Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[carex]

38 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

If I'm Kirk and the Redskins place the Franchise tag on me, I don't sign it and inform them that I won't be negotiating with any team that wants to trade for me. So the team is just stuck holding 34.5 mil in cap space for me, rendering them unable to pursue FAs and unable to deal me.

 

Then, if they are still holding me on the tag, I give them a week or two into the FA period, then inform them that I am now going to sign it, but still won't talk to any team that deals for me and that I intend to wait until unrestricted FA in year. So, either remove the tag before I can sign it, or you've guaranteed me 34.5 mil and any team that takes me off your hands knows I am a rental. 

 

That's how I play it, because no tag is best for me and I am trying to force the Redskins into that situation. If the Redskins wanted to deal Cousins, then they shouldn't have allowed the Smith deal to go public. They have no leverage now. 

 

The Skins haven't been all that active in the early days of FA in recent years compared to years past, and if the Vikings and the Broncos are among those team he won't negotiate with, then he's just pissed off two of the teams he wants to go with. 

 

Seriously, "I'm glad to be here Mr. Elway, but I won't negotiate with you till I'm an unrestricted free agent" isn't going to fly

5 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Which starts to raise the possibility that we get stuck with him at 34.5 mil. At least deep into the offseason.

 

if we're a month in, he hasn't signed and the interest has dried up then as soon as the agent calls to say "we're ready to sign" then you reply with "oh, we were just going to call you, we're pulling the tender"

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

The Skins haven't been all that active in the early days of FA in recent years compared to years past, and if the Vikings and the Broncos are among those team he won't negotiate with, then he's just pissed off two of the teams he wants to go with. 

 

Seriously, "I'm glad to be here Mr. Elway, but I won't negotiate with you till I'm an unrestricted free agent" isn't going to fly

LOL. I think you're missing the point. This is about the Redskins not being able to hold the tag on him and him forcing us to let him go.

[carex]

9 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

LOL. I think you're missing the point. This is about the Redskins not being able to hold the tag on him and him forcing us to let him go.

 

okay.  It's worth the effort then

[OVCChairman]

17 minutes ago, carex said:

 

The Skins haven't been all that active in the early days of FA in recent years compared to years past, and if the Vikings and the Broncos are among those team he won't negotiate with, then he's just pissed off two of the teams he wants to go with. 

 

Seriously, "I'm glad to be here Mr. Elway, but I won't negotiate with you till I'm an unrestricted free agent" isn't going to fly

 

if we're a month in, he hasn't signed and the interest has dried up then as soon as the agent calls to say "we're ready to sign" then you reply with "oh, we were just going to call you, we're pulling the tender"

lol if he hasn't signed by the end of the week after we apply the tag i'm pullin the tag. 

[kingdaddy]

27 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Which starts to raise the possibility that we get stuck with him at 34.5 mil. At least deep into the offseason.

Yep...high risk.

[Psihawk]

Coming in late on this one.. The Skins knew they weren't keeping Cousins.  Why didn't they setup a trade this year and get some picks and/or players for him?  Why have the potential to let him walk without nothing?  Is this just the bumbling idiots in the Front office?

[actorguy1]

If some team (Browns or Jets) is willing to make a verbal deal with the Redskins to transition tag him for $28.8 million and then trade him to said team (even if it’s only for one year) with said team returning a draft pick to the Redskins before the start of free agency, who am I to say it is purely a pipe dream. That is the only scenario that makes sense, however far fetched it may seem. 

[Burgold]

Playoffs 2018--

 

Great Quarterback vs. Great Team.

Team wins.

 

There's no one on Earth who'd pick Foles over Brady to be their long term QB. Eagles were on top almost the whole damn game.

[ncr2h]

12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Playoffs 2018--

 

Great Quarterback vs. Great Team.

Team wins.

 

There's no one on Earth who'd pick Foles over Brady to be their long term QB. Eagles were on top almost the whole damn game.

 

Now we have a worse QB AND a worse team.

[carex]

1 hour ago, Psihawk said:

Coming in late on this one.. The Skins knew they weren't keeping Cousins.  Why didn't they setup a trade this year and get some picks and/or players for him?  Why have the potential to let him walk without nothing?  Is this just the bumbling idiots in the Front office?

 

gotta play the games.  They only had one QB besides.  and frankly the same thing that makes a deal unlikely in this offseason made one unlikely during the season, he wants to hit free agency.

[mistertim]

28 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Playoffs 2018--

 

Great Quarterback vs. Great Team.

Team wins.

 

There's no one on Earth who'd pick Foles over Brady to be their long term QB. Eagles were on top almost the whole damn game.

 

At the same time, Foles played pretty lights out and made lots of clutch throws in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if Foles is now going to be the #1 target of QB needy teams in the offseason, and Kirk will be #2. Foles doesn't have gaudy regular season stats outside of one year but he showed up and played well in the postseason and is now a SB winner and SB MVP. He's also unlikely to be asking for a record breaking contract. He'll get a good one, but I doubt it will be what Kirk is asking. So that's one team that had interest in Kirk that may be out of the Cousins sweepstakes. 

[Stadium-Armory]

Nevermind.

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

At the same time, Foles played pretty lights out and made lots of clutch throws in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if Foles is now going to be the #1 target of QB needy teams in the offseason, and Kirk will be #2. Foles doesn't have gaudy regular season stats outside of one year but he showed up and played well in the postseason and is now a SB winner and SB MVP. He's also unlikely to be asking for a record breaking contract. He'll get a good one, but I doubt it will be what Kirk is asking. So that's one team that had interest in Kirk that may be out of the Cousins sweepstakes. 

Yeah, the question will be does Foles = Timmy Smith

 

Non the less, everyone who said you can't win without a franchise QB. The Eagles just won one with a back up who was very nearly run out of the NFL because he sucked so badly in previous years. Pederson played to Foles' strengths. The system won. The team beat Brady.

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Yeah, the question will be does Foles = Timmy Smith

 

Non the less, everyone who said you can't win without a franchise QB. The Eagles just won one with a back up who was very nearly run out of the NFL because he sucked so badly in previous years. Pederson played to Foles' strengths. The system won. The team beat Brady.

 

I suppose it's possible and you could be right, but the QB position is also much different than RB. I'm thinking at least a few teams will have him high on their list. Only issue with Foles is that he isn't a FA IIRC so someone will also have to trade for him. Someone will still bite though. It would be different if he didn't really do anything and it was the defense or something that won it for them but this was a total offensive game and he played really well. Kirk will have to convince teams that he can do that for them and that he can handle the big pressure situations in the playoffs or other must-win games. Foles doesn't really have to clear that hurdle now.

[Burgold]

Oh, no question. Foles just made himself a lot of money if he can get the Eagles to trade him. Is he Tom Brady, Joe Montana, etc. reborn? I don't think he is, but he will be offered that kind of contract. He was a playoff and Superbowl deity.

[skins island connection]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

At the same time, Foles played pretty lights out and made lots of clutch throws in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if Foles is now going to be the #1 target of QB needy teams in the offseason, and Kirk will be #2. Foles doesn't have gaudy regular season stats outside of one year but he showed up and played well in the postseason and is now a SB winner and SB MVP. He's also unlikely to be asking for a record breaking contract. He'll get a good one, but I doubt it will be what Kirk is asking. So that's one team that had interest in Kirk that may be out of the Cousins sweepstakes. 

 

 Foles winning and possibly becoming a FA would put a damper on Cousins price.

That would be tough to deal with if I were an Eagles GM; Foles will want to be a starter not a back-up, if he's still under contract he has no choice, but it will be very interesting to see what comes up.

 

Personally, I hope he goes to an AFC team, but moreso I hope whatever team may have had their eye on KC now has their eye on Foles. The entire process of KC and the FO turned me off to both of them, so now I'm hoping he goes to a crappy team.

[Birdlives]

for the love of God! 

 

We are getting NOTHING for Cousins. There is no reasonable way to trade Cousins for anything. Can we please stop bogging this thread down with useless speculation on what we’re going to do with Cousins? We already did it. We traded for a quarterback and are letting our homegrown qb walk free and clear, cause that’s how we do it. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Pederson adjusted his system and integrated concepts Kelly utilized to get the best out of Nick Foles.  A lot of coaches won't do that, he did.  It paid off but I think it's selling Foles short to say it's about the system.  He made some very elite throws over the past few weeks.  I can easily see Philly raking in royalties on him.

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

for the love of God! 

 

We are getting NOTHING for Cousins. There is no reasonable way to trade Cousins for anything. Can we please stop bogging this thread down with useless speculation on what we’re going to do with Cousins? We already did it. We traded for a quarterback and are letting our homegrown qb walk free and clear, cause that’s how we do it. 

 

 

 

 

Anyway.....****ING EAGLES. Always getting a ton of their backup and castoff QBs. 

[WelshSkinsFan]

Foles is really not likely to be traded unless the Eagles are planning to be really bold.  The best estimates on Wentz are 9-12 month recovery period and even the best case scenario in that is that he misses training camp and the pre-season and basically just tries to jump in on week 1.  We have recent experience of how that works out with franchise quarterbacks coming off knee surgery and I would bet the Eagles are smart enough to know that for all of their Carson is our guy talk they better hold on to Foles for next season in case things go all RGIII or god forbid Bridgewater on them.  Foles is not a Free Agent so he is pretty cheap for them to hang on to right now.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Foles is really not likely to be traded unless the Eagles are planning to be really bold.  The best estimates on Wentz are 9-12 month recovery period and even the best case scenario in that is that he misses training camp and the pre-season and basically just tries to jump in on week 1.  We have recent experience of how that works out with franchise quarterbacks coming off knee surgery and I would bet the Eagles are smart enough to know that for all of their Carson is our guy talk they better hold on to Foles for next season in case things go all RGIII or god forbid Bridgewater on them.  Foles is not a Free Agent so he is pretty cheap for them to hang on to right now.

 

Fair point...a lot depends on Wentz's progress and prognosis. But I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they're listening to offers. They may decide to strike while the iron's hot and get maximum trade value for him. But yeah, only if they think Wentz will be able to play this coming season.

[Jericho]

5 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

If I'm Kirk and the Redskins place the Franchise tag on me, I don't sign it and inform them that I won't be negotiating with any team that wants to trade for me. So the team is just stuck holding 34.5 mil in cap space for me, rendering them unable to pursue FAs and unable to deal me.

 

Then, if they are still holding me on the tag, I give them a week or two into the FA period, then inform them that I am now going to sign it, but still won't talk to any team that deals for me and that I intend to wait until unrestricted FA in year. So, either remove the tag before I can sign it, or you've guaranteed me 34.5 mil and any team that takes me off your hands knows I am a rental. 

 

That's how I play it, because no tag is best for me and I am trying to force the Redskins into that situation. If the Redskins wanted to deal Cousins, then they shouldn't have allowed the Smith deal to go public. They have no leverage now. 

 

If you're Cousins, that's how you should play it. Or at least threaten to play it that way. You simply don't sign and don't cooperate. the hope is to eventually have the tag rescinded. Even signing the tender isn't really a great options, because that's when you can be traded. Cousins wants to pick his next destination. The probably that Cousins has with waiting is that his options begin to dry up too. There are some possible great options on where to play - Minnesota for one. Maybe Jacksonville pending Blake Bortles health. Denver isn't bad. And then there's possible options like Buffalo, New York (jets), or Cleveland. But those teams aren't going to just sit around doing nothing. Some will move on and make other signings. So the longer Cousins' waits, the more limited his options become, I think there will always be some teams able to sign Cousins if he gets the tag rescinded. But they might not be the options Cousins wants.

 

Also, you have to acknowledge that being a QB is a bit different than most positions. You'd want to get signed early so you can learn a playbook, get reps in the system, and get familiar with your teammates. Cousins could hold out months, but it screws him as much as it screws the Redskins. So it is something of a game of chicken. Who blinks first? If Cousins really wants to go to Minnesota, he might have to blink first or risk Minnesota signing someone else. 

7 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

Another risk that I feel is getting overlooked.... the human factor of it all. 

 

It's probably overrated. The Patriots have made some pretty stone cold business decisions over the years and they seem to be doing just fine in attracting players. Yeah, winning cures all. But that's the point. The Redskins aren't really winning a ton as is. It's not like they have a ton of goodwill banked around the league. And by parlaying Cousins into assets, you actually help your chances to win. Which might make the team more attractive to free agents.

[Conn]

It's funny how pedigree changes things so much. Foles just duplicated, if not bettered, the type of postseason that got Flacco extremely overpaid. But because he's Foles and we think we know his ceiling compared to a former 1st rounder with a strong arm like Flacco, he'll be more affordable. Don't get me wrong, Flacco was never worth what he was paid, but the Ravens were in a tough spot as he won them a SB. Eagles are lucky they aren't in that same spot, with Wentz. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

26 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

If you're Cousins, that's how you should play it. Or at least threaten to play it that way. You simply don't sign and don't cooperate. the hope is to eventually have the tag rescinded.

Yeah, to be clear, the last step of what I was saying would be mostly a bluff. He doesn't want to sign the tag and get stuck here, though I don't think that would happen It's more about forcing the Redskins hand. The Skins would have to do some juggling to even fit the tag under the cap and if Cousins is refusing to sign it, so he can't be dealt as FA progresses, they have to make a call. Kirk's job in that scenario is to make it as hard as possible to not rescind it.

[#BgMase76#]

I don't see anything to salvage. KC doesn't want to be here for whatever reason. We got another QB at least equal and cheaper than what we had. The KC era is over. I'm just ready for the Skinz to move on. As if the whole situation didn't look bad for the organization before. I don't think holding KC hostage will improve our standing around league. Def not w/ free agents.

I don't see anything to salvage. KC doesn't want to be here for whatever reason. We got another QB at least equal and cheaper than what we had. The KC era is over. I'm just ready for the Skinz to move on. As if the whole situation didn't look bad for the organization before. I don't think holding KC hostage will improve our standing around league. Def not w/ free agents.