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2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

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18 minutes ago, dckey said:

So Rob Kelley injured in 2017 is terrible, but according to YOUR link when healthy in 2016 he was ranked 17th, above Melvin Gordon, D Murray, and a host of other people!!!!!   But that doesn't matter, because he's just terrible.  But before you take me out of context I do not believe he is anything close to Guice.  I just don't think it's the end of the season because of Guice!!!!  Point being would you rather have Guice with a banged up oline, or Kelley with a healthy oline (I know we all want Guice and the oline), but who would produce more?

I still take Guice but agree with everything else you said.

 

I think honestly it comes down to positive/negative.

 

If you have a positive outlook, just in general, you choose to focus in on the fact O-Line could be healthier, Perine could take a step, Kelly is trimmer and looked promising 2 years ago, CT emerged as a star last year, Marshall/Bibbs intriguing.

 

If you have a negative outlook, just in general, you focus more on last year's rushing performance, the loss of Guice, remaining the same, Perine fumbles and is soft, Kelly stinks.

 

I consider myself in the first group because one, I just have a tough time seeing our O-Line being as banged up as it was last year. And second, I've seen enough out of player development from this coaching staff over the years to think a guy like Perine could be a good bit better (not saying all that much) as a 2 down bruiser and then CT is CT. Also, Alex. I think he makes the run game better as well.

 

Regardless of either stance, I still just don't put all that much stock into the idea that the running game is the be all end all. Especially in a Gruden lead offense. But yeah, count me firmly in the group that is still very excited for this season even though when I heard the news of Guice out on the golf course last Friday, I was silent for a solid 4 holes. Was so excited to watch the guy play, and was crushed. 

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4 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

As much as I'd love that... I can't see us carrying 5 WR and 3 RBs.  Between J.Doc and P.Rich's injury history, and CT being a lock for the 3rd down spot, we will either carry 6 WRs or 4 RBs... or both.  

It’s a moot point, but yeah, I made that assumption in my post (so I completely agree).  

 

 

One thing that scares me about the run game... our depth at G.  If Scherff were to go down, man, I don’t want to think about it.  

Edited by skinny21
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1 hour ago, dckey said:

So Rob Kelley injured in 2017 is terrible, but according to YOUR link when healthy in 2016 he was ranked 17th, above Melvin Gordon, D Murray, and a host of other people!!!!!

 

Brother please calm down

 

Truth is I have the opinion that this team needs more RBs and after tonight or another night when they struggle I think they are forced to sign someone. Just my opinion no reason to get upset about it. If you think Kelley is going to be good I don't but I'm not gonna get upset because you think that. Not my style. I just come here to BS and share opinion and not to fight

 

 

1 hour ago, dckey said:

I just don't think it's the end of the season because of Guice!!!!  Point being would you rather have Guice with a banged up oline, or Kelley with a healthy oline (I know we all want Guice and the oline), but who would produce more?

 

First I never said the season was over. Truth is the season has 19 more games to play before it's over. In no way do I think the season is over because Guice got injured.

 

As for the question I'd rather have Guice with any O-Line over Kelley. Just my opinion. Peace brother

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39 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Brother please calm down

 

Truth is I have the opinion that this team needs more RBs and after tonight or another night when they struggle I think they are forced to sign someone. Just my opinion no reason to get upset about it. If you think Kelley is going to be good I don't but I'm not gonna get upset because you think that. Not my style. I just come here to BS and share opinion and not to fight

Please forgive me if you thought I was upset, not by any means I visit this site everyday just to see different opinions, some have even swayed my original thoughts.  Like I stated I believe that we needed to upgrade RB, but I also don't believe that we are losing more games because of the injury, IF we have a healthy oline!!!!  

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Gruden's failure to address the RB situation after the Guice injury will spell his doom.

 

He's already on the hot seat, this is now or never for him.

 

You would expect some kind of urgency with a 34 yo QB and a young and talented defense, but alas, he's putting his chips on Rob Kelley. 

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2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Guice. Last year, when Guice was banged up, and his OL was banged up, he was pretty good, even if it was a down year for him. And once he gets to the 2nd level, he's more dangerous than Kelly could ever dream of being. Guice not only has great vision, can find a crease and exploit it and then explode. Kelly, can't do it. Guice will make more out of less. So, even if Kelly has better, more consistent holes, Guice wins.

That was in college, I just believe the better you are in the trenches than the better you will be running as compared to having a poor oline but elite runner

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9 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

That's a delta of 1.1 YPC. I don't think it's very realistic, but certainly the potential is there.

 

You've gotta have goals.  Whether you've got the talent to make that happen or can manage to keep the pieces to the puzzle in place enough to have a shot at achievement is going to play out when the games count.  

 

Pre-Season might not be the place where they get it going as they tip toe into the regular season hoping for full health (as a minimum).  I wouldn't expect to see the starting OL in Preseason game 2 but they'd better get some work in game 3.  One preseason game isn't going to get everyone on the same page for Week 1.  Difficult balancing act.  

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7 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Who do you think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hint: it was #77

I assumed, but was dealing with feed issues.  Saw Kalis in early, so I had my fingers crossed.  

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Catching up with some of the discussion here.  I don't look at an injury where its look hey imagine if we lost 3 O lineman instead, wouldn't that be worse?   Yeah no question the season is shot if we have the O lineman injuries like last year.    And I don't think our running games struggles last year was primarily a function of the O line even when they were banged up.  I used to think that was the case until I kept listening to Cooley who said otherwise and then I watched the coaches tape this off season.

 

And also I don't think its just about being positive or negative in general as for how you see the Guice injury. For 2 years in a row, I picked the team to go 10-6.   I can see them go 10-6 IF they had a good running game.  To me they need that as desperately as they needed to upgrade the run stopping unit.  I don't think Doug ever talks just to talk so when he said in the off season we need to upgrade the running game in the worst way -- he meant it.  And I agreed with him.

 

Nuance, nuance, nuance to me is in play with the Guice injury. It's not about one variable on its own.  It's how that injury plays with the rest of what we got cooking.   IMO if you want to maximize Alex's ball handling skills than its good to have a really good RB -- the threat of Alex with a dangerous RB on the field at the same time to me is a big part of his charm.  Now that's gone.   

 

I am in the camp that Alex is a downgrade but not a big downgrade to Kirk.  They both bring different strengths and weaknesses.  And to me what I am most intrigued about Alex is the RPO and RO -- that's his strength over Kirk and I think the dude can do more magic with it if he had a dangerous running back.  Now, its more difficult for him.  I've been consistent on the Kirk thread for years about how a running game opens up the passing game and makes everything go smoother -- let alone the teams that have beaten us in some of our worst losses including the Giants game that eliminated us from the playoffs did it via ball control -- they just kept our offense off the field.   I feel just as strongly about Alex needing a running game as I did about Kirk. 

 

The one team in the division who lacked a RB like we did -- now has a potential superstar at the position so we are alone in the division in all likelihood at having a weak running game.  Our best RB left has said he was told he's not going to be 100% until Nov and still feels pain on contact.   We again look to have a tough schedule.  We aren't the only team coming back from injuries -- Giants were right up there with us last year and they look healthier this year.  Eagles lost their QB.  Dallas missed their star player for about half the year.   Guice IMO is just not that guy you want to lose in all of that context.  Does it mean their season is shot?  Of course not.  But I think it makes them an underdog to make the playoffs -- look at the teams in the NFC which more than anything is the overriding point -- its an insanely stacked conference.  

 

Back to the running backs from last night.

 

Kelley had a nice catch.  Otherwise to me same old. 

 

Perine obviously had a really nice run.  I've said as soon as the Guice injury happened, I like Perine over Kelley.  But don't love the beat reporters saying that the coaching staff doesn't trust the dude with pass protection and ball handling and pre Guice injury there was a chance he wouldn't make the team.  Hopefully, that's wrong or he gets over that.

 

Martez Carter -- show some of his dynamism you can see from his college highlights.   I like him.  He's though so small I don't see him making the roster because I don't think they can afford a spot for a Sproles type.  But he might intrigue me the most though trying not to get attached because I don't think he makes the team.

 

Bibbs:  not great but ok last night.  But if you get the dude in space -- he has some moves.  I like him in the RPO format where its good to have a running back with good hands and can make plays in space.

 

Keim was just on, asked who will be the starter.  He said Jay is a Kelley guy.  He said if he were them it's a mistake to close yourself off mentally about the others if you have a fav but coaches tend to do that at times.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Just heard Bryon Marshall is out 2-4 weeks.  Assuming they might be in the market now for a FA.  I haven't really spent a lot of time thinking about it but for the moment, I'd think about Darkwa.

 

I do like Martez Carter wonder if he's in consideration as to making the roster.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just heard Bryon Marshall is out 2-4 weeks.  Assuming they might be in the market now for a FA.  I haven't really spent a lot of time thinking about it but for the moment, I'd think about Darkwa.

 

I do like Martez Carter wonder if he's in consideration as to making the roster.

 

He had the 2 best runs last night, but I don't think he makes it.

Honestly, they rest of the group looked pretty "meh". Not really any holes, except on the Perine run, but no one really made anything either.

Perine goes down way to easy for a big guy. He got slammed by the safety. That should not happen.

 

Being blunt, I don't think anyone left in FA is going to do much behind our OL. It's going to be anemic. :unsure:

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18 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

He had the 2 best runs last night, but I don't think he makes it.

Honestly, they rest of the group looked pretty "meh". Not really any holes, except on the Perine run, but no one really made anything either.

Perine goes down way to easy for a big guy. He got slammed by the safety. That should not happen.

 

Being blunt, I don't think anyone left in FA is going to do much behind our OL. It's going to be anemic. :unsure:

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't love any of the FA options.   The opportunity to seriously upgrade in FA passed.  But I think we are in the beggars can't be choosers department.

 

Love Jay but he like just about every coach has a pet player that doesn't make sense to me -- and to me that player is Robert Kelley.  Heck when Keim was on 980 this morning he more or less politely said Jay is hung up on Kelley as the #1 right now and he's likely not considering alternatives as seriously as he should because of how much he likes Kelley as a player.  Grant-Danny love playing the segment from last year where Jay almost sounds orgasmic when he said he loved Robert Kelley in a press conference. :D

 

I am gathering I like Perine more than you.  However, I don't like him to the degree where I am excited about him, though.  But I am open about him.  I agree for a big guy he doesn't always play like a big guy and has questionable ball handling skills -- ironically similar to Matt Jones in that regards.  

 

Bibbs didn't seem that good yesterday except again though he's good with his ball in his hands in open space so I put some value on that.

 

I forgot the guys name but one of the football fantasy national gurus was on 106.7 and goofing on how pathetic the Redskins RB crew looks like now post Guice -- he was saying they should call Cincy and chase G. Bernard.

 

On another note, Keim also talked about DRC.  He said that the team is also interested to see what cuts happen this month at the CB position.  And that they do have some interest in DRC.  Sounds like they have some interest in adding a veteran CB. 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't love any of the FA options.   The opportunity to seriously upgrade in FA passed.  But I think we are in the beggars can't be choosers department.

 

Love Jay but he like just about every coach has a pet player that doesn't make sense to me -- and to me that player is Robert Kelley.  Heck when Keim was on 980 this morning he more or less politely said Jay is hung up on Kelley as the #1 right now and he's likely not considering alternatives as seriously as he should because of how much he likes Kelley as a player.  Grant-Danny love playing the segment from last year where Jay almost sounds orgasmic when he said he loved Robert Kelley in a press conference. :D

 

I am gathering I like Perine more than you.  However, I don't like him to the degree where I am excited about him, though.  But I am open about him.  I agree for a big guy he doesn't always play like a big guy and has questionable ball handling skills -- ironically similar to Matt Jones in that regards.  

 

Bibbs didn't seem that good yesterday except again though he's good with his ball in his hands in open space so I put some value on that.

 

I forgot the guys name but one of the football fantasy national gurus was on 106.7 and goofing on how pathetic the Redskins RB crew looks like now post Guice -- he was saying they should call Cincy and chase G. Bernard.

 

On another note, Keim also talked about DRC.  He said that the team is also interested to see what cuts happen this month at the CB position.  And that they do have some interest in DRC.  Sounds like they have some interest in adding a veteran CB. 

 

 

 

Oh, I agree with your first statement. What we have is not good, and we need to look. But I don't see much. I think we're in agreement there.

 

2nd part, I think Jay is hung on Kelly as well, and he's just not good enough.

 

On Perine; that is likely. I want the 2nd coming of Earl Campbell out of him, or at least someone that runs with power for a guy that is 5'11" and 233.

The difference with Perine and Jones is height and speed. Matt is 6'2 and runs tall (a no-no) and people get under his pads. Perine is a bowling ball but goes down way too often on first contact. Matt Jones is faster.

 

I would love to have Alvin Kamara here.

 

I think the FF guys are right, as little as I think about FF. Our RB's are not good. Peterson at least runs angry. Even if he is not the guy he used to be, he still has vision. I don't care if he can't catch for ****. We have CT for that, and whoever is going to back him up.

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21 hours ago, Rogue Jedi said:

Gruden's failure to address the RB situation after the Guice injury will spell his doom.

 

He's already on the hot seat, this is now or never for him.

 

You would expect some kind of urgency with a 34 yo QB and a young and talented defense, but alas, he's putting his chips on Rob Kelley. 

I'm torn on this one, Gruden doesn't have personel power like Shanny, I'm looking at Doug and Bruce right now if anyone, have they even picked up the phone yet? 

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8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm torn on this one, Gruden doesn't have personel power like Shanny, I'm looking at Doug and Bruce right now if anyone, have they even picked up the phone yet? 

 

They almost have to. There are only 3 healthy guys on the roster. The question is; who they gonna call?

1. UDFA out of Lincoln Tech

2. Adrian Petterson, ext

3. NFL Exec.

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On a positive note, we did have two runs of over 30 yards.  Both were normal hand offs, not reverses or gadget plays.  If we can do that all year, it will keep us from being a bottom of the barrel running team.

Edited by ILikeBilly

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46 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

They almost have to. There are only 3 healthy guys on the roster. The question is; who they gonna call?

1. UDFA out of Lincoln Tech

2. Adrian Petterson, ext

3. NFL Exec.

 

Yep, I can one of these two happening and a lot of people not being happy about it, maybe even me.  Our hand is absolutely getting forced right now, if I'm a GM or an agent and looking at the Redskins, I smell blood.  

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2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

They almost have to. There are only 3 healthy guys on the roster. The question is; who they gonna call?

1. UDFA out of Lincoln Tech

2. Adrian Petterson, ext

3. NFL Exec.

IMO we have to wait until cuts start happening, I know its late but we ride with our rb's until new one catches up

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10 minutes ago, skins4 said:

IMO we have to wait until cuts start happening, I know its late but we ride with our rb's until new one catches up

 

I think you're missing the point. Right now we don't have enough RB's to run a practice. While I agree with waiting for final cuts to try and find someone that might be a starter for this year, we also need bodies. We started with 6, we are down to 3.

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27 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I think you're missing the point. Right now we don't have enough RB's to run a practice. While I agree with waiting for final cuts to try and find someone that might be a starter for this year, we also need bodies. We started with 6, we are down to 3.

I get you, I wasn't thinking along the lines of bodies but potential starters

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2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

They almost have to. There are only 3 healthy guys on the roster. The question is; who they gonna call?

1. UDFA out of Lincoln Tech

2. Adrian Petterson, ext

3. NFL Exec.

Ya got me. 

Lol. 

I actually went and googled running back from Lincoln tech. 

?

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22 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Ya got me. 

Lol. 

I actually went and googled running back from Lincoln tech. 

?

 

Sorry! Is there even a Lincoln Tech? I just spitballed the most ridiculous "small school" name I could come up with. :rofl89:

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