Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Because its easier to be a fan of the team, when it isn't the team's fault, but the greedy player's fault. Many here are considering walking away from their 45 year fandom because of what's been witnessed and tolerated the last 20 years or so. Many here are just not that at that point yet. I salute them for their fortitude. But to maintain their fandom, it has to be someone else's fault.

Spot on, my friend.

 

Historically, fans primarily take the side of the team vs. the player.  Which I've always found strange considering most people work for large corporations where they don't have high opinions of the executives.  But for some reason with sports, fans always find reasons to take the side of the team.  It's the player who's always greedy, a traitor and/or prick.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you know that Snyder and Allen could have prevented that by offering KC a contract respectful to a player that they chose to franchise so that another team could not make him that offer, especially by the 2nd year.

 

There's a reason that no other team has used it twice and KC didn't try to pull a Leveon Bell either time.

 

Of course it has to be because he's greedy though no NFL player prefers a 1 year contract over an actual real contract.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Spot on, my friend.

 

Historically, fans primarily take the side of the team vs. the player.  Which I've always found strange considering most people work for large corporations where they don't have high opinions of the executives.  But for some reason with sports, fans always find reasons to take the side of the team.  It's the player who's always greedy, a traitor and/or prick.

 

Not this time for me. Team’s fault all the way. But I’m not following Kirk to another team, nor am I mad at him. I’ll still root for the Redskins, but doesn’t mean I can’t smell the stench.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

 

Not this time for me. Team’s fault all the way. But I’m not following Kirk to another team, nor am I mad at him. I’ll still root for the Redskins, but doesn’t mean I can’t smell the stench.

I didn't necessarily mean as far as following a player elsewhere.  I just meant taking sides in disputes in general. 

 

I get that the team is an investment that many of us have invested so much time, energy and money into just to walk away at this point.  But it doesn't mean that I can't look at my investments performance and be objective.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Quoting this just so some folks that need to read and absorb this do it a second time.

 

Because I've seen people cling to Bruce being not so bad because he actually prioritizes the draft unlike Vinny.  I agree that Bruce's philosophy towards the draft is better than that of Vinny. 

 

I believe Bruce prioritize draft because rookies are cheaper than seasoned vet.

He has no actual team vision, and rules it with financial numbers in mind.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I get that the team is an investment that many of us have invested so much time, energy and money into just to walk away at this point.  But it doesn't mean that I can't look at my investments performance and be objective.

 

The reason why it's the final straw for me (With the SnyderSkins) is that we've always said and actually believed that if Snyder could just get a QB we'd be able to compete and make the playoffs every year. While ignoring that other parts need to be at least functional for it to work.

 

Teams just don't go to the playoffs and win with a group of RBs that put up 1200 total yards and 5 total TDs in addition to low 20s ranked D's and laughable STs. Even if KC could make effective Wrs out of scrubs, which he did when they weren't dropping footballs.

 

So now finally having a potential top 2-3 Qb in the league (and with the support guys like Roethlisberger, Brady, and Brees have right now he clearly would already be) it is very apparent that this team will never put everything together so that we'd win a SB with Cousins.

 

Or Brady, or Brees, or Rodgers, or anybody really. Definitely not Roethlisberger or Smith or Keenum who couldn't win with elites all over their rosters.

 

It requires a QB usually to win but it also requires at least competence everywhere else, just ask Aaron Rodgers who at least still has 2 of the top NFL Wrs and can't sniff a SB since 2010.

 

Also, IMO Allen just made his career ending mistake (if that's possible) not by letting KC go because Snyder was on board with that, but by trading for Smith. He's going to mediocre so hard that Snyders going to get major Brad Johnson flashbacks and probably scrap the whole thing for 2019. 

 

Of course that also probably means they'll finally go try to find a real RB and a receiving threat this year with all that saved money (lol) but that'll be a whole lot of new parts added to an offense and expecting them to all work out? Sorry, don't see it.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So again why does he get any benefit of doubt when it comes to fumbling situations like Kirk?  He hasn't earned it.

 

Yep.  The QB rodeo isn't the first for him.  It was a disaster in Tampa.  That actually was part of my concern with Jay when he arrived - the whole musical chairs-QB craziness that happened in Tampa under Jon.   Bruce was the one from what Shanny said figured out the compensation for the McNabb trade and RG3 trade.  We had the Beck-Rex rodeo.  The canning of Shanny related to the RG3 fiasco.  And all the nonsense around Kirk.

 

Forgetting all the bad moves -- think of all the crazy noise around all of it:  McNabb, RG3, Kirk.  

 

3 hours ago, Burgold said:

It's not so much that this is Bruce's first draft though I get why you get that impression... It's that it's his first draft with the 'skins where he has absolutely no excuses. There's no Shanny is the guy contractually in full control of the draft and free agency. There's no Scott McCloughan is the brain behind this draft and free agency. This is Bruce Allen's FO and baby. He can't shovel the credit or blame to anyone. It's his team, his draft, and his responsibility.

 

Can he succeed without Shanny or Scott's board, guidance, and scouting? Can he pull off a second good draft in a row?

 

I agree with the no excuses.  But my thing with Bruce is I don't see the dude as relevant to the draft since he's not the one making the picks by most accounts.  So for me specific to the draft its does Bruce trust Kyle Smith to make the calls and stay out of his way.   The more I think about it -- I do have some hope squarely on the draft side of the equation because of Jay's involvement.   I don't get the sense Bruce is relevant to the draft one way or another.

 

My favorite example of it ironically centered on Kendall Fuller.  Cooley had Bruce on his show after they drafted him and questioned his college tape.  Bruce sounded lost.  He wasn't ready to debate the tape.  It's not his thing.  So he goes well Chris have you met Fuller?  Chris goes yeah i am sure he's a great guy but that's not my question. 

 

As Mike Lombardi said multiple times, he's worked with Bruce, he isn't a personnel guy.  The debate about Bruce to me is do we need a real personnel guy heading personnel?  Under Vinny the model was having a bad personnel guy judging personnel with a heavy dose of Danny mixed in.  Now, we got a nonpersonnel guy overseeing personnel. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The debate about Bruce to me is do we need a real personnel guy heading personnel?  Under Vinny the model was having a bad personnel guy judging personnel with a heavy dose of Danny mixed in.  Now, we got a nonpersonnel guy overseeing personnel. 

 

I think we need a President of Football Operations role under Snyder that is a peer to Bruce Allen. He should have full authority on building the roster, overseeing scouting and free agency, etc. But, he shouldn't answer to Allen and Allen shouldn't answer to him. 

 

If Allen wants to move training camp back to Carlisle, PA or build the stadium on a private island in the Potomac, that's his stuff to deal with. He can set up the charities and win off the field all day, every day. If <President of Football Operations> wants to hire a GM, fire a coach, or decide we'll run the wishbone...that's his stuff.

 

Both roles should be independent and answer to Snyder.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

  The debate about Bruce to me is do we need a real personnel guy heading personnel? 

 

How is that a debate?  The answer is "yes" and it doesn't matter what franchise or sport you are talking about.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I think we need a President of Football Operations role under Snyder that is a peer to Bruce Allen. He should have full authority on building the roster, overseeing scouting and free agency, etc. But, he shouldn't answer to Allen and Allen shouldn't answer to him. 

I would agree here, but I believe Bruce Allen will disagree and doesn't want this to happen.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I think we need a President of Football Operations role under Snyder that is a peer to Bruce Allen. He should have full authority on building the roster, overseeing scouting and free agency, etc. But, he shouldn't answer to Allen and Allen shouldn't answer to him. 

 

If Allen wants to move training camp back to Carlisle, PA or build the stadium on a private island in the Potomac, that's his stuff to deal with. He can set up the charities and win off the field all day, every day. If <President of Football Operations> wants to hire a GM, fire a coach, or decide we'll run the wishbone...that's his stuff.

 

Both roles should be independent and answer to Snyder.  

 

 In a perfect world, yes.

But we all know Allen will fight that tooth and nail, behind closed doors, because he knows damn well that if word gets out about him lobbying for more team / player involvement there will be a meltdown with fans. Snyder isn't a stupid man, just hard-headed and driven. I'm not trying to defend him, but he just has no idea on what to do with the situation; I'm sure he's heard an earful from fans and others about Bruce for years, but doesn't know what to do, because the one person he put his trust in is the main problem. Who does he turn to ?

 

But he HAS to do something, because fans are going mad over the entire process and how things have been turning out. He needs a personal consultant, one who doesn't answer to anyone nor knows anyone, especially Bruce Allen. Thing is, Bruce has had his fingers in so many cookie jars around the league its hard to find someone who COULD be objective.

But the bottom line remains, Snyder has to make a move, and a big one, soon.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I think we need a President of Football Operations role under Snyder that is a peer to Bruce Allen. He should have full authority on building the roster, overseeing scouting and free agency, etc. But, he shouldn't answer to Allen and Allen shouldn't answer to him. 

 

Bruce Allen would eat him alive. This hypothetical President of Football Operations would be too involved with his job, too busy making the team a winner to see the knife driving towards his back. This isn't a front office where a true football man can survive much less thrive with cutthroats and politicians infesting its halls.

Edited by BurgundyBooger
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, skins island connection said:

Snyder isn't a stupid man, just hard-headed and driven. I'm not trying to defend him, but he just has no idea on what to do with the situation; I'm sure he's heard an earful from fans and others about Bruce for years, but doesn't know what to do, because the one person he put his trust in is the main problem. Who does he turn to ?

 

Come on man.

 

Let's get real. 

 

If he did exactly what Haslam just did (after only owning his team for 5 years) about 95% of the fans would actually think that the Redskins have a shot.

 

And he has to know this or he is a lot more stupid than you or any of us want to believe.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said:

 

Bruce Allen would eat him alive. This hypothetical President of Football Operations would be too involved with his job, too busy making the team a winner to see the knife driving towards his back. This isn't a front office where a true football man can survive much less thrive with cutthroats and politicians infesting its halls.

 

13 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 In a perfect world, yes.

But we all know Allen will fight that tooth and nail, behind closed doors, because he knows damn well that if word gets out about him lobbying for more team / player involvement there will be a meltdown with fans. Snyder isn't a stupid man, just hard-headed and driven. I'm not trying to defend him, but he just has no idea on what to do with the situation; I'm sure he's heard an earful from fans and others about Bruce for years, but doesn't know what to do, because the one person he put his trust in is the main problem. Who does he turn to ?

 

But he HAS to do something, because fans are going mad over the entire process and how things have been turning out. He needs a personal consultant, one who doesn't answer to anyone nor knows anyone, especially Bruce Allen. Thing is, Bruce has had his fingers in so many cookie jars around the league its hard to find someone who COULD be objective.

But the bottom line remains, Snyder has to make a move, and a big one, soon.

 

16 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

I would agree here, but I believe Bruce Allen will disagree and doesn't want this to happen.

 

I don't believe this structure should take a "perfect world" at all. Bruce Allen doesn't own the team. At any time, Dan Snyder can tell him what his role is, what the reporting structure will look like, and give him the option to accept it or walk. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't believe this structure should take a "perfect world" at all. Bruce Allen doesn't own the team. At any time, Dan Snyder can tell him what his role is, what the reporting structure will look like, and give him the option to accept it or walk. 

I agree that it should be an easy fix for Dan.  I think their point is that its been clear for a long time now that Bruce wears the pants in that relationship.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree that it should be an easy fix for Dan.  I think their point is that its been clear for a long time now that Bruce wears the pants in that relationship.

 

I'm not sure about that. I think sometimes Snyder is just overcompensating to refute the last criticism. He was criticized for not hiring a football executive and also for being too reactionary. So, he hired Allen and has now given him 7-8 years without getting in the way. I don't think that means Allen wears the pants so much as Snyder is probably just trying to do what he believes is the right thing. In some ways, I can understand that logic. 

 

In the end though, my main comment to the three posts I quoted is that I think we fans make this seem much harder than it is and make this job seem much more unique than it is. Every organization (sports and in life) has obstacles to success. Egos, desire for power, back-stabbing, etc. It's the job of the person running the entire operation to knock down those barriers and set a path with the least dysfunctional culture possible. We aren't unique. We aren't different. It's not any tougher with the Redskins than it was with the Patriots in 2000 or the Saints in 2006 or the Packers in 1992. We just haven't had the owner and others in charge figure it out yet. 

Edited by TD_washingtonredskins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 It's the job of the person running the entire operation to knock down those barriers and set a path with the least dysfunctional culture possible. We aren't unique. We aren't different. It's not any tougher with the Redskins than it was with the Patriots in 2000 or the Saints in 2006 or the Packers in 1992. We just haven't had the owner and others in charge figure it out yet. 

No disagreement from me there.

 

Part of what makes things weird here are the folks that have been here through several regimes.  We've never actually had a real top to bottom house cleaning.  It's like when Scot was hired and they said he planned to keep everyone on and wasn't bringing in any of his guys.  The record skipped for me on that.  That literally never happens anywhere.  It was the first sign for me that him being the GM was a mirage.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No disagreement from me there.

 

Part of what makes things weird here are the folks that have been here through several regimes.  We've never actually had a real top to bottom house cleaning.  It's like when Scot was hired and they said he planned to keep everyone on and wasn't bringing in any of his guys.  The record skipped for me on that.  That literally never happens anywhere.  It was the first sign for me that him being the GM was a mirage.

 

That's a good observation. You have to wonder again if that's Snyder thinking he's doing "the right thing" without truly understanding that he's possibly hamstringing the people he's bringing in. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True or not true -- this is the kind of stuff that brings me back to the Vinny era.  Is the organization run by dummies?  The soap-opera-clown show.   Whether its deserved or not, things again give the vibe of being off the rails.  Silva isn't some genius but he's the key guy at rotoworld so he has plenty of people who follow what he says.   The biggest thing I thought that would change when Vinny left would be our FO wouldn't be mocked anymore.  Even if Bruce was just pedestrian as a front office guy at least the dude can talk and present the team in a professional way.  Dan would be mocked but not the FO guy.

 

That's my biggest disappointment with Bruce -- he has brought his own brand of comedic fodder to the rest of the league where when I get into conversations with people who like other teams -- I have to almost apologize, chuckle and then explain why I like the Redskins.

 

 

I try to ignore hypothetical scenarios that are just completely unrealistic. I also have heard from several league execs that Bruce Allen is a legit dumb guy. Just a henchman for Snyder at this point

1 reply1 retweet4 likes
 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hating with H8: Bruce Allen Edition

(be aware profanity inside :ph34r:)

"Bruce Allen said Scot McCloughan would be back at work after he dealt with his grandmother’s death. He lied.

Bruce Allen said getting a deal done with Kirk was easy. He lied.

Bruce Allen said Scot McCloughan would be in charge of personnel. He lied.

Bruce Allen was jealous of the praise Scot McCloughan received. He’s a ****.

Bruce Allen thinks Kirk Cousins is a product of his own hand-picked coach’s genius and his roster building acumen, not worthy of top dollar. He’s an idiot."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

True or not true -- this is the kind of stuff that brings me back to the Vinny era.  Is the organization run by dummies?  The soap-opera-clown show.   Whether its deserved or not, things again give the vibe of being off the rails.  Silva isn't some genius but he's the key guy at rotoworld so he has plenty of people who follow what he says.   The biggest thing I thought that would change when Vinny left would be our FO wouldn't be mocked anymore.  Even if Bruce was just pedestrian as a front office guy at least the dude can talk and present the team in a professional way.  Dan would be mocked but not the FO guy.

 

That's my biggest disappointment with Bruce -- he has brought his own brand of comedic fodder to the rest of the league where when I get into conversations with people who like other teams -- I have to almost apologize, chuckle and then explain why I like the Redskins.

 

 

I try to ignore hypothetical scenarios that are just completely unrealistic. I also have heard from several league execs that Bruce Allen is a legit dumb guy. Just a henchman for Snyder at this point

1 reply1 retweet4 likes
 

 

 

 

Just to set the context, I think "legit dumb" is extremely relative here. It wouldn't surprise me if Allen isn't considered nearly intelligent enough to run one of 32 NFL organizations. But, in the population of the country, he's still probably in the top 1-2% if that makes sense. The people who run the successful sports organizations are legitimately brilliant. I would not be shocked at all to find out that Allen is not. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's my biggest disappointment with Bruce -- he has brought his own brand of comedic fodder to the rest of the league where when I get into conversations with people who like other teams -- I have to almost apologize, chuckle and then explain why I like the Redskins.

 

But bro, he values the draft. :rofl89:

 

I totally get what you're saying.  One would think that I shouldn't have to explain my Redskins fandom that much given that I live in the area.  Folks with no horse in the race look at you like "huh?" upon finding out your rooting interests.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Just to set the context, I think "legit dumb" is extremely relative here. It wouldn't surprise me if Allen isn't considered nearly intelligent enough to run one of 32 NFL organizations. But, in the population of the country, he's still probably in the top 1-2% if that makes sense. The people who run the successful sports organizations are legitimately brilliant. I would not be shocked at all to find out that Allen is not. 

 

Personally, I think at worst he's egotistical, political and incompetent.  But I agree with you I don't think he's dumb.  Just saying the type of things being said nationally about Bruce is getting really eerily close to Cerrato.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Personally, I think at worst he's egotistical, political and incompetent.  But I agree with you I don't think he's dumb.  Just saying the type of things being said nationally about Bruce is getting really eerily close to Cerrato.

Agreed. 

 

Again, the point probably wasn't that he's actually dumb, rather he's not nearly qualified or intelligent enough to successfully run a $3B NFL franchise. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But bro, he values the draft. :rofl89:

 

I totally get what you're saying.  One would think that I shouldn't have to explain my Redskins fandom that much given that I live in the area.  Folks with no horse in the race look at you like "huh?" upon finding out your rooting interests.

 

South Florida is one big mix of fans from around the country because of all the transplants.  When I wear a Redskins shirt as I often do on the weekends I almost always get stopped by someone and get to talking.

 

During the later Vinny years, I really was goofed on and had to play it down and explain.   Then when Shanny was hired it went away.  Like or not like Shanny, he's a professional.  I liked Shanny at first but not at the end.  But I admit the team wasn't a punch line when he was here.   

 

I think Bruce has been building a slow burn on the dysfunction (kind of like Vinny did until it really got out of hand at the end).  The McNabb trade stories -- contract before MNF.  The salary cap fiasco.  The winning off the field press conference fiasco.  The Scot stuff.  The Kirk stuff including the press release.

 

People are waiting now to see if Bruce has a stand off with Kirk and tags him.  Like I said previously, I hope Bruce goes full bat crazy on it.   The whole narrative seems to be begging for a Shakespearian style conclusion.  I think for Vinny it was the Bingo caller and Zorn being demoted as a play caller.

 

Maybe its the optimist in me but I have the vibe that something like that will be the end of Bruce here, too.  Too bad the stadium deal is still looming because I think that provides him with some protection for the moment. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now