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2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

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4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

To the part in bold; do you know how hard that is to do? It's very difficult.

 

Yeah, I'm not pointing towards it being easy.  Rather, pointing out that a healthier OL with any of the RBs can make an improvement.  It seems that if they'd have had better luck there, that we'd have seen a closer per carry avg towards being successful.  Last year, after the opener vs PHI, they had two good rushing games vs the Rams and Raiders.  Then the injuries started to come into play.  I think it's difficult to gauge how successful or unsuccessful they'll be with the same RBs (Kelly or Perine with CT).  I think it's just as likely that with some OL consistency that one could expect improvement as it is that we'd see a repeated poor performance.  

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5 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

Right that wasn't my question though.  I'll answer the question.  It was 32 years ago.  The Chicago Bears.  And I think most would agree the Defense was the main reason they won.

 

They had Walter Peyton one of the best RBs to ever play the game. Hardly helps your point 

 

5 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

 

The point being an amazing running game isn't needed in today's game.  Adequate will suffice.  As one poster pointed out the Redskin's YPC when healthy last year was middle of the pack. 

 

Arguing that the very top rushing team didn’t win the super bowl is a meaningless argument. So is ignoring Walter Peyton’s greatness and so is Ignoring that there is a clear path to the playoffs today (9 out of the top 10 teams went to the playoffs and the third best team won the Super Bowl last season) just doesn’t compute with me. The proof that a good rushing team makes the playoffs is right there

 

5 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

 

IF the offense can stay healthy this is  a 10-15 rated running game in the NFL.  That's good enough for the team to make noise.

 

Its really not. Robert Kelley is below average and Perine is a turn over machine, and Thompson proved last season he can’t handle 20 touches a game or he breaks down. This isn’t a top five offensive line either that will make holes so big that anyone can be successful rushing the ball. Doug Williams made a point to say the top priority this offseason was fixing the rushing game and unfortunately for all of us his choice is getting surgery Friday by Dr Andrews and gone. Something must be done to fix this and that something requires talented players not on the team now imo

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@Skinsinparadise

 

Those are attempts at a little ribbing on my part. It's apparent through your posts that you put A LOT of stock in perception, media, lists, etc. Nothing wrong with that but I personally believe it can cause you to lose sight of how good a player like Trent Williams really is. How good Ryan Kerrigan really is. Again, clearly you are taking them as personal assaults so no more from me.

 

I was under the impression I was debating you about lowering us below the Cowboys/Giants because of the injury to a singular player. I attempted to bring up other parts of the roster as a means to substantiate my claim that doesn't seem like sound logic to me. But then you take that as me going round and round in circles about the same thing? Okkkkkkkkkkk then.

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2 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

Its really not. Robert Kelley is below average and Perine is a turn over machine, and Thompson proved last season he can’t handle 20 touches a game or he breaks down. This isn’t a top five offensive line either that will make holes so big that anyone can be successful rushing the ball. Doug Williams made a point to say the top priority this offseason was fixing the rushing game and unfortunately for all of us his choice is getting surgery Friday by Dr Andrews and gone. Something must be done to fix this and that something requires talented players not on the team now imo

 

 

I'm not going to discuss the rest, because I completely agree. But I don't think we can really bring anyone else in, unless it's a 53 man cut. I've just gone over who is avaliable, and outside of a couple guys, it's a graveyard. Orleans Darkwa is out there, but I'm pretty 'meh" on him. And that's really about it, unless you start looking at 30+ year old RB's that have have ACL injuries like Peterson and Charles.

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1 minute ago, bobandweave said:

Its really not. Robert Kelley is below average and Perine is a turn over machine, and Thompson proved last season he can’t handle 20 touches a game or he breaks down. This isn’t a top five offensive line either that will make holes so big that anyone can be successful rushing the ball. Doug Williams made a point to say the top priority this offseason was fixing the rushing game and unfortunately for all of us his choice is getting surgery Friday by Dr Andrews and gone. Something must be done to fix this and that something requires talented players not on the team now imo

 

Actually we don't know without consistent OL play.  When you are forced to use 20 different OL combinations and 4 different RB's the stats are skewed. Passing judgement based off of that isn't going to be accurate.  I'm not saying you're wrong or right or that there's enough info to make a case either way.  Rob Kelly as a rookie averaged 4.2 ypc on 168 attempts.  He got hurt and only played 7 games and had 62 attempts behind a make-shift OL in year 2.  You can't write him off based on year 2 and you can't discount his rookie season.  I see a lot of people coming to conclusions that don't add up to me with Rob.  

 

Perine has an issue holding onto the ball from the FAN'S perspective because we kind of only remember when he fumbles.  But, if you look at the statistics he's lost 2 fumbles in his Rookie season on 175 attempts.  That's 1 fumble for every 87.5 carries.  So, where does he stand in comparison with other RB's in this analysis....welll,,,,Jalen Richards (OAK) fumbled once every 7 carries.  That's a turn over machine!  Todd Gurley (LA) fumbled 5 times and once every 58 carries.  Alex Collins (BLT) fumbled 4 times and once every 53 carries.   So, Perine's rookie year, fumbling twice in 175 attempts is actually pretty good.  I have to admit I was wrong about this also and shared the perspective that he was fumbling way too often.  He definitely needs to protect the ball better and wrap it up in after contact.  

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It would be nice to have the lead and a run game capable of running out the clock. 3.6 vs 4.1YPC doesn't mean squat when it's 3rd and 2 late in the 4th quarter. I just don't think we have that guy right now. 

FWIW, I was drinking the Samaje-aid all last off-season and was excited about the possibilities. I hope to see SOMEONE re-ignite that flame over the next 3 weeks.

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32 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

Those are attempts at a little ribbing on my part. It's apparent through your posts that you put A LOT of stock in perception, media, lists, etc. Nothing wrong with that but I personally believe it can cause you to lose sight of how good a player like Trent Williams really is. How good Ryan Kerrigan really is. Again, clearly you are taking them as personal assaults so no more from me.

 

 

My perception of Ryan Kerrigan and Trent Williams has nothing to do with my point.  I haven't said a word about either one so you got me why they are part of this.  I love Kerrigan but do I think he's Fletcher Cox?  Nope.  

 

32 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

@Skinsinparadise

I was under the impression I was debating you about lowering us below the Cowboys/Giants because of the injury to a singular player. I attempted to bring up other parts of the roster as a means to substantiate my claim that doesn't seem like sound logic to me. But then you take that as me going round and round in circles about the same thing? Okkkkkkkkkkk then.

 

Where this started was Guice's injury.  You thought it was outlandish that I thought it was that much of a game changer.  However, I've posted tomes in both this thread and the draft thread for months this year about why the running game needs to be elevated and how critical it is to this team's success.  I was 100% consistent on that both on this thread and the draft thread. If you think I am over the top in my concern and I need to focus on all that happened in 2017 -- fine but to me its same old same old from other discussions with you.  I know plenty about what you think about the 2017 season.  And yeah believe it or not I digested the 2017 season and looked at our division rivals upgrades in the off season to land at my position.  I probably made 200 posts on the subject.  Maybe I am dead wrong.  But my position is not IMO in the you can't be serious category. 

 

I've on this thread and the draft thread gone into exhausting detail about what I want the FO to do in both FA and the draft.  And I am far from the only one who did it.  Heck lets take Scandrick -- who was the dude who talked about his attitude issues in Dallas months ago and how would that work here -- that was me.    That's not to tout my own horn but just saying when it comes to Redskins players, new FAs, people we draft - I put a ton of thought into it.  Doesn't make me right. But I am not just throwing stuff against the wall.

 

But yeah I think I can judge Fletcher Cox versus Zach Brown or whomever.  I was talking about Zach Browns months before he joined the team.  My take on him isn't about watching Cox on ESPN highlights and doing apples to apples.  Nonetheless, thanks for the explanation about the ribbing. 

 

But your ribbing often is a variation of me being ridiculously misinformed.    Just saying part of the reason why I love this thread and the draft thread is a lot of good detail and discussion in them.  Some on both threads do a better job than me at it -- but I try to do my little part.  Right or wrong, I go to town on my want list for FA and the draft.   My position on upgrading the running position and run defense has been going on for years. 

 

And I'll give a shout out to Bobandweave on this point.  We've had our share of intense debates ourselves.  But I recall him in particular shouting for them to sign a veteran FA RB.  He's looking right on that front.   

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I would be fine to see the headlines that they are bringing in Charles and Peterson for a tryout. They have 14.5 million or there about in free cap now. The time to strike for one of those guys if they can be brought in is now not waiting until cuts or after failing with what they have and negotiating from a weakness, or panicking.

 

No action means something here. Either they are broke financially and can’t afford it. Or they are so in love with the idea of another Norman possibly happening again and not wanting to lose out. Or Jay Gruden is betting his job on the worst rb for a rating by DVOA for all RBs with over one hundred carries (47th place) and another one with a DVOA rating of -2.8. The choice to stay with that is happening for a reason. Or all those guys got called and they all said No who knows? my minds messed up about this decision to do nothing

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19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My perception of Ryan Kerrigan and Trent Williams has nothing to do with my point.  I haven't said a word about either one so you got me why they are part of this.  I love Kerrigan but do I think he's Fletcher Cox?  Nope.  

Because this:

 

Quote

But the reason why I am hung up on Thompson, J. Allen, Guice, J. Reed is they are IMO the Alphas in the mix.  And we need guys like that IMO to take that next step.  Thompson has said he's not going to be 100% until Nov.  Guice is out.  Reed is perpetually hurt.  So I got some skepticism that we can be any serious threat to playing in the big dance unless that changes.  So for me Guice wasn't just any player. 

 

Why no mention of Kerrigan, Trent, Scherff, Norman, etc. when talking about the rest of the team? Those guys are really good players man. Kerrigan KILLS the Eagles, their fans can't stand the guy. Just like we can't stand Cox. But agree to disagree, I guess they don't count when talking about how the TEAM is going to perform this year.

 

The rest of your post goes more into how I offended you. I am sorry, like I said no more jabs toward you.

 

For all of the talk about needing a running game to be successful, in 2016 6 of the 12 playoff teams were top ten in rushing. In 2015, 5 of the 12 playoff teams were top ten in rushing. In 2016, the Denver Broncos with the whopping 27th ranked rushing attack won the Super Bowl. In 2015, the New England Patriots finished 30th in rushing and won the Superbowl.

Edited by HardcoreZorn
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12 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Because this:

 

 

Why no mention of Kerrigan, Trent, Scherff, Norman, etc. when talking about the rest of the team? Those guys are really good players man. Kerrigan KILLS the Eagles, their fans can't stand the guy. Just like we can't stand Cox. But agree to disagree, I guess they don't count when talking about how the TEAM is going to perform this year.

 

The rest of your post goes more into how I offended you. I am sorry, like I said no more jabs toward you.

 

For all of the talk about needing a running game to be successful, in 2016 6 of the 12 playoff teams were top ten in rushing. In 2015, 5 of the 12 playoff teams were top ten in rushing. In 2016, the Denver Broncos with the whopping 27th ranked rushing attack won the Super Bowl. In 2015, the New England Patriots finished 30th in rushing and won the Superbowl.

 

Just a quick point on your bolded area, Those teams that won the SB had Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. I'm also pretty sure even our most "positive" fans don't think that Alex Smith is in their league.

 

I'll add, once you called @Skinsinparadise disingenuous, you pretty much lost all credibility as a poster. SiP has been here a long ****ing time, and he's been a really good poster, who backs up what he says for a long ****ing time. You don't have to agree, but when you call someone a liar for posting what they feel about a particular topic, you're shooting yourself in the foot. If you had been smart, you might have read that over before you posted it. Or apologized right after, and edited it, with the apology.

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57 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

 

Actually we don't know without consistent OL play.  When you are forced to use 20 different OL combinations and 4 different RB's the stats are skewed. Passing judgement based off of that isn't going to be accurate.  I'm not saying you're wrong or right or that there's enough info to make a case either way.  Rob Kelly as a rookie averaged 4.2 ypc on 168 attempts.  He got hurt and only played 7 games and had 62 attempts behind a make-shift OL in year 2.  You can't write him off based on year 2 and you can't discount his rookie season.  I see a lot of people coming to conclusions that don't add up to me with Rob.  

 

Well to me the injury consistency is already happening and that’s concerning so expecting a 16 game season by all them is impossible. It won’t be as bad that them having to start another player they had just signed the day before off the street but it will likely be a rocky road for us on the line again. I don’t blame the injuries on the offensive line either. It’s much bigger then that 

 

 

Quote

 

Perine has an issue holding onto the ball from the FAN'S perspective because we kind of only remember when he fumbles.  But, if you look at the statistics he's lost 2 fumbles in his Rookie season on 175 attempts.  That's 1 fumble for every 87.5 carries.  So, where does he stand in comparison with other RB's in this analysis....welll,,,,Jalen Richards (OAK) fumbled once every 7 carries.  That's a turn over machine!  Todd Gurley (LA) fumbled 5 times and once every 58 carries.  Alex Collins (BLT) fumbled 4 times and once every 53 carries.   So, Perine's rookie year, fumbling twice in 175 attempts is actually pretty good.  I have to admit I was wrong about this also and shared the perspective that he was fumbling way too often.  He definitely needs to protect the ball better and wrap it up in after contact.  

 

 

Last game he fumbled again. It was punched out again and RBs who fumble the ball a lot dont don’t get to run the ball in the NFL a lot. That costs a team games

 

I also didn’t see anything special out of him and that’s not just my opinion

 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/samaje-perine/

 

Not sold on him as the answer. He has elite speed but didn’t show he could use it last season very well. 

Edited by bobandweave

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I know that Robert Kelley is not who we wanted at rb, but was he that bad?????  He avg over 4 ypc as a rookie, was our leading rusher with only getting 20 rushes the first seven games.  Is he a top 10 rb NO, but I don't think he doesn't have vision as some say.   Matter of fact that's what he was scouted for, but he had a slow get off and being injured last year did not help with his get off and it affected his vision.  If he returns to form and is quicker as some have said he is capable of being a 1000 yard rusher.

 https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/94206590?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Famp.usatoday.com%2Famp%2F94206590%23referrer%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%26amp_tf%3DFrom%20%251%24s

 

http://www.pass2win.com/rob-kelley-rb-scouting-report.html

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53 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Just a quick point on your bolded area, Those teams that won the SB had Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. I'm also pretty sure even our most "positive" fans don't think that Alex Smith is in their league.

 

I'll add, once you called @Skinsinparadise disingenuous, you pretty much lost all credibility as a poster. SiP has been here a long ****ing time, and he's been a really good poster, who backs up what he says for a long ****ing time. You don't have to agree, but when you call someone a liar for posting what they feel about a particular topic, you're shooting yourself in the foot. If you had been smart, you might have read that over before you posted it. Or apologized right after, and edited it, with the apology.

Feel free to point out where I called SIP disingenuous or a liar.

 

Im very aware he's been here a long time, considering I've lurked on here for 10 years plus. Didn't realize that meant I couldn't engage in debate with some of his points. 

1 hour ago, bobandweave said:

I would be fine to see the headlines that they are bringing in Charles and Peterson for a tryout. They have 14.5 million or there about in free cap now. The time to strike for one of those guys if they can be brought in is now not waiting until cuts or after failing with what they have and negotiating from a weakness, or panicking.

 

No action means something here. Either they are broke financially and can’t afford it. Or they are so in love with the idea of another Norman possibly happening again and not wanting to lose out. Or Jay Gruden is betting his job on the worst rb for a rating by DVOA for all RBs with over one hundred carries (47th place) and another one with a DVOA rating of -2.8. The choice to stay with that is happening for a reason. Or all those guys got called and they all said No who knows? my minds messed up about this decision to do nothing

Charles and Peterson are washed.

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1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

I'll add, once you called @Skinsinparadise disingenuous, you pretty much lost all credibility as a poster. SiP has been here a long ****ing time, and he's been a really good poster, who backs up what he says for a long ****ing time. You don't have to agree, but when you call someone a liar for posting what they feel about a particular topic, you're shooting yourself in the foot. If you had been smart, you might have read that over before you posted it. Or apologized right after, and edited it, with the apology.

 

Appreciated the defense but that wasn't Hardcore Zorn on that front that was Sandy Monk.

 

Hardcore Zorn probably ironically more than most knows I am not shy about sharing an opinion bluntly. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Appreciated the defense but that wasn't Hardcore Zorn on that front that was Sandy Hook.

 

Hardcore Zorn probably ironically more than most knows I am not shy about sharing an opinion bluntly. 

 

My bad!

 

22 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Feel free to point out where I called SIP disingenuous or a liar.

 

Im very aware he's been here a long time, considering I've lurked on here for 10 years plus. Didn't realize that meant I couldn't engage in debate with some of his points. 

 

 Firstly, I apologize, I had you confused with another poster. I should have checked more thoroughly. Completely my mistake.

And, of course you can debate anyone.

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All good, brothers. 

 

By the way SIP, it's because of your great contributions to this board that I feel compelled to debate with you. I do truly disagree with some things you say, as do you on some of what I say. But just know, it's far more fun debating and talking skins football that actually knows what they are talking about. Just for the record.

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3 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

They had Walter Peyton one of the best RBs to ever play the game. Hardly helps your point 

 

 

Arguing that the very top rushing team didn’t win the super bowl is a meaningless argument. So is ignoring Walter Peyton’s greatness and so is Ignoring that there is a clear path to the playoffs today (9 out of the top 10 teams went to the playoffs and the third best team won the Super Bowl last season) just doesn’t compute with me. The proof that a good rushing team makes the playoffs is right there

 

 

Its really not. Robert Kelley is below average and Perine is a turn over machine, and Thompson proved last season he can’t handle 20 touches a game or he breaks down. This isn’t a top five offensive line either that will make holes so big that anyone can be successful rushing the ball. Doug Williams made a point to say the top priority this offseason was fixing the rushing game and unfortunately for all of us his choice is getting surgery Friday by Dr Andrews and gone. Something must be done to fix this and that something requires talented players not on the team now imo

 

 

I was going to ask you about other years but it’s already been answered. See above. 

 

Pointing to N=1 for an argument is clearly flawed. The trend has been less than 50% of the top running teams go to the playoffs. 

 

So your argument of “oh yeah you can’t get to the Super Bowl if you’re not in the playoffs” is valid, but modern history tells us you have a better chance of making the playoffs when you’re not in the top 10 in rushing. 

 

You guys are too easy sometimes. 

 

And where did I discount Peyton?

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15 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

I think Roullier might be a steal, I liked his nasty streak and his ability to move coming out. I didn't like that he got thrown in last year, because I think hes got growing to do, mentally as well as physically. But, that all should help this year. I really like Morgan in Pass pro, but I think he's underwhelming at best in run blocking. He is not nasty. I wish he would take a chapter out of the Brandon Scherff book on being nasty.

 

I wish every OL on the Redskins could do that. 

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14 hours ago, TheShredder said:

As far as the running game goes.  They only need to improve by 1 yard per carry avg.  That's one step.  Carry 5 more times per game on average and get one more step forward in the right direction and it's a top 10 rushing team.  Any of the RBs on the roster are capable of getting 4 steps forward on any given carry when there's a hole to run through.  Sufficient improvement is about the OL (#1 health) and Play Calling. $.02 

 

19 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

I looked at which OL unit started (or played the majority of the game) and YPC. There were basically two OLs last year - the "real" one and the "other" one. The real one had TW, Lauvao, Long or Roullier, The Scherff and Moses as starters and as guys who played >90% of snaps in a game. There were 8 games with the real OL: Philly (twice), Rams, Raiders, KC, SF, Vikings and Saints. The "other" OL included Moses (he started all 16), Roullier, Nsekhe, Catalina, Clemmings, Bergstrom and Kujo as starters. They played Dallas (twice), Seattle, Giants (twice), Chargers, Cardinals and Denver.

 

Looking only at YPC, which is a decent way to thumbnail OL effectiveness (unless you have a great RB), our overall team YPC was 3.6 which put us tied for 29th with the Bungles. If you look at the "real" OL, they averaged 4.1 YPC - good enough to lift the team from 29th to 14-19th. Looking at the "other" OL they had 3.0 YPC which would put them dead last in the NFL (lowest was 3.4).

 

That's a delta of 1.1 YPC. I don't think it's very realistic, but certainly the potential is there.

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12 hours ago, dckey said:

I know that Robert Kelley is not who we wanted at rb, but was he that bad?????  He avg over 4 ypc as a rookie, was our leading rusher with only getting 20 rushes the first seven games.  Is he a top 10 rb NO, but I don't think he doesn't have vision as some say.   Matter of fact that's what he was scouted for, but he had a slow get off and being injured last year did not help with his get off and it affected his vision.  If he returns to form and is quicker as some have said he is capable of being a 1000 yard rusher.

 https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/94206590?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Famp.usatoday.com%2Famp%2F94206590%23referrer%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%26amp_tf%3DFrom%20%251%24s

 

http://www.pass2win.com/rob-kelley-rb-scouting-report.html

 

Going simply by a couple of points

 

1. Doug Williams comments about the situation 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/doug-williams-gets-very-honest-when-talking-about-running-back-upgrade

 

2. They used their second round pick on this position

 

I think the answer to the bolded is they thought so so yes

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9 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

I was going to ask you about other years but it’s already been answered. See above. 

 

Pointing to N=1 for an argument is clearly flawed. The trend has been less than 50% of the top running teams go to the playoffs. 

 

So your argument of “oh yeah you can’t get to the Super Bowl if you’re not in the playoffs” is valid, but modern history tells us you have a better chance of making the playoffs when you’re not in the top 10 in rushing

 

You guys are too easy sometimes. 

 

Is it now? The truth broken down for you is below

 

2017 Playoff Teams

New England Patriots
Philadelphia Eagles
Pittsburgh Steelers
Minnesota Vikings
Jacksonville Jaguars
Los Angeles Rams
Kansas City Chiefs
New Orleans Saints
Tennessee Titans
Carolina Panthers
Buffalo Bills
Atlanta Falcons
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?lg=NFL&yr=2017&type=reg&cat=R&group=O&conf=

 

11 out the 12 teams to make the playoffs last season were in the NFL's top 16 teams for rushing last season

 

2016 Playoff Teams

Atlanta Falcons
Dallas Cowboys
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Houston Texans
Kansas City Chiefs
Miami Dolphins
New England Patriots
New York Giants
Oakland Raiders
Pittsburgh Steelers
Seattle Seahawks
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?lg=NFL&yr=2016&type=reg&cat=R&group=O&conf=

 

8 out of the 12 teams to make the playoffs were in the NFL's top 16 teams for rushing that season

 

2015 Playoff Teams

Arizona Cardinals
Carolina Panthers
Cincinnati Bengals
Denver Broncos
Green Bay Packers
Houston Texans
Kansas City Chiefs
Minnesota Vikings
New England Patriots
Pittsburgh Steelers
Seattle Seahawks
Washington Redskins
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?lg=NFL&yr=2015&type=reg&cat=R&group=O&conf=

 

8 out of the 12 teams to make the playoffs were in the NFL's top 16 teams for rushing that season

 

In the past three seasons of the 36 total Playoff Teams only 9 of the teams were not a top half rushing team. That means that if your team does not end up as a top half of the league rushing team that team has only a 25% chance of making the playoffs. The trend here is not what you think it is. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

And where did I discount Peyton?

 

When you said this 


Right that wasn't my question though.  I'll answer the question.  It was 32 years ago.  The Chicago Bears.  And I think most would agree the Defense was the main reason they won.

 

The 85 Bears Defense was amazing no doubt but Walter Payton was third in the league that season in rushing yards (you said he was first), when he averaged 96.9 rushing yards that season. Saying the 85 Bears main reason for winning was the Defense to me is discrediting the contributions Sweetness gave that team that season. That team went 15-1 and that wasn't only because of the Defense. According to quarterback Jim McMahon the QB of that team Walter Peyton was targeted by two or three defenders on every single play, and others stated that Payton's mere presence allowed others to shine. Walter Payton was a huge part of that 85 team to me and why they were so good. 

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24 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Is it now? The truth broken down for you is below

 

2017 Playoff Teams

New England Patriots
Philadelphia Eagles
Pittsburgh Steelers
Minnesota Vikings
Jacksonville Jaguars
Los Angeles Rams
Kansas City Chiefs
New Orleans Saints
Tennessee Titans
Carolina Panthers
Buffalo Bills
Atlanta Falcons
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?lg=NFL&yr=2017&type=reg&cat=R&group=O&conf=

 

11 out the 12 teams to make the playoffs last season were in the NFL's top 16 teams for rushing last season

 

2016 Playoff Teams

Atlanta Falcons
Dallas Cowboys
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Houston Texans
Kansas City Chiefs
Miami Dolphins
New England Patriots
New York Giants
Oakland Raiders
Pittsburgh Steelers
Seattle Seahawks
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?lg=NFL&yr=2016&type=reg&cat=R&group=O&conf=

 

8 out of the 12 teams to make the playoffs were in the NFL's top 16 teams for rushing that season

 

2015 Playoff Teams

Arizona Cardinals
Carolina Panthers
Cincinnati Bengals
Denver Broncos
Green Bay Packers
Houston Texans
Kansas City Chiefs
Minnesota Vikings
New England Patriots
Pittsburgh Steelers
Seattle Seahawks
Washington Redskins
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?lg=NFL&yr=2015&type=reg&cat=R&group=O&conf=

 

8 out of the 12 teams to make the playoffs were in the NFL's top 16 teams for rushing that season

 

In the past three seasons of the 36 total Playoff Teams only 9 of the teams were not a top half rushing team. That means that if your team does not end up as a top half of the league rushing team that team has only a 25% chance of making the playoffs. The trend here is not what you think it is. 

 

 

 

When you said this 

 

 

 

The 85 Bears Defense was amazing no doubt but Walter Payton was third in the league that season in rushing yards (you said he was first), when he averaged 96.9 rushing yards that season. Saying the 85 Bears main reason for winning was the Defense to me is discrediting the contributions Sweetness gave that team that season. That team went 15-1 and that wasn't only because of the Defense. According to quarterback Jim McMahon the QB of that team Walter Peyton was targeted by two or three defenders on every single play, and others stated that Payton's mere presence allowed others to shine. Walter Payton was a huge part of that 85 team to me and why they were so good. 

 

 

Well now you’ve changed the goal posts. You went from top ten to top 16. Even then it’s not 100%. It’s only disproving your point more.  Take away last year and it seems there’s a 66% chance of making the playoffs if a team is in the top 1/2 of rushing. Hardly something to hang your hat on. 

 

Now comes the the question of correlation vs causation.   The simple truth is most winning teams end up higher in these ranking because they are successful. Hence the winning. Or put another way, if the Redskins ran the ball on every play with the simple goal to be top 16 in rushing, and ended up 3rd overall, would they be in the playoffs?  

 

And using your last three years, two of the Super Bowl champions were bottom 1/3.  Again, there are too many other variables. 

 

 

Where did I say Peyton was first in the league?  Just making stuff up now. 

 

The 2000 Baltimore Ravens won the Super Bowl because?

 

Edited by Master Blaster

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To summarize:

 

 

(edit - I dont mean to imply anyone here is a "stupid guard", I enjoyed reading the back and forth discussion .. it just seems to me you are saying almost the same thing, just getting hung up on a word or semantic. We all agree that a top 15 run game increases chances of playoffs, just dont agree on whether we need to add a RB or stay put .... and whether you need a stud running back ... and whether walter peyton was top1 or just top 3 .... and whether the bears '85 defense gets monster share of credit vs peyton ... and whether we should only consider top 10 to top 16 .... and of course we cant forget about "correlation vs causation", I mean winning teams do run the ball more but do they run to win it or are they just running it bc they are winning?)

 

 

Edited by Why am I Mr. Pink?
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20 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

Right that wasn't my question though.  I'll answer the question.  It was 32 years ago.  The Chicago Bears.  And I think most would agree the Defense was the main reason they won.

 

The point being an amazing running game isn't needed in today's game.  Adequate will suffice.  As one poster pointed out the Redskin's YPC when healthy last year was middle of the pack. 

 

IF the offense can stay healthy this is  a 10-15 rated running game in the NFL.  That's good enough for the team to make noise.

 

Time to shoot this down.

Their defense was very good. Maybe the best ever.

 

However........ they had A LOT OF HELP

 

Walter Payton had 1551 yards rushing at 4.8 ypc. At age 31. Lets not MARGINALIZE what Walter Payton did that year.  Walter had a GREAT year. He also had nearly 500 yards receiving, giving him just over 2000 yards in total offense. And he was All Pro that year, the best RB in football. The Bears were number 1 in every rushing catagory that year, except ypc. Yards, TD's Attemps. The team had 2761 yards rushing. Basically, they ran the ball over people. For context, last year we had as a team 1441, a little more than half. That is how dominate the Bears running game was.

 

Let's not pretend that the Bears were a great defense, and nothing else.

 

This pretty much disproves your point.

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