books. I can't remember if the 5th book came before or after the 3rd movie, but the point is that series was not done when the filming started. And that's pretty strange for a book/movie relationship. And to Rowling's credit, she kept the product coming on a pretty regular schedule, though that fifth book was obviously the product of someone who had both writer's block and entirely too much to say simultaneously.

 

I wonder if going forward, studios are going to be less likely to dive into a series in its middle or if they are just going to say, "We're finishing this in X years whether you are done or not."

I actually was similar, I actually saw the first movie with my group of friends, particularly a cute brunette who I was interested in at the time, somewhat against my will. That was November 2001.   And I liked the movie enough that I went back and read the first 4 books, which were released at that point.  The brunette moved on, but I will always have Harry Potter.... :P 

 

The release order was thus:

 

June 19997 - BOOK (1) Sorcerer's Stone

July 1998  - BOOK (2) Chamber of Secrets

July 1999 - BOOK (3) Prisoner of Azkaban

July 2000 - BOOK (4) Goblet of Fire

November 2001 - MOVIE (1) Sorcerer's Stone

November 2002 - MOVIE (2) Chamber of Secrets

July 2003 - BOOK (5) Order of the Phoenix

July 2004 - MOVIE (3) Prisoner of Azkaban

July 2005 - BOOK (6) Half Blood Prince

November 2005 - MOVIE (4) Goblet of Fire

July 2007 - MOVIE (5) Order of the Phoenix

July 2007 - BOOK (7) Deathly Hallows

July 2009 - MOVIE (6) Half Blood Prince

November 2010 - MOVIE Deathly Hallows Part I

July 2011 - MOVIE Deathly Hallows Part 2

 

J.K. wrote the entire series of books in 10 years.  The longest span between books was 3 years, I think, between books 4 and 5.  

 

The movies never got to within 2 of the books.

 

I also forgot that July 2007 we got both the Movie of Order of the Phoenix AND the last book dropped 2 weeks later.  

 

Also interesting, there were 2 years where nothing was released, 2006 and 2008. I know they shot the last 2 movies together, and then released them separately, which is how they were able to get the last 2 movies out so closely together.

 

The issue really is that J.K. did her job, and GRRM is just not doing his.  

 

I think one thing studios might consider is to put in some type of a financial incentive/penalty when the sign the rights with an author.  "If you don't release books on this schedule, we will not pay you xyz amount of your royalties" or something like that.

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I think GRRM is more the exception instead of the rule. Dude just isn’t even trying. Where Rowling was motivated in finishing the series and not lying to her fanbase. 

 

I dont think you’ll see another writer screw over his readers and studio as bad GRRM did. But it wouldn’t surprise me at if these contracts for TV shows and movies started having language written in for huge penalties when the writer doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain. 

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8 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

I think GRRM is more the exception instead of the rule. Dude just isn’t even trying. Where Rowling was motivated in finishing the series and not lying to her fanbase. 

 

I dont think you’ll see another writer screw over his readers and studio as bad GRRM did. But it wouldn’t surprise me at if these contracts for TV shows and movies started having language written in for huge penalties when the writer doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain. 

Though, honestly, HBO should have had an incling that this could happen. 

 

The first book was released in August 1996.  Here are the release dates of the books:

 

#    Title    US release
1    A Game of Thrones    August 1996
2    A Clash of Kings    February 1999]
3    A Storm of Swords    November 2000
4    A Feast for Crows    November 2005
5    A Dance with Dragons    July 2011**

 

Game of Thrones premiered in April 2011.  So, only 4 of the planned 7 books had been released when the series premiered, and it had taken GRRM 11 years to finish them. I am guessing they knew the Dance with Dragons release date, but given that it had taken 5 years to get from Storm to Feast, and 6 from Feast to Dance, they had to know, or at least expect that it was going to take 4 or 5 years between each of the next 2 books.  Granted, I don't think they predicted GRRM would 8 years and not release the next book.

 

However, the track record of taking a bit of time to get the books out was already in place.  

 

Shrug, not much they can do about it. I personally think the guy is a bit of a git for doing this to his fans, both of the show and the books.  Let's not forget that GRRM actually wrote several episodes of the show early on...  He was definitely invested in the show being succesful.
 

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I'm not a book reader as I've said 50 times. I actually considered starting the books after Season 1, but it seemed like a monumental amount of reading for a genre I typically despise, and there were already some small rumblings that if you started the books, your best case scenario of getting both of the the new ones was 2020ish.

 

I'm glad I didn't, because I would be furious at having invested so much and not see the thing done.

 

I do know enough that while the show has so many characters, I stopped learning their names (Red Haired Wilding who is a Dude, Hot Translator, Sam's side piece, etc) that the book apparently has 3 or 4 times that many and they are spread out all over the goddamn place.

 

Here's what ultimately I think: GRRM can't complete these things. He's apparently developed this style where the story just gets more and more expansive. And he can't get everyone in the right place and cull the cast without just having everyone killed by plague or something.

 

There's a reason that no one else writes this way.

 

Back to Potter, because that thing was a model of efficiency despite the cast being enormous. She didn't feel the need to have Mad Eye Moody and Neville Longbottom go off on their own adventure (which would have been really really uncomfortable now that I think about it) and get sidetracked for three or four books. In the final book, Ginny and Neville were having their own year of amazing adventures while Harry and the gang were wondering around the woods aimlessly. And honestly, I probably would have enjoyed those adventures more than the slog that the middle of 7 was. But she knew who the main characters were and we apparently needed to hang out with them in a tent for 200 pages while they yelled at each other. (I've never reread Hallows in its entirety. I always skip to the part where they rob the bank).

 

 

How many episodes are left again? In a weird way, I think they may have gone so fast in the last season that they are going to need to stretch out the ending. I mean, the white walkers are across the wall. They will either by at Winterfell by Episode 2 or the very last one depending on which version of travel they use. Once that happens, **** gets real, right?

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother

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There are 6 episodes left, all rumored to be movie length.

 

But the word is that GRRM doesn’t know how to logically get all the characters to where they need to be in a way that makes sense. Apparently this is what took him so long to get thru the last two books but now he just has this sprawling epic of plot points and characters and threads that he can’t possibly hope to tie together. 

 

His only hope is rush events that were setup to be important, disregard other things entirely, drop a lot of the theories and setup he’s done and really fast track this thing to a conclusion, much in the way that season 7 did. 

 

I feel like basically he knows how he wants to end it and can drop specific ideas to D&D but has no idea how to get there personally. So The show just said “**** it, let’s get everything together in the easiest way possible so everybody is where they need to be for the final episodes.” 

 

and as a result we got season 7, an uneven season with some high marks but also some laughably ridiculous things. For the most part, it set the stage for season 8 pretty well. A couple small tweaks could have made it dramatically better and not cheated it own world and rules (im talking about having Dany just go with Jon and wait at East Watch so theoretically Gendry only had to go back to the wall to get help) but regardless, here we are. 

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16 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

There are 6 episodes left, all rumored to be movie length.

 

Yeah, I noticed the final episode of season 7 was roughly an hour and a half long. So each episode of season 8 is going to be that long as well?

 

Edited by Mournblade

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3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Supposedly yes, at least that long

Hopefully we’ll get an extended boat scene with Jon and Danny in episode 8.1.  

 

:cheers:

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I think having that many super long episodes is a bit overkill. The finale though should be two hours for sure, but I don't think they need five other 90 minute episodes leading up to it.

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So long as Sam Tarwell doesn't make too many appearances in any of the episodes...I'm at the point now that as soon he comes on, I hit fast forward.

(He was an interesting character in the books, he's pure filler in the TV series). 

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20 minutes ago, Mournblade said:

So long as Sam Tarwell doesn't make too many appearances in any of the episodes...I'm at the point now that as soon he comes on, I hit fast forward.

(He was an interesting character in the books, he's pure filler in the TV series). 

You know, I thought the whole Sam plot line, with Gilly and baby Sam had been pointless.  Though somewhere along the way, I took a liking to him...

 

Still not my favorite character, but better than he was. 

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7 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I’m fine with him. Not every character can be a Jon Snow. Sam is the GRRM stand-in/avatar. He’s a regular guy that loves to read but is compelled to find his bravery and repeatedly trying to do the right thing. 

 

He's just under-developped in the TV Series. I'm cursed with having read the books (1-5), so I see everything through that perspective. In the books,

he makes absolute sense, and you develop an affection for the character. In the TV series he feels completely tacked on. 

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6 minutes ago, Mournblade said:

 

He's just under-developped in the TV Series. I'm cursed with having read the books (1-5), so I see everything through that perspective. In the books,

he makes absolute sense, and you develop an affection for the character. In the TV series he feels completely tacked on. 

 

I don’t think he feels tacked on he just isn’t a main character. 

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Game of Thrones premiered 7 years ago today. 

 

Not being a book reader, I had no idea what to expect.  What I didn't expect is the naked girl being fondled by her brother was going to become one of the most powerful characters in the series.  

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

It’s a strong opening episode. You can’t really walk away from that 

When I rewatched it I realized how packed it was with content. I don’t think I realized that the first time through.

 

I also think they were smart: big sword lops off weird guys head, naked Emelia, and a dwarf in a brothel.

 

Death and Boobies.  They were telling a story but there was enough “other stuff” to capture the attention of non-book fans right away until they could really get into the story and characters.

Edited by Voice_of_Reason

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I think they knew who the characters were that casual viewers would give a chance to. Dinklage was reasonably famous, and that character is just nothing but an opportunity to entertain. Bean was really famous - especially in the world of fantasy movies. So presenting the show as this noble guy fighting all these horrible people with this drunken dwarf providing ironic commentary and also boobs was pretty smart.

 

I will say, the scenes with Dany in the first episode would not have hooked me had I not seen the final episode first. Watching a girl who appears to be 16 get fondled by her brother and raped by a body builder may be appealing to some of you but not to me.

 

I honestly think the best casting decision they made was Momoa, because he and Emilia had scorching chemistry after the first episode. The show would have been really creepy and uncomfortable if her falling in love with him was not 100 percent believable. And she's clearly not a good enough actress to pull that off with just anyone. Because she's had 0 sexual chemistry with anyone else on the show aside from the hot translator.

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6 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I think they knew who the characters were that casual viewers would give a chance to. Dinklage was reasonably famous, and that character is just nothing but an opportunity to entertain. Bean was really famous - especially in the world of fantasy movies. So presenting the show as this noble guy fighting all these horrible people with this drunken dwarf providing ironic commentary and also boobs was pretty smart.

 

I will say, the scenes with Dany in the first episode would not have hooked me had I not seen the final episode first. Watching a girl who appears to be 16 get fondled by her brother and raped by a body builder may be appealing to some of you but not to me.

 

I honestly think the best casting decision they made was Momoa, because he and Emilia had scorching chemistry after the first episode. The show would have been really creepy and uncomfortable if her falling in love with him was not 100 percent believable. And she's clearly not a good enough actress to pull that off with just anyone. Because she's had 0 sexual chemistry with anyone else on the show aside from the hot translator.

I agree they were smart about who they featured. 

 

For the Dany scene, I think more than the nudity, what was a hook was more the blatant crossing of the line of what you would normally see on TV. It made you sit up and go, “wow, they really went there.  And that guy is an ass.”  Immediately defines a villain, which I think was a bit of a hook.

 

I thought the chemistry between Clarke and Harrington was fine.  But that’s me.   Not as good as Harrington and Leslie, but they are getting married, so that might be a high bar, or as good as Momoa and Clarke.  But that was also extra special. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

It’s a strong opening episode. You can’t really walk away from that 

 

Neither could Bran

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On 3/26/2018 at 3:03 PM, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Here's what ultimately I think: GRRM can't complete these things. He's apparently developed this style where the story just gets more and more expansive. And he can't get everyone in the right place and cull the cast without just having everyone killed by plague or something.

 

 

Yeah, I think you're spot on.  Its not that GRRM is lazy or anything.  Its just that he just doesn't know how to end things.   He's like a relief pitcher in baseball who has a really good breaking ball or maybe unconventional delivery.   But the second time through the lineup, batters aren't fooled and he starts sucking.   As it is, the fourth and fifth books of the series, were incredibly weak compared to Books 1-3, though there were a few great parts in there (like the Cersei ownage at the end of Book 4), there were also alot of tangents that went nowhere and didn't really advance the story. 

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