Darrell Green Fan Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, skinny21 said: Well, it’s actually Smith vs McCoy, Fuller, a 3rd rounder and 17 mil in cap space. So more like Smith or McCoy, Fuller, Zach Brown, Breeland and say Kyle Lualetta or Troy Fumagali. Deal may be even worse if we can’t draft a qb this year. If Brown and Breeland don’t move the needle much, how about Sheldon Richardson, McKinnon and Trent Murphy? Trickles down from there of course - 1) getting Fumagali means we have a replacement for Reed (allowing us to cut him and save money this year or next), 2) getting a dlineman and starting back opens up our 1st and 2nd round picks IMO (qb? wr? S?, ILB?), 3) re-signing Murphy keeps our OLB rotation strong, and 4) retaining Fuller means we don’t have to take a corner in the draft. Again, yes, they got the best qb on the market, but the cost was high. So, the FO “fixed” the uncertainty of the qb position (a situation they had a big hand in bringing about), at the expense of building the team. Hopefully they can dig themselves out of this hole. I am intrigued to see how Smith can do in this offense, which I think the FO is banking on. The game is so dependent on the QB position even in your best case scenario, which will not happen by the way as they will not sign all those guys with the cap savings alone not to mention some of that will be needed for a crappy backup QB, Colt McCoy will pull everything down. You simply can not win in this league with sub par QBing. I happen to think Smith will play well this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvernon Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Or we could have kept both and had a dynamite young secondary that can carry the team kinda like Denver/Seattle. People seem to think just because we have one talented young player at a position it means we can get rid of others. I'd rather keep all our good young players and build one kickass unit that can carry games. And it's not a vacuum. This is Norman's contract in effect - he is taking up ~10% of the cap. The current allocation of the cap for defensive backs is 13th in the NFL. That's with only one expensive contract and one reasonable starters contract. Dunbar was given #3 corner money. Contrary to popular opinion around here, the Redskins have invested early in some players to capitalize on value. Dunbar/Moreau are a great pair to compete on the outside. Hosley is the one who needs competition at nickel corner. Fuller's impact this past season has to be separated from his ability to be a future #1. I don't think he's that player, evidently this coaching staff believes that to be true, and obviously the Chiefs do as well. At this point you have Dunbar/Moreau/Hosley to occupy CB2-4 for 2018. I have more faith in those three than most, I'll admit, because the crux of the issue is stopping the run and collapsing the pocket in the middle. Get more pressure, and you'll see better performance from the outside corners. I actually wasn't too fond of this past draft, but Hosley was a great flyer that was knocked for being exclusively a slot corner (gets you to day 3) and two ACL injuries (should get you undrafted). If healthy for 2018, I am intrigued to see what he can do in the slot. Moreau in the right situation was a great project. I agree with what some have said: he's a cheap younger/stronger Breeland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 35 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: The game is so dependent on the QB position even in your best case scenario, which will not happen by the way as they will not sign all those guys with the cap savings alone not to mention some of that will be needed for a crappy backup QB, Colt McCoy will pull everything down. You simply can not win in this league with sub par QBing. I happen to think Smith will play well this year. Not sure where to start. Yes, the qb position is the most important. Yes, Smith is a much better qb than McCoy. Yes, teams have won Super Bowls with guys not in the top 10 or even 15. I don’t see why they couldn’t afford the guys I mentioned with 17 mil. Maybe they have to pay an extra million or two... but they could afford to. If they want a crappy backup, why not an UDFA? Or, as I mentioned, draft a qb high in an effort to find a franchise qb of the future. I’m assuming Smith will regress this year without the same supporting cast (and not having years of experience in the offense), but, he should be decent. This offense should be a good fit for him. Still think the philosophy is a poor one, unless the thinking is that Smith is the guy that can elevate this team from average to Super Bowl contender, the missing piece of the puzzle. He’s not, and that’s not a knock on him. The FO decided they had to hang onto the mediocrity, and they sacrificed long term strategy to do so. Seems pretty clear they did it to sell tickets and to save their bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveWarrior Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 If Fuller was elite, why was he only playing nickel? Surely, you'd want to have him on the field starting, if he was elite. Breeland is not elite, yet he was a starting CB. Norman is not elite (even though he's paid as such), and yet there he was, starting over Fuller. Fuller is undoubtedly a talented player with a lot of potential, and I'm not happy about him being traded, but at the end of the day, there are several CBs in every draft class who have the same type of potential, and with the right people around him and the right coaching, can develop into solid slot corners. We may even already have one in Fabian Moreau. And BTW, if Fabian does turn into a quality starting corner, I call dibs on being able to take credit for the term "the Island of Dr. Moreau" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 hours ago, skinny21 said: Not sure where to start. Yes, the qb position is the most important. Yes, Smith is a much better qb than McCoy. Yes, teams have won Super Bowls with guys not in the top 10 or even 15. I don’t see why they couldn’t afford the guys I mentioned with 17 mil. Maybe they have to pay an extra million or two... but they could afford to. If they want a crappy backup, why not an UDFA? Or, as I mentioned, draft a qb high in an effort to find a franchise qb of the future. I’m assuming Smith will regress this year without the same supporting cast (and not having years of experience in the offense), but, he should be decent. This offense should be a good fit for him. Still think the philosophy is a poor one, unless the thinking is that Smith is the guy that can elevate this team from average to Super Bowl contender, the missing piece of the puzzle. He’s not, and that’s not a knock on him. The FO decided they had to hang onto the mediocrity, and they sacrificed long term strategy to do so. Seems pretty clear they did it to sell tickets and to save their bacon. To me it's very simply. You will not see a team with a QB as bad as Colt McCoy making playoff runs very often. He is not a top 10-15 QB as you said, no that would be an Alex Smith or a Kirk Cousins territory. McCoy would be hovering around number 30. There is also a reason nearly every bad team has a bad QB situation. And this would be a bad QB situation, obviously. You are implying this year's Eagles proves something. All it proved is if you get a good QB around a very good team you get home field, then you have a backup play lights out (something Colt McCoy is simply not capable of doing) for only 2 games and you can bring home a ring. No I am not pretending Alex Smith is the missing piece to our championship. I am saying at least we can go have us a season. With Colt McCoy, and this front office and their inability to build a team good enough to overcome his shortcomings, we would have been headed for a disastrous season with no hope in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 The only way this ends up being a good trade is if the Redskins make the playoffs each of the next 2 years and win multiple playoff games. Anything else will make everyone question why we tried to win now and gave up future talent. So far this trade is being universally panned as one of the worst ever. I hope thats not the case, but based on who is making the decisions it wouldnt be a shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Breeland is only a bit above average, yet started at CB from Day 1. Maybe because Fuller was drafted onto a team with two starting corners played into it some, but I would guess the coaches treated him as a player with some noticeable skills that one day *might* develop into an outside corner. Can't forget how good Amerson looked initially either. How about how many WR's this team has signed attempting to elevate them above what they did on other teams, only to have it fail miserably. The only safe bet with Fuller as of right *NOW* is that he is a fantastic slot corner. With that said, if you asked me if you'd trade a great slot corner for a QB who you believe is a no-doubt starting franchise QB for 3-5 seasons? I'd do the trade every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 On 2/10/2018 at 1:35 PM, BraveWarrior said: If Fuller was elite, why was he only playing nickel? Because it was only his second year. He took 2/3rds of our defensive snaps though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 @Darrell Green Fan Just for the record, I sure didn’t say McCoy was a 10-15 qb, lol. That would be idiotic. Wasn’t trying to imply the Eagles, and I shouldn’t have said it the way I did - meant teams can have successful seasons (in the grand scheme of things) with sub par qbing. My bad. I was actually thinking of guys like Dilfer, Bortles, Flacco, Manning, etc. If Todd Collins could get us to the playoffs, I believe Colt could to. Sure wouldn’t bet on it of course. Thing is, and this is key, why do we have to be successful this next season? That’s a big part of my problem. If you’re going to let your franchise guy walk, why not focus on (continuing to) to build the team? Isn’t that what fans were clamoring for - build the team with the excess cap space? Seems to me we’re striving for mediocrity. You mentioned we’d have no hope in sight, I think there would because we’d beef up the D and run game, try to add a weapon or two, and likely draft a promising young qb. Add Richardson/Logan, a good back or receiver, and re-sign Brown and Murphy and we’d be in good shape heading into the draft. I wouldn’t be expecting a Super Bowl run, but I think we would be competitive with a fairly bright future. I’ve actually, (generally speaking) liked the team direction - the way we’ve gotten younger, not given up draft picks, used FA (to some extent), rewarded our own guys via extensions, hired some quality coaches, in-season additions, avoided higher priced, aging vets, etc. So I’m in perhaps a unique place where I doubt the FO (moreso since the Cousins debacle and this trade), but I have liked a good bit of what they’be done more recently. This trade, however, went against a few of those principles. And that’s the problem, not Alex Smith. If I were a Browns, Jets or Broncos fan, I’d be happy to trade a 2nd or whatever for Smith. For us, it just feels like we’re passing the buck...and trading a good young player on a cheap salary, a third rounder, and significant FA money for that pleasure. Who knows, maybe it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 8 hours ago, skinny21 said: @Darrell Green Fan Just for the record, I sure didn’t say McCoy was a 10-15 qb, lol. That would be idiotic. Wasn’t trying to imply the Eagles, and I shouldn’t have said it the way I did - meant teams can have successful seasons (in the grand scheme of things) with sub par qbing. My bad. I was actually thinking of guys like Dilfer, Bortles, Flacco, Manning, etc. If Todd Collins could get us to the playoffs, I believe Colt could to. Sure wouldn’t bet on it of course. Thing is, and this is key, why do we have to be successful this next season? That’s a big part of my problem. If you’re going to let your franchise guy walk, why not focus on (continuing to) to build the team? Isn’t that what fans were clamoring for - build the team with the excess cap space? Seems to me we’re striving for mediocrity. You mentioned we’d have no hope in sight, I think there would because we’d beef up the D and run game, try to add a weapon or two, and likely draft a promising young qb. Add Richardson/Logan, a good back or receiver, and re-sign Brown and Murphy and we’d be in good shape heading into the draft. I wouldn’t be expecting a Super Bowl run, but I think we would be competitive with a fairly bright future. I’ve actually, (generally speaking) liked the team direction - the way we’ve gotten younger, not given up draft picks, used FA (to some extent), rewarded our own guys via extensions, hired some quality coaches, in-season additions, avoided higher priced, aging vets, etc. So I’m in perhaps a unique place where I doubt the FO (moreso since the Cousins debacle and this trade), but I have liked a good bit of what they’be done more recently. This trade, however, went against a few of those principles. And that’s the problem, not Alex Smith. If I were a Browns, Jets or Broncos fan, I’d be happy to trade a 2nd or whatever for Smith. For us, it just feels like we’re passing the buck...and trading a good young player on a cheap salary, a third rounder, and significant FA money for that pleasure. Who knows, maybe it works out. Very good, well thought out post. I just disagree. Kirk was leaving, that became obvious and I was the last idiot to finally understand this. So the options were simple: 1. Pay what it takes to get a similar QB, which is very very difficult to find as we know all too well here. 2. Go into the season without a legit QB. Now this is the option we have seen for the better part of 20 years and we know how that worked out. Unless you have the 2000 Baltimore defense, and we will never have that, you simply can not compete let alone win a title without a QB. A handful of examples of teams with amazing rosters does not change that. And this management will never, ever, never build a roster like that Denver or Baltimore team. So that leave them either paying what it takes to get a guy who will allow us to compete for the next 4-6 years or we go back to the wasteland of 4-12 with no QB and absolutely no hope for the future. I'll take Door #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I am sure the defensive backs coach was not happy about losing Fuller. Fuller will end up having a good career and the Skins will regret the day they let him go. Just like giving up Champ Bailey to Denver for Clinton Portis. I am happy for Fuller because ex-Redskins usually do well- like Mark Schlereth-who went to Denver and got a Super Bowl ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said: I am sure the defensive backs coach was not happy about losing Fuller. Fuller will end up having a good career and the Skins will regret the day they let him go. Just like giving up Champ Bailey to Denver for Clinton Portis. I am happy for Fuller because ex-Redskins usually do well- like Mark Schlereth-who went to Denver and got a Super Bowl ring. Yeah, I gotta imagine Gray was pretty ticked off. Wouldn’t even be surprised if Fuller was a part of the reason he took the job, lol. I’m going to be ticked off if we go right back to lacking a legit slot corner, so I’m really hoping Moreau lives up to his potential and/or Holsey flashes in a big way. I was thrilled with how Fuller essentially took the wr screens and slants to the slot receiver off the table for offensive coordinators. Taking away those high percentage passes was a bit of a game changer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveWarrior Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/11/2018 at 8:02 PM, Tsailand said: Because it was only his second year. He took 2/3rds of our defensive snaps though. If you're really elite, the coaches get you out on the field, regardless of what year you're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, BraveWarrior said: If you're really elite, the coaches get you out on the field, regardless of what year you're in. At a position he hasn’t really practiced or played in (in this D)? Can’t buy that argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfsire Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 We needed a QB, because Cousins is no True redskin. And I look forward to seeing him fail. I want our team to ask him if he likes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveWarrior Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:47 PM, skinny21 said: At a position he hasn’t really practiced or played in (in this D)? Can’t buy that argument. A CB is a CB is a CB... if you're elite you should be able to adapt. BTW - I'm not really that concrete in my thinking. Playing Devil's advocate to a certain degree. But the point is that people use terms like elite and superstar much too liberally in sports these days. Fuller, while an up and coming talent with a lot of potential, is in no way elite at this point in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Some people in this thread don’t understand the value of a really good cheap nickel corner was fuller elite??? Yes he was according to his play this year quite frankly put he was the best at his position, quit thinking that only elite players play on the outside it’s simply not the case, we had a good piece to a puzzle and simply threw it away did we need a qb? YES...is Alex smith good? MAYBE has trading for a qb over 34 ever worked for this team? NO. I woulda rather signed a free agent nobody here can honestly argue Alex Smith was the best available option that included losing Kendall Fuller and a draft pick to sign him..Alex Smith is average to good just face reality...Bruce Allen is all in on this trade if they don’t succeed this whole thing is getting blown up imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, BraveWarrior said: A CB is a CB is a CB... if you're elite you should be able to adapt. BTW - I'm not really that concrete in my thinking. Playing Devil's advocate to a certain degree. But the point is that people use terms like elite and superstar much too liberally in sports these days. Fuller, while an up and coming talent with a lot of potential, is in no way elite at this point in his career. I understand your overall point, just didn’t at all agree with your prior post. A coach would have to be an idiot to say, hey, this guy’s playing at a really high level, we should switch his position (mid season)... unless they had no other reasonable options at the new position, which we obviously did. Fuller had an elite year as a slot corner. Needle couldn’t be any higher. Sure, a slot corner (if that’s all he is, which is a big assumption of course) has less value than a boundary corner, but they’re still damn important. Anyway, it’s fine to call the sample size too small. I would say he has no weaknesses as a slot corner, and so should maintain a high level of play in KC. Can’t say the same about playing outside, though I’d guess he’d be quite good there. Still think it was a boneheaded move. He’s one of a very small group of guys I would have considered untradeable - Allen, Ioannidas, Scherff and Williams being the others. By untradeable, I mean in this scenario... everyone has a price of course. I would have expected picks back if any of those guys were on the block for Smith. Chiefs had a ton of leverage, and it felt like our response was, “we’ll give you whatever it takes to outbid Cleveland”... like walking away was simply not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Redskins traded him to a team known for having above average defenses so naturally he'll be replacing Peters as the AFC Pro Bowler next year. It is almost guaranteed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir L Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 were not missing him and he isnt doing too well on the outside guy is a slot cb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vladimir L said: were not missing him and he isnt doing too well on the outside guy is a slot cb I read last week that he was the only player on the entire defense that did his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 You trade a slot CB for a quality starting QB every time. Letting Cousins walk netted Skins a 3rd round compensation pick so they get back essentially the pick they traded to KC. In retrospect, you make that trade any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 So how is Fuller doing in KC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 I dont know how he's doing specifically, but that KC secondary has been getting torched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 Take it for whatever it's worth... Kendall Fuller: Quinton Dunbar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.