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    • By JimmiJo in ES Coverage
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      ES Coverage: Giants vs Redskins 
       
      12/9/18
       
      DEFEAT!!!
       
      Giants 40 - Redskins 16
       
      Greetings friends, JimmiJo here, and I am joined by my shivering partner, Spaceman Spiff. Together we will bring you this all important NFC East divisional matchup between the Washington Redskins and New York Giants.
       
      When I was last with you the Redskins had command of the division and there was optimism to spare. Since, devastating injuries to quarterbacks, linemen, and cornerbacks has left this team losers in 4-of-5 contests.
       
      But there is still everything to play for, and if they can manage a victory today and the Eagles to the same Washington will once again have a share of the lead.
       
      I can dream can't I?
       
      On paper, the future looks grim. A continued collapse will start the questions about the future of personnel and perhaps leadership. Yes, we can certainly point to injuries as the primary reason the team is struggling. But the record earlier in the year was masking some issues with the squad. No real arial threat. An inconsistent running game. And a defense that has been anything but consistent.
       
      But these are questions for another time. Today, it is just two teams looking for a win.
       
      See you at the half.
       
      Follow along on Twitter @Skinscast 
       
      Inactives
       
      The Redskins declared the following players as inactive:
      o   No. 12 QB Colt McCoy
      o   No. 32 RB Samaje Perine
      o   No. 46 RB Kapri Bibbs
      o   No. 52 LB Ryan Anderson
      o   No. 63 C Demetrius Rhaney
      o   No. 66 G Tony Bergstrom
      o   No. 99 DL Caleb Brantley
       
      JimmiJo
       
      I was happy to see players like Josh Johnson and Byron Marshall in the game. The marquee guys did not earn the right to play following the disastrous first half. It was historically bad.
       
      Never before had the Washington Redskins trailed by as much as the 34-0 deficit they entertained today at the half.
       
      I remarked to one of the writers that in 13-seasons I had never seen this team so outplayed as today. The offense led by Mark Sanchez was throw-up in mouth bad. At no point did you feel like they would or could score.
       
      I tweeted before the game that it is time for Daniel Snyder to replaced head coach Jay Gruden. Yes injuries are the headline. But the offense was poor before the injuries.
       
      No aerial threat and an inconsistent rushing. They only seemed to score 20-points per game.
       
      What they did do well was hold on to the ball. And the defense was a takeover machine the first half of the year.
      But turnovers tend to even out.
       
      So I was more than glad to see those ‘backups’ play. All they did was show they should have been playing in the first half.
       
      Especially Johnson. Take a look at your Redskins’ starter the rest of the way. From his first snap the offense looked different. There was energy. There was life.
       
      And there was threat.
       
      Johnson played with more command, accuracy and imagination than Mark Sanchez. He looked much more the accomplished quarterback.
       
      A word on Josh Doctson. You are an idiot. Without the stupid penalty you are not letting the safety out-position you to make the pick with 5-minutes left.
       
      Following this game, staring at the standings and considering possible scenarios for getting in the playoffs is fools’ gold. It is all about assessing who it worth keeping for next year.
       
      I don’t believe head coach Jay Gruden is going to make the list. Nor should he. He has had nore than enough time to do something here. He had Kirk Cousins’ starting over 3-full seasons.
       
      He had his chance.
       
      I tweeted before the game team owner Daniel Snyder should let Gruden go and bring in Mike McCarthy. Washington Post writer (and friend) Rick Snider made a great counterpoint to that idea:
       
      “Why would McCarthy want to come here? He has better options,” he said.
       
      That sure feels like the truth. And if so, it may explain why Gruden is fast becoming one of the most tenured coaches in the league.
       
      This was my last game for this season. I would like to thank Extremeskins and the team for the opportunity this year. I will see you guys next year.
       
      Let me go on the record now and say I do not think Jay Gruden's position here is secure. Not with the likes of Mike McCarthy available.
DC9

2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

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2 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Best CB - Regardless of if I'm saying he's gone or not gone I'm not advocating that he go anywhere. The word is out there that he is not happy, wants to win a championship, has some beef with the team he is going to air in the off season, and can opt out at his own choosing. Not sure why you blame me for speaking about this but that's the way it is

 

Best TE/Offensive Weapon - Reed is likely one hit to the head away from retirement, is owed 10 million next season if he's here making him the third highest paid TE in the league, has missed an entire seasons worth of games the past three seasons combined. Relying on Reed being available has been a foolish errand and your best paid skilled position player needs to be counted on. The difference between Gronk and Reed is as wide as the Grand Canyon. They are not the same player and Gronk's helped the Patriots win a Superbowl. There is no reason to continue to anchor ourselves to this unfortunate situation longer then we have to

 

Record Holding QB - Whether you or I want Cousins to stay here he holds all the leverage to do that. He's clearly shown unwilling to sign a long term deal with this franchise. This is the absolute last season where we can force him to stay and next off season is free to go elsewhere which is his desire. At the cost of 30+ million dollars its better to just move on from him now and accept he is never going to cut a home town discount to play here and admit that while he is good he is far from great and not worth top 5 money. Records are meant to be broken and do not represent the only important thing - Winning. The team forced him to prove he was worth such an expensive contract and he's failed to do that never leading them to a single playoff win or championship. The team found this player in the draft and before we fire the head coach we have no idea what he could do with another QB and he deserves the chance to show everyone if he can find someone to do that before we are stuck next off season in a position of being forced to move on like it or not. We could trade Cousins knowing he won't be resigned for something or risk losing him for nothing in a years time when even if he does stay one more season no one thinks will be competing for the Superbowl

 

TE2/TE1 - The man is old, 34 years old. The man plays one aspect of this dual aspect position. He is not a good blocker nor will he stretch out to make the tough catch. No position in the NFL besides QB and Kicker should any team look to build around players aged 30 and older. His skills are diminishing and will get worse as time goes on.

 

Yes I'm speaking about these four men and moving on from them. They are all in situations where the team likely finds themselves without those players in a years time whether or not we like that. Age keeps going, no ones beating father time. Opt outs are Opt outs. Concussions are a sad reality to playing in the NFL, and times run out on forcing people to play for the team that just don't want to anymore. If that's a blow up you can get behind blowing it up now or just wait until it happens but it's going to happen regardless. 

 

Norman - You had Norman on YOUR list.  If you want him to stay/don't care, then take him off YOUR list.  If you THINK he's going that's another story, but he's on the list you provided the thread for who you'd get rid off.

 

Cuzzo - I'd suspect Cuzzo will stay and it will be reasonable.  My reasons aren't entirely sound, but they basically come down to the 9ers trading for Jimmy G and the fact that he's wearing Redskins gear in almost all of his tweets, which he wasn't this time last year.  I understand everyone saying "No QB has made X and won a Super Bowl," but I'll counter that with "No team without a QB has won a Super Bowl in over 15 years" at this point.  We need one, we have one, we have to lock him down.

 

Reed - You don't think Reed would've helped Tom Brady's Pats win a Super Bowl?  There is not a "Grand Canyon" there unless you are looking at who is throwing them the passes.  What do you think we'd get for trading Reed?  What do you do with it?  I'd say BEST case scenario you're looking at a 5th round pick.  That's if you catch someone who is drunk at the right time of the offseason.  Wasn't Robert Davis a 5th round pick?  He just came up from the practice squad.

 

Davis - So no NFL team should build around a 30 plus year old QB?  Again, I won't be bothered if Davis is brought back again.  He's supposed to be a TE2 and is a good one.  And again, again, just because he's 34 doesn't mean he won't be better than a 25 year old we bring in.  I'm not assed about Davis either way I'm just confused with your thought process on a lot of these proposals you're making.

 

I'm trying to understand.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, DC9 said:

You're talking about getting rid of your best CB, your best TE/Offensive weapon, your franchise record holding QB, and your TE2/TE1 for most of the season.

 

Yes, that's blowing the team up.

 

Why?  Cause in all likelihood, you're completely changing the style with which we play.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's blowing up the team.

I wouldn't get rid of Cousins or Norman.  

 

But I'd let Reed and Davis go.  Here's why:

 

1. Reed: Availability and blocking.  He has a track record of not being available, and he has a track record of not being a competent blocker, either in pass pro or run blocking. What I MIGHT do with Reed is consider "officially" flipping him to WR, He can't block or set the edge on the outside.  I don't question the effort, but he's actively bad at it, and Cooley CRUSHES him in the film breakdowns on it constantly.  

 

2.  Davis: Lack of desire for contact, inability and absolutely no desire to block, and no desire to lay out for balls.  He's got speed and a bit of wiggle, but he does exactly 1 thing. 

 

In my opinion, if this team wants to take a step forward and be a real contender, they need to fix the running game.  To fix the run game, you have to have players outside the OL that can block.  Crowder can't.  Reed can't.  Davis can't.  

 

If the priority is fixing the run game, and I think it should be a significant priority, then you have to look at the group as a whole.  I think you need 2 new WRs, a new RB and a new TE.  I know, that's "blowing up" a lot of the offense, but we have 3 years of evidence that we cannot run the ball worth a damn with Reed/Davis/Crowder as players on the field the same time.  You gotta make changes.  I keep Crowder, let the TEs go.

 

There are other ways of doing it, but that's the way I would go about it.  It also just ticks me off when TEs are not good blockers.  It's part of their job. 

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.  We've seen what Reed/Davis bring us. Time to change it up.  Draft that guy from Wisconsin.  

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7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I wouldn't get rid of Cousins or Norman.  

 

But I'd let Reed and Davis go.  Here's why:

 

1. Reed: Availability and blocking.  He has a track record of not being available, and he has a track record of not being a competent blocker, either in pass pro or run blocking. What I MIGHT do with Reed is consider "officially" flipping him to WR, He can't block or set the edge on the outside.  I don't question the effort, but he's actively bad at it, and Cooley CRUSHES him in the film breakdowns on it constantly.  

 

2.  Davis: Lack of desire for contact, inability and absolutely no desire to block, and no desire to lay out for balls.  He's got speed and a bit of wiggle, but he does exactly 1 thing. 

 

In my opinion, if this team wants to take a step forward and be a real contender, they need to fix the running game.  To fix the run game, you have to have players outside the OL that can block.  Crowder can't.  Reed can't.  Davis can't.  

 

If the priority is fixing the run game, and I think it should be a significant priority, then you have to look at the group as a whole.  I think you need 2 new WRs, a new RB and a new TE.  I know, that's "blowing up" a lot of the offense, but we have 3 years of evidence that we cannot run the ball worth a damn with Reed/Davis/Crowder as players on the field the same time.  You gotta make changes.  I keep Crowder, let the TEs go.

 

There are other ways of doing it, but that's the way I would go about it.  It also just ticks me off when TEs are not good blockers.  It's part of their job. 

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.  We've seen what Reed/Davis bring us. Time to change it up.  Draft that guy from Wisconsin.  

 

I guess I don't see the lack of desire when it comes to Davis, but both you and bobandweave say that there is one so maybe I'm just missing it.  Now, to be honest, I'm between my two houses right now and haven't had a ton of time to dedicate to local DC media, but I guess I'm just not seeing it during the games.  I think he's a cheap weapon that can be very good.  I certainly wouldn't want him as the TE1 but we could do a lot worse than him at TE2.

 

I have no problems getting rid of Reed, but my concern is who replaces him?  You have three NFL caliber passing weapons on the roster right now, three and a half if you count Doctson (CT, Crowder, Reed).  Everyone else is just a guy.  You all seem very willing to get rid of one of the top 3 TEs in the game because of availability and money without having a back up plan.  You saw what Cousins has done the last couple of years with decent WRs (DJax and Garcon are both decent, they're not great) and then what he's been able to do with crap... I don't know.  For me, when he's healthy, he's just too good to get rid of at the moment.  I'd give him one more year.

 

 

As far as building the team goes.  I've always been a dude that LOVES defense.  I'd build a team that was built around teams and defense and hire a coordinator that could **** out 17-20 points a game.  Hopefully we are headed that way cause we can get there this year with the right moves.

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29 minutes ago, DC9 said:

I have no problems getting rid of Reed, but my concern is who replaces him?  You have three NFL caliber passing weapons on the roster right now, three and a half if you count Doctson (CT, Crowder, Reed).  Everyone else is just a guy.  You all seem very willing to get rid of one of the top 3 TEs in the game because of availability and money without having a back up plan.  You saw what Cousins has done the last couple of years with decent WRs (DJax and Garcon are both decent, they're not great) and then what he's been able to do with crap... I don't know.  For me, when he's healthy, he's just too good to get rid of at the moment.  I'd give him one more year.

 

"Just a guys" are NFL caliber players. 

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Re-sign Cousins is top priority. PAY THE MAN! He's improved again this year, especially red zone and off schedule plays which were the big points of criticism for hi last season, and done so with less o offense this year than years prior.

 

Definitely sign Zach Brown long-term.

 

The rest all depends on who will sign for reasonable amounts and who is out there in free agency and it also depends on your perceptions of the roster. I for one feel that if the team stays healthy the roster is one that can take us far with just a few more additions through free agency and draft, namely NT, WR, OL depth, TE, RB, and safety depth.

 

So I'm all for re-signing Foster and Breeland.

 

I'd like a free agent RB like Hyde or Crowell or McKinnon, but I think Gruden is committed to Perine. With Tompson coming back, I'd look to add a veteran RB to push Kelley and others in camp, and possibly beat them out. Myabe bring back Alfred Morris?

 

WR I'd want an established vet who can pick-up a timing offense right away to complement Doctson and can be had at a reasonable cost. Marqis Lee or Mike Wallace could fit this. We know Grant will come back. We also have Harris. Crowder has the slot so let all the others contribute on the outside and keep developing. I'd definitely like Allen Robinson but feel he'll command big money and we shouldn't commit that there. Let our youngs guys keep developing.

 

TE I'm ready to move on from Vernon Davis. Let him come to camp but draft or sign a pass catcher to challenge. Luke Willson or Sefarian-Jenkins would be good and low-cost.

 

OL I think we've been doing good acquiring depth and we should keep doing what we're doing there. Don't need Long back unless it is on the cheap. 

 

NT team needs to go after Poe or Logan. Back the truck up. Get them here. Combined with Allen, Io, and now Lanier, that DL becomes elite and our D absolutely can become a top 10 unit that way, whether our DC stays Mnusky or Gruden switches to Guenther. This position needs to be our top priority in free agency after we re-sign our own.

 

LBer I think we can re-sign Murphy cheap and if he stays healthy it will be a steal. Vigil has stepped up, so has Spaight. Excellent depth behind Brown and Foster. If Foster won't re-sign at relatively low-cost then let him walk because I think Vigil or Spaight can step in to his role. 

There's plenty of decent quality ILB depth hitting free agency to where we don't need to break the bank for Foster.

 

CB if we let Breeland walk then elevate Fuller to outside, let Moreau take over slot, or even vice versa. Maybe sign a depth vet for the outside also. I'd prefer we re-sign Breeland because he, Norman, and Fuller can become a top 10 trio. But with KC, Brown, and NT contracts it may not be doable. 

 

Safety I like Swerainger and Nicholson. Just add depth.

 

Whatever we don't get through free agency, that positoon becomes the priority in the draft. 

 

Biggest thing this offseason is Gruden absolutely MUST fire the majority of the strength and conditioning crew and hire guys with extensive, proven track records to take over. If he has another mediocre season because of excessive injuries and it's due in part to him not revamping that crew, he's gone. 

 

With good health this roster currently isn't far off. KC, Zach Brown, a top NT, and a vet "tier 2" WR are all added and we stay healthy and add depth, that's a playoff team that can make noise IMO.

 

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Me neither, can't see more than one high end starter coming in via FA, I'd go DT ideally. I'd look to spend ~75% of our available space re-signing our own guys.

 

I think free agency will be very underwhelming and based on the looks of who is potentially available that's not a bad thing.

Agree with all of that except for the DT thing.  Rather not pay a high end starter when we have Ioannidas and Allen.  If you meant DE (for our base D), I could get on board with that (though our track record there... ugh).  I do want to add an impact DT that can backup/sub our starters though.  I think the draft is the way to go there.  

 

Even if we bring back Long, we don’t have a viable starter at LG.  Since I’d rather not go into the draft with such a big need, that’s the spot I’d look at for a higher tier FA.  If we have the money, a pretty good receiver would be another option.  Just my opinion of course.  

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Strong feeling the Jets walk away from Muhammad Wilkerson...

 

Jets coach Todd Bowles said DE Muhammad Wilkerson has "served his sentence" after being suspended for Week 15 against the Saints.

Wilkerson didn't make the trip to New Orleans last weekend after showing up late to a team meeting. There was speculation that Wilkerson could be done with the Jets, but it appears Bowles has moved on from last week's drama. Even if Wilkerson plays out the stretch, he's a long shot to be back in East Rutherford next year.
 
 
Dec 20 - 4:07 PM
 
 
Even with his issues, he'd become a priority free agent...
 
 

According to the New York Daily News' Manish Mehta, the Jets and contract-year DL Sheldon Richardson are interested in a reunion.

The Jets got rid of the wrong lineman, choosing Muhammad Wilkerson over Richardson, and they now have a chance to right that wrong in the offseason. Wilkerson is a lock to be cut, and Richardson will be a free agent who reportedly never wanted to leave New York in the first place. The Jets got Jermaine Kearse and a 2018 second-rounder from Seattle for Richardson back in September. It could be a huge win on all fronts for GM Mike Maccagnan. Richardson has just one sack for Seattle but has been a force when on the field.
Dec 20 - 11:51 AM
Edited by SemperFi Skins

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43 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Strong feeling the Jets walk away from Muhammad Wilkerson...

 

Just saw this tweet about him...  Going to assume the Jets beat writer knows more about the guy's attitude than most...  And assuming he's correct, I'd pass on him no matter how much talent he has..

 

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1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Agree with all of that except for the DT thing.  Rather not pay a high end starter when we have Ioannidas and Allen.  If you meant DE (for our base D), I could get on board with that (though our track record there... ugh).  I do want to add an impact DT that can backup/sub our starters though.  I think the draft is the way to go there.  

 

Even if we bring back Long, we don’t have a viable starter at LG.  Since I’d rather not go into the draft with such a big need, that’s the spot I’d look at for a higher tier FA.  If we have the money, a pretty good receiver would be another option.  Just my opinion of course.  

 

Logan in on the DL would be my choice. Can't see much help at OG other than Norwell, can't see us paying him when Scherff has a 50mil+ deal looming large around the corner. 

 

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3 hours ago, carex said:

 

"Just a guys" are NFL caliber players. 

 

Yeah, you're right.  But when you have Crowder, who can only play the slot, and guys like Ryan Grant and Mo Harris as your WR1 then there is a problem.

 

They are fine to fill out the roster in the WR5 or WR6 role, but when they're running 1 and 2 routes it's a miracle that we're in position to finish the season at .500 when you couple that with all of the injuries we have.

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Logan in on the DL would be my choice. Can't see much help at OG other than Norwell, can't see us paying him when Scherff has a 50mil+ deal looming large around the corner. 

 

 

That would be a great grab.  Most of us wanted him this year.  Would be a great rotation with Allen and the Greek.  Would also allow us to grab another defensive playmaker in round 1 (McMillon would be my choice, or a Safety - something up the middle).

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2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Agree with all of that except for the DT thing.  Rather not pay a high end starter when we have Ioannidas and Allen.  If you meant DE (for our base D), I could get on board with that (though our track record there... ugh).  I do want to add an impact DT that can backup/sub our starters though.  I think the draft is the way to go there.  

 

Even if we bring back Long, we don’t have a viable starter at LG.  Since I’d rather not go into the draft with such a big need, that’s the spot I’d look at for a higher tier FA.  If we have the money, a pretty good receiver would be another option.  Just my opinion of course.  

 

Quick question - how did having Ioannidas and Allen pan out for us when they both went down?

 

You have to have a strong rotation these days.  It's the modern NFL.  There should've been no reason the Greek had to play with a club on his hand in order for us to have competency in the middle (Ziggy Hood was trash).

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3 hours ago, elkabong82 said:

With good health this roster currently isn't far off. KC, Zach Brown, a top NT, and a vet "tier 2" WR are all added and we stay healthy and add depth, that's a playoff team that can make noise IMO.

 

Make noise, probably. Compete to win a championship? Probably not.  Do what you're saying above, but add "clear #1 WR" and a stud RB (through the draft), and probably another TE who can both block and catch (that guy from Wisconsin Cooley raves about), now you're getting somewhere.  Offensively, they've got to be able to stretch the field vertically on the outside, which they just can't do at all with their current players.  Crowder is a complimentary piece, not a guy who can really force defenses to adjust to him.  Reed can, but he's only available 8-10 games a year, and having him on the field a significant liability in the run game.  

 

You really need a bunch of help at the skill positions.  Which I think they can get.  

 

Put it this way, if you had 2016's offense combined with early season defense 2017 defense (before injuries) you'd be contending for a championship.  At least in my opinion. 

 

In order to get back to the 2016 offense, you need 2 WRs and a better running game, which means fiddling with RB and TE.  It's a lot, but it's worth it.  

7 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

Quick question - how did having Ioannidas and Allen pan out for us when they both went down?

 

You have to have a strong rotation these days.  It's the modern NFL.  There should've been no reason the Greek had to play with a club on his hand in order for us to have competency in the middle (Ziggy Hood was trash).

I agree to an extent, but few teams can suffer injuries to both of their starting DTs and not have it impact them.  The defense was "ok" after Allen went out but when Matt was still healthy.  They really lost steam when they were both out, and Matt still fully recovered.  

 

Tough to lose 2 starters at the same position.  

 

That said, I'm all in favor of signing impact DL all day long.  You can never have enough.  But you only have so much money to throw around...  

 

Agree on Hood.  

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16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I agree to an extent, but few teams can suffer injuries to both of their starting DTs and not have it impact them.  The defense was "ok" after Allen went out but when Matt was still healthy.  They really lost steam when they were both out, and Matt still fully recovered.  

 

Tough to lose 2 starters at the same position.  

 

That said, I'm all in favor of signing impact DL all day long.  You can never have enough.  But you only have so much money to throw around...  

 

Agree on Hood.  

 

Allen is a time bomb (though hopefully we get 5-6 years out of him) and the Greek is a 5th round pick.  Both are on rookie money for a few more years.

 

We can spend it there.

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Kirk Cousins - Clearly the top priority signing, if they don't get the Cousins deal done we are probably facing a complete restart. Pay this man!
Terrelle Pryor - What a disappointment. Great we only signed him for 1 year. Let him walk.

Shawn Lauvao - Weak spot on the offensive line. Let him walk.
DeAngelo Hall - Thanks for everything but it's more than time to move on

Zach Brown - After Cousins priority #2. Must be resigned

Niles Paul - Let him walk

Will Compton - Let him walk

Mason Foster - Would like to see him resigned for a reasonable price

Trent Murphy - Would like to see him resigned for a reasonable price which could be possible due to his PED suspension
Arthur Jones - Let him walk

Chris Carter - Can be resigned for depth reasons if he is available cheap

Brian Quick - Let him walk
Junior Galette - If we sign Trent Murphy I would let him walk. If not, I might resign him when he is available for a reasonable price

Tony Bergstrom - Let him walk

Phil Taylor - I'd like to see him resigned. Looked good in the preseason and will probably not cost a lot. Downside is small, upside is big.

Spencer Long - I would like to resign him but for a backup role and backup money only. Was never a big fan of him as a starter. Prefer Roullier at Center and a new solution at LG.

Bashaud Breeland  - I really, really like Breeland. Problem is, he might be too expensive to keep with the holes we have on the roster. Since they drafted Moreau last year, I expect them to let him walk. Anyways, if he is available for reasonable money, please sign him. Otherwise let him go.
Ryan Grant - Can be resigned for reasonable money but not a priority

Dustin Hopkins - Since we let go of Nick Rose, we more or less have to resign him. But I would bring in a Kicker to compete with him in training camp.

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5 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

Quick question - how did having Ioannidas and Allen pan out for us when they both went down?

 

You have to have a strong rotation these days.  It's the modern NFL.  There should've been no reason the Greek had to play with a club on his hand in order for us to have competency in the middle (Ziggy Hood was trash).

Yeah, I’ve been saying we need a guy to rotate there (wheels really fell off didn’t they?) and I’d be happy to look for one in the 1st round again.  

 

My personal choice would be to look at FA for positions we don’t have any viable starters (because I agree we won’t be bringing in many at all).  So receiver and G are my top two.  Certainly won’t hear me complaining if we add a good DT in FA - upgrading/bolstering the dline is crucial to pair with this secondary and OLBs - just not my top choice.  

 

Now if Cousins walks (ugh), then I’d be all over it.  Get a DT, LG, receiver (or two), a back, a safety... and maybe more.  Upgrade as much as we can while continuing to hit the draft.  

 

@DC9 @Voice_of_Reason I’m torn on the TE scenario, so I kind of split the difference. Draft a TE early that is pretty well rounded, keep Davis and Reed (and Sprinkle), and cut Paul.  

 

Reed fills in as a pseudo receiver, Davis and the rook compete for #1 and #2 TE.  Reed hopefully stays healthier and produces more, which ups the chances of a trade next year. If not, then cut him.  Meanwhile, the rook develops.  Keep Davis until he isn’t working out and/or until we draft/sign his replacement.  

Edited by skinny21

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15 hours ago, DC9 said:

I'm with you.  I honestly don't think there's going to be a ton of new signings. 

 

I think we'll grab a safety and maybe a starting caliber WR and DL and that's about it.  Maybe a veteran pass rusher.  We're going to be re-signing a ton of cats, though.

Oh, I think even that is wildly optimistic. We go into the offseason with around 54 mil available. Letting go of Reed gets us into the upper 50s, which people think is a ton of space. But from there, based on what most want to do, we have to:

 

- tender RFAs, have money for draft choices, leave cap for filling the final couple of roster spots, space for IR players or their replacements, space for the practice squad, space for contingencies.  This probably takes us down to the mid-40s, at most, in cap space. 

- tag Cousins. Even assuming they get him signed long-term with a lower cap number in time to effect the team's FA plans- this again seems crazily hopeful- we're still realistically down under 25 mil in cap at best.

- re-sign, for starters, Brown, Long, Foster. This seems to be what most want to do, understandably.

 

Even assuming semi-realistic best-case scenarios, at that point we're down to the level of bargain shopping to fill out the roster. We're talking things like throwing small offers to Galette and Murphy and seeing which one takes it. Ditto Grant and Quick. Maybe looking for a John Sullivan level of vet to help on the OL.

 

If people think we're going to re-sgin most of our guys and then go on any kind of shopping spree, it'd be interesting to hear how they think we're going to afford it. The only way we get even close to it is to start back-loading contracts and mortgaging the future at a frankly reckless level.

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21 hours ago, bobandweave said:

Josh Norman I predict opts out this year. His comments about in the off season we will all hear more about his frustration all but seals that to me. He's got leverage, wants to win a championship and probably is gone. He meets neither of the criteria (We hit on him. He was drafted) you spoke about. I also don't think the teams got any say in this

 

Where are you getting the idea that Norman has an opt-out clause in his contract?

 

Edited by Rufus T Firefly

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9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Make noise, probably. Compete to win a championship? Probably not.  Do what you're saying above, but add "clear #1 WR" and a stud RB (through the draft), and probably another TE who can both block and catch (that guy from Wisconsin Cooley raves about), now you're getting somewhere.  Offensively, they've got to be able to stretch the field vertically on the outside, which they just can't do at all with their current players.  Crowder is a complimentary piece, not a guy who can really force defenses to adjust to him.  Reed can, but he's only available 8-10 games a year, and having him on the field a significant liability in the run game.  

 

You really need a bunch of help at the skill positions.  Which I think they can get.  

 

Put it this way, if you had 2016's offense combined with early season defense 2017 defense (before injuries) you'd be contending for a championship.  At least in my opinion. 

 

In order to get back to the 2016 offense, you need 2 WRs and a better running game, which means fiddling with RB and TE.  It's a lot, but it's worth it.  

I agree to an extent, but few teams can suffer injuries to both of their starting DTs and not have it impact them.  The defense was "ok" after Allen went out but when Matt was still healthy.  They really lost steam when they were both out, and Matt still fully recovered.  

 

 

I don't think we need to add a bunch more stuff around Kirk. If we have a top 10 defense, which we should with those additions and need if we want to win it all, then the pressure comes off of the offense. Doctson, Reed, Crowder, Thompson, and a good vet WR combines to make a very good offense IMO. We just need younger depth behind Reed of course due to injury concern. I think Doctson will develop into our WR1. We just need guys taking all the attention off of him.

 

Would I like a WR1 and stud RB? Of course. But I don't think Jay is going to get one. He seems resigned to stick with mediocre backs. I'm holding out hope Perine develops more but not hopeful. That, and with the resources allocated to Kirk, Brown, and a FA NT, I don't see us being able to also afford a WR1. Maybe we can hit on a good one in the draft though.

 

But if we could find a way to re-sign Kirk, Zach Brown, sign Logan or Poe for NT, AND also bring in Allen Robinson, yet still have enough future cap space to re-sign some of our own when their contracts come up, then yes I'm all for it. That could make an elite offense with Robinson added in. My concern is I don't think the team could afford it without sacrificng other spots and I'd rather the resources go to defense since, as the saying goes, defense wins chamipionships. 

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22 hours ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

I don't know that he'd be a priority.... he's got like a 50% catch rate and he's technically been sleeping all season... before his injury

 

Somewhere in America, Rod Gardner is tearing up a little.

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I’m not sure why some are married to Norman. He’s good. One of the best CBs we’ve had here. But the team’s defensive production didn’t dip too bad when he was on the shelf, and CB is our strongest position group in my opinion. We re-sign Breeland, for much less than Norman’s price tag, and we’re in a better spot financially for Cousins and other FA.

 

Same for Reed. He’s a near elite talent with poor production due to injury. He could go elsewhere and tear it up, but what this current team doesn’t need is an oft injured salary cap black hole who doesn’t block well at tight end. He’s likely to be incredible elsewhere if healthy. Understood. But he’s not what this team needs in my opinion.

 

Cousins should be signed at this point, regardless of if you feel he’s the answer or not. And I’m not going any further on him to steer this thread way off course.

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5 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Oh, I think even that is wildly optimistic.

 

Could be.  But I suspect at the moment our definitions of "starting caliber" are different.  Mine is very fluid after what I've seen from WR this year and DL since seeing the Greek and Allen go down.

 

If I had to pick one I'd say take care of the defense and let Cousins try and poop out 20 points a game.

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6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not sure why some are married to Norman. He’s good. One of the best CBs we’ve had here. But the team’s defensive production didn’t dip too bad when he was on the shelf, and CB is our strongest position group in my opinion. We re-sign Breeland, for much less than Norman’s price tag, and we’re in a better spot financially for Cousins and other FA.

 

Same for Reed. He’s a near elite talent with poor production due to injury. He could go elsewhere and tear it up, but what this current team doesn’t need is an oft injured salary cap black hole who doesn’t block well at tight end. He’s likely to be incredible elsewhere if healthy. Understood. But he’s not what this team needs in my opinion.

 

Cousins should be signed at this point, regardless of if you feel he’s the answer or not. And I’m not going any further on him to steer this thread way off course.

 

 

Has Norman ever been hurt before this year, though?  I understand letting a dude walk to sign two but letting two Blues go to sing some yellows that turn green twice a year is not how you win championships in today's NFL.

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11 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

 

Has Norman ever been hurt before this year, though?  I understand letting a dude walk to sign two but letting two Blues go to sing some yellows that turn green twice a year is not how you win championships in today's NFL.

 

I’m not worried about Norman’s injury rate.

 

Its his cap number plus the defense not dipping when he was out.

 

The key, though, is Bree. We need one of the two. Either/or. Bree is a lesser player with less of a cap hit and CB is still one of the top if not the top unit on the team. Norman is a greater player with a greater cap hit.

 

We need the cap to fill our lesser positions, pay our QB and get Zach Brown back.

 

Brown is more important than Norman. 

 

Where we disagree on Reed is simple: He ain’t bluechip if he ain’t on the field. 

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Wonder if Gruden goes after Tyler Eifert, though he's oft-injured as well, but can be argued that he'll most likely have to settle for a prove-it deal and will be cheaper than Reed without losing production. He's also a monster at 6'6 255.

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