No Excuses Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 14 minutes ago, Larry said: Which they will blame on the Democrats, for not extending the temporary tax cuts. Just like they've done, successfully, for the last two decades. I really think things are going to be different this time. This tax bill is historically unpopular. The public backed Reagan and Bush tax cuts. This one is a massive stinker in popularity. It's certainly going to cost the GOP. Only about 20% of the country is buying the horsecrap that this is going to help the middle class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Not fact checked (by me) but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Judge Says Pennsylvania Election Districts Give Republicans an Edge, but Are Not Illegal Quote Judge P. Kevin Brobson of Commonwealth Court in Harrisburg noted that Republicans hold 13 out of 18 Congressional seats in Pennsylvania, a perennial swing state that has one of the most extensively gerrymandered maps in the country. Nonetheless, the judge said that Democrats who brought suit had failed to articulate a legal “standard” for creating nonpartisan maps. The case now goes to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, which has agreed to fast-track it. If the court rejects Judge Brobson’s conclusion, it could order new maps drawn in time for the 2018 midterm elections. Pennsylvania is expected to be fiercely fought terrain next year in elections turning on President Trump’s popularity. Mr. Trump’s 2016 victory in the state was the first for a Republican presidential candidate since 1988, but Republicans are already worried about losing Congressional seats even without new maps. In practical terms, Judge Brobson’s determination — in the form of a finding ordered by the State Supreme Court — is a recommendation, which the high court may affirm or reject. Five of the court’s seven justices are Democrats. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/29/us/pennsylvania-republicans-gerrymander.html?referer= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 So the judge ruled according to precedent.....imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, twa said: So the judge ruled according to precedent.....imagine that. Just a recommendation. The real decision is coming later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 22 hours ago, Cooked Crack said: Just a recommendation. The real decision is coming later. When a higher court (here the PA Supreme Court) tells a lower court to fast-track it, that often means that the higher court does not really care what the lower court has to say, they just want to run it through the proper channels as quickly as possible. FWIW, the lower court judge was a Republican. The PA Supreme Court is 2 Republicans and 5 Dems. Quote Republicans now fill 13 of Pennsylvania’s 18 seats in the U.S. House, despite winning roughly half of the statewide congressional vote in the three ensuing congressional elections held after the map took effect. There HAS to be a 14th Amendment issue when one party can get 50% of the vote but only 25% of the Reps. "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Just now, PleaseBlitz said: There HAS to be a 14th Amendment issue when one party can get 50% of the vote but only 25% of the Reps. "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers." Does the 14th apply to political parties now? add perhaps the issue being visited could result in 3rd parties access getting easier....never know these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 16 minutes ago, twa said: Does the 14th apply to political parties now? add perhaps the issue being visited could result in 3rd parties access getting easier....never know these days No, it applies to the number of voting citizens. Political parties just happen to be the people drawing the maps; maps which do not apportion representation in the Congress according to actual votes. The PA case is going to be decided under state law, I have no idea what the PA constitution says. We'll see. It just seems wrong that 50% of the voters in PA get 75% of the congressional representation because the maps were deliberately drawn to **** over the other 50%. Same thing in VA. Dems have won the vast majority of the previous statewide elections (Current Gov, next Gov, both Senators for years), but Rs have 7 of 11 congressional seats and, before this last landslide election, had 66% of the statehouse seats. Even in a landslide election, Dems can't win the house of delegates because of the way a map is drawn to disenfranchise NoVa residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 It was that way in the swing states that handed the election to Trump by 55k votes when Clinton won by almost 3 million popular votes. Decades in the making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said: It was that way in the swing states that handed the election to Trump by 55k votes when Clinton won by almost 3 million popular votes. Decades in the making. What? The discussion is gerrymandering, which has no effect on national or statewide elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 You want a strictly gerrymandering thread, start one. This thread is about all things 2018 election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 59 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: It was that way in the swing states that handed the election to Trump by 55k votes when Clinton won by almost 3 million popular votes. Decades in the making. ya swing a state by winning electors, whining liberals in large groups can be detrimental in such cases. 1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said: No, it applies to the number of voting citizens. It interesting they are trying the Kennedy gambit of the 1st to go with the 14th. probably go nowhere, but fun anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 7 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: There HAS to be a 14th Amendment issue when one party can get 50% of the vote but only 25% of the Reps. "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers." I used to think that. It certainly "feels right". But it's not true. What did it for me, was to imagine a state in which the entire state votes R 51% of the time, and completely uniformly. In such a state, no matter how you draw the districts, the state will vote 51% R, and the state's representation will be 100% R. Nah, it takes more than simply comparing total votes, to proclaim gerrymandering. 6 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said: It was that way in the swing states that handed the election to Trump by 55k votes when Clinton won by almost 3 million popular votes. Decades in the making. No, you don;t get to proclaim that the Republicans have gerrymandered state lines. (At least, not to me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I find it hypocritical for the Left to complain about fairly representing voters when Hillary had how many delegates wrapped up before the primaries even started. Both sides are crooked, just in different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I find it hypocritical for the Left to complain about fairly representing voters when Hillary had how many delegates wrapped up before the primaries even started. Both sides are crooked, just in different ways. By that logic she should have won in 2008 cause she had those delegates wrapped up too. Gerrymandering not really the same as a party primary. The sooner we get rid of it nationwide, the better we'll be in terms of representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: By that logic she should have won in 2008 cause she had those delegates wrapped up too. Gerrymandering not really the same as a party primary. The sooner we get rid of it nationwide, the better we'll be in terms of representation. The fact that you "cheated" but not enough to win doesnt mean you didnt still "cheat". Super delegates dont get their directions from voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Just now, Cooked Crack said: The sooner we get rid of it nationwide, the better we'll be in terms of representation. Party primaries? As someone in a court ordered gerrymandered district for the last couple of decades I'd be glad to see a better system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Geez, let's not rehash the Democratic Party primary rules, which anyone who signed up to run under the Party agreed to the Party rules. Sanders isn't even a Democrat, wasn't before and isn't now. Don't like the rules, then try to change them well before primary season. Or shut up about it. Gerrymandering is just one arrow in the Rep' voting manipulation arsenal. In the states, they can gerrymander the legislature, then install their voter supression tactics. Let's not be naive about this. It's been years in the making. Obama's two terms spoiled and delayed things a bit, after the Supremes handed 2000 to Bush 43when he too lost the popular vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 minute ago, LadySkinsFan said: Geez, let's not rehash the Democratic Party primary rules, Yeah, going to step back from this one. Not trying to bring it into 2018. 7 minutes ago, twa said: Party primaries? I'm still okay with those. Getting rid of those and you might end up with the general election being a primary in certain states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Geez, let's not rehash the Democratic Party primary rules, which anyone who signed up to run under the Party agreed to the Party rules. Sanders isn't even a Democrat, wasn't before and isn't now. Don't like the rules, then try to change them well before primary season. Or shut up about it. Gerrymandering is just one arrow in the Rep' voting manipulation arsenal. In the states, they can gerrymander the legislature, then install their voter supression tactics. Let's not be naive about this. It's been years in the making. Obama's two terms spoiled and delayed things a bit, after the Supremes handed 2000 to Bush 43when he too lost the popular vote. In my view, gerrymandering is wrong as are super delegates. But to me, its hard for the Left to try to claim this moral high ground when they do something similar by discounting the voice of the people. If you want to throw shade at one side, fix yours first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Gerrymandering is crap. Superdelegates are crap. They’re both crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said: In my view, gerrymandering is wrong as are super delegates. But to me, its hard for the Left to try to claim this moral high ground when they do something similar by discounting the voice of the people. If you want to throw shade at one side, fix yours first. You say this as if the voting base of the left likes super delegates. None of us want them. But your equivalence is completely off in another way. Super delegates are completely useless. Gerrymandering is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Superdelegates are an ingrown toenail. Gerrymandering is trenchfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 8:06 PM, TheGreatBuzz said: In my view, gerrymandering is wrong as are super delegates. But to me, its hard for the Left to try to claim this moral high ground when they do something similar by discounting the voice of the people. If you want to throw shade at one side, fix yours first. people on the left don't like super delegates The Democratic party likes Super Delegates. The left =/= Democratic party Gerrymandering isn't bad either. The GOP have abused Gerrymandering to the point that it doesn't come close to representing the people. Not in a party primary, but actual representation for US Congress and State legislatures. When abused, both are wrong, and when used correctly, both work. But clearly party primary races are much smaller than who is elected to legislative bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Oh for ****'s sake superdelegates have had 0 impact on the Democrat primary since they were put in place. Bernie lost, Bernie lost, Bernie lost. He only won lightly attended caucuses while Hillary crushed it in primaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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