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    • By TK in ES Coverage
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      In today's Divisional Debacle, the Defense under Greg Manusky in the first half, gave up 207 yards of offense (105 rushing/102 passing) and two touchdowns.  That said, they did manage a single INT on which the Offense actually managed to score a touchdown off of. They allowed 12 of 16 passes to be completed . 
       
      In the second half it was 107 yards given up (58 rushing//49 passing) a field goal and a touchdown. They traded their first half pick for a second half sack. However, Dallas completed all five of their pass attempts. 
       
      Don't read that thinking "Well it seems like they tightened up some in the 2nd half."  They didn't. They simply had about half the plays in the second half. 30 plays in the First and 18 in the Second.
       
      So far in two Divisional matchups, the Defense has faltered in the Second half. They start out like a house of fire for the first few drives until their opponents gradually make adjustments. This Defensive coaching staff fails make any adjustments, whether in game or at the very least at Halftime. They've given up over 30 points per game for a total of 63 points given up in two games. While the Bears are up next, the Pats await and they've put up over 70 points in two games. Yeah. Ok. They did shut out the Dolphins today which is looking like the NFL version of ... ahem... shooting fish in a barrel. 
       
      The frustrating thing is Manusky is the DC that the Front Office actively looked to replace during the off season without firing him. When you know they're looking to replace you, most people would make a concentrated effort to show an improvement. Yet Manusky's Defense still keeps acting like it's starring in Groundhog Day.
       
      In his post game presser, when asked directly about if any coaching changes would be made, Gruden said "No, I think after two games – you’re talking about playing two very good offensive football teams and two of the best offensive lines in pro football we just played back-to-back. That’s no excuse whatsoever, but I don’t think we need to hit the panic button yet. We just have to continue to focus on what we can do better to win. Get Jonathan [Allen] in here, get a couple of our corners back in here and let’s go back and strap it up against Chicago [Bears] next week and see what happens.” 
       
      Here's another frustrating thing. The defensive communication was an issue last season as well. Wasn't this supposed to have been worked on during OTA's and Training Camp? It's understandable that the rookies would still be on a learning curve, but NFL vets like Collins and DRC you'd think they would have down by the start of the season. 
       
      Gruden said they're a very talented group on Defense but that they weren't reaching them. When questioned as to why the coaching staff that has been in place for several years, wasn't reaching them, he defended the comment as them being a young defense. “We have some moving parts now. Landon Collins is a veteran guy but this is his first year, [Montez] Sweat’s in his first year, [Cole] Holcomb, it’s his first year, [Jon] Bostic is in his first year. We’re playing Dominique [Rodgers-Cromartie] at corner and this is Jimmy Moreland’s first year, so it’s not like we are the most experienced group. We feel like were very talented, but we`re still fighting through somethings. There are a lot of things to look forward to, without a doubt, but we do have to play better and strap it up and get back to work."

       
       
       
DC9

2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

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4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yep.  That’s maybe 10 million more, assuming things don’t take a downturn. Doesn’t really change the fact that we’re not (and won’t be) in good shape cap wise - instead of looking at 112 million in cap space for 2020, a 10th of that is probably closer to the truth.  

True, but i have to imagine int he next 2 years some contracts will fall of, players released and things change in order to maintain.  Hard to really get an idea of the cap space 2 years in advance.  

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59 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

True, but i have to imagine int he next 2 years some contracts will fall of, players released and things change in order to maintain.  Hard to really get an idea of the cap space 2 years in advance.  

Of course, and I shouldn’t have said it the way I did.  It would be more accurate to say that as of now, our cap situation for 2019 and 2020 is not nearly what it looks like.  Not that we’re in terrible shape, just that without major moves, we likely won’t have a great deal of cap space going forward... much like this year.  

 

Honestly, this is one reason I hate the trade as much as I do.  Fuller and perhaps that 3rd round pick are what you use to move on from Norman, or other pricey contracts.  It’s what responsible teams do - keep their young, cheap talent and cut/trade the older/more expensive players or just let them walk (maybe even get comp picks).  Obviously there are exceptions.  It’s a failure in philosophy, but whatever, don’t want to clutter this thread with trade talk.  

 

 

Edited by skinny21
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Norman is an obvious trade/cut after 2019 - 15.5 cap hit, 3mill in dead cap if we cut him. I actually don't mind losing him after this season. Sure it creates a hole, but he wasn't all that great last season anyway and that's one big salary off the books (14.5 in 2019, 15.5 in 2020) - and he should have some trade value to a SB contender who is willing to pick up that contract.

 

I know we can restructure etc but honestly, then you're paying him well into his declining years and it just isn't worth it. Cut bait with him and take what you can get. The FO needs to be smarter with stuff like this. We always end up paying players like DHall well past their sell by date. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE DHall but it's hard to make a case that we've got any value out of him for a couple of years now. 

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11 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Of course, and I shouldn’t have said it the way I did.  It would be more accurate to say that as of now, our cap situation for 2019 and 2020 is not nearly what it looks like.  Not that we’re in terrible shape, just that without major moves, we likely won’t have a great deal of cap space going forward... much like this year.  

 

Honestly, this is one reason I hate the trade as much as I do.  Fuller and perhaps that 3rd round pick are what you use to move on from Norman, or other pricey contracts.  It’s what responsible teams do - keep their young, cheap talent and cut/trade the older/more expensive players or just let them walk (maybe even get comp picks).  Obviously there are exceptions.  It’s a failure in philosophy, but whatever, don’t want to clutter this thread with trade talk.  

 

 

we're talkin the effect it has on free agency :cheers:.

 

I agree, i still am sour about Fuller, but big picture i wonder what a level of stability will have across the whole team.  Whether it be re-signing current players, or signing free agents, having a guy like Smith there calms the waters.  It gives the offense a direction to add pieces to.  Having McCoy there with the hopes of drafting,  you don't know yet who will be there, or the system that would fit best.  Now we have Smith, we have a 2 - 3 year window to find the right fit as a successor, and hopefully the pieces added can develop to keep going.  The best QBs in the league (for the most part) now played behind a guy who ran a similar system, so the other 10 guys on offense could be added in and grow.  Does that mean now we have a direction to look at, with the idea of drafting players for the next 3 years to fit that direction.  Not worrying about whether or not the QB next year is going to be mobile, short, tall, fat, slow, left handed, right handed....

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7 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Yep.  That’s maybe 10 million more, assuming things don’t take a downturn. Doesn’t really change the fact that we’re not (and won’t be) in good shape cap wise - instead of looking at 112 million in cap space for 2020, a 10th of that is probably closer to the truth.  

Which accounts for the cap needed for the fifth year option on Brandon Scherff.

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2 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Which accounts for the cap needed for the fifth year option on Brandon Scherff.

I honestly have no idea what that 5th year option entails cap wise.  I’d assume it’s a minimum of what he’s making now (6-7 mil?).  Either way... it’s another significant hit. 

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I've got more confidence in scheme than any qb- there were receivers running a open non-stop. Kirk had some great throws but he also missed a lot of wide open guys (see doctson for the first half of season).  Smith gives us the running threat that Kirk didn't and to be honest Kirk was that great on 3rd down for the longest time.

 

losing fuller sucks but I don't see any regression going into next season if we find a capable1-2 rb and resign Zach with another corner and wr.  Not far fetched to think we can't be better going into next season and set ourselves up for a better team with the 7-8 million savings at qb per year

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19 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

I've got more confidence in scheme than any qb- there were receivers running a open non-stop.

 

Yeah man, coaches should be getting the 25M contracts.  :ols:

 

It's selective memory to say receivers are always open to say the least.  I like Jay and all, but receivers still have to win routes, guys still have to block and the quarterback still has to deliver the ball.  If only football was as easy as scheme, if only.

 

 

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11 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Of course, and I shouldn’t have said it the way I did.  It would be more accurate to say that as of now, our cap situation for 2019 and 2020 is not nearly what it looks like.  Not that we’re in terrible shape, just that without major moves, we likely won’t have a great deal of cap space going forward... much like this year.  

 

Honestly, this is one reason I hate the trade as much as I do.  Fuller and perhaps that 3rd round pick are what you use to move on from Norman, or other pricey contracts.  It’s what responsible teams do - keep their young, cheap talent and cut/trade the older/more expensive players or just let them walk (maybe even get comp picks).  Obviously there are exceptions.  It’s a failure in philosophy, but whatever, don’t want to clutter this thread with trade talk.  

 

 

Couldn't you say that we just got the same consistent QB play at a lesser cost for 3 years, to groom a replacement? 

 

I mean we ****ed up the Kirk thing 2 years ago. Last year we doubled down on that mistake. That's all a complete failure of our **** FO, yes, but now we are staying competitive, moving on from the drama, and setting a time limit. 

 

I'm pretty sure or FO knows they screwed the pooch years ago. But it's obviously time to do exactly what the chiefs did.

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4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I honestly have no idea what that 5th year option entails cap wise.  I’d assume it’s a minimum of what he’s making now (6-7 mil?).  Either way... it’s another significant hit. 

It was 12.5 mil this year for Jake Matthews. Don't know how much higher it will go for Scherff, probably a little. It was 11.9 the year before.

Edited by Rufus T Firefly

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Why don't the Redskins offer Trent Williams a new deal, just looking at some cap figures and in 2019 he has a $14m cap hit with only a 2m dead cap hit(think I'm right). Would he not be interested in a new deal that the Skins could get his 2018 cap figure down to about 8m, saving just under 6m this year. I would also seriously look at trying to trade Reed as well, we have about 16m on the books for TE this year. If no trade then outright release him saving 5m, a 10m cap figure for Reed is far to much for 8 games a season. While I'm at it why don't we release Norman who is a better talker than player and save 9m off the cap, there you go I've saved 20m for our Redskins. 

 

Don't be to hard on me fellow Skin's just my own opinions ?

 

HTTR 

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3 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Why don't the Redskins offer Trent Williams a new deal, just looking at some cap figures and in 2019 he has a $14m cap hit with only a 2m dead cap hit(think I'm right). Would he not be interested in a new deal that the Skins could get his 2018 cap figure down to about 8m, saving just under 6m this year. 

Because he's entering his 30s and is starting to be troubled by injuries. Lowering his cap figure now raises it as he ages, and kicks in an extension that starts when he's 33. Not to say Allen won't do it so he can sign an extra FA or two to prop the team up and preserve his job, but it's really bad business.

 

You're way off on his dead cap hit, btw. It would be 9.4 mil.

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30 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Because he's entering his 30s and is starting to be troubled by injuries. Lowering his cap figure now raises it as he ages, and kicks in an extension that starts when he's 33. Not to say Allen won't do it so he can sign an extra FA or two to prop the team up and preserve his job, but it's really bad business.

 

You're way off on his dead cap hit, btw. It would be 9.4 mil.

Cheers mate, it looks like I got the dead cap hit the wrong way round , what do you think of the other players I mentioned?.

 

HTTR 

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1 minute ago, markmills67 said:

Cheers mate, it looks like I got the dead cap hit the wrong way round , what do you think of the other players I mentioned?.

 

HTTR 

I have said I would try to trade both Reed and Norman. If there were zero takers, I would probably let Reed go, but Norman is good enough to not be let go for the cap savings. 

 

My priority wouldn't be making cap space for this season though. I'd be looking to build something for coming years. We're going nowhere right now. And that was true before the Smith trade.

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23 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I have said I would try to trade both Reed and Norman. If there were zero takers, I would probably let Reed go, but Norman is good enough to not be let go for the cap savings. 

 

My priority wouldn't be making cap space for this season though. I'd be looking to build something for coming years. We're going nowhere right now. And that was true before the Smith trade.

Yep - Reed is on the block for me too. Get whatever we can for him just to get the salary off the books. He's an outstanding player when healthy but he's just not healthy often enough. I would think someone might throw us a late rounder for him at least. 

 

I'd be interested to see Norman's value in a trade but his production doesn't match his salary right now. We have too many holes to pay a very good corner elite money. If there's anything good put on the table for him then I'd take it. Would be a very flashy move for someone to make though, and I can see one of the teams with a lot of cap space potentially being interested in trading for him. Would potentially put us in CB hell next year but there's a few decent FA CBs this year http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/  and there's always the draft route - I think you can replicate Norman's production from last year for significantly less money.

 

Edited by UKskins
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4 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Yep - Reed is on the block for me too. Get whatever we can for him just to get the salary off the books. He's an outstanding player when healthy but he's just not healthy often enough. I would think someone might throw us a late rounder for him at least. 

 

I'd be interested to see Norman's value in a trade but his production doesn't match his salary right now. We have too many holes to pay a very good corner elite money. If there's anything good put on the table for him then I'd take it. Would be a very flashy move for someone to make though, and I can see one of the teams with a lot of cap space potentially being interested in trading for him. Would potentially put us in CB hell next year but there's a few decent FA CBs this year http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/  and there's always the draft route - I think you can replicate Norman's production from last year for significantly less money.

 

Norman was banged up last year. I think people are getting a little quick to bury him. I think he's still  worth his salary pending another season of substandard play.

 

My plan would have been to sign Kyle Fuller, getting younger, saving a few mil per year and getting draft picks for Norman (hopefully) The Fuller brothers, Dunbar and Moreau would have set us up nicely at CB going forward. That's all down the crapper now, obviously. 

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14 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Think we will try for Landry as our #1 target.

 

Also, what about WR Albert Wilson from the Chiefs now.......:kickcan:

 

As soon as this deal was done I thought the same thing.

 

Re-sign Brown and five eight.

 

Then draft defense in the 1st, RB in the second, QB in the 4th, and defense forever after that.

 

Maybe bring in another fat boy on the lines to compete if we can find the money.

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3 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I have said I would try to trade both Reed and Norman. If there were zero takers, I would probably let Reed go, but Norman is good enough to not be let go for the cap savings. 

 

My priority wouldn't be making cap space for this season though. I'd be looking to build something for coming years. We're going nowhere right now. And that was true before the Smith trade.

 

I'm not sure this is THE plan that any one wanted, but after the dust has settled on it I think it's a plan that could work if we do it right.  Certainly not expecting a ring the next couple of years but we could have the KC approach where the team gets groomed and coached up the next two years for a QB we take late this year (everyone thinks it's the kid from Richmond - who looks every bit the US Army Ranger in the face - never seen him play a snap though).

 

Smith is a guy who could mature the rest of the team like Doct and Crowder and a Jarvis Landry or the like.

 

I'm not sure what the market will be for Reed, but I agree he could go.

 

Of course all of this depends on what the actual guaranteed money on the Smith contract is.  But it could set up nicely for a kid to take over in 2020 and give us a two to three year window to run there.

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10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Yeah man, coaches should be getting the 25M contracts.  :ols:

 

It's selective memory to say receivers are always open to say the least.  I like Jay and all, but receivers still have to win routes, guys still have to block and the quarterback still has to deliver the ball.  If only football was as easy as scheme, if only.

 

 

Of course your players have to execute, what I'm saying is that a lot of qb's could have hit those passes.  The scheme and draw ups are what consistently worked.  People act as if it was all Kirk.  I loved Kirk but he missed a lot of open guys and didn't always lead his receivers well.  He is not worth what he is going to get, like it or not.  Smiths contract is essentially what Kirk is worth and from the sound of it, he's going to get overpaid by at least 5 million per.

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Somebody please refresh my memory. 

Wasn't teddy Bridgewater on pace to become a superstar before his injury? 

 

I remember when the injury happened there was all sorts of rumors of possible amputation to he may never walk again but I thought he was making an excellent recovery. 

Why are the vikings letting him walk? 

Is he not recovering from the injury as well as I thought or was he not looking as good as I remember before the injury? 

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Trading Norman means a cap hit of 9 mil, but we’d still save around 8.  I think he’d be really attractive to another team because his base salary is between 11-13 the next 3 years.  

 

Pretty ballsy to (maybe) lose all 3 starting corner’s from last year though...

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Think Norman was nicked up last season. He's getting a rough rep, he's got a couple top seasons left in him.

 

bout time the Redskins PR machine went into phase 2, fully expect Brown re-signed over the weekend :headbang:

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24 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Think Norman was nicked up last season. He's getting a rough rep, he's got a couple top seasons left in him.

 

bout time the Redskins PR machine went into phase 2, fully expect Brown re-signed over the weekend :headbang:

Yeah, I think either that or they sign a big name early in FA.  My guess is one of the DL available or a receiver (G isn’t nearly as sexy).  

24 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Think Norman was nicked up last season. He's getting a rough rep, he's got a couple top seasons left in him.

 

bout time the Redskins PR machine went into phase 2, fully expect Brown re-signed over the weekend :headbang:

Yeah, I think either that or they sign a big name early in FA.  My guess is one of the DL available or a receiver (G isn’t nearly as sexy).  

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On 1/21/2018 at 3:33 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Actually, I'm saying Brown's market wont be what some of you project it to be.  Because he's an ILB and that market is nothing like QB for a variety of reasons that's I'm sure escape you.

Brown didn't have much of a market last year which is a reason why we got him on the cheap....not sure why this off-season would be any different?

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