B&G Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 If we end up with 2 1st round picks and the players are there, I'm really hoping we draft two premium pass rushing defensive ends with them. That is pretty radical but I see premium college DE's coming into the league and contributing immediately and if we chose wisely, we could completely reverse our defensive fortunes. I would consider a young, proven DT in free agency, nothing spectacular but solid against the run. We don't have to have a star at every position..sometimes just a solid player with a good attitude and work ethic fits the bill just fine. I'd do the same thing with CB if Champ splits. Jetskin redux. A solid safety or center in round 3 may be a good choice. Of course, we wouldn't get the cream of the crop but good centers and safeties can be had in the third. I just read this post and it occured to me how pathetic it is to be discussing this type of thing at this time of year. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Not a bad idea........but who exactly are these 2 premium college DE's your talking about. B/c I havent found one yet that I think is worth a top 20 pick. They are pretty sad this year. There are a few good DT's but the only DE's i can think of are Pollack and Smith, both of which who I dont think should be selected in the top 25 at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TODD Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Will Smith=Top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I agree with Skins26, from what I have read so far on draft prospects at DE and DT. If we wind up with a top 5 draft pick, I like the idea of trading it down for say both of New England's lower #1 draft picks. And if Champ is dealt, we now have at least THREE #1 draft picks and replace Champ with CB Bobby Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Again, you're all assuming that Snyder won't blow any first rounders on restricted free agents. Certainly Coles was worth a first rounder, but the cost was still high and won't be seen for several more years. Building through the draft is still the best way to replace talent lost through FA. Are the Eagles worried that Bobby Taylor will be probably be gone at the end of the season? Not really. They drafted a number of DB's two years ago who've played fairly well when Taylor was out injured. I still think they are foolish if they let him go easily. It was great watching him completely shut down Jeremy Shockey in the second Giants game this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&G Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 My top 4 DE prospects: Will Smith - Ohio State David Pollack - Georgia Antwan Odom - Alabama Kenichi Udeze - USC The last three listed are underclassman but are expected to declare. Any two would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNorth Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 IMO, we do not need to reach for DL help in the 1st as there are solid prospects in the 2-3 rd who could contribute. With 2 first rounders we could reach & draft a DL if we had to, so long as our other pick is the best defensive player on the board. In the first 3 rds (4 picks in this scenario), I think we should address the following positions. DE S LB CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 i agree that we need 2 DE's and at least one DT. I would still try and trade down (we need a partner willing to do so... with NE's cost cutting approach, they may not be that partner) and use one of the first rounders on a DE. The other DE should come from free agency. the last thing we need on our line is two rookies. one is okay, but two could be disasterous especially with the weak DE class this year. the DT could also come from FA. use the other first rounder to pick up a CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC4 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 If we do get 2 DEs, I think that it would be far better to draft one and to maybe get a FL veteran DE, rather that drafting two. That way, we have a vet to help the rookie out and provide some leadership to him as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 What RFA's do you believe Snyder would target if any? The only RFA DE is Miami's Adewale Ogunleye. He was an UFA out of college. Talk about coming out of no where. He has 12 sacks this year and he had 9.5 last year. I don't know how well he plays the run and at 255 lbs. he seems kind of small but you can't hid the fact that he's leadind the league in sacks. What kind of compensation would the skins have to give up to get him? I don't see any other RFA's worth looking at, at any other positions of need on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opiate-Zeo Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I believe John Abraham is a RFA, as well as Shaun Ellis this year. We'll see how much the jets want to keep them. I expect they will tender them both pretty high. And, B&G is right, it does suck to talk about FA and drafts at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 i'd prefer NOT to talk about RFA's. i don't want to give anything up to get these guys. we need an infusion of cheap talent via the draft. we can't give away any more draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Fakeman Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Originally posted by AshburnSkinsFan Will Smith=Top 10 Will Smith pwns people.....He is ours for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 well if people aren't happy with a DL in the first round, and we agree that a solid rookie could be taken later, along with a solid vet in FA then i think we have to pick sean taylor in the 1st simply because he's BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 my problem with draft two high de's instead of a de and dt would be that most rookie de are pure pass rushers, but can not play the run. we have to bring in a vet de or dt for the run sake. And then draft a de and dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 May I ask where Will Smith was in the Michigan game?? Navarre had all day. Smith got shut down by a college T, whats he gonna do every week against NFL tackles, probably the same thing. Will Smith has bust written all over him. Just think about it guys, what does he have on Upshaw besides being smarter??? Upshaw is probably faster and stronger, plus Upshaw already has experience. Will Smith isnt worth a top 25 pick. I would think about taking Pollack in the top 25, but im not sure. Again the only D Linemen worth taking in the top 25 are Tommy Harris, or Chad Lavalais. Though we need D Line it would be stupid to take bad players who wont end up doing anything just because we need a certain position. If we have two first round picks, take Sean Taylor with the high one, and Kevin Jones with the later one. They would help us out much more than overrated D Linemen. Fix D Line through FA, I think we really just need 1 pass rushing DE, maybe two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 The thing that is funny is it doesnt matter where they are drafted; the only thing that matters is can we get him and can he contribute. And we didnt waste a 1st rounder on coles iggle phan it was a smart move. And while the pancreas injury has derailled jacobs rookie season this years experience and another offseason of training to get stronger and devlop the qua will only strengthen our WR corps. Johnson is an unrestricted free agent. Our farm team has abrahams rights until the end of the 2k4 season when he turns into an UFA. Right now if the seson ended we'd probably be picking 9th or 10th and that probably means us either making a splash with champs replacement or trading down if we follow some of the boards opinion that there arent any d linemen worth selecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novato Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 What if a Premiere WR or RB were to fall on our lap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNorth Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Originally posted by Skins26 May I ask where Will Smith was in the Michigan game?? Navarre had all day. Smith got shut down by a college T, whats he gonna do every week against NFL tackles, probably the same thing. Will Smith has bust written all over him. Just think about it guys, what does he have on Upshaw besides being smarter??? Upshaw is probably faster and stronger, plus Upshaw already has experience. Will Smith isnt worth a top 25 pick. I would think about taking Pollack in the top 25, but im not sure. Again the only D Linemen worth taking in the top 25 are Tommy Harris, or Chad Lavalais. Though we need D Line it would be stupid to take bad players who wont end up doing anything just because we need a certain position. If we have two first round picks, take Sean Taylor with the high one, and Kevin Jones with the later one. They would help us out much more than overrated D Linemen. Fix D Line through FA, I think we really just need 1 pass rushing DE, maybe two. i agree to an extent on Smith, I don't think he'll be a bust, but he will not dominate, I see him as a Chike Okeafor type. A solid 8-12 sack kinda guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Originally posted by Nighthawk What RFA's do you believe Snyder would target if any? The only RFA DE is Miami's Adewale Ogunleye. He was an UFA out of college. What kind of compensation would the skins have to give up to get him? I don't see any other RFA's worth looking at, at any other positions of need on our team. There are actually three RFA DE's worth looking at, but the Skins are not going to be able to sneak up on teams in 2004 and grab a premium player like we did with Coles. These are the RFA's: Shaun Ellis John Abraham Adewale Ogunleye The problem is that these teams will tender these players with so high a tender, that it will cost the Redskins a #1 and #3 pick and possibly even two #1 picks to sign them. That too steap a price to pay. Rumor has it that the Jets will not be able to sign BOTH Ellis and Abraham, so they might be willing to trade Abraham for a #1 pick. But would they trade him to the Redskins after last years bad blood between the teams? Therefore it would not cost any draft picks if we could sign Jevon Kearse -- assuming the Titans don't franchise him -- which is doubtful. If we rely entirely on the draft in 2004 for pass rushers, we are going to be in the same position as this year -- no pass rush -- because no immediate help is forthcoming in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. D Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 ok get this; if ogunleye was an udfa then why cannot we find the same sort of talent? ohh i forgot..we have OUR front office not someone else's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&G Posted December 6, 2003 Author Share Posted December 6, 2003 Inmate, why do you say no help is forthcoming in the draft? My estimate is that there are 6 DE's projected to be in the 2004 draft who would immediately upgrade our pass rush in a significant way. The real danger we face is in signing someone like Kearse to a huge salary and watch him wasting away on injured reserve or, even if that doesn't happen, shooting our salary cap to bits with all the woes that would incur. I hope the Danny won't fall into that trap, because we've been in it before and it's really deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Why does everyone think this year is so weak for DE? Pollack is a beast, and we're in prime position to get him. Will Smith, well, Michigan game aside, you can't argue with production. And he's significantly quicker, faster, and hell, probably stronger than Upshaw, with the same motor and half the penalties. Antwan Odom is a very good player, great size, nice speed, and enough strength to not get manhandled. Kenechi Udeze, if he can prove he isn't an undersized DT and truly has the speed to play DE, he'd be absolutely sick. Here's how I'd like it to go. Let's say we have the 10th pick in all the rounds. I know we won't, because of previous deals, but let's go along with it for the sake of ease. This is a perfect scenario. RD1: Sean Taylor RD2: Antwan Odom (or Kenechi Udeze, whom I'd prefer if he can take care of the aformentioned concerns, and if he drops this far, assuming he even enters ) RD3: Ben Watson (TE from UGA, could be the next McMichael) or maybe that Kabongo guy, the DT from Nebraska RD4: OK. This is my man. Isaac Hilton, DE, Hampton. 6'4", 250. Little small, but hey, so is Freeney. This guy runs a 4.49 on a bad day, 440 bench, 600 squat, 39 inch vert. Unfortunately, I've yet to see him play, but his jump off the line is supposedly nothing short of phenomenal (sp?). Lateral movement is tailback-like. He has great hands for shedding blocks and dominating, yes, I take this as a direct quote, DOMINATING offensive linemen. He always stays low, and is even good against the run. He sounds like a smaller Jevon Kearse, and alot of people project him as an OLB, but he could easily put on 10 Lbs and stay at end. I want him. He will destroy people, I guarantee it. The only concern is lack of competition, but good lord, if he can do half as well against pros, he'd still be great. I love this guy. We need someone like this. Anyway, now that I'm done with Round 4, let's move on. RD5: Igor Olshansky, DT, Oregon (or best DLine value, hopefully Igor will last this long due to inexperience) RD6: Benny Sapp, CB/S, Northern Iowa RD7: Best Punter available, dammit! And this is if we don't get a 1st for Champ. Then we could feasibly have a shot at Pollack and Taylor, especially if we get top-10 and then the Falcs pick on top of that. This could be a very good draft for us. As long as the FO gets Isaac Hilton, I'll be somewhat satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 We should go for another DE in the mid round too to add some depth. Like the guy from TCU, Schobel or something (I don't watch much college ball), who IMHO, has some potential (even though he's still too raw), and would be a mid-to-late rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNorth Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 The DE position is weak, look at some of the top players: Will Smith: Good overall player, does not dominate in college, unlikely to dominate in pros. David Pollack: Tweener, has a good motor but is limited athletically, production is down this yr. Kenechi Udeze: Has the most potential at the position, has the physical tools, but has not put it al together yet, the only DE I would draft in the top 10. Antwan Odom: Not a pass rusher, more of a "power end" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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