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Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

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6 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the way the transition tag works.  If he gets an offer and we don't match we don't get 2 first round picks, we get nada, zip, nothing.

 

The 2 first rounders is the price for trading a player on the tag.  Transition guarantees you the right to match and nothing else, decline to match and it's all over.

That's why it's a no-risk low risk solution. It's the only way we can get something out of this. He wants to go to Denver then great, time to see what we can squeeze out of them. He wants to go to Jets/Browns for the $$$ - OK fine, he would have done it in FA anyway but at least we tried.

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No guarantee it is Denver and no guarantee we can match even if it is depending on how they structure.  We have a probable 3rd round pick as comp right now and the transition tag means we probably get nothing.

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1 minute ago, UKskins said:

That's why it's a no-risk solution. It's the only way we can get something out of this. He wants to go to Denver then great, time to see what we can squeeze out of them. He wants to go to Jets/Browns for the $$$ - OK fine, he would have done it in FA anyway but at least we tried.

the risk is still there though.. if he drags his feet out of spite before accepting an offer?  We could be missing out on some major pieces in free agency... much smaller risk, but still a risk non the less. 

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Just now, WelshSkinsFan said:

No guarantee it is Denver and no guarantee we can match even if it is depending on how they structure.  We have a probable 3rd round pick as comp right now and the transition tag means we probably get nothing.

True - but it is a basically a 4th anyway. 

 

It's a gamble, I guess it depends what the whispers the FO are hearing about what Cousins wants to do.

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At the very least we could make life absolutely miserable for Kirk and he for us as both sides might have leverage, assuming he wants to go to Denver and not land in Cleveland or with the Jets. If he signed the tag he could make our lives miserable by saying he isn't going to go look for offers and will play on the one year transition tag which would deplete our cap space. On the other hand we could make his life miserable via a couple different avenues...we could suck up the cap hit and just force him to be essentially out of football for an entire year which would definitely **** up his market value for 2019, or we could match a likely backloaded Denver deal, own him, then turn around and trade him off to a team he doesn't want to go to.

 

The easiest thing in any circumstance there is for both sides to work together and everyone comes away happy. Us with a new player or a pick for him and him with a new team he really wants to play for.

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Just now, OVCChairman said:

the risk is still there though.. if he drags his feet out of spite before accepting an offer?  We could be missing out on some major pieces in free agency.  

Possible - that was the bit of risk I had forgotten.

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So we can make him miserable, he can make us miserable.  We take a risk, he takes a risk.  Sorry but after 3 years of this let's try and not be so Redskins about this and actually behave with a bit of class for once.

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1 minute ago, mistertim said:

At the very least we could make life absolutely miserable for Kirk and he for us as both sides might have leverage, assuming he wants to go to Denver and not land in Cleveland or with the Jets. If he signed the tag he could make our lives miserable by saying he isn't going to go look for offers and will play on the one year transition tag which would deplete our cap space. On the other hand we could make his life miserable via a couple different avenues...we could suck up the cap hit and just force him to be essentially out of football for an entire year which would definitely **** up his market value for 2019, or would could match a likely backloaded Denver deal, own him, then turn around and trade him off to a team he doesn't want to go to.

 

Kirk could make the Redskins much more miserable than the Redskins could ever make him.  Tagging Kirk and him signing it forcing the team to eat up over 50M in cap space for the 2018 season would be absolutely catastrophic.  I don't have a lot of respect for Bruce, but I don't think he's dumb enough to take that gamble, rendering all this hub bub about getting anything of value for Kirk at this point useless.  The ship has sailed.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

the risk is still there though.. if he drags his feet out of spite before accepting an offer?  We could be missing out on some major pieces in free agency... much smaller risk, but still a risk non the less. 

 

This is actually a big risk.  The reason the team has so much cap room is that it has 20+ players from last season who are now free agents.  Not only would the Skins be hampered in pursuing free agents from other teams, they'd be hampered from signing their own players.

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1 minute ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

So we can make him miserable, he can make us miserable.  We take a risk, he takes a risk.  Sorry but after 3 years of this let's try and not be so Redskins about this and actually behave with a bit of class for once.

 

We aren't the only ones who have played hardball here though. After last season Kirk and his agent wouldn't even come to the table after the tag was applied. After this season Kirk and his agent basically said he wouldn't even talk to them until March. 

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I think we'll get 3 very good years and the best part of 12,000 yards out of him, and the trade value and contract which will have paid in the region of 65mil cash over those 3 years will prove great value.

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The Browns offered a 2nd rounder for Smith (they have two in the upcoming draft). When the Chiefs asked for more, the Browns said thanks for your time, conversation over. That new front office is already light years more competent than ours. They know how, when, whether, and who to deal.

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1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Kirk could make the Redskins much more miserable than the Redskins could ever make him.  Tagging Kirk and him signing it forcing the team to eat up over 50M in cap space for the 2018 season would be absolutely catastrophic.  I don't have a lot of respect for Bruce, but I don't think he's dumb enough to take that gamble, rendering all this hub bub about getting anything of value for Kirk at this point useless.  The ship has sailed.

 

 

 

So you think Kirk would take the risk of being completely out of football for over a year, with the resulting hit that would undoubtedly cause to his market value, just to make us miserable?

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1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

We aren't the only ones who have played hardball here though. After last season Kirk and his agent wouldn't even come to the table after the tag was applied. After this season Kirk and his agent basically said he wouldn't even talk to them until March. 

God forbid anyone ever give them a taste of their own medicine.

Just now, mistertim said:

 

So you think Kirk would take the risk of being completely out of football for over a year, with the resulting hit that would undoubtedly cause to his market value, just to make us miserable?

How would he be out of football?  He'd be sitting the bench behind Smith.  Smith could get hurt, he could play.  In fact, he'd just be a year older with less wear and tear for an already extremely durable QB.

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Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

God forbid anyone ever give them a taste of their own medicine.

 

I don't care one way or the other. Just saying it isn't like one side is completely angelic and magnanimous and the other is satan incarnate. Both sides are looking out for themselves first and foremost. As far as a "taste of their own medicine" that basically just sounds petty and immature. I don't really think Kirk is that way. It was a business decision. 

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20 minutes ago, UKskins said:

A) The transition tag DOES NOT have 2 first rounders attached to it. That's the non-exclusive franchise tag.

 

B ) Two first round picks doesn't have to be the price on a non-exc franchise tag anyway.- we could agree to take a lesser sum, but it's what we're entitled to if we refused to negotiate down - that would be resolved.

 

 

*"Bada-Bing! Bada-Boom!" ??

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If it goes wrong all our other free agents walk and we are hamstrung throughout the offseason because we have no cap room.  This is not how adults make decisions, it is how Bruce sometimes makes decisions but please just no.

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Those that are saying low risk are totally missing the point that Kirk doesnt HAVE to sign with another team. We apply the transition tag, he doesnt like any of the offers hes getting, he does nothing and the skins are screwed. (BTW - not even in spite. KC knows how Washington works right now. He doesn't sign with anyone, stays on the skins, he knows he is only 1 bad Alex Smith game away from being the starter again.   

Look - We screwed up with kirk.  We paid a ton for 2 years under the tag, missed playoffs both years, and never got the LTD.  So you know what you do when you find yourself in a hole???

STOP DIGGING!

 

 

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The whole tag and trade thing only works if our front office has a verbal agreement with the Broncos first that they will offer us something in exchange for us  tagging Kirk and then trading him to Denver. Hard part is that Cousins side would also need to play along

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18 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

How would he be out of football?  He'd be sitting the bench behind Smith.  Smith could get hurt, he could play.  In fact, he'd just be a year older with less wear and tear for an already extremely durable QB.

 

Because he wouldn't be playing (unless Smith got hurt...but they might just go with Colt then if they wanted). No way an NFL player...especially a QB...could go an entire year without taking a single live snap and not have it affect their play or at the very least raise questions about how good they will be or how long it will take to knock off the rust. I have some doubts as it is about a team being willing to give him the kind of record breaking contract he apparently wants, but after an entire year of zero play? That would be an absolutely insane risk to take on a player. We aren't talking about a sure-fire 1st ballot fugure HOFer here where the price would still be worth the risk even if he had been out of football for a year. Not taking a single real snap for a year would definitely hurt Kirk's market value. We also have no clue what other QBs might be available next offseason and who might be in play. If they didn't get Kirk this year the Browns and Jets are both likely to go QB with their top picks. 

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3 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

 are totally missing the point that Kirk doesnt HAVE to sign with another team. 

 

Of course he does. Denver aren't waiting a year for him. Neither is anyone else. Plus he's been telling the world it's not about money, but winning in the correct environment.

 

He's not staying here every being humiliated backing up Smith. He's taking a deal off someone. And he won't want a number of offers under the tag, he will want a specific offer from his predetermined team of choice. 

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18 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

So we can make him miserable, he can make us miserable.  We take a risk, he takes a risk.  Sorry but after 3 years of this let's try and not be so Redskins about this and actually behave with a bit of class for once.

No, behave like the patriots. Business 

 

if a team betters ER the transition tag, we should match and turn around and trade to said team. 

 

Worse case scenerio, you lose a pick in the 100's in 2019 (no guarantee depending on our own actions) 

 

but, given the value of KC. Any team would give a 2nd with a LTD on a match scenario. A 2nd IN 2018!!!

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1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Because he wouldn't be playing (unless Smith got hurt...but they might just go with Colt then if wanted). No way an NFL player...especially a QB...could go an entire year without taking a single live snap and not have it affect their play or at the very least raise questions about how good they will be or how long it will take to knock off the rust. I have some doubts as it is about a team being willing to give him the kind of record breaking contract he apparently wants as it is, but after an entire year of zero play? That would be an absolutely insane risk to take on a player. We aren't talking about a sure-fire 1st ballot fugure HOFer here where the price would still be worth the risk even if he had been out of football for a year. Not taking a single real snap for a year would definitely hurt Kirk's market value. We also have no clue what other QBs might be available next offseason and who might be in play. If they didn't get Kirk this year the Browns and Jets are both likely to go QB with their top picks. 

 

But in this situation where we pay him a minimum of $28 million how are we not screwing ourselves a 100 times more than we are screwing him? 

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5 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

The whole tag and trade thing only works if our front office has a verbal agreement with the Broncos first that they will offer us something in exchange for us  tagging Kirk and then trading him to Denver. Hard part is that Cousins side would also need to play along

No Coysins side doesn't have to play along. They go to Denver and after that it's between Denver and KC.

 

Team KC can't block this transaction.

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