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Election 2018 Thread (An Adult Finally Has the Gavel)

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Here is the calculus that Democrats in purple and red areas need to perform before they wade into culture wars: does the other side care more about this than my side?  That takes a true understanding of their culture and mindset.  I understand not everything can be about political expediency and there are matters of principle and civil rights on which you have to draw a line in the sand.  But being heavily pragmatic is the only way to compete in hostile territory.

 

That's the future Democrats have to prepare for in the Senate.  We're going to get dragged to the Right on a lot of things or else we're never going to control the Senate again.

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Again, as someone who lives in rural Appalachia, we are a lost cause. It bothers me to no end to accept that, I have lived here my entire life but, it's a fact. Our economy has died and we don't have enough people to force politicians to come here to campaign, it's pointless for the Democrats to come and the Republicans can do nothing and get our vote.

 

We are in the midst of a national crisis in rural Appalachia, nationally we are ignored and locally we do nothing to help ourselves.

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Here is Southeastern WI, we had referendums (exploratory questions on marijuana) Medical Use: approved, Taxation for local and state funding: approved, recreational use: approved, but not as strong, and decriminalization: approved. Had Walker remained the gov, this most likely wouldn't have gone anywhere, but now it actually may become a reality, and here, we are going to need it, because it looks like we are going to have to fight Michigan for them tourism (cannabis) dollars now.

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13 minutes ago, tshile said:

Yeah and neither am I so I ultimately don’t care either. 

 

Im happy with steam rolling then. But that requires dems to turn out. Something the liberals are always optimistic about but I’m always pessimistic about. 

 

The overall support for some trump policies in exit polling surprised me. Nothing about rural Va last night surprised me. 

 

Agree

 

 Virginia has figured it out. Texas and NC have the most potential to figure it out next

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37 minutes ago, mistertim said:

So what should the Dem/liberal approach be to get rural voters?

 

 

Well, it's 2 pronged.

 

1. Don't insult them for voting against their own interests. They don't care.

2. Don't put too much effort into going after them. You simply won't get the ROI there unless you say things you don't believe in. So, respectfully say they are welcome to come and learn more about what your policies are. But that's is.

 

Dems taking over all the pieces of a number of states should be a bigger deal. They'll be the states that challenge the admin. They need to set up stronger dark money and corruption laws. Stuff that Bullock has been pushing in Montana. Things that technically apply to everyone, but you know who really doesn't want it. 

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Relevant to what you guys are talking about, and maybe (probably) already mentioned, but Corey Stewart actually got 190,000 more votes in rural VA areas than Ed Gillespie did when he ran for Governor. 

 

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1 hour ago, tshile said:

 

That and they just flat out do not like liberal policies or liberals in VA. 

 

Go go figure you guys spend 23 months of the cycle **** talking them all, then Election Day can’t figure out why they won’t come to your side and instead support a lunatic racist. 

 

Politics is ugly on both sides of the aisle. Except liberals aren’t nominating a bunch of Marxist disciples because the GOP hurt their feelings.

 

”Liberals radicalized me” is a lazy excuse for what conservatives have done largely internally. The degradation of conservative politics can be traced back to the GOP establishment making a pact with the extreme fringes of its wing in 2010 and then being wholly incapable of reigning in the nutjobs. 

 

Case in point: Eric Cantor’s seat in VA now belongs to a liberal ex-CIA officer. Eric Cantor was one of the first scalps for the hard right in ousting moderate Republicans. Dave Brat lasted a grand total of 8 years. This year, the same hard right Republicans who supported Brat tried to paint the ex-CIA candidate as a stealth jihadist. Utterly insane and unhinged.

 

The party has lost its god damn mind and very little of that has anything to do with liberals. It’s an internal rot imo. They may not like us in NoVA, but we aren’t pushing them to vote for human turds every election cycle.

Edited by No Excuses
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You are talking about the party

 

I’m talking about the people and their votes. 

 

The liberals dont want their support (well some say they do but how they behave shows otherwise)

 

so theyre left with hard right candidates and libertarian third party candidates.

 

Or they could stay home and not vote at all. But, unlike our fellow dem supporters, they always show up to vote. Well, almost always. Even when their only candidate is Corey Stewart. 

Edited by tshile

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15 minutes ago, skinsfanfrombirth said:

Again, as someone who lives in rural Appalachia, we are a lost cause. It bothers me to no end to accept that, I have lived here my entire life but, it's a fact. Our economy has died and we don't have enough people to force politicians to come here to campaign, it's pointless for the Democrats to come and the Republicans can do nothing and get our vote.

 

We are in the midst of a national crisis in rural Appalachia, nationally we are ignored and locally we do nothing to help ourselves.

 

Really appreciate you adding you perspective on this.  In immediate sense, you may be right, though it will never change if dems stop trying to reach out.

 

Want to make a separate thread about Dems reaching out to rural areas.  You look at a map of this country, its jus too large to ignore the the right in rural areas. You can't have one half of the country think the other is the enemy and jus hope it goes away.

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Liberals objectively tend to be more educated, they tend to be more malleable when faced with facts or data that displaces their initial observations or even their personal beliefs. They tend to pursue the truth in good faith. 

 

So when someone says that the reason that rural regions of America are lost to Trump because liberals constantly point out their objective ignorance or objective stupidity, they are simply making a hopeful presumption (perhaps a hopeless one) that they too would research and investigate contrary claims in good faith. Facts are facts, regardless if it's delivered in a scathing rebuke or a polite exchange of words, quite frankly neither method has budged the stubborn ignorance of that demographic. For a group that feeds off "liberal tears" and mocks liberal empathy for their fellow man, they do seem to let their emotions alone guide their cognitive processes. It is not the responsibility of Democrats to coddle the fragile temperament of ignorant individuals, they would be voting R regardless until they have a self-realization. This is anecdotal evidence but many traditional Republican friends I have who became democratic did so after moving to an area of high diversity and/or getting a college education. My observation is that this demographic of individuals change their views on their own terms, regardless of how much the left insults them. 

Edited by The Caretaker
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1 minute ago, The Caretaker said:

Liberals objectively tend to be more educated, they tend to be more malleable when faced with facts or data that displaces their initial observations or even their personal beliefs. They tend to pursue the truth in good faith. 

 

So when someone says that the reason that rural regions of America are lost to Trump because liberals constantly point out their objective ignorance or objective stupidity, they are simply making a hopeful presumption (perhaps a hopeless one) that they too would research and investigate contrary claims in good faith. Facts are facts, regardless if it's delivered in a scathing rebuke or a polite exchange of words, quite frankly neither method has budged the stubborn ignorance of that demographic. For a group that feeds off "liberal tears" and mocks liberal empathy for their fellow man, they do seem to let their emotions alone guide their cognitive processes. It is not the responsibility of Democrats to coddle the fragile temperament of ignorant individuals, they would be voting R regardless until they have a self-realization. This is anecdotal evidence but many traditional of the Republican friends I have who became democratic did so after moving to an area of high diversity and/or getting a college education. My observation is that this demographic of individuals change their views on their own terms, regardless of how much the left insults them. 

 

So the left should continue to insult the people in rural areas and act confused as to why they don't do well in those areas...?  

 

It's just obvious that we'd be holding hands and singing in perfect harmony with a Coke if we all voted for Democrats.  I'm not sure why everyone can't understand that.

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6 minutes ago, tshile said:

Even when their only candidate is Corey Stewart. 

There are things called primaries. Corey Stewart didn't magically appear on the ballot.

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The key might be college education.

 

Whereas in the 1980s the GOP generally won or broke even with Democrats on that qualifier, now it's yuge to determine white voter (which rural America is extremely homogeneous) voting patterns.

 

Exit polling yesterday shows that 60+ % of non college educated white voters cast their ballot for the GOP. But only 45% of college educated white voters did the same. That should be frightening to the GOP if they continue to lose college educated white voters.

Edited by The Evil Genius
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54 minutes ago, skinsfanfrombirth said:

I read a lot here but, rarely, if ever post. I live in Virginia's most rural district, the 9th and thought I should weigh in on some of the comments here.

 

 

You should post more, my fellow Virginian.

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34 minutes ago, tshile said:

You are talking about the party

 

I’m talking about the people and their votes. 

 

The liberals dont want their support (well some say they do but how they behave shows otherwise)

 

so theyre left with hard right candidates and libertarian third party candidates. 

 

It's like they dont get they are saying the same thing about them right now, lost and no point in talking to them anymore.  DNC has right idea making sure to run in as many races as possible to at least try even if failure is obvious. 

 

It's two fold, really, those votes add up no matter where they com from, and if dems dont say their message themselves, GOP get to say it for them.  Even if they lose elections, it's still not putting them all in a box and wanting to step on it like they do us.

Edited by Renegade7
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28 minutes ago, skinsfanfrombirth said:

Again, as someone who lives in rural Appalachia, we are a lost cause. It bothers me to no end to accept that, I have lived here my entire life but, it's a fact. Our economy has died and we don't have enough people to force politicians to come here to campaign, it's pointless for the Democrats to come and the Republicans can do nothing and get our vote.

 

We are in the midst of a national crisis in rural Appalachia, nationally we are ignored and locally we do nothing to help ourselves.

It’s like I wrote this myself.

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47 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

Those people are forever gone. The key is existing Democrats need to stop being so damn lazy and show up for each election. 

 

I would have agreed with you a few days ago but I'm not sure any more.  The Democrats won a lot of seats in rural areas in the midwest that are a lot whiter than they are in the South.  They did it just by sticking to issues (healthcare, roads, schools) and ignoring Trump and the culture fights.

 

I didn't think there was a pathway for compromise candidates before, but there is.  People somehow like both Trump and the Democratic agenda.

 

I think the party made the right choice in these areas and that future of the party is in painting themselves as the centrists who make things better for the working class and get things done when they have power and steering clear of the culture fights that Donald Trump wants to pick.  The people who vote want compromise.  I know it doesn't seem like it.  It seems like we are super polarized.  But the candidates who did well in red/purple areas were compromisers and keep it local campaigners like Beto and Gretchen Whitner.

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1 hour ago, ClaytoAli said:

I gues the POTUS doesn’t realize that the Senate Repus will use the Congress to cover their opposition to him now.

 

I wondered if anyone else was getting that vibe. I hope its true. 

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4 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

There are things called primaries. Corey Stewart didn't magically appear on the ballot.

 

Only activists vote in those for state races.  I think people have been right that primaries are making everyone think that Republican base is more conservative than it actually is.  It won't help in a presidential, but this disconnect gives Democrats space to poach offices in more localized elections.  Maybe even Senate races.

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7 minutes ago, tshile said:

You are talking about the party

 

I’m talking about the people and their votes. 

 

The liberals dont want their support (well some say they do but how they behave shows otherwise)

 

so theyre left with hard right candidates and libertarian third party candidates.

 

Or they could stay home and not vote at all. But, unlike our fellow dem supporters, they always show up to vote. Well, almost always. Even when their only candidate is Corey Stewart. 

The other side of this, and I think it's one that's being poorly stated, is that we on the left want you on the right to have better candidates. Once upon a time, there were some damn smart, capable, creative, and dedicated people on the right in office. Now, the candidates, by and large, all seem to be extremist profiteering ideologues who are tied to racist and White Nationalist groups. We disagreed with you, but we respected you and sometimes had to tip our cap, admitting you had the better argument. Now, your candidates are, for the most part, short-sighted rats.

 

See, I don't think the problem is really the voter. If they want to vote red that's okay, but find some people worth voting for. The cream of the Republican crop is not King. Somewhere in Conservative America there must still be good minds that are not racist, not economically irresponsible, and not toadying lemmings. Raise those guys and gals up and vote for them and stop voting for ideological jerks hell bent on screwing the future and present of the country.

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9 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

So the left should continue to insult the people in rural areas and act confused as to why they don't do well in those areas...?  

 

It's just obvious that we'd be holding hands and singing in perfect harmony with a Coke if we all voted for Democrats.  I'm not sure why everyone can't understand that.

It really is that simple... except I've never really liked Coke.

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6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

It's like they dont get they are saying the same thing about them right now,

 

There seems to be three type of people participating in this conversation:

- those that get it

- those that don’t care about appealing to them nor act surprised at how they vote and think those of us that get it are trying to chide them into codling rural Virginians (they don’t get it)

- those that do care or act surprised and don’t understand why “you’re just too dumb to know your own best interest. Also you’re a racist and sexist for having the political opinions you have” doesn’t seem to be working 

 

you just have to ignore the middle group. They don’t seem to know we’re not talking to them. Or they do and they just want to get their shots in anyways. 

Edited by tshile
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