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CRobi21

Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

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37 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Tell me this is part of a troll job and save face. 

 

It's easier than @ing you lol. 

 

37 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I've never heard  Cousins say how good he is or even imply it.

 

He has definitly mad mention of how much better he has gotten but that's not really my argument or a hill I'm trying to die on. 

 

37 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

With that out of the way

 

Yes please

 

37 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 plenty of teams would trade for him.  Only the Redskins squandered all that by making the move for Smith, among other things.

 

I don't think they really squandered it to be honest. Think about it this way. You are Denver and you have a choice of trading for Kirk or playing those 3 horrible QBs again just to prove a point. What would you do? I actually think we are in a position is strength, though it does come with risks. If I'm wrong we are ****ed two ways from Sunday. 

 

And (remember I said this. Mark it down. Take a picture. Call a priest) Kirk is too good to let walk for nothing. And he's more the  good enough for them to make the trade. You would do it for Rodgers right now and he's in the category. 

 

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14 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Pointless, because you will simply counter with the report(s) you choose to believe. Lets see how it plays out and if Cousins does indeed just walk for free.  

Right, but I'm not in here using either side of those reports to prove my point.

 

Edit: Not sure why you're confused.  I'm simply saying that you are making a point based off of an unconfirmed report that's been disputed.  As for which report is correct, who knows.  But neither is conclusive so it really shouldn't factor in to any strategy.

 

 

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C'mon, lets stop with the tag Cousins idea.

 

1. The Redskins FO screwed up big time by not signing him years ago.

2. Cousins and his agent played a game of 'Let's try to break Snyder's pocketbook.

3. Personally, he's not worth top 5 money; not for someone who choked TWICE against the Giants and who is 0-4 against Dak Prescott.

 

 Just leave it be. Let him go. Let the FO lick their wounds and move on.

 Knowing Bruce Allen, he will screw it up even more than it is now. No sense in tying up the entire salary cap for payback. If it CAN backfire, IT WILL.

 

 Just stop.

 Move on.

 Cut bait. cut line.

 Work on the future.

 

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1 minute ago, skins island connection said:

C'mon, lets stop with the tag Cousins idea.

 

1. The Redskins FO screwed up big time by not signing him years ago.

2. Cousins and his agent played a game of 'Let's try to break Snyder's pocketbook.

3. Personally, he's not worth top 5 money; not for someone who choked TWICE against the Giants and who is 0-4 against Dak Prescott.

 

 Just leave it be. Let him go. Let the FO lick their wounds and move on.

 Knowing Bruce Allen, he will screw it up even more than it is now. No sense in tying up the entire salary cap for payback. If it CAN backfire, IT WILL.

 

 Just stop.

 Move on.

 Cut bait. cut line.

 Work on the future.

 

 

So we can't talk about trade possibilities in this thread (just for the hell of it) and also talk about the future in others? 

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Looking at Smith from a pure statistical stance how many of these seasons would be acceptable: 

 

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
2005 21 SFO qb 11 9 7 2-5-0 84 165 50.9 875 1 0.6 11 6.7 47 5.3 2.4 10.4 97.2 40.8   29 185 3.56 1.11 14.9 1 2 -3
2006 22 SFO QB 11 16 16 7-9-0 257 442 58.1 2890 16 3.6 16 3.6 75 6.5 5.6 11.2 180.6 74.8 46.4 35 202 5.64 4.80 7.3 1 2 10
2007 23 SFO qb 11 7 7 2-5-0 94 193 48.7 914 2 1.0 4 2.1 45 4.7 4.0 9.7 130.6 57.2 19.5 17 121 3.78 3.11 8.1 2 2 0
2009 25 SFO QB 11 11 10 5-5-0 225 372 60.5 2350 18 4.8 12 3.2 73 6.3 5.8 10.4 213.6 81.5 45.0 22 134 5.62 5.17 5.6     7
2010 26 SFO QB 11 11 10 3-7-0 204 342 59.6 2370 14 4.1 10 2.9 62 6.9 6.4 11.6 215.5 82.1 46.2 25 140 6.08 5.61 6.8     6
2011 27 SFO QB 11 16 16 13-3-0 273 445 61.3 3144 17 3.8 5 1.1 56 7.1 7.3 11.5 196.5 90.7 57.2 44 263 5.89 6.13 9.0 6 6 13
2012 28 SFO QB 11 10 9 6-2-1 153 218 70.2 1737 13 6.0 5 2.3 55 8.0 8.1 11.4 173.7 104.1 67.3 24 137 6.61 6.76 9.9     7
2013* 29 KAN QB 11 15 15 11-4-0 308 508 60.6 3313 23 4.5 7 1.4 71 6.5 6.8 10.8 220.9 89.1 48.1 39 210 5.67 5.94 7.1 1 1 14
2014 30 KAN QB 11 15 15 8-7-0 303 464 65.3 3265 18 3.9 6 1.3 70 7.0 7.2 10.8 217.7 93.4 56.8 45 229 5.96 6.14 8.8 3 3 13
2015 31 KAN QB 11 16 16 11-5-0 307 470 65.3 3486 20 4.3 7 1.5 80 7.4 7.6 11.4 217.9 95.4 64.1 45 235 6.31 6.48 8.7 1 1 16
2016* 32 KAN QB 11 15 15 11-4-0 328 489 67.1 3502 15 3.1 8 1.6 80 7.2 7.0 10.7 233.5 91.2 66.1 28 140 6.50 6.39 5.4 3 3 12
2017* 33 KAN QB 11 15 15 9-6-0 341 505 67.5 4042 26 5.1 5 1.0 79 8.0 8.6 11.9 269.5 104.7 63.4 35 207 7.10 7.65 6.5 1 3 17

 

Now, just to compare here's Cousins stats: 

 

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
2012 24 WAS qb 12 3 1 1-0-0 33 48 68.8 466 4 8.3 3 6.3 77 9.7 8.6 14.1 155.3 101.6 79.0 3 27 8.61 7.53 5.9 1 1 2
2013 25 WAS qb 12 5 3 0-3-0 81 155 52.3 854 4 2.6 7 4.5 62 5.5 4.0 10.5 170.8 58.4 38.8 5 32 5.14 3.67 3.1     -2
2014 26 WAS qb 8 6 5 1-4-0 126 204 61.8 1710 10 4.9 9 4.4 81 8.4 7.4 13.6 285.0 86.4 55.8 8 70 7.74 6.77 3.8     4
2015 27 WAS QB 8 16 16 9-7-0 379 543 69.8 4166 29 5.3 11 2.0 78 7.7 7.8 11.0 260.4 101.6 71.0 26 186 6.99 7.14 4.6 2 3 12
2016* 28 WAS QB 8 16 16 8-7-1 406 606 67.0 4917 25 4.1 12 2.0 80 8.1 8.0 12.1 307.3 97.2 71.7 23 190 7.52 7.45 3.7 4 4 15
2017 29 WAS QB 8 16 16 7-9-0 347 540 64.3 4093 27 5.0 13 2.4 74 7.6 7.5 11.8 255.8 93.9 50.0 41 342 6.46 6.38 7.1 1 4 12

 

Many will focus on the QB record, but that's bogus. QBs are important, but they don't have that much control of a game where they single-handedly win games. 

 

For yards passing this was Alex' first season with more than 4000. It was also his first time with over 25 TDs passing. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I don't think they really squandered it to be honest. Think about it this way. You are Denver and you have a choice of trading for Kirk or playing those 3 horrible QBs again just to prove a point. What would you do? I actually think we are in a position is strength, though it does come with risks. If I'm wrong we are ****ed two ways from Sunday. 

 

And (remember I said this. Mark it down. Take a picture. Call a priest) Kirk is too good to let walk for nothing. And he's more the  good enough for them to make the trade. You would do it for Rodgers right now and he's in the category. 

 

 

If he wants to go to Denver, why would he want them to give up draft capital to get him?

 

If he doesn't know for sure he wants to go to Denver or any team for that matter, why wouldn't he tell everyone involved that he's not signing a LTD and  that he will be a one year rental?

 

So why would any team give up picks and pay a big percentage of the salary cap for that?

 

The risk is much greater for the Redskins risking 50M of their cap on quarterbacks, with 34M of it on a guy they didn't want.

 

 

 

 

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Tough to make that statistical comparison when a lot of the stats are a product of system and team need.  Cousins has played without a running game for most of his career and with a porous defense that meant we needed to score points in bunches to win.  Smith had a strong running game in both San Fran and KC for the most part and so was asked to manage the game and not screw it up with turnovers etc.

 

If your defense typically keeps the opponents to below 17 points a game then it is fine to throw for 180 yards with 1 td and no picks.  I expect Smith to have his best statistical years of his career in Gruden's offence because it is QB friendly and because quite frankly unless we get a lot better in other phases of the game he is going to have to sling it more.

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To me yards passing is a useless number unless it coincides with a good TD to yards ratio. That was always one of my issues with Kirk...tons of yards but without the TDs to go along with them. To be fair, though, Alex Smith isn't exactly a TD machine either and his red zone stats are mediocre. To me he's basically Kirk with pluses and minuses. Minus: he's 33. Yeah that isn't super old or anything, especially for a QB, but he's still 4 years older than Kirk. Pluses: IMO he has better escapability and is better at off-schedule plays when a play breaks down than Kirk is. He is also less error prone...many less INTs and many many less fumbles. 

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27 minutes ago, RonBurgandy said:
 

 

The only thing i'm upset at is the fact we gave up Kendal Fuller to obtain Smith.  Cousins is going to flop like a soggy pancake next season with all the pressure he has to live up to. We all know how well he does with pressure. Alex Smith is going to be good enough (with a healthy defense) to get us our first Playoff win since 2005. 

What a great attitude. I would definitely buy you a beer. 

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3 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Tough to make that statistical comparison when a lot of the stats are a product of system and team need.  Cousins has played without a running game for most of his career and with a porous defense that meant we needed to score points in bunches to win.  Smith had a strong running game in both San Fran and KC for the most part and so was asked to manage the game and not screw it up with turnovers etc.

 

If your defense typically keeps the opponents to below 17 points a game then it is fine to throw for 180 yards with 1 td and no picks.  I expect Smith to have his best statistical years of his career in Gruden's offence because it is QB friendly and because quite frankly unless we get a lot better in other phases of the game he is going to have to sling it more.

 

I don't know if that's the case. An Andy Reid offense typically inflates the QB's numbers and has always be criticized for passing too much.

 

I'd also like to remind people of something that's fairly important. GMs and head coaches get fired pretty easily and they know the most important position on teh fiel is QB. Jim Harbaugh, someone that knows a thing or two about the QB position, chose Colin Kaepernick over Alex Smith. He saw them both in practice/game situations and elected to go with Kaep. Right now Andy Reid, who knows a thing or two about QBs has chosen Mahomes over Smith. I know player contracts factor into this, but at the end of the day each coach, whom has earned some respect in the NFL, thought moving on from Smith was best for the their respective teams. 

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19 hours ago, fwo40 said:

We're holding Cowherd up now as some type of football authority?  Jesus ****ing christ.

Not sure about the "trying to prove everybody wrong" bit. But he makes absolute sense about the $30 mil/yr!! I realize the salary cap will go up in the years to come and Kirk will only be the highest paid QB for a season (or two, who knows). But a 2nd or (3rd) tier team (like us) with a tier 2 QB that takes up more than 14% of the salary space makes is difficult to afford anything less than "role" players on the rest of the squad moving forward. As a matter of fact, Denver (according to scout.com) is looking down the barrel of a rebuild because of their salary cap issues. Now I'm sure Kirk is the kinda guy that looks at that kinda stuff.

 

But Cowherd is not too far off when you consider that Kirk has not won many big games (let alone a playoff game). So let us not be delusional here.

Look....we were starving for a QB and we got a good semblance of one in Kirk. But make no mistake, again, $30 mil/yr is just too much to spend on one player if you're trying to build a perennial contender.

 

BTW, Cowherd is also fairly right to compare Kirk to Case Keenum and Teddy Bridgewater. In my opinion a reasonable GM would be hard pressed not to consider picking those guys up on the cheap over paying a premium for a comparable QB in Kirk. All three are simply tier two QBs!!! The difference is only timing and maybe a little bit of hype.

 

I'm so interested to see where Kirk goes. It will really tell the true story behind him saying he wants to be on a team that will contend. He also says he's going to wait on God before he makes a decision where to go. He also says that he owes it to the other QBs not to hurt future contracts. So there's a bit of contradiction there, but whatever. 

.

Lots of moving parts. But who knows, maybe he ends up in Minnesota. Apparently, they've got over $60 in cap space going into next year!!! Now that would be ideal for Kirk! But again, is Kirk really millions of dollars better than Case or Teddy?

 

https://scout.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Denver-Broncos-2018-Salary-Cap-Understanding-Whats-Coming-110242359

 

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1 minute ago, RonBurgandy said:

RomBurgandy pic

 

Well, it's all about relative cost. People accept the Alex Smith move because they feel he'll cost less than Cousins. That's fair, but in your pick almost all of those guys will sing for less than the rumored Smith extension, so it's not that simple. 

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27 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

And if <insert anything here>...

 

I feel you've been around long enough to expect the worst and hope for the best.

I've also been around long enough not to let these things affect me too much. Nothing I can do about it, and ****ing and moaning is too much stress for an old fart.

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16 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

Just had a terrible thought. Kirk goes to the Giants.

Nah, the new GM there has already said Eli is still the guy there.

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7 hours ago, fwo40 said:

Feinstein and Cowherd the greatest football minds of our generation lining up behind this move.   Fantastic.  All we need now is Steven A Smith.

 

Steven A says we'd be better off with Cousins... then points out it doesn't make much difference.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

Not sure about the "trying to prove everybody wrong" bit. But he makes absolute sense about the $30 mil/yr!! I realize the salary cap will go up in the years to come and Kirk will only be the highest paid QB for a season (or two, who knows). But a 2nd or (3rd) tier team (like us) with a tier 2 QB that takes up more than 14% of the salary space makes is difficult to afford anything less than "role" players on the rest of the squad moving forward. As a matter of fact, Denver (according to scout.com) is looking down the barrel of a rebuild because of their salary cap issues. Now I'm sure Kirk is the kinda guy that looks at that kinda stuff.

 

But Cowherd is not too far off when you consider that Kirk has not won many big games (let alone a playoff game). So let us not be delusional here.

Look....we were starving for a QB and we got a good semblance of one in Kirk. But make no mistake, again, $30 mil/yr is just too much to spend on one player if you're trying to build a perennial contender.

 

https://scout.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Denver-Broncos-2018-Salary-Cap-Understanding-Whats-Coming-110242359

 

For the record I was fine with losing Kirk - it's the "not starting over lateral move" to Smith while having to pay a price of a talented player to do it that I'm against.

 

All that aside.  **** Cowherd.  A broken clock can be right twice a day let's not hold this guy up to be some intelligent football mind.  Which I believe was the gist behind the original poster's intent.

9 minutes ago, BleedBNG said:

 

Steven A says we'd be better off with Cousins... then points out it doesn't make much difference.

 

 

I actually agree with this: lateral move and we'll find a way to waste the savings on some other stupid idea.

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After a few days to marinate on this trade and listening to voices of reason all over sports radio and Twitter, I am now okay with this trade and Alex Smith as our QB.

 

I still would much rather have Kirk and am completely baffled (well not really) that the FO hasn't had contact with Cousins camp since November, but at this point it's a done deal.

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Harbaugh moving from Smith to Kaep had more to do with Smith being an inherited player and Kaep being his guy.  I would say history proves Harbaugh got that one wrong and although it is besides the point Harbaugh is also an egotistical jerk.

 

Reid does have a fairly QB friendly system of his own that is true but I do think Jay's system is even more so and again the supporting cast was better in Kansas and so Smith was not being asked to air it out half as much as Cousins, just compare the respective number of attempts and you will see Kirk was throwing a lot more frequently and so inevitably has higher totals.  The completion percentages and yards per attempt which are a better comparative tool are around about the same.

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

If he wants to go to Denver, why would he want them to give up draft capital to get him?

 

If he doesn't know for sure he wants to go to Denver or any team for that matter, why wouldn't he tell everyone involved that he's not signing a LTD and  that he will be a one year rental?

 

So why would any team give up picks and pay a big percentage of the salary cap for that?

 

The risk is much greater for the Redskins risking 50M of their cap on quarterbacks, with 34M of it on a guy they didn't want.

 

 

 

 

 

I can give you it's a great risk. But these teams, Denver in particular who can win the Superbowl this weekend if they had Him, ain't gonna wait years to get him. We have his rights. That is leverage. 

 

It's really not about what he wants. 

 

And I think we have proven he doesn't care much about the team. If he did we would probably not be in this situation. His goal is to het paid and, now that he's basically not a Redskin, there is nothing wrong with that. 

 

He has shown, multiple times, that he and God love one year deals. He will sign one if it's offered. Especially if it's fully guaranteed. You know that. 

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18 minutes ago, purbeast said:

After a few days to marinate on this trade and listening to voices of reason all over sports radio and Twitter, I am now okay with this trade and Alex Smith as our QB.

 

I still would much rather have Kirk and am completely baffled (well not really) that the FO hasn't had contact with Cousins camp since November, but at this point it's a done deal.

 

I've never been of the belief that Smith sucks.  My issue is this entire is the entire deal should be unnecessary.  I don't like giving folks kudos for "making the best" out of an awful situation they created.  Sure, it's the best they can ask for in the short term that will at its best be good enough to keep the FO employed.  But solid FO's don't find themselves in these situations.  There were so many other ways this could have been handled up to this point where the Redskins are a better team because of it.  I don't feel like we're a better team because of this.  They simply averted catastrophe.

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