The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Spearfeather]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

My point was that Francis isn't a high level player with the ability to just sign wherever he pleases.  So I'm not following you on how he has so many choices or what the picture of him signing autographs as a Skin has to do with his assessment of Bruce.

 

He might not have the ability to sign " wherever he pleases ", but he certainly has the ability to sign with teams other than the one with the

" asshole GM " and the " racist logo " that he signed with four times.  

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

44 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

He might not have the ability to sign " wherever he pleases ", but he certainly has the ability to sign with teams other than the one with the

" asshole GM " and the " racist logo " that he signed with four times.  

 

Are you his agent?  Otherwise I find all that very hard to believe.  He's just not that good of a player.

 

I get that it appears he's got sour grapes.  But he's certainly not the first person to take a job, keep his mouth shut and then run his mouth when time's up. 

 

 

[Spearfeather]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Are you his agent?  Otherwise I find all that very hard to believe. 

 

Considering he's played with five other teams and found another one not long after he left here ... I don't.

 

Edit: And he's 28, not 34 for example.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Spearfeather said:

 

Considering he's played with five other teams and found another one not long after he left here ... I don't.

For a guy his age, bouncing around that much pretty much tells the entire story.  I find it very hard to believe that he keeps signing here because he thought Bruce and the gang were swell and only when they let him go the final time he decides to turn heel and call the guy an Ahole.  I'd imagine he kept signing here because it seemed like the best option to play out of the minimal options he had.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Geez, there's no context for the "Bruce Allen is an asshole" comment so it could be about anything. Could be about negotiations or maybe something in the guy's contract that cost him money. Or maybe just the fact that he was let go (or not resigned, whichever)...an assistant coach could have told him that he wanted him to stay but it was Allen's decision to move on. Who the hell knows. I only doubt that Francis had many opportunities to interact with Allen to a degree that would allow him to assess his level of assholeness lol...unlike Scot, who probably sought out interactions with players on a regular basis outside of contract negotiations, Bruce seems far more distant. I remember when he first arrived here, one of the first things he implemented was to have Snyder's receptionist or assistant turn away any players who wanted to talk directly with the owner. I even think the player was given instruction to go down and talk to Allen instead. So yeah...no....I don't think Allen is a "player's GM". So I don't doubt that there are some who feel he's an asshole for one reason or another. I'm positive there are players who feel/felt Belichick is an asshole, but when you win as much as he does who gives a **** lol....you can't be an asshole and lose.

 

 

EDIT: and why is the word "asshole" not censored, but pea**** gets the ellipses treatment lol...

[Skinsinparadise]

Not directed at Califan's post above.  I get his point that you can be an a-hole and still be good at what you do (don't think this point applies to Bruce but I agree with the general thought) and also agree that Francis is clearly embittered.  And also agree from from what we hear Bruce is somewhat aloof with the players.  Though the one practice I was at -- Bruce was watching it all closely and talked to some guys.  

 

Having said that, can't resist weighing in,  considering some of Bruce's other critics -- I suspect that it is unlikely a wild misunderstanding taken out of context.  I am sure Francis meant it in the nicest way you can use the word.

 

Back to Califan, we are both familiar with Chris Russell's take on Bruce/Scot and the whole drill.  in that context, he thinks Scot needed to go.  But he also said according to people that he spoke to that Bruce can be quite the douche and isn't loved by all in that building.  Others have said similar things. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I was just listening to Chris Russell who seems to be the hottest of late in terms of getting right as to what's going on in the FO.

 

And I loved what he just said.  He said from what he's heard of late, Bruce's power lately has been diminished behind the scenes -- though he says he still has plenty of power.  And he thinks Kyle could be the GM in waiting. 

 

If this is going on, wonder what has triggered this considering there doesn't seem to be much going on this off season -- maybe the new hires?  Occupied with the stadium?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was just listening to Chris Russell who seems to be the hottest of late in terms of getting right as to what's going on in the FO.

 

And I loved what he just said.  He said from what he's heard of late, Bruce's power lately has been diminished behind the scenes -- though he says he still has plenty of power.  And he thinks Kyle could be the GM in waiting. 

 

If this is going on, wonder what has triggered this considering there doesn't seem to be much going on this off season -- maybe the new hires?  Occupied with the stadium?

 

What you just summarized concisely in a paragraph that took me 10 seconds to read, I imagine took Russell several minutes, digressions, and likely a commercial break to spit out. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

What you just summarized concisely in a paragraph that took me 10 seconds to read, I imagine took Russell several minutes, digressions, and likely a commercial break to spit out. 

 

Typically that's true.  But he got it out pretty fast this time.   I noticed 106.7 is really going low key on Redskins coverage since the period where the Caps were in the postseason through now.   I presume they will pick up once camp starts.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If this is going on, wonder what has triggered this considering there doesn't seem to be much going on this off season -- maybe the new hires?  Occupied with the stadium?

There were rumblings several months ago that the minority owners were not happy with Bruce Allen.  It's very possible they could be leaning on Dan about the way things are being ran and prompting moves to be made.  It's also possible that Dan actually is maturing and seeing the light - let's hope that's the case.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There were rumblings several months ago that the minority owners were not happy with Bruce Allen.  It's very possible they could be leaning on Dan about the way things are being ran and prompting moves to be made.  It's also possible that Dan actually is maturing and seeing the light - let's hope that's the case.

 

In a way, this is unfortunate for Snyder. Granted, he is accountable for how his hires turn out (that's the price of running the show). But in his defense, he was trying to do the right thing when he brought Bruce Allen in. And, he's seemed to get out of the way and turn operations over to him. Rewind to 2009...that's EXACTLY what I was screaming for him to do: hire an established football exec and let the guy run the organization without interference and without a short leash. 

 

He just made an underwhelming, at best, hire. Hopefully when and if he brings in someone else to be that guy, he either lets some of the new folks help him pick or he hires some sort of consultant to assist in the search. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

In a way, this is unfortunate for Snyder. Granted, he is accountable for how his hires turn out (that's the price of running the show). But in his defense, he was trying to do the right thing when he brought Bruce Allen in. And, he's seemed to get out of the way and turn operations over to him. Rewind to 2009...that's EXACTLY what I was screaming for him to do: hire an established football exec and let the guy run the organization without interference and without a short leash. 

There is a reason it's out there that RG3 and McNabb were Dan's ideas that Bruce and Mike allowed to let fly.  So even though he appeared to have turned over a new leaf by hiring Bruce in 2009, it sounds like he hadn't fully learned the lesson that his football ideas suck and should just let the professionals work.  Perhaps he is totally out of the picture nowadays, but then again it's possible that Bruce takes the bullets for him.  I venture a guess though that the last straw for the minority owners was last offseasons combination of the Scot fiasco and the butt-fumble like handling of Kirk.  Dan really should have pulled the trigger at that time.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There is a reason it's out there that RG3 and McNabb were Dan's ideas that Bruce and Mike allowed to let fly.  

 

I guess I forgot about those rumors, but that does ring a bell. That's what I get for trying to give that man the benefit of the doubt. 

[Skinsinparadise]

ESPN did a ranking of teams projected in the future, Redskins ranked #24, its an insider article so I can't post it.  Some highlights.

 

Why they're here: The Redskins have quarterback clarity for the future for the first time in a long time, as Alex Smith is the man going forward following a clumsy handling of the Kirk Cousins contract saga. The roster is not bereft of talent -- established or young -- but there is concern about this front office. The Cousins contract situation did not inspire a ton of confidence, but moreover, this is a front office in which questions persist specific to team president Bruce Allen. -- Yates

 

What could change for the better: We gave the Redskins very low marks for their...front office. That outlook could change for the better if the team hires a strong GM... -- Sando

[carex]

On 7/12/2018 at 3:39 PM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I guess I forgot about those rumors, but that does ring a bell. That's what I get for trying to give that man the benefit of the doubt. 

 

of course those rumors let fans keep bashing Snyder while the alternative doesn't

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, carex said:

 

of course those rumors let fans keep bashing Snyder while the alternative doesn't

Yeah, because bashing Snyder is so fun.  Not sure I could live without it.  

 

We wouldnt much prefer for the owner of our favorite team to be competent and build a winning culture or anything. That’d be silly.

[OVCChairman]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yeah, because bashing Snyder is so fun.  Not sure I could live without it.  

 

We wouldnt much prefer for the owner of our favorite team to be competent and build a winning culture or anything. That’d be silly.

 

 

As much as it pains me, I feel like a certain sector of fans don't think along the same lines you do.  That they've got a predetermined opinion of Snyder, and they're quick to find any hole in any plan or action he takes, regardless of the outcome.  Its like that movie Major League.  The team is terrible so Randy Quaid's character gives up and turns on the team.  The Indians make a push for the playoffs and he continues to boo and be anti-team while all the fans around him are getting excited.  Now he eventually comes around, and only time will tell if the most cynical fans change their tune of Snyder and co if he ever finds his way to success... but a part of me thinks there is a segment of this fanbase who will NEVER support anything Snyder does, regardless of the outcome.  

 

[HOF44]

6 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

but a part of me thinks there is a segment of this fanbase who will NEVER support anything Snyder does, regardless of the outcome.  

I used to try and find the good in Snyder, I was one of those that said he spends on players and tries kind of supporters.  But I'm over it.  He creates a toxic workplace, makes terrible decisions, and manages to turn everything he gets involved with to crap.  I firmly believe now that with him as owner we will never be a consistent winning team.  He just doesn't have it in him.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

26 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

I used to try and find the good in Snyder, I was one of those that said he spends on players and tries kind of supporters.  But I'm over it.  He creates a toxic workplace, makes terrible decisions, and manages to turn everything he gets involved with to crap.  I firmly believe now that with him as owner we will never be a consistent winning team.  He just doesn't have it in him.  

My sentiments exactly. There are probably posts from me several years ago touting that at least Snyder wants to win, will spend money, etc.  But after so much time, so many situations, you’ve got to call a spade a spade.

 

I did credit him with hiring the dude from the NFL office as it was nice to see an outsider brought into his fold.  But even then, that feels like it’s about ticket sales with the new stadium looming.  But I’ll take it, it atleast shows that he can see and smell the fire around him to some level.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, HOF44 said:

I used to try and find the good in Snyder, I was one of those that said he spends on players and tries kind of supporters.  But I'm over it.  He creates a toxic workplace, makes terrible decisions, and manages to turn everything he gets involved with to crap.  I firmly believe now that with him as owner we will never be a consistent winning team.  He just doesn't have it in him.  

 

 

I fully get that, and I'm not even saying I disagree with you.  At this point, I in my heart have the same questions, and have my own doubts that we will ever become a winning franchise as long as he's in charge.  I'm not necessarily referring to fans in your position, I'm more looking at the fans who clearly are closed minded in thinking that Snyder is evil and can never do any good, regardless of how successful the team is.  I will freely admit that Snyder has (on the surface) appeared to do what all fans have wanted him to do, and that's hand the football ops over to a football guy who has experience.  His downfall is that Allen is the guy he did it with, and it clearly didnt change the direction of the franchise.  I think over the last 12 months, Snyder has taken another step in the right direction.  Allen's responsibilities have diminished, and people have been put in place.  We have 2 legit front office up and comers that (from what I've heard) are destined to be high level execs in the future... Now this is all just anticipation on my part, but I have to freely admit that I like the direction that the team is going in.  

 

We wanted to address the trenches via the draft and development.  As it stands right now, 4 / 5 starters on the O-line, and 2/3 (if you go by the 'base' 3-4 formation) starters on the D-line were drafted.... that's assuming McGee starts the season but is likely to get supplanted by one of the young bucks we drafted.  

 

We've been very selective in our free agency, and have not had a BIG contract written since Josh Norman who was a product of opportunity.  

 

We have stability at the QB position with a very capable player.  Albeit not the 'guy' we all wanted to have here for the future in Kirk Cousins, and the events causing that divorce are in large part due to our own FO, but we also didnt get desperate and handcuff the team to try to save face in the headlines. 

 

We've had clear and decisive ideas about player contracts and negotiations, and what would appear to be a bigger picture plan in place regarding the signing of people like Gallette and Bree.  Both of those guys had a lot of fan support, but the F.O. appeared to have a better idea than we did, now that we see 2 of our top FAs in this class are still sitting at home without a contract in place.  

 

Looking at this direction, it would appear on the surface to me, that Snyder is letting football people run the football team, and he's at least attempting to surround himself with people that are smarter than him.. something that a good manager needs to do.  These are all moves that the team made, that I'm sure he had VERY LITTLE influence on, because they're football moves made by football people.  

 

 

EDIT:  That all said, not once have I ever said or felt any level of pride or happiness that he owns the team... 

[carex]

57 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

As much as it pains me, I feel like a certain sector of fans don't think along the same lines you do.  That they've got a predetermined opinion of Snyder, and they're quick to find any hole in any plan or action he takes, regardless of the outcome.  Its like that movie Major League.  The team is terrible so Randy Quaid's character gives up and turns on the team.  The Indians make a push for the playoffs and he continues to boo and be anti-team while all the fans around him are getting excited.  Now he eventually comes around, and only time will tell if the most cynical fans change their tune of Snyder and co if he ever finds his way to success... but a part of me thinks there is a segment of this fanbase who will NEVER support anything Snyder does, regardless of the outcome.  

 

 

yes, thank you for putting it into words.  This is exactly how I feel.  I think there's a lot of fandoms ou there now that actually carry a similar attitude

[Morneblade]

34 minutes ago, carex said:

 

yes, thank you for putting it into words.  This is exactly how I feel.  I think there's a lot of fandoms ou there now that actually carry a similar attitude

 

I'm not sure I agree. Dan has to first do something that works well.

I'll be blunt. I think Dan Snyder is a @##hat. But I thought that the Allen hire COULD work out ok, if he was just a PR guy and numbers guy. So, I was willing to give Dan some slack, even though most days I want to beat him with a 9 iron. And I think the vast majority of fans think the same way, the Redskins as a football team come way before hating Snyder. Now, there is likely a small portion thinks like this, but it's not a lot of people.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I'm not sure I agree. Dan has to first do something that works well.

Right.

 

This is right up there with “the team could win 11 games...” and “make the NFC championship...” scenarios we hear about every single offseason from Dan’s defense counsel on the board.  Still waiting on that 11 win season so they can see how Dan’s detractors respond.

[carex]

18 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Right.

 

This is right up there with “the team could win 11 games...” and “make the NFC championship...” scenarios we hear about every single offseason from Dan’s defense counsel on the board.  Still waiting on that 11 win season so they can see how Dan’s detractors respond.

 

There is only so much the owner can do to produce a winning season.  The Redskins have tried every player acquisition style available, none have had the results fans want.  So fans are now creating evidence to justify the hatred

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

41 minutes ago, carex said:

 

There is only so much the owner can do to produce a winning season.  The Redskins have tried every player acquisition style available, none have had the results fans want.  So fans are now creating evidence to justify the hatred

 

Gotta give it to you, that’s the most outlandish take I’ve seen yet in defending Dan.  Fans are “creating evidence”.  When’s the Netflix special, “Making a Bad Owner” being released?