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Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

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2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Here's the thing.

 

We lost with Kirk Cousins. We can probably lose without him.

 

I think the move from Cousins to Smith is a slight stepdown - mainly due to age.

 

My problem with this entire situation is how badly it's been handled almost since the day he was drafted. I mean, we've signed his replacement and somehow, we are still handling Cousins badly.

 

It just represents everything wrong with this petty, dysfunctional organization.

 

At some point isn't someone going to notice that this organization has screwed with its former GM and former starting QB on their way out the door? Why would anyone ever want to willingly play or work here - aside from the obvious reasons of money and there aren't a lot of these jobs. Wouldn't it always be the "Well, I guess I need to work somewhere" choice.

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3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Yeah, asking every team interested to hold thirty million in reserve while he take his time to pick a team is kind of ridiculous. There's a reason the first week of free agency, and usually the first day of free agency, is the one where all the major contracts are announced.

 

Wanting teams to wait, refusing to negotiate at all with the team that drafted you... hints at a God complex. 

 

He'll lose plenty more credibility signing a tag here to ride the pine. Especially when its not about the money.....:nono:

 

I've no hard feelings for Cousins. But he wanted out, we've moved on, I like the Smith trade in these circumstances and I think we should try and get something back via trade for Cousins, however remote the chances are.

 

Kirk camp liked to say it's a 'business' when signing the tags. This is a business move too.

 

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I'll admit to some hard feelings. I don't like the fact that he refused to negotiate in 2017 and that he announced he would refuse to negotiate in 2018 (at least until after free agency started in March). My hard feelings are that of the jilted boyfriend. I'm not sure if the Redskins were done wrong, but I was done wrong.

 

Kirk Cousins done wronged every Redskins fan who ever screamed "You like that!"

 

(maybe serious. probably not. But maybe a little serious.)

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10 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Here's the thing.

 

We lost with Kirk Cousins. We can probably lose without him.

 

Sheehan the other day had a little fun with the logic -- he goes we should get rid of Trent Williams, too.  the dude is a loser -- pure and simple.  Kerrigan is a loser, too. On and on.

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If Cousins is such a prick with a god complex and all this other jazz, one would think there should be no bidding war at all for his services.  This is the QB position, not some safety that just has to play and be out of the public eye.

 

I'm going to venture a guess that his agent has good relationships with most every team not named the Redskins and that interested parties are more than aware of the nitty gritty that led to this sad sequence of events.  I don't think any teams are going to see him as the bad apple if they play their cards right and force the teams hand.  These other teams know they are dealing with and what they are trying to pull.

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20 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Has anyone been told what Kirk asked for?  Just because all the pundits say he is worth 30M and will get it doesn't mean Kirk ever asked for that.

 

I'm not sure we'll ever get an initial report, but I don't think he wanted to stay here. The point isn't really what he asked for, rather what the team would pay or the fans would want to see the team pay for a competent QB. I was simply disagreeing with your point that fans didn't want to see Cousins make $24M per season. I think most of us would have done that deal at any point after 2016. 

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

By summer 2017, his asking price was a bus ticket out of Washington, not any particular dollar amount.  If Cousins signs for 30M+, I'd agree that it's far exceeding. 

 

My take is there is no way the FO wins with any scenario with Kirk.

 

#1 they could have gotten him cheaper and they said no.

#2 in fact, they could have gotten him cheaper then than Alex Smith cost them now and they said no

#3 if they thought Kirk was out of here in 2018, they should have traded him in 2017

#4 the press release and Scot ouster in the same off season -- congratulations Bruce Allen now the dude is a league wide laughing stock right there with Vinny.  This team again looks like a joke.  Heck I saw the Redskins two weeks ago mentioned on CNBC as a metaphor for a poorly run company.  We are back to being a punch line.

 

If Kirk ends up getting 30 million a year.  It doesn't make the FO look smart.  It's akin to not buying a stock when you could at $100 a share.  But hey look they didn't buy it at $250 a share either.  Well, I'd want the stock broker who bought the stock when it was a good buy versus fiddling around and letting the stock skyrocket and let other people (versus me) benefit from the action.

 

Plus if Kirk gets $30 million a year -- that makes the stakes very interesting as for Kirk's career.  It means that a team believes big in Kirk.  Bruce doesn't.  Now, lets see who ends up right.

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7 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'll admit to some hard feelings. I don't like the fact that he refused to negotiate in 2017 and that he announced he would refuse to negotiate in 2018 (at least until after free agency started in March). My hard feelings are that of the jilted boyfriend. I'm not sure if the Redskins were done wrong, but I was done wrong.

 

Kirk Cousins done wronged every Redskins fan who ever screamed "You like that!"

 

(maybe serious. probably not. But maybe a little serious.)

yeah that's my stance too. If he doesn't want to be a redskin **** him....cause I'm a redskins fan....cause that's the way I was born

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I personally have stopped caring what teams are ready to offer Cousins what contract. It wasn't a fit here, whether we didn't want him for the price, he didn't want us, or both. We now have a comparable QB - albeit 4 years older - at a price we were willing to spend and under contract for half a decade. I'm content (not over the moon) with where we stand in THIS offense at the QB position for the next 2-3 years. I assume we'll draft an heir apparent next year or the following year and hope to move forward with stability there. 

 

I'm much more interested in how the off-season pans out around filling other holes on this team. QB wasn't the primary reason we lost 9 games last year and it won't be the primary reason we lose the majority of the games we lose this coming year. That will depend on how we beef up the DL, fill out the WRs, find elements of a running game, fortify the secondary, etc. 

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5 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

yeah that's my stance too. If he doesn't want to be a redskin **** him....cause I'm a redskins fan....cause that's the way I was born

 

I get it.  But my correlation to this is Vinny.  I wanted the dude gone in the worst way towards the end of the tenure.  My take wasn't love Vinny = love the Redskins.  I've been following the Kirk contract soap opera to death like most of everyone here.  Some of the beat guys have been eerily on the money about what's gone on. 

 

Their take isn't Kirk = doesn't love the Redskins.  It's Kirk/Kirk's agent = dislike Bruce.  Bruce=Runs the Redskins.

 

Does it bother me that Kirk and his agent don't like Bruce or trust his competence.  No.  And I think that's the clear bottom line.  

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'll admit to some hard feelings. I don't like the fact that he refused to negotiate in 2017 and that he announced he would refuse to negotiate in 2018 (at least until after free agency started in March). My hard feelings are that of the jilted boyfriend. I'm not sure if the Redskins were done wrong, but I was done wrong.

 

Kirk Cousins done wronged every Redskins fan who ever screamed "You like that!"

 

(maybe serious. probably not. But maybe a little serious.)

After the way he was handled by Bruce for 2 years, I think he simply didn't want one man (Bruce) to determine his value and the rest of his career. So he wanted FA to set his value, then he could negotiate with the devil with both parties knowing his value. Bruce didn't want that.

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bruce gave kirk exactly what him and his agent wanted...more than we were willing to pay. bruce outsmarted himself

 

but in the end it comes down to whether or not he wants to be here. Kirk doesn't want to be here. He wants to leave his team for something else.

 

Welcome Alex

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13 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

bruce gave kirk exactly what him and his agent wanted...more than we were willing to pay. bruce outsmarted himself

 

but in the end it comes down to whether or not he wants to be here. Kirk doesn't want to be here. He wants to leave his team for something else.

 

Welcome Alex

 

The narrative has been consistent on one front in particular -- doesn't matter the source, local or national

 

Kirk likes fanbase

Kirk likes being a Redskin

Kirk likes Jay

Kirk even grew to like Dan

Kirk and his agent don't like Bruce and the feeling is mutual.

 

Ironically they were just talking about it on 106.7 -- with some fans its like being dumped by your girlfriend so you want to build the narrative up that she's bad.  I get the psychology.  I am just saying for me, I would only be bothered if I was a big Bruce person.  And I am not.  We can say just shrug off Bruce as just being a small part of the soup -- but that would be akin to saying love the restaurant even though you hate the chef and think he's a bad cook.  It just doesn't all flow together IMO.

 

As for the welcome Alex.  I am with you there.  But I don't take personally that kirk and his agent had a spitting war with Bruce and it got personal.  I wouldn't sum it up that Bruce outsmarted himself.  I'd say Bruce was a douche and that colored the negotiations even more than the money.

 

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26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get it.  But my correlation to this is Vinny.  I wanted the dude gone in the worst way towards the end of the tenure.  My take wasn't love Vinny = love the Redskins.  I've been following the Kirk contract soap opera to death like most of everyone here.  Some of the beat guys have been eerily on the money about what's gone on. 

 

Their take isn't Kirk = doesn't love the Redskins.  It's Kirk/Kirk's agent = dislike Bruce.  Bruce=Runs the Redskins.

 

Does it bother me that Kirk and his agent don't like Bruce or trust his competence.  No.  And I think that's the clear bottom line.  

 

 

 

 

Exactly. The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that we have a terrible FO and that Snyder/Allen are basically cancerous. I don't get why people seem to be taking it personally with Cousins when fans agree with his assessment of the FO. 

 

Cousins sees the same things the fans see and more. Why is he a bad guy for wanting to get away from this organization? 

 

Bruce must love the guys painting Cousins as greedy. I think some heads are going to explode when he ends up giving a good team a semi-discount relative to market.

 

We already aren't hearing "we can't afford it!" anymore now that we've overpaid Smith, and when Cousins signs somewhere for a similar AAV to Smith's extension I assume the true feelings will come out -  "well he sucks." 

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I get that some wish Cousins was still the QB. It makes sense.

 

I get that people are mad about how this has all been handled...

 

But, let's keep in mind that's not Alex Smith's fault.

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13 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

We already aren't hearing "we can't afford it!" anymore now that we've overpaid Smith, and when Cousins signs somewhere for a similar AAV to Smith's extension I assume the true feelings will come out -  "well he sucks." 

 

Havent overpaid for Smith at all. Not in cash terms anyway.

 

And if Cousins signs on a similar value cash deal elsewhere it will simply put to bed the notion our FO could have had him on a cheaper contract. It will confirm he wanted out at all costs.

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21 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

Exactly. The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that we have a terrible FO and that Snyder/Allen are basically cancerous. I don't get why people seem to be taking it personally with Cousins when fans agree with his assessment of the FO. 

 

Cousins sees the same things the fans see and more. Why is he a bad guy for wanting to get away from this organization? 

 

Bruce must love the guys painting Cousins as greedy. I think some heads are going to explode when he ends up giving a good team a semi-discount relative to market.

 

We already aren't hearing "we can't afford it!" anymore now that we've overpaid Smith, and when Cousins signs somewhere for a similar AAV to Smith's extension I assume the true feelings will come out -  "well he sucks." 

Some people tend to hate who they once loved, some sort of cognitive dissonance. They loved him putting up multiple 4000+yds/season and now they hate him because they think he's greedy as he will likely be gone. They liked his stats back then, but now they don't no more saying he played to inflate his stats.

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25 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

Exactly. The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that we have a terrible FO and that Snyder/Allen are basically cancerous. I don't get why people seem to be taking it personally with Cousins when fans agree with his assessment of the FO. 

 

 

Agree.   On parts of the story with the contract there is some ambiguity on certain things but there is almost no ambiguity on this point:  Kirk's agent and or Kirk are bothered by the combination in their minds of Bruce's incompetence and douche behavior.

 

Do we want Kirk to overlook all of that?  I get the instinct.  We overlook it.  So why shouldn't he?  I am still a fan of the team in spite of Bruce.  But I don't blame Kirk for wanting to bolt.  He didn't grow up a Redskins fan.  Bruce's behavior effects his livelihood.  Bruce's behavior only effects our hobby.  Apples to oranges.

 

Is Bruce's role in this overstated or understated?  No way to know.  But almost every story about why a deal didn't get done circles back to Bruce.  Eric Schaffer who was involved in the negotiations and has a reputation for being a good guy and competent -- low and behold we haven't heard a single story about the agent not liking him, ditto Kirk.  It's all been about Bruce.  Coincidence?  Maybe.  I doubt its a coincidence though. 

 

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I get that some wish Cousins was still the QB. It makes sense.

 

I get that people are mad about how this has all been handled...

 

But, let's keep in mind that's not Alex Smith's fault.

 

I agree with this.  I suspect the QB moves mountain crowd -- they don't fail in the clutch, they play big without running games, etc -- will ultimately feel let down by Alex after the initial honeymoon.  Alex is mortal just like the other QBs.   But I am a bigger fan of Alex than most.  I think he's a little drop off from Kirk but not much.  I don't like the trade from the long view.  But short term, its perfect.

 

He's a cool and classy dude.  From what I've observed ironically maybe the closest QB out there from a personality stand point to Kirk -- maybe a little quieter and more laid back but similar type of dude. 

 

I noticed Feinstein and Jenkins both whom hate Snyder wrote columns that more or less go that Alex is so classy -- how is that going to fit here? :)  But I think people will dig him especially before the season starts. 

 

 

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Again, my take. FO went with tag after 2015 due to limited good sample size (which I agreed with, however both FO and I were wrong) . FO went with Exclusive tag after 2016, which in their minds showed they were serious and gave them “plenty “ of time to negotiate a LTD. Turns out they were wrong. Cousins and his agent took as a slap in the face and decided they would not negotiate at all which led us to this off-season. I will not comment on winners or losers in the Smith trade/Cousins Tag/Cousins Free Agency until the details of Smith’s contract are revealed/ Cousins does or does not get traded and what contract he signs. 

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Kirk is to blame as much as Bruce, they both played hard ball when it favored them.

The Redskins did pay Kirk 24 mil. last year too. And were ready to sign and pay him but he did not want to talk contract.  Just like

this year and you can't pay him 34 mil. only to see him sign it and play it out another year. It had to stop and you cannot let the team go into free agency without a QB.  Bruce screwed him, he screwed Bruce and we pay as fans because of their egos and greed.  If Kirk wanted to be in Washington he would have already agreed to a contract for more than 24mil.  What is he waiting for the Redskins to do, they are not going to franchise him for 34mil.  It was not going to end well for the Redskins, fans, Bruce.  Kirk was going to take his ball to another town and get the big payback on Bruce , he and his agent could not let it go.  Only Bruce was not going to let it happen ego and all.  Now if you still have these poor Kirk thoughts you can get 2 Tee shirts for the price of 1 on his web sight, you like that!  You think after being here this long he would not be renting a townhouse also.  Now if Bruce could get canned then that would be justice.

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20 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Bruce screwed him, he screwed Bruce and we pay as fans because of their egos and greed.  

 

You throw all this Bruce and Kirk back and forth stuff as if they should work it out and be one and done.  The thing is its not a one and done relationship. 

 

Since it's not like an Ebay transaction where you work something out and you are on to the next transaction.  You run into the Team President just about every day for 7 months a year.  He's there at practice.  He's there at the games.  He's the guy dictating your supporting cast.  He's the guy (if its Superbowl or bust) that will likely dictate the most whether you get to the big dance. 

 

So his take on Bruce and vice versa I'd suspect going deeper implication wise to just working out the contract.  

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On 2/6/2018 at 8:30 AM, Alexa said:

I wonder how Smith would have fared with our line and wr's? I'm guessing he'd have about 12 TD passes and 3,000 yards. 

Speculation is a wonderful thing ain't it? 

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