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2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

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 We need to start thinking draft to build the team and its not going to happen if you sign free agents , to replace the ones you lose.  We need to sign Brown no. 1.  if we lose others so be it, that's what the draft is for.  We have the top comp pick for Kirk , which will be after the last 3rd round pick. we may lose a couple others and pick up a couple more picks next year.  But if you sign free agents you bring the value down like we always do and get zero picks.  

If we do sign these top free agents we should go ahead and tag kirk and try to get something for him, what do you have to lose. You can cut him lose if no takers but we lose the pick.  Its not the year to go sign big name free agents.   

 

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41 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

 We need to start thinking draft to build the team and its not going to happen if you sign free agents , to replace the ones you lose.  We need to sign Brown no. 1.  if we lose others so be it, that's what the draft is for.  We have the top comp pick for Kirk , which will be after the last 3rd round pick. we may lose a couple others and pick up a couple more picks next year.  But if you sign free agents you bring the value down like we always do and get zero picks.  

If we do sign these top free agents we should go ahead and tag kirk and try to get something for him, what do you have to lose. You can cut him lose if no takers but we lose the pick.  Its not the year to go sign big name free agents.   

 

 

the time when you can tag is over well before free agency opens.

 

Your post requires the front office to be psychic.  And compensation is tied to contract size, so like if we lose Cousins and signed a guy equivalent to Chris Carter, for example, we're still getting a comp pick

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Laconfora talking about what he's heard about every team leading to FA, here's his Redskins part of it.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-difficult-decisions-all-32-teams-have-ahead-in-the-2018-nfl-offseason/

Washington

Things are a mess there, again. No one is buying a tag-and-trade scenario with Cousins, at least not that I've talked to. There are rumblings about Josh Norman's future there as well, and they could save $15 million in cash and $8 million in cap space by parting with him. "You just moved on from a franchise quarterback and paid a guy to replace him who you didn't have to pay, so anything is possible there," a personnel director said. "There is no way I would have extended Alex Smith like that. I hear that Norman hates the front office and would want to leave anyway. Something could happen there." Given all of the drama between Washington and Su'a Cravens, he could be gone too, now that he has been reinstated.

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18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Laconfora talking about what he's heard about every team leading to FA, here's his Redskins part of it.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-difficult-decisions-all-32-teams-have-ahead-in-the-2018-nfl-offseason/

Washington

Things are a mess there, again. No one is buying a tag-and-trade scenario with Cousins, at least not that I've talked to. There are rumblings about Josh Norman's future there as well, and they could save $15 million in cash and $8 million in cap space by parting with him. "You just moved on from a franchise quarterback and paid a guy to replace him who you didn't have to pay, so anything is possible there," a personnel director said. "There is no way I would have extended Alex Smith like that. I hear that Norman hates the front office and would want to leave anyway. Something could happen there." Given all of the drama between Washington and Su'a Cravens, he could be gone too, now that he has been reinstated.

If this is true then i just don't understand how Snyder can sit back and let this happen..I hope he realizes there will be no more of his BS speak of how he is embarrassed of how the team has under performed..Fans are tired of his **** as is and he needs to fire Allen now

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Simple, because who gives a **** if at the end of the day if Josh Norman likes Bruce Allen?  As long as he's a good Soldier on the field and in the room I don't care, which he is.

 

I think JLC is throwing **** at the wall here.  He saw a tweet from Norman and figured out that he probably doesn't like Allen.  Who does?

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Laconfora talking about what he's heard about every team leading to FA, here's his Redskins part of it.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-difficult-decisions-all-32-teams-have-ahead-in-the-2018-nfl-offseason/

Washington

Things are a mess there, again. No one is buying a tag-and-trade scenario with Cousins, at least not that I've talked to. There are rumblings about Josh Norman's future there as well, and they could save $15 million in cash and $8 million in cap space by parting with him. "You just moved on from a franchise quarterback and paid a guy to replace him who you didn't have to pay, so anything is possible there," a personnel director said. "There is no way I would have extended Alex Smith like that. I hear that Norman hates the front office and would want to leave anyway. Something could happen there." Given all of the drama between Washington and Su'a Cravens, he could be gone too, now that he has been reinstated.

 

I think signing Alex Smith was a really solid idea though giving up what we gave up is tough, imagine if he had hit he market, probably wouldn’t have landed him.  I think AS is an upgrade over Cousins especially if Cousins was giving the mixed signals vibe per CT.

 

This is kinda rumor-ie, petty reporting unfortunately.  Josh Norman isn’t going anywhere and if he is, then I’ll believe it when I see it.  Sua would make a little more sense but still holding out hope there.

 

tag and trade is at least worth looking into, right?  Wouldn’t someone want the exclusive rights to Cousins?  It’s not out of the question that there isn’t value there.  You may get nothing, but that’s what you’re getting from it anyway sooo.... sure. Tag and trade. No one buying?  Ok, worth trying.  Have fun with the bidding war!  :popcorn:

 

Doug Farrar mirroring my point this eve:

 

 

Edited by freakofthesouth
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14 minutes ago, freakofthesouth said:

 

I think signing Alex Smith was a really solid idea though giving up what we gave up is tough, imagine if he had hit he market, probably wouldn’t have landed him.  I think AS is an upgrade over Cousins especially if Cousins was giving the mixed signals vibe per CT.

 

This is kinda rumor-ie, petty reporting unfortunately.  Josh Norman isn’t going anywhere and if he is, then I’ll believe it when I see it.  Sua would make a little more sense but still holding out hope there.

 

 

Don't want to turn this to be about Kirk but I'll just say the take of the trade depends on the source, its interesting you got some who hate it, some who love it, some in between.  The PFF guy who was on 106.7 wasn't a fan of the trade and he's not the only one.  And there are some like Farrar, Tucker who like it. 

 

I guess I am an odd duck on the subject.  I personally hate the trade.  I think he's a downgrade (but not a big one) from Kirk.  But I am a relatively big Alex Smith guy.  I admire him as a player -- cool dude, too.  

 

Bringing this back to Norman.  Hard for me to see Fuller, Breeland and Norman going?  You got some beat guys thinking Zach Brown is out, too.  Galette said the other day that he's interested in coming back but the FO hasn't offered him a contract and advised him to hit FA.

 

Hard for me to believe all of this is going down -- unless they plan to hit FA hard to replace these guys? 

 

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31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't want to turn this to be about Kirk but I'll just say the take of the trade depends on the source, its interesting you got some who hate it, some who love it, some in between.  The PFF guy who was on 106.7 wasn't a fan of the trade and he's not the only one.  And there are some like Farrar, Tucker who like it. 

 

I guess I am an odd duck on the subject.  I personally hate the trade.  I think he's a downgrade (but not a big one) from Kirk.  But I am a relatively big Alex Smith guy.  I admire him as a player -- cool dude, too.  

 

Bringing this back to Norman.  Hard for me to see Fuller, Breeland and Norman going?  You got some beat guys thinking Zach Brown is out, too.  Galette said the other day that he's interested in coming back but the FO hasn't offered him a contract and advised him to hit FA.

 

Hard for me to believe all of this is going down -- unless they plan to hit FA hard to replace these guys? 

 

 

alternatively they have decided to do a tear down to do the rebuild many keep calling for. 

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43 minutes ago, carex said:

 

alternatively they have decided to do a tear down to do the rebuild many keep calling for. 

The two big things going against this are trading away Fuller (and a pick) and doing it to bring in and extend an older qb in Smith.  Weird way to rebuild, IMO.  

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@Skinsinparadise I hear ya, it’s definitely jarring, the way the whole thing went down, so sudden.  I guess there’s just nothing we can do about it, so I’m just tryna accept it and see the silver lining.  Alex Smith is a quality starting QB and that’s rare... and we timed it well in the pre-Garrapolo market.  (Now w AJ McCarron on the loose it’s getting interesting.). Clearly the team didn’t believe in any of the young rookie QBs, and that was tough for me because I could see a brand new era forming around some of them.

 

And now we have Alex Smith.  Keep in mind he was the #1 overall selection many years ago.  Tom Brady is 40.  QBs are living longer these days... I think Grudens scheme requires a savvy leader at the helm.  The offense would have been shackled and bound with a rookie signal caller.

 

Obviously things went sideways with Cousins and the organization.  Our FO is scary but at the same time the team is headed in the right direction, I think.  

 

Plus doesn’t Jay have a say in all of this commo?  Gotta be honest with you guys, I trust him.  I think he’s the best coach we’ve had in some time.

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3 hours ago, bh32 said:

If this is true then i just don't understand how Snyder can sit back and let this happen..I hope he realizes there will be no more of his BS speak of how he is embarrassed of how the team has under performed..Fans are tired of his **** as is and he needs to fire Allen now

We had a QB. We hit a point last offseason where any Front Office with even a modicum of sense knew it was time to make a decision on him. Trade him or sign him. We did neither. Made no real attempt at either. Just waited a year until his price tag was going to be much higher and his trade value much, much lower. Then, we punted even that value by acquiring another QB. A comparable one, but more than 4 years older, and at the cost of a draft pick and one of our best young players.

 

Read this board. In the wake of all this, the board, generally more knowledgable (and cynical) than the average Redskin fan, is full of people talking up the trade. Blaming the situation all on Kirk Cousins, talking about Smith being better. They are brushing aside criticism of how the whole thing was handled as basically an afterthought to talking about what a great job we did to "get something" at QB. The majority of the board, it seems, has largely bought in to the 2018 Redskins already and are not really all that interested in criticizing a situation that literally 31 other teams would have handled better.

 

This whole "the fans are going to revolt" thing sounds great, but at this point it's nothing but a fairytale. 

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Everyone seems to be overlooking one very important thing, Cousins doesn't want to be here and wasn't going to sign any LTD with the Redskins so they had to move on.

 

And Kirk is definitely not worthy of being the highest paid player in the league when he's a middle of the pack QB.

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2 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

They are brushing aside criticism of how the whole thing was handled as basically an afterthought to talking about what a great job we did to "get something" at QB. The majority of the board, it seems, has largely bought in to the 2018 Redskins already and are not really all that interested in criticizing a situation that literally 31 other teams would have handled better.

 

I suspect that is because the board in particular has already had the best part of 2 years debating the subject on Kirk. I think we all agree that it's been poorly handled for the best part. Not sure how many more times that needs to be said in all honesty.

 

I agree the fans aren't going to revolt. Other than those that give us weekly updates on the careers of Kirk and Fuller, we'll move on same old, same old.

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10 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I suspect that is because the board in particular has already had the best part of 2 years debating the subject on Kirk. I think we all agree that it's been poorly handled for the best part. Not sure how many more times that needs to be said in all honesty.

 

Nah. The fact that it's framed as being about Kirk, or that "poorly handled" becomes a footnote to discussions about Smith vs Cousins is just what I'm talking about.

 

Cousins was an asset. Allen played him into a nothing. To me, it was obvious that the only priority was Allens PR and nothing he did with Cousins had anything to do with football. But he succeeded. People wrote all year about how "Kirk doesn't want to be here" and "all he cares about is money". Those people bought right into the spin. It should have had nothing to do with Cousins. We could have traded him for a significant return. Instead, we did nothing for the sake of Bruce. And people reacted to it by debating Cousins' motivations. 

 

It doesn't really have anything to do with how much more needs to be said either. But when people are praising Allen, to any extent, for how he made a pint of chicken salad out of the ten pounds of chicken **** he cultivated, it's pretty clearly a sign that those fans aren't anywhere near ready to hold this organization accountable. 

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8 hours ago, carex said:

 

alternatively they have decided to do a tear down to do the rebuild many keep calling for. 

 

Tough for me to believe they trade for a 34 year old QB and that's the harbinger for a rebuild.  That's why this doesn't all add up to me.  But will see.  You never know.

 

6 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

@Skinsinparadise I hear ya, it’s definitely jarring, the way the whole thing went down, so sudden.  I guess there’s just nothing we can do about it, so I’m just tryna accept it and see the silver lining.  Alex Smith is a quality starting QB and that’s rare... and we timed it well in the pre-Garrapolo market.  (Now w AJ McCarron on the loose it’s getting interesting.). Clearly the team didn’t believe in any of the young rookie QBs, and that was tough for me because I could see a brand new era forming around some of them.

 

No way to know.  The narrative that some beat guys had is the FO did believe in some of the young QBs but were afraid of the perception fall out yet again of trading up for a QB and failing.  Plus they were afraid of Colt getting hurt and the young QB had to play this season and they are on some odd win now verdict season so they can't afford things going wrong.

 

I guess the win now context (or I assume heads will roll?) makes sense as for that trade.  But the public perception part of it doesn't to me.  When was the last time this team won a deal when they traded high draft picks -- they always seem to be the loser of the deal in the end.  And yeah the perception of the trade at the time is likewise always this time its different -- this time it was smart. :)  So I don't think losing any trade at this point is something that public perception easily swallows.

 

6 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

 

And now we have Alex Smith.  Keep in mind he was the #1 overall selection many years ago.  Tom Brady is 40.  QBs are living longer these days... I think Grudens scheme requires a savvy leader at the helm.  The offense would have been shackled and bound with a rookie signal caller.

 

I like Alex Smith.  I agree a rookie would set the the offense back for a season or two -- or maybe they would have gotten lucky who knows. But I am not personally in a win now or bust mood.  If not draft a rookie, I'd rather have signed McCarron or another FA.  My problem isn't Alex Smith.  My problem is what they gave up for him.

 

I trust Jay, too but I don't trust ANY head coach to make global present versus future type decisions for a team.  The present will win out almost always especially if their neck is potentially on the line.  

 

But anyway its sort of off topic here.  We can talk about it in the QB threads -- I guess the FO component to it is.  Back to Alex Smith, I agree he's the card that was dealt.  And I got no issue with him.  I like him.  I think one thing all the beat guys, especially Keim is harping on -- they are very likely signing a FA WR who is fast.  Not a ton of options on that front:  Watkins, Richardson -- Gabriel-Wilson but are those dude's too small?  Richardson seems the obvious one. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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7 hours ago, skinny21 said:

The two big things going against this are trading away Fuller (and a pick) and doing it to bring in and extend an older qb in Smith.  Weird way to rebuild, IMO.  

 

well, Colt is only on a one year contract himself, and we also have Dunbar, Moreau and Holsey as young CBs.

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10 hours ago, carex said:

 

the time when you can tag is over well before free agency opens.

 

Your post requires the front office to be psychic.  And compensation is tied to contract size, so like if we lose Cousins and signed a guy equivalent to Chris Carter, for example, we're still getting a comp pick

 

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@Skinsinparadise good chat re QB.  I understand that redskins nation is upset about how everything went down. And we are right to keep the criticism on the FO and such, but we also have to pick up the pieces and move on.  We don’t have all the info right, i mean, keeping Cousins, among other considerations, was going to cost too much.

 

now getting back to FA targets, man I just don’t see how, after we lost two extremely productive WRs, then tried to unsuccessfully replace one with Pryor, that we would turn around and frankly overpay for any of these FA targets.  Richardson has some upside I suppose, but also “disappeared” for stretches and battled injuries.  They gotta be feeling pretty good about the way Doctson is coming along and to me balancing him with a major upside dynamic speed playmaker in the draft makes by far the most sense.  Richardson is not the movable piece Tyreek Hill type.  great speed tho- flat 4.4 and decent workout, only 175lbs per playerprofiler.com: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/paul-richardson/

 

i’d take my chances in the draft on the next ODB.  golden Tate with a jet pack.

 

FA could address any of these: DT, OG, ILB, CB.  I think logically we’d see them probably sign FA ILB and CB given the market supply.  DT too has options, less so at OG.  Whatever they don’t scoop in FA of these positions I see a window in the 2nd where many of these needs could be met.

 

RB I don’t think they are going to do much. Might take a late round flyer or UDFA but they have a full room with the Bibbs contract. And I like Bibbs, good size, but he tested slower than Perine at 4.67.  I just don’t see them making a huge move there, unless of course, they do.

 

edit:  I’m also not one of these folks that thinks the defense is in shambles.  I’m considering the brutal situation with injuries this year, I mean, that had to have been league worst in terms of the injury bug.  But when healthy, there are playmakers on the defense.  Watched the card game from last year and we’re getting great pressure.  Preston Smith had a huge game, as did Lanier though he’s not ready just yet to start, he is a solid pass rusher. We have Ryan Anderson waiting in the wings as he develops and dude was a force at Bama, so, I don’t see that many holes in the D.  Cut McClain maybe, sign an FA DT and add a young guy in the later rounds as DT is deep!, Fa sign ILB, and maybe a corner though we may turn to the draft for a CB. If Denzel Ward is there when we are picking we might choose him.  Still will be legit options in the 4th round for CB as well, and of course we could always resign Breeland if we want.

 

The offense must improve however, and even though we were 12th in passing offense last year, we still need playmaking assets that are young and will bring serious mojo.

Edited by freakofthesouth
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2 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

@Skinsinparadise good chat re QB.  I understand that redskins nation is upset about how everything went down. And we are right to keep the criticism on the FO and such, but we also have to pick up the pieces and move on.  We don’t have all the info right, i mean, keeping Cousins, among other considerations, was going to cost too much.

 

 

 I know you mean it all in good spirits but by prefacing the point about people being upset with everything that went down alludes to the idea if people got over that and just zoned in on the deal itself --  they'd really dig the deal as if its an obvious slam dunk terrific one.   In good spirits back, I think most who are judging the deal aren't being emotional.  I look at the deal without factoring Cousins one whit.  And I think its a bad trade whether Kirk existed or not.  My only beef with the deal with Kirk as a factor is simply that they likely squandered any potential trade value for him   And again a deal for Alex Smith was vetted intensely in the Kirk thread weeks before it happened.  I said back then to me that's worst case scenario. On a scale of 0-10.  I'd give the trade a 3.   I liked other scenarios much better.   I am not changing my mind to bask in the typical off season hype.  Though I don't blame those who chose to do that or who like the deal.  And I like Alex Smith.  But moving on...:)

 

2 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

 

now getting back to FA targets, man I just don’t see how, after we lost two extremely productive WRs, then tried to unsuccessfully replace one with Pryor, that we would turn around and frankly overpay for any of these FA targets.  Richardson has some upside I suppose, but also “disappeared” for stretches and battled injuries.  They gotta be feeling pretty good about the way Doctson is coming along and to me balancing him with a major upside dynamic speed playmaker in the draft makes by far the most sense.  Richardson is not the movable piece Tyreek Hill type.  great speed tho- flat 4.4 and decent workout, only 175lbs per playerprofiler.com: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/paul-richardson/

 

i’d take my chances in the draft on the next ODB.  golden Tate with a jet pack.

 

I recall about how much you dig Christian Kirk and to a lesser extent Ridley.  But I am betting you are likely going to be disappointed.  

 

1. Insider types like Keim and Finlay are typically correct as for the overriding theme coming up in FA.  Last off season it was D line, D line, D line.  This year its deep threat WR, deep threat WR.  They practically are putting up a billboard for it.  Typically, when its that over the top.  They tend to be correct.   And they are over the top on the FO having that focus in FA.  So I'd guess they odds we are getting a receiver in FA is somewhere between 95% and 100%.

 

2. The nature of the Alex Smith deal -- getting a veteran lends to a win now vibe.  Several beat guys have said the guys in that building think they are close.  Typically (not always) wide receivers in the draft take awhile to develop.   The front office also has been wretched at drafting the position.  Call us the anti-Steelers. I wonder if they take a position that has been dicier for the FO to get right in the past and that might require more patience.

 

3. If they do sign a WR or two in FA and they are in win now mode, I doubt they take another one high in the draft unless he is the clear BPA.   I am not saying this is what I would do.  But I am saying if there is one hint that is in your face from the beat guys its a speedy WR in FA. 

 

2 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

 

RB I don’t think they are going to do much. Might take a late round flyer or UDFA but they have a full room with the Bibbs contract. And I like Bibbs, good size, but he tested slower than Perine at 4.67.  I just don’t see them making a huge move there, unless of course, they do.

 

Tander and Standig seem to think they will stand pat.  But neither said that was from talking to people there.  I hope they are wrong.  I think they need a RB in the worst way.

 

2 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

 

edit:  I’m also not one of these folks that thinks the defense is in shambles.  I’m considering the brutal situation with injuries this year, I mean, that had to have been league worst in terms of the injury bug.  But when healthy, there are playmakers on the defense.  

 

 

If Zach Brown is back.  I think they need another DT -- preferably nose type and slot CB.

 

Patrick Robinson and Lotueleli?

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Was just thinking again about the idea that I really hope they don’t sign Landry, but ironically, I see a lot of parallels to the trade for Smith.  

 

Landry (like Smith) is a great add if you feel like you’re either really close, or if you have a lot of cap space.  Both moves cut deeply into our cap space which precludes us from being very active in filling other holes, re-signing our FAs and possibly extending our soon to be FAs.  Both moves would be borne out of not signing proven guys in our system to high priced deals.  

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Insider types like Keim and Finlay are typically correct as for the overriding theme coming up in FA.  Last off season it was D line, D line, D line.  This year its deep threat WR, deep threat WR.  They practically are putting up a billboard for it.  Typically, when its that over the top.  They tend to be correct.   And they are over the top on the FO having that focus in FA.  So I'd guess they odds we are getting a receiver in FA is somewhere between 95% and 100%.

 

If they do sign a WR or two in FA and they are in win now mode, I doubt they take another one high in the draft unless he is the clear BPA.   I am not saying this is what I would do.  But I am saying if there is one hint that is in your face from the beat guys its a speedy WR in FA. 

 

 

Richardson as Allen is probably FT by the Jags but would love to add Allen to the mix as a UFA.

 

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8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Tough for me to believe they trade for a 34 year old QB and that's the harbinger for a rebuild.  That's why this doesn't all add up to me.  But will see.  You never know.

I think it is right in line with the Redskins actions for rebuilding.  Now all we need is Haynesworth to sign a big contract to anchor the line.

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@Skinsinparadise Right on,

 

Don't get me wrong, folks and fans are free to think and feel what they want about the trade, I didn't love it at first and still dont, but I can understand, a little, with the limited information I have, why it went down the way it did. I think the hype train is leaning more toward the negative aspects of bringing in AS, I tend to feel like he *could* be an upgrade for the team, but that remains to be seen, and until we get into the season it'll all just be speculation.

 

And that's an interesting point about the media saying they are for sure going after a FA deep threat WR.  I don't see it really working out that well given the reasons I mentioned, but hey, I'm a redskin fan, I am used to being disappointed.  and if that happens, then I will concede I don't know what the team knows and I don't see what the coaches see so there ya go.  If I were making decisions though, based on the info I have, which again is limited, I would balance the cap with the value of FAs based on team needs and address everything accordingly, as I have laid out in my approach in these threads.

 

I believe the first step should be someone like Star Lutululei or someone else that can come in and make an impact, and we should more than likely draft a guy as well?  I just think the supply of FA in these positions, DT, ILB, CB, makes sense to spend *some* money there.  WR is overpriced, I mean P Rich will be about 7 million per year which I think is a lot for him given his track record, but hey, then I hope he comes in and stretches the field and wrecks defenses.

 

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