2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

[MisterPinstripe]

9 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Except we haven't done that at all.  Not even a little bit.
 

1. 1)  Cousins - I dont have a problem with not paying Cousins as much as he got from the Vikings. I think Smith is just as good, possibly better.
2. 2)  Paul - Signed a 2 year deal for a little under 5 million. No issue letting him go, he wasnt great and we have draft picks coming up behind him.
3. 3)  Breeland - His contact wasnt bad, but at the same time if the coaches think our young draft picks can fill that spot then its the right choice.
4. 4)  Long - We had a replacement at C we drafted who the coaches love, and they dont love him at G. Not a big loss.
5. 5)  Fuller - This is the one guy I wish we didnt lose.
6. 6)  Grant - Not some great loss.

 

That's just off the top of my head and just this year.  We trade Fuller, literally the top slot corner in the league in his second year, and a third for a QB.  Granted Smith is good, but that's not letting your players grow for the future.

Paul, as far as I know, wasn't asking for Reed-type money.  Excellent on teams, excellent in the locker room.

Bree's a bit of a nut, but he didn't sign an unreasonable contract.  Pair that with Fuller and it's worse.

 

Cousins has been talked about enough, but another draft pick gone.

 

What you wrote is what good teams do.  We're not one of those teams.

Notes in the quote, but we didnt lose any big names outside of Cousins and Alex Smith I think is a wash. Good teams dont hold onto everyone they draft, they pay for the really good guys and replace the others with draft picks. Thats what we are trying to do, the right way to do it. Let other teams overpay for guys like Grant, Paul, Long, etc.

[NewCliche21]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

There are counter arguments for each of those guys though:

1) Cousins wasnt signing here. And he came up with his 3 year fully guaranteed contract idea YEARS ago.

2) Paul. I agree great special teamer. But FOURTH on our depth chart.

3) Long just signed a monster contract. We like what we have in a young center. And Long isnt really a guard.He was signed as a Center plus hes coming off of surgery

4) Breeland stunk. He was burned constantly. I really dont get the love for the guy.

5) Fuller. HUGE loss. But please see number 1 as to why he was dealt.

6) Grant. Probably the one I am most surprised we didnt keep. But it appeared he was signing a contract similar to Richardsons before he got screwed.

 

Like I said, these are just examples off the top of my head of draft picks and homegrown players that we didn't lock up when we could've or dealt because we effed up elsewhere.

 

We're also allegedly moving on from Perine (saw this a couple days ago) already.  Same with Kelley who was our 19th-string back or something like that.  We nailed it with Thompson but that was it.  Now we're STILL looking for a running back.

You can come up with counters for any move individually, but put them all together and we've got a history of screwing up.  Also keep in mind that this is just this offseason, I didn't even look back throughout the Bruce era.

[hatchetwound]

15 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Except we haven't done that at all.  Not even a little bit.
 

1. 1)  Cousins
2. 2)  Paul
3. 3)  Breeland
4. 4)  Long
5. 5)  Fuller
6. 6)  Grant

 

That's just off the top of my head and just this year.  We trade Fuller, literally the top slot corner in the league in his second year, and a third for a QB.  Granted Smith is good, but that's not letting your players grow for the future.

Paul, as far as I know, wasn't asking for Reed-type money.  Excellent on teams, excellent in the locker room.

Bree's a bit of a nut, but he didn't sign an unreasonable contract.  Pair that with Fuller and it's worse.

 

Cousins has been talked about enough, but another draft pick gone.

 

What you wrote is what good teams do.  We're not one of those teams.

We bungled the whole Cousins thing, but Alex Smith is a nice consolation prize.  Losing Fuller is the one that stings IMO.

 

Keeping Breeland would have been nice.  Paul and Grant are easily replaceable with younger, cheaper options.

[goskins10]

5 hours ago, carex said:

 

Hankins was a cut, so he didn't sign a prove it deal

 

3 yrs - $27M but can be cut after 1 yr with zero dead CAP? That is exactly what a prove it deal looks like. 

[OVCChairman]

4 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Except we haven't done that at all.  Not even a little bit.
 

1. 1)  Cousins
2. 2)  Paul
3. 3)  Breeland
4. 4)  Long
5. 5)  Fuller
6. 6)  Grant

 

 

 

3 of the 6 are backups,

 

Cousins Drama (like you said, talked about enough)

 

Breeland - I want to say i remember him eluding to not re-signing prior to last season... I do wish we would have dealt him at that time and gotten something...

 

Fuller - Given the Cousins situation he turned into our starting QB... jury out on what happens there

 

 

 

I still see a lot of our own signed here, with FA pickups being an accent.  On the O-line alone, 4 / 5 starters currently on the roster were drafted by us, 2 are still on rookie deals, and the other 2 have clearly re-signed.  Defensively, half the starters as of now we drafted, Foster we got coming off his rookie deal, and have signed him.  Also extended Brown.  

 

 

Im not saying we're done building, but the trend is absolutely there.  We can't expect the whole team to be drafted.  Contracts expire, markets dictate inflated deals, and there are things that are uncontrollable... We can't draft 22 starters at a time...   

[MisterPinstripe]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

3 yrs - $27M but can be cut after 1 yr with zero dead CAP? That is exactly what a prove it deal looks like. 

Regardless of if it was a prove it deal or not, he played really well last year. Its not like Bennie Logan who signed a prove it deal and didnt play well. Hankins proved it.

[SemperFi Skins]

I don't think Breeland is even signed so that's a moot point. He failed a physical with Carolina.... He doesn't expect to be able to even pass a physical until April

[NewCliche21]

2 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Notes in the quote, but we didnt lose any big names outside of Cousins and Alex Smith I think is a wash. Good teams dont hold onto everyone they draft, they pay for the really good guys and replace the others with draft picks. Thats what we are trying to do, the right way to do it. Let other teams overpay for guys like Grant, Paul, Long, etc.

 

I already talked about everything else you posted just after you made this post, but the bolded part is a direct contradiction of what we did with Fuller.  He was literally the top slot corner in the LEAGUE last year.  His *SECOND* year.  This is exactly the player you hold onto.  If we didn't screw the pooch on Cousins a couple years ago, then we still have Fuller and whoever we would've gotten with our third-rounder as opposed to an older quarterback who is on the same level as Cousins.  The Fuller move was infuriating.

 

And Paul (not directed at you) was a third-stringer with Jordan Reed as first string.  That basically means that Paul would be our second tight end for half hte season since Reed can't stay on the field.

[Jericho]

9 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Except we haven't done that at all.  Not even a little bit.
 

1. 1)  Cousins
2. 2)  Paul
3. 3)  Breeland
4. 4)  Long
5. 5)  Fuller
6. 6)  Grant

 

That's just off the top of my head and just this year.  We trade Fuller, literally the top slot corner in the league in his second year, and a third for a QB.  Granted Smith is good, but that's not letting your players grow for the future.

Paul, as far as I know, wasn't asking for Reed-type money.  Excellent on teams, excellent in the locker room.

Bree's a bit of a nut, but he didn't sign an unreasonable contract.  Pair that with Fuller and it's worse.

 

Cousins has been talked about enough, but another draft pick gone.

 

What you wrote is what good teams do.  We're not one of those teams.

 

 

I think you're missing the point completely. Guys like Breeland, Long, and Grant are the exact type of players you SHOULD let leave in free agency. They're decent enough guys, but they start eating up cap space quick. People complain when the Redskins sign mediocre free agents from other teams - McGee, McClain, Luavao, Paea, Reyes, etc....

 

Players like Breeland, Long, and Grant are not bad players, but it's not plausible to pay every player on the team seven to eight million per year. Sometimes you make tough choices. If the talent isn't high enough or there are replacements on the roster, the players walk.

 

As for the rest of the list, Paul doesn't really fit as he did re-sign here after his rookie deal and played 7 full years. He's no longer young. He's probably got a few good years left, but he's no better than third on the depth chart at TE and the team shouldn't be spending that much money on a third stringer. Fuller wasn't a free agent. And while I don't believe the team should have traded him, I at least understand why it did. It did it to fill the most important position on the roster. And finally there's Cousins. They did screw the pooch with Cousins. So it's clear they screwed up. But it's not like they never made an offer and let him leave either.  they franchised him twice and in the end moved on.

 

[Taylorcooley1]

39 minutes ago, kiingspadee said:

lol but my fantasy team makes the playoffs and wins championships....

That's disgusting..why not be a patriots fan than?

[MisterPinstripe]

1 minute ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I already talked about everything else you posted just after you made this post, but the bolded part is a direct contradiction of what we did with Fuller.  He was literally the top slot corner in the LEAGUE last year.  His *SECOND* year.  This is exactly the player you hold onto.  If we didn't screw the pooch on Cousins a couple years ago, then we still have Fuller and whoever we would've gotten with our third-rounder as opposed to an older quarterback who is on the same level as Cousins.  The Fuller move was infuriating.

 

And Paul (not directed at you) was a third-stringer with Jordan Reed as first string.  That basically means that Paul would be our second tight end for half hte season since Reed can't stay on the field.

I wont argue on Fuller, I was beyond pissed when I heard we traded him away. Hes really the only guy at this point I am upset about of the ones we have let go. And by upset I mean REALLY upset. Loved him.

[goskins10]

4 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Regardless of if it was a prove it deal or not, he played really well last year. Its not like Bennie Logan who signed a prove it deal and didnt play well. Hankins proved it.

 

That is actually exactly what I said in the original post. 

[NewCliche21]

Oh Jesus, people, I don't have the time to respond to each of the same post over and over.

 

The point is that we don't keep our own.  I don't give a crap if three of the six I came up with off the top of my head with no research are backups.  If you think that our front office is doing things the right way, then more power to you.  Our roster and record disagree.

I completely agree with @Jericho and Hatchet (won't let me tag for some reason) when it comes to letting the right people walk and signing the big players when you're within striking distance.  We simply haven't done that.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm having a hard time even seeing a long-term strategy for the Skins so praising their long-term strategy is fascinating.

 

The formuala in the league changes year to year. The one thing that remains consistent is the need for a QB. We have Alex Smith. He is definitely a Quarterback. He's 52 years old and keeps getting abandoned by teams, but if your tight end is open in the end zone, he will definitely throw him the ball.

 

Aside from that, the current strategy seems to be a whole bunch of young talent on rookie or below market deals. Philly won on seemingly endless depth last year. And that more or less has been the Patriot Way since the Moss/Welker season.

 

I think I ask this every year, but which one of our starters would a good team see as an upgrade. Williams is always on the list. Reed sometimes makes the list, but I'm little exhausted with Reed. Norman.....I like to think he has one or two more big years in him. Kerrigan is always a tough one for me. I think he's good. But I think he's good partially because someone on a defense has to be good and be schemed free for sacks and stuff like that. Also, everyone I just mentioned is way beyond rookie contract years.

[Taylorcooley1]

30 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

We do not have the talent to win 11+ games.  We do not have a stud defense to help keep us in games.  We have no running game.  We have a new WR coming in along with a new QB, both should do fine, but Doctson is the new 50/50 until proven otherwise.  We have a TE that was made out of glass with a really good vet back-up in VD, but is aging and while he put up decent numbers, his catch percentage went down almost 13% last year from the previous season.

 

We have yet to address a NT in this fantastic base 3-4 defense they have been building since 2010.  Our DL is average, even without injuries, imo.  Our linebackers are average with the exception of Kerrigan, imo.  And we now let Breeland walk and traded Fuller.  We addressed that with Orlando, which I'm fine with bringing him in, but he's average.  Norman is great when healthy, DJ is fine.  

 

Nothing we have done thus far in FA indicates that this team is still nothing more than a 7-9 win team, with 9 coming with a couple of breaks (like the losses to Detroit and NO last minutes due to implosion by the defense - we hold, we are a 9 win team instead of 7).  We are who we thought we are........

Meh...I've seen teams with less talent make it deep in the playoffs with 20+ ranked defenses..

[MisterPinstripe]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

That is actually exactly what I said in the original post. 

Must have missed that. Oops.

1 minute ago, NewCliche21 said:

I completely agree with @Jericho and Hatchet (won't let me tag for some reason) when it comes to letting the right people walk and signing the big players when you're within striking distance.  We simply haven't done that.

Not trying to re-hash anything, hard to keep up with this thread sometimes. Who do you feel like we have let go that we shouldnt have?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, Taylorcooley1 said:

Meh...I've seen teams with less talent make it deep in the playoffs with 20+ ranked defenses..

 

Fair enough, which ones?

 

And by deep, are we talking conference championship games or divisional games?   To me, deep means at minimum the conference championship game.  

[NewCliche21]

6 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

 

I think you're missing the point completely. Guys like Breeland, Long, and Grant are the exact type of players you SHOULD let leave in free agency. They're decent enough guys, but they start eating up cap space quick. People complain when the Redskins sign mediocre free agents from other teams - McGee, McClain, Luavao, Paea, Reyes, etc....

 

Players like Breeland, Long, and Grant are not bad players, but it's not plausible to pay every player on the team seven to eight million per year. Sometimes you make tough choices. If the talent isn't high enough or there are replacements on the roster, the players walk.

 

As for the rest of the list, Paul doesn't really fit as he did re-sign here after his rookie deal and played 7 full years. He's no longer young. He's probably got a few good years left, but he's no better than third on the depth chart at TE and the team shouldn't be spending that much money on a third stringer. Fuller wasn't a free agent. And while I don't believe the team should have traded him, I at least understand why it did. It did it to fill the most important position on the roster. And finally there's Cousins. They did screw the pooch with Cousins. So it's clear they screwed up. But it's not like they never made an offer and let him leave either.  they franchised him twice and in the end moved on.

 

 

Good point on Paul, I'll concede that one.

I don't mind letting players walk if you have someone better and cheaper.  That's about it.  Moreau and Holsey?  Proven nothing.  Losing Breeland AND Fuller is more the problem than just losing Breeland.  You lost your #2 and #3 corners on a defense that gives up the big play like Toys 'R Us.  And I didn't say that Fuller was a free agent; I said that we don't hold on to our good, young players.  And please remember that screwing up Cousins is the reason we did that.

Signing mediocre players is just stupid unless they're stopgaps.  They're not stopgaps if they're multi-year starters.  You use the donut for 50 miles; it's not a replacement tire.

We suck at keeping good players.  We suck at filling holes with good players.  We have no real plan.  If this were 2011, year three of Bruce, then fine I'll give him a pass and see what he does.  This is year NINE.  NINE!  That means one of two things:

 

1)  Bruce doesn't have a plan

 

2) Bruce's plan sucks

 

Either way, our FO needs to add a "GT" in front of it.

[hatchetwound]

18 hours ago, SkinsTillIDie said:

 

We're missing a dominant run stuffer, the #2 interior lineman. And we're missing pass rushing depth. We need to sign someone like McPhee, whose signing I'm sure would be widely under appreciated. He would be our under-the-radar Chris Long signing.

 

This post had me thinking... who is out there that could fit the bill: An older vet with a little left in the tank that we can bring in cheap for 1 or 2 years? 
 

Looking over the list of available lineman, one jumped out at me: Connor Barwin. 

 

He played in 14 of 16 games.  He recorded 5 sacks.  It seems like there isn't much buzz around him so the market set for him will be pretty low.  And he's a good locker room guy to boot.  Thoughts?

[MAATopDogg]

On 3/21/2018 at 6:15 AM, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I'd take McPhee over Galette, gives us a very solid OLB group.

 

hopefully someone else eventually bites on Galette, let's max out our 4 comp picks next year.

Me Too. McPhee sets the edge really well. 

[OVCChairman]

13 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Oh Jesus, people, I don't have the time to respond to each of the same post over and over.

 

The point is that we don't keep our own.  I don't give a crap if three of the six I came up with off the top of my head with no research are backups.  If you think that our front office is doing things the right way, then more power to you.  Our roster and record disagree.

I completely agree with @Jericho and Hatchet (won't let me tag for some reason) when it comes to letting the right people walk and signing the big players when you're within striking distance.  We simply haven't done that.

 

So where does it start? 

 

I've never said our FO doesn't have it's demons, but this is a rebuilding process.  We have to do it via the draft.  We're doing that.  They screwed up on Cousins... that's been established, but insinuate that we're just letting our best players walk is incorrect. 

 

Trent Williams, Ryan Kerrigan, Morgan Moses, Jordan Reed, Chris Thompson... top end players drafted by us, re-signed by us. 

 

Zack Brown, Mason Foster, Vernon Davis, key guys signed by us via FA at reasonable rates... resigned for a 2nd contract at reasonable rates. 

 

Brandon Sherff, Chase Roullier, Matt Ioannidis, Jonathan Allen, Fabian Moreau, Preston Smith, Jameson Crowder, Josh Doctson, Montae Nicholson... All guys expected to be starters or key contributors still playing under a rookie contract.

 

 

Look man, the FO has it's fair share of mess ups, but they also at least look like they're going about it the right way... 

 

Fair deals, drafting players and developing.  

 

 

 

And just for the record, I don't like Allen... I don't like Snyder.  I think their business ethics and character regarding people are in great question, and I have serious doubts about whether they can ever be a winner, but I also will try to call things the way I see them. 

[NewCliche21]

9 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

So where does it start? 

 

I've never said our FO doesn't have it's demons, but this is a rebuilding process.  We have to do it via the draft.  We're doing that.  They screwed up on Cousins... that's been established, but insinuate that we're just letting our best players walk is incorrect. 

 

Trent Williams, Ryan Kerrigan, Morgan Moses, Jordan Reed, Chris Thompson... top end players drafted by us, re-signed by us. 

 

Zack Brown, Mason Foster, Vernon Davis, key guys signed by us via FA at reasonable rates... resigned for a 2nd contract at reasonable rates. 

 

Brandon Sherff, Chase Roullier, Matt Ioannidis, Jonathan Allen, Fabian Moreau, Preston Smith, Jameson Crowder, Josh Doctson, Montae Nicholson... All guys expected to be starters or key contributors still playing under a rookie contract.

 

Look man, the FO has it's fair share of mess ups, but they also at least look like they're going about it the right way... 

 

Fair deals, drafting players and developing.  

 

And just for the record, I don't like Allen... I don't like Snyder.  I think their business ethics and character regarding people are in great question, and I have serious doubts about whether they can ever be a winner, but I also will try to call things the way I see them. 

 

Good post.

 

My main problem is your first question.  The fact that we've asked and answered it seemingly every year, for the past nine years, is ridiculous.  Allen has ZERO credibility.  I'd love to be proven wrong, and your list is actually pretty refreshing to read.  Until we are winners, I can't say that we have a plan.  As long as other teams in the division are going from crap to Super Bowl champs in two years, Allen and his "plan" are crap.

 

However, I'm going to stop here as I realized there is a thread about Allen and I'm de-railing this one.

 

Last post I'll have on the topic so I don't completely pull an Allen and screw up the thread.

[Taylorcooley1]

20 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Fair enough, which ones?

 

And by deep, are we talking conference championship games or divisional games?   To me, deep means at minimum the conference championship game.  

Superbowl...the Steelers patriots packers saints colts cardinals ..if Trent dilfer can win a Superbowl..and don't give me that whole the ravens had the best defense ever..just kidding..they did.. Trent won cuz of there defense..

[Guardshock]

Did you guys see the John Keim tweet about Orlando Scandrick's contract? Only 1 million guaranteed.

 

I now am OK with the signing. All of the money means he has to earn it in playing time and defensive abilities.

[bedlamVR]

22 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Oh Jesus, people, I don't have the time to respond to each of the same post over and over.

 

The point is that we don't keep our own.  I don't give a crap if three of the six I came up with off the top of my head with no research are backups.  If you think that our front office is doing things the right way, then more power to you.  Our roster and record disagree.

I completely agree with @Jericho and Hatchet (won't let me tag for some reason) when it comes to letting the right people walk and signing the big players when you're within striking distance.  We simply haven't done that.

 

This is the problem here ... your not actually looking at the bigger picture here ... we resigned some of our developed talent Everette and Dunbar or reasonable deals which means we can keep developing them ... 

 

no team has the luxury of moving on from a starter to a young - but proven back up ... i mean To say Moreau has shown nothing to move on from Breeland ... what exactly has Breeland shown us ... he is a patchy okay at time CB with the temprenent if a 4 year old ...

 

what really gets gets my back up about people who ONLY see the negative and whine about the last 20,25 years as if it makes a difference is the whining gets old - and I am not talking about anyone who shows any criticism... I am talking about people who moan like it’s their job... they see the tip of an ice cube in their drink and make it an iceberg ... 

 

seriosly get over yourselves this is a thread to talk about free agency ... you wanna whine about the FO feel free ... there is a thread in the stadium for that ... which is great because I don’t wanna read a whine fest so I never look there ... but stop polluting every single thread with this drivel ... if you are that starved of attention but a puppy ... 

 

sorry rant off