TMK9973 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, mistertim said: At the risk of not taking a single snap for over a year? You honestly think that when given this choice between these: 1) Sign the tag and get traded to his likely dream team in Denver an get a very nice, but not insane contract there. 2) Sign the tag and then go out and get a potentially enormous contract from the Browns or the Jets (though I've seen reports that the Jets may be interested but are wary of his asking price) and go to a perennial bottom feeder that is extremely unlikely to sniff the Super Bowl any time soon. 3) Sign the tag and don't go out and look for deals out of spite and literally take zero snaps for an entire year. Come the 2019 season he'd then be a 31 year old QB who hadn't played a single down of NFL football in over a year. Absolutely no way that won't affect his market price...possibly drastically. You think that he'd actually choose #2 or #3 over the first option? Kirk isn't stupid and neither is his agent. I think he would sign the tag and listen to other offers, and if hears one he likes, he would take it. Otherwise -he would take the risk that he is going to get paid 28m, and take a chance on the year. You are talking about a guy who after having the best season he ever had, took the skins to the playoffs, RISKED injury or going backwards to not sign a LTD. THEN - when he followed that year with a even better year (For him) he took the risk AGAIN that he would not have a drop off, not get injured, and didnt even bother to counter the Redskins offer because he would risk it. So if you are asking me if he would, for the 3rd straight year, take a chance that by the end of the year he will either have been the highest paid Backup QB ever, or that Alex smith will struggle and he will come in and do even better - then yes... I think Kirk Cousins has shown he is willing to bet on himself and doesnt get scared by bluffs.... MEANWHILE - the Redskins will be on the hook for 45m in salary cap for 2 QB's. Do you really think that is a Risk the Redskins are going to take??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, Bonez3 said: Why are people under the impression he can 'choose not to accept trade'. It's a transition tag. the risk is on the team accepting Cousins, that he won't sign LTD. Which simply won't happen with a team interested in a trade. Even in Keim's piece all he can say is the Redskins biggest risk is he'd be under contract until a trade occurred. A trade would occur in about 48 hours So now you are talking transition? In that case he doesn't sign, gets the FA deal he would have gotten anyway and we cannot match so don't even get a compensatory pick. The transition tag at this point is about as much use to us as a chocolate fireguard, the only way we retain any control is the exclusive tag and then we are in all probability stuck with $34 million on the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: "$71 million of Smith's contract will be guaranteed for injury only" That sounds like its all injury based, I took that right from the NFL.com article. That would be hard to believe if true. Only Smith and the Redskins know the details. Anyone applauding or acting upset over the numbers have little basis to form an opinion. The initial headlines on the numbers usually put the contract in the best possible light because it makes the player's agent look good. **Tannehill is a good example. His extension was initially reported as $94M with $45M guaranteed. In reality, it was $77M in new money. A little over $11M on the extension was fully guaranteed and they guaranteed the money he was already due to receive under his current contract. The rest was guaranteed for injury. The headlines mean nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bonez3 said: Why are people under the impression he can 'choose not to accept trade'. It's a transition tag. the risk is on the team accepting Cousins, that he won't sign LTD. Which simply won't happen with a team interested in a trade. Even in Keim's piece all he can say is the Redskins biggest risk is he'd be under contract until a trade occurred. A trade would occur in about 48 hours so you think there is a team out there that would trade for him for 1 year at 28m knowing that they can not tag him in the off-season and he would probably want to test FA?? What team do you think would take that deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, TMK9973 said: I think he would sign the tag and listen to other offers, and if hears one he likes, he would take it. Otherwise -he would take the risk that he is going to get paid 28m, and take a chance on the year. Quote The player is allowed to negotiate with other teams but the current team has the ability to match any offer or it will receive two first-round draft picks as compensation. That compensation is such that it is very rare for non-exclusive franchise tag players to actually change teams this way This essentially eliminates anybody from making an offer. They'd risk letting him hit free agency, instead of giving up 2 first rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: any time the agent and / or media wants to inflate the value of the deal. How many times do you hear "4 year, $94 million contract" but then looking at it, the incentive requirements are impossible to attain. They have a $200,000 bonus each year for being super bowl mvp, and they get $1,000,000 if they complete 90% of their passes in games during a full moon on thursday nights while wearing red. Let's hope there isn't a check down bonus. Sorry, I had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky52Mc Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 26 minutes ago, Butz65 said: Keim laid out all of the reasons a sign-and-trade won't happen in this article: http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35524/will-the-redskins-trade-kirk-cousins-dont-hold-your-breath That's a really weak and drawn out argument made by him. That's one of the fastest and most poorly thought out articles I've read in while from espn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: So now you are talking transition? In that case he doesn't sign, gets the FA deal he would have gotten anyway and we cannot match so don't even get a compensatory pick. The transition tag at this point is about as much use to us as a chocolate fireguard, the only way we retain any control is the exclusive tag and then we are in all probability stuck with $34 million on the books. If he doesn't sign he can't play football... he'd have to sit Year out. Fat chance. Skins hold trump card here, they just need to demonstrate patience and play it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Bonez3 said: If he doesn't sign he can't play football... he'd have to sit Year out. Fat chance. Skins hold trump card here, they just need to demonstrate patience and play it right If another club offers a contract to a transitioned player, his original club has seven days to decide whether to match that offer or not. If the original club agrees to match, the player is forced to sign with the original club at the terms agreed to in the offer by the other club. If the original club declines to match, the player signs with the other team, and the original team is offered no compensation, as they would be if the player had received the franchise tag. We are not matching any deal, he signs with whoever he chooses and walks for no compensation because we cannot match. The transition tag is effectively Free Agency, the result will be the same except we lose the possibility of compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Speaking Transition Tag - Browns and Jets could frontload a deal - Denver can't. We couldn't match a frontloaded deal, but we could match whatever Denver offers - we have more space than them and to get an offer we couldn't match they'd have to dump some player assets. If Kirk wants to go to Denver then absolutely that is a leverage we can play out. The deal is a trade, or you don't go to Denver, we'll match them and trade you to the Browns on a deal that's $5million less per year than you would have got from them in FA. If Denver is his absolute destination then there's still lots of cards we can play. EDITED as didn't mean to quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rocky52Mc said: That's a really weak and drawn out argument made by him. That's one of the fastest and most poorly thought out articles I've read in while from espn. Maybe so, but bottom line, it's the current situation. The situation benefits the Redskins. Art of War... 'do what your enemy doesn't want'. The enemy doesn't want us tagging him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, bobandweave said: The Eagles head coach said he was pissed he had to play against Alex twice a season now. You can make of that what you will connecting the dots but it’s unusual to see a head coach say that about another teams player to me. Could be he believes beating Smith will be harder then beating Kirk. Alex does have his own fans for sure but again he left the 9ers and joined a 2 win team and took them to the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons. He isn’t a bad QB I recall Jason Pierre Paul emphatically relaying that he was so upset that he'd have to face RG3 twice a season. Von Miller believes Kirk is elite and will take them to the Super Bowl. All sorts of players and coaches say all types of things, not sure that any of it makes a hill of beans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: We are not matching any deal, he signs with whoever he chooses and walks for no compensation because we cannot match. The transition tag is effectively Free Agency, the result will be the same except we lose the possibility of compensation. Browns/Jets you're right, we can't match. Denver can't outbid us without doing themselves some serious damage in terms of players/cap. If Kirk wants to go to Denver then we can stop that with the Transition tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 We don't know that Denver is where he wants to go though and if we are wrong then we just screwed ourselves again. Lot of people think the Jets are the most likely landing spot and they are certainly making moves that look designed to entice Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, UKskins said: Browns and Jets could frontload a deal - Denver can't. We couldn't match a frontloaded deal, but we could match whatever Denver offers - we have more space than them and to get an offer we couldn't match they'd have to dump some player assets. If Kirk wants to go to Denver then absolutely that is a leverage we can play out. The deal is a trade, or you don't go to Denver, we'll match them and trade you to the Browns on a deal that's $5million less per year than you would have got from them in FA. If Denver is his absolute destination then there's still lots of cards we can play. my point is that nobody is even going to make an offer to Kirk on the transition tag as far as a contract goes, because if he accepted it, we would then receive 2 first round drat picks, and they wouldn't want to risk that... nobody is going to even entertain making an offer because we would accept it.. The ONLY option we have is to gamble that Denver would play ball, and that's still a risk because if we know it here on the board, the rest of the NFL including Denver knows we're desperate to leverage them... If they got the sense via back door channels that Kirk wanted to be there, and that we were holding him hostage, then they know he's willing to sign there next year anyway, and they find a stop gap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: This essentially eliminates anybody from making an offer. They'd risk letting him hit free agency, instead of giving up 2 first rounders. The transition tag and non-exclusive franchise tags are different things - I don't think anyone is talking about the Franchise tag (Exc or non-exc) - Transition tag is where there is some pressure points we can apply and it's no risk - he is chasing the $$$ then fine, he goes to Cleveland or Jets like regular FA. He is genuine about wanting to win then it's Vikings or Broncos. No idea if Vikes are even in play here with the Keenum situation as it is. If he is trying to get a ticket to Colorado then we can get something back for not matching the transition tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 48 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said: Pic edit Heart healthy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: We don't know that Denver is where he wants to go though and if we are wrong then we just screwed ourselves again. Lot of people think the Jets are the most likely landing spot and they are certainly making moves that look designed to entice Kirk. How does the transition tag screw us then? If we're wrong then he'll go to the Jets on an offer we haven't matched...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, UKskins said: The transition tag and non-exclusive franchise tags are different things - I don't think anyone is talking about the Franchise tag (Exc or non-exc) - Transition tag is where there is some pressure points we can apply and it's no risk - he is chasing the $$$ then fine, he goes to Cleveland or Jets like regular FA. He is genuine about wanting to win then it's Vikings or Broncos. No idea if Vikes are even in play here with the Keenum situation as it is. If he is trying to get a ticket to Colorado then we can get something back for not matching the transition tag. he's not going to sign any transition tag offers because nobody is going to make an offer. If someone makes an offer, he signs it, and we dont match.. then we're owed 2 first round picks... No GM in the league is giving up 2 first round picks for Kirk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: my point is that nobody is even going to make an offer to Kirk on the transition tag as far as a contract goes, because if he accepted it, we would then receive 2 first round drat picks, and they wouldn't want to risk that... nobody is going to even entertain making an offer because we would accept it.. A) The transition tag DOES NOT have 2 first rounders attached to it. That's the non-exclusive franchise tag. B ) Two first round picks doesn't have to be the price on a non-exc franchise tag anyway.- we could agree to take a lesser sum, but it's what we're entitled to if we refused to negotiate down - that would be resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Yeah 2 1sts is for the non-exclusive tag. We can't do that this year. It's exclusive or transition. I had't thought about the "trading him to the Browns" thing. So theoretically we could match Denver's offer, could we then turn around and trade him and his contract to the Browns for what is likely a rather lower offer than they were willing to make in FA? That would be a serious dick move on our part but hey, "business is business" I guess. 3 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: he's not going to sign any transition tag offers because nobody is going to make an offer. If someone makes an offer, he signs it, and we dont match.. then we're owed 2 first round picks... No GM in the league is giving up 2 first round picks for Kirk... No, we aren't owed anything. 2 1sts is non-exclusive tag. Transition tag the worst thing that happens is he walks and we get nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, UKskins said: A) The transition tag DOES NOT have 2 first rounders attached to it. That's the non-exclusive franchise tag. B ) Two first round picks doesn't have to be the price on a non-exc franchise tag anyway.- we could agree to take a lesser sum, but it's what we're entitled to if we refused to negotiate down - that would be resolved. craptastic, you're absolutely right.. i was mistaken, my bad dude. that WOULD cost us a 3rd round compensatory pick though.. much smaller loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, mistertim said: Yeah 2 1sts is for the non-exclusive tag. We can't do that this year. It's exclusive or transition. I had't thought about the "trading him to the Browns" thing. So theoretically we could match Denver's offer, could we then turn around and trade him and his contract to the Browns for what is likely a rather lower offer than they were willing to make in FA? That would be a serious dick move on our part but hey, "business is business" I guess. As far as I'm aware then yeah, we absolutely could - we'd pick up the contract on Denver's terms and then he's our player to do what we like with. That's why I still think we could get something out of this. Frankly, we'd be idiots if we didn't put the transition tag on him unless I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the way the transition tag works. If he gets an offer and we don't match we don't get 2 first round picks, we get nada, zip, nothing. The 2 first rounders is the price for trading a player on the tag. Transition guarantees you the right to match and nothing else, decline to match and it's all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, WelshSkinsFan said: I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the way the transition tag works. If he gets an offer and we don't match we don't get 2 first round picks, we get nada, zip, nothing. The 2 first rounders is the price for trading a player on the tag. Transition guarantees you the right to match and nothing else, decline to match and it's all over. i had my terms messed up, that was all my mistake. 3 minutes ago, mistertim said: Yeah 2 1sts is for the non-exclusive tag. We can't do that this year. It's exclusive or transition. I had't thought about the "trading him to the Browns" thing. So theoretically we could match Denver's offer, could we then turn around and trade him and his contract to the Browns for what is likely a rather lower offer than they were willing to make in FA? That would be a serious dick move on our part but hey, "business is business" I guess. No, we aren't owed anything. 2 1sts is non-exclusive tag. Transition tag the worst thing that happens is he walks and we get nothing. yeah you're right i had my terms mixed up, I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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