The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

...Mike Jones is a columnist covering the NFL for USA TODAY and grew up a Redskins fan as a youngster in Virginia. He spent eight seasons covering the team as a beat reporter for The Washington Post. 

 

“When they hired Jay Gruden I had a source tell me he told Jay: ‘That organization is like a reverse car wash. People go in clean and come out dirty,’” Jones said. “And that is pretty much how it has been for everyone that goes there. It has just been an incredibly toxic environment and I can’t see how that can be conducive to winning.”

 

...If Snyder and Dolan did anything as badly as guiding a professional sports franchise, they would have been fired years ago. They are the captain of the Titanic wandering aimlessly into yet another iceberg. 

Over and over again. 

 

It is possible to imagine a conversation between a Redskins fan and a Knicks fan going down like this:

Skins fan: “Well, at least your owner never sued a 72-year-old grandmother over season tickets during a recession.”

Knicks fan: “Yeah, well Dolan had one of the most beloved players in franchise history booted out of Madison Square Garden.” 

Skins fan: “OK, well, Dolan doesn’t demand that people who work for him not make eye contact and call him ‘Mr. Snyder.’” 

Knicks fan: “Wow, um, ya got me there, but how about my guy barring the New York Daily News from sending the Knicks beat reporter to a press conference because Dolan was upset about coverage?” 

Skins fan: “How about the team president saying: ‘We’re winning off the field’ after a 4-12 season?” 

Knicks fan: “Dolan recently said he’s never going to sell and hung the current coach out to dry with a bizarre press conference featuring his front office people.” 

The two fans shake their heads, quietly sip their drinks, and stare off into space …

 

 

...But at least Dolan has Madison Square Garden, which remains its own draw, and fans can always justify buying tickets because they get to see star players perform for other teams.

Things are worse for the Redskins, who once bragged about a waiting list for season tickets. Recently they had tickets going for $4 on the secondary market for a game against the Detroit Lions.

The team ranked 27th in attendance last season. 

 

...Dolan and Snyder have been able to do the one thing that keeps them in place: their teams make money.

Snyder purchased the Redskins for $800 million in 1999. According to Forbes, the franchise is valued at $3.4 billion now, making it the NFL’s fourth most valuable. 

 

Dolan owns the Knicks and Rangers, along with other Madison Square Garden holdings, are worth around $7.2 billion.

Lucrative television contracts and national sponsorships make it impossible for owners to lose money, even if they are inept.

 

“The way these leagues are set up, they rake in money before the lights are even turned on,” said John Ourand, a Washington, D.C.-based reporter for the Sports Business Journal. “So you can mismanage, run your team in a poor way, have losing season after losing season and still make a ton of money. And forget about making money year to year, they are sitting on an incredible asset they can sell at any time for an incredible profit. Being a pro sports owner is exclusive company.” 

 

What can a fan do? 

Donald Sterling was an embarrassment to the NBA for decades. The league finally got rid of him in April 2014 after he was taped saying racist things.

 

Both leagues have bylaws that would allow an owner to be banned should they cross legal, moral, and ethical lines. Short of Snyder or Dolan doing something like Sterling, it is unlikely either league tries to remove them.

“You have to remember, the commissioner works for the owners, not the other way around,” Ourand said. “And the business of the NFL and NBA is very good.” 

 

The only possible option: SERIOUS fan pressure. 

 

Stop buying tickets and merchandise. Stop watching on television and stop caring. Enough empty seats and suites and poor TV ratings is the ONLY way to force fellow owners to step in.

 

“I don’t know what it would take (for the NFL) to step in but I can tell you that owners are not happy to see all of those empty seats,” Jones said of the Redskins. “It is a bad look for the league. And Snyder is not having an easy time getting a new stadium project off the ground. I could see that being an issue with fellow owners.” 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Russell

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/redskins/gm-report/breer-the-redskins-have-gotten-some-push-back

 

The Redskins need a head coach moving forward, right? Actually, they need a lot of things but that's one item on Santa's list. 

It could be Bill Callahan if the Redskins finish strong. They currently hold a two-game winning streak, with their slim to none playoff hopes still alive. 

It could also be Callahan because he's aligned with Bruce Allen. 

However, if Allen truly is in trouble, and in talking to multiple sources, the feeling is still less than clear on that issue, Callahan will likely not have much of a chance. 

One of the advantages to being awful and starting your head coach search early is that you can do exactly the opposite of what the Cowboys are reportedly orchestrating. You can talk to candidates on your list that are either not under contract with someone else and not worry about looking bad. You already are. 

 

There's nobody and I mean nobody that wants to work  for Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder, if they have any power, control and/or common sense. 

You might be saying to yourself; "they'll find somebody" and you're right - they will. At some point. They might find a special teams coordinator who will likely never become a head coach in the NFL, like Dave Toub (Kansas City) or Rich Bisaccia from the Oakland Raiders. 

They actually interviewed Bisaccia in 2014 before hiring Jay Gruden. Why? Because Bruce Allen knew him from Tampa. 

They might find some obscure position coach that can't believe his good fortune: You know like Jim Zorn did! 

They aren't going to find a Mike Tomlin or probably even a Ron Rivera type. I have to believe those two gentlemen are smart enough to understand how unlikely the chances of being truly successful here are. 

 

The NFL is a huge league but many people know how dysfunctional the Redskins are and have been. If you don't think well respected, influential people around the NFL haven't shared their experiences and advice with many others, you're missing the boat. 

Would divorcing Allen help? Of course. Many would still have reservations, but they might just think that they can win enough to keep the owner off their back. 

When you have the dynamic duo breathing down your neck and making bad decisions that affect your football team  and future, you virtually have no shot. 

At this point, the Redskins have to rid themselves of Allen, give complete power to smart and decent people like Eric Schaffer and Kyle Smith,  then get lucky with the right coach. 

That's their only shot. 

[Theismann07]

Getting rid of Allen is a must. It’s beyond comprehension how this man has kept his job, but in how this organization has functioned for so long, it only makes sense. 
 

Just getting rid of him though won’t solve the issue. The main problem is that Snyder still owns the team and he has shown for 20+ years that he has no comprehension or understanding of how to set up a functionable and successful organization. I’m probably pessimistic due to the never ending ineptness, but I just see more of the same even if Brucie is gone. It will be more of the same old “damn good culture” .

[Skinsinparadise]

The way I see it is you get the Emperor and Vadar. They are both terrible at their jobs but I am betting that even Dan will have a hard time finding someone that replicates what Bruce has done to the organization. 

 

Dan is and would remain the biggest problem by a mile but getting rid of Bruce hopefully for Kyle Smith might make a bad situation less bad. 

[megared]

Don't worry guys.  Order will be restored soon.   

 

The defense's strategy for stopping the Packers is to make Aaron Rodgers beat them.  

 

 

 

[JoggingGod]

Kyle Smith and Eric Schaeffer are Bruce guys and need to be fired too (along with Doug Williams and Santos). Complete overhaul of the FO is required, starting with an outside GM hire.

[bakedtater1]

If Danny boy still plays the dont make eye contact address me by mr asshole card..than we're all ****ed till hes out of the picture completely.

[redskinss]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

“When they hired Jay Gruden I had a source tell me he told Jay: ‘That organization is like a reverse car wash. People go in clean and come out dirty

Nonsense!

This organization is a complete dumpster fire no doubt, but this statement ignores the fact that 3 of the hottest young coaches in the nfl right now all came through our organization. 

 

[RabidFan]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

Kyle Smith and Eric Schaeffer are Bruce guys and need to be fired too (along with Doug Williams and Santos). Complete overhaul of the FO is required, starting with an outside GM hire.

 

How is Schaeffer a Bruce guy if he's been with the Skins for 17yrs?

 

Kyle was hired as an Area Scout due to his father being a consultant for us and a former GM.  Kyle has worked his way up to where he is now and seemingly the more involved he got, the better we've drafted.

 

I'll take the Tandem to run the show over Bruce.  All we need Bruce gone, give them the reigns, and a hit on a new coach and I'd have hope.

[JoggingGod]

19 minutes ago, RabidFan said:

 

How is Schaeffer a Bruce guy if he's been with the Skins for 17yrs?

 

Kyle was hired as an Area Scout due to his father being a consultant for us and a former GM.  Kyle has worked his way up to where he is now and seemingly the more involved he got, the better we've drafted.

 

I'll take the Tandem to run the show over Bruce.  All we need Bruce gone, give them the reigns, and a hit on a new coach and I'd have hope.

Did you not hear the reports about the coaches not liking the “front office structure”? That means that there are more cronies.

[celticsalmon]

Snyder pobably finds justification for his own ineptitude by comparing himself to his idol Jerry Jones.  Both of them and their teams suck! But the  big difference is JerryWorld versus FedUp field!

[Skinsinparadise]

Craig Hoffman on air today he knows for a fact asking around with people that there are coaches and for that matter FA type players who wouldn't come here because of Bruce Allen.

 

I thought things were wild when Vinny was here.  But I think Bruce has surpassed Vinny as to being toxic and its not even close.  

[dyst]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Craig Hoffman on air today he knows for a fact asking around with people that there are coaches and for that matter FA type players who wouldn't come here because of Bruce Allen.

 

I thought things were wild when Vinny was here.  But I think Bruce has surpassed Vinny as to being toxic and its not even close.  

I feel like Allen is the scapegoat in all this. He is awful and bad at his job for sure, but Snyder is the real issue.
 

Firing Allen is a start but this rotten culture will just continue and manifest into something different in a few years simply because Snyder is the cancer.

[mike42]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Video

 

 

I'm unimpressed. Tepper sounded dishonest over the Ron Rivera firing. He said Ron Rivera is a good coach....but he fires him.... during mid season based on performance. Sounds like politician running for congress being interviewed by his own secretary.

 

His "processes" talk didn't really explain how/why this would make a difference than the current structure. Not saying that was a bad segment of the interview, but it's hardly anything for us to be jealous of or not. He doesn't really tell us anything.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, dyst said:

I feel like Allen is the scapegoat in all this. He is awful and bad at his job for sure, but Snyder is the real issue.
 

Firing Allen is a start but this rotten culture will just continue and manifest into something different in a few years simply because Snyder is the cancer.

 

Dan should fire Dan, too?  I'd love it.  But right now getting rid of Vadar is all we got.   Maybe there is a way to get rid of the Emperor too.  But for now Vadar is the only guy we can dump right now.   I haven't seen one post here or on twitter that says Dan isn't the problem its Bruce.  I don't think Dan is coming off unscathed by a long shot. 

 

I don't think the dude who was called the Prince of Darkness in Tampa is just a victim of Dan.  I am not saying you are saying otherwise.  But I am saying getting rid of Bruce I think will be a good thing.  

18 minutes ago, mike42 said:

 

I'm unimpressed. Tepper sounded dishonest over the Ron Rivera firing. He said Ron Rivera is a good coach....but he fires him.... during mid season based on performance. Sounds like politician running for congress being interviewed by his own secretary.

 

His "processes" talk didn't really explain how/why this would make a difference than the current structure. Not saying that was a bad segment of the interview, but it's hardly anything for us to be jealous of or not. He doesn't really tell us anything.

 

 

 

For starters, we got an owner who doesn't talk at all.   So I am jealous that they have an owner who is willing to explain what he's thinking to the fans versus an owner who hides in the shadows and is too scared to face the media-fans. 

 

He got into some detail about adding an analytics guy to assistant the GM and that's what he likes to do in his own business too -- have complementary pieces to provide symphony at the top.  He talked about wanting an old school discipline type along with having a modern approach to today's NFL, etc.  

 

When has Dan explained to fans how he sees a well run FO work and what are the key qualities he looks for a coach? 

 

 

 

 

[dyst]

@Skinsinparadise for sure. Just a helpless feeling thinking Allen may be gone but Snyder remains and round and round we go. Beggars can’t be picky I suppose.

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, dyst said:

@Skinsinparadise for sure. Just a helpless feeling thinking Allen may be gone but Snyder remains and round and round we go. Beggars can’t be picky I suppose.

 

Trust me I know the feeling, feel the same way.    You never know if the stadium thing goes south as some suspect maybe we get lucky and Dan sells.  But if not all I can hope for is that maybe there is some level of humiliation that finally gets him to change or he finds a more competent and classy BFF for the front office that rubs off a little. 

[Itoolu]

4 hours ago, redskinss said:

Nonsense!

This organization is a complete dumpster fire no doubt, but this statement ignores the fact that 3 of the hottest young coaches in the nfl right now all came through our organization. 

 

They got out before they were in position to challege Brucie for any power or needed to be run through the mud to divert blame from Brucie. 

[Wildbunny]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The way I see it is you get the Emperor and Vadar. They are both terrible at their jobs but I am betting that even Dan will have a hard time finding someone that replicates what Bruce has done to the organization. 

 

Dan is and would remain the biggest problem by a mile but getting rid of Bruce hopefully for Kyle Smith might make a bad situation less bad. 

If Dan/Bruce are like Emperor/Vader, then I really hope:

 

 

I'm pretty sure Bruce can do it for revenge just so he doesn't look like he lost here. He would be able to blame Danny on this one.

 

That being said, we're all hoping for some high profile Pro personnel GM to come and settle this mess if we get rid of Bruce.

 

But who should we fear if Dan signs the guy? Matt Millen? (just an example guy as something else on his plate I believe).

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Wildbunny said:

If Dan/Bruce are like Emperor/Vader, then I really hope:

 

 

I'm pretty sure Bruce can do it for revenge just so he doesn't look like he lost here. He would be able to blame Danny on this one.

 

That being said, we're all hoping for some high profile Pro personnel GM to come and settle this mess if we get rid of Bruce.

 

But who should we fear if Dan signs the guy? Matt Millen? (just an example guy as something else on his plate I believe).

 

I am guessing its going to be one of these three:

 

A. Kyle Smith

B. Louis Reddick

C. Eric Schaffer

 

Maybe more fitting though would be

 

 

 

 

[skinsmania123]

5 hours ago, dyst said:

I feel like Allen is the scapegoat in all this. He is awful and bad at his job for sure, but Snyder is the real issue.
 

Firing Allen is a start but this rotten culture will just continue and manifest into something different in a few years simply because Snyder is the cancer.

I agree to a point.  Snyder is a narcissist. A despot.  Whatever you want to refer to him as.  The organization is sick because he is sick.  Allen is just messed up in a different way.  Maybe his daddy ignored him, I don't know...lol, but these are two very screwed up men and the combination is lethal.  They each get something out of whatever they cook up.  He does none of his little manuvers without Dan's approval. No way.   But that sense of power he derives from them is probably intoxicating to Bruce.

[nonniey]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I thought things were wild when Vinny was here.  But I think Bruce has surpassed Vinny as to being toxic and its not even close.  

Never heard an accusation that Vinnie was toxic, just that he was incompetent (enormously so).

[skins island connection]

3 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

I agree to a point.  Snyder is a narcissist. A despot.  Whatever you want to refer to him as.  The organization is sick because he is sick.  Allen is just messed up in a different way.  Maybe his daddy ignored him, I don't know...lol, but these are two very screwed up men and the combination is lethal.  They each get something out of whatever they cook up.  He does none of his little manuvers without Dan's approval. No way.   But that sense of power he derives from them is probably intoxicating to Bruce.

 

 Just as some of us 'plain ol' folk' believe we have the answers, Snyder does too. The difference is he has the power and money to act on them.

 Snyder is also a 'nostalgic fan', just as the old farts who were around for the glory years.  He likes hiring nostalgia, maybe it gives him visions of things working out like they did back then, and this is where he really screwed up by hiring Bruce Allen.

 

Allen KNOWS that Snyder is a rich fanboy owner, and plays right into the part of caring nostalgic person from the past who will do whatever it takes to get the team back to the winning ways. Where Allen has succeeded is by creeping up into Snyder's head, being that 'support rah rah ' guy who backs everything Snyder says and does. Allen is not a dumb person; he is a survivalist in ways, and he found a way to build trust with Snyder in order to protect his job. He knows good and well if he is not with the Redskins, he will retire because there isn't an NFL, XFL, CFL and most likely college organization who will be interested in him, so he has to suck up regardless of the price.

 

Personally, I honestly do believe that a GM prospect who has the hangers to tell Snyder how it is and why success has evaded this organization, and that if he is hired Snyder absolutely has to take a back seat and let him run the organization, Snyder might just bite on it. That is what it will take; a GM who tells the owner to just write the checks and stay out of FO operations. Snyder is more than likely fed up with how things are working, but he needs that push to start the process.

 

I have faith that Snyder can still own the team and not be involved, but as I said, it will take someone telling him exactly like it is. If they don't then who knows; but there has to be a breaking point; a point where he literally gives up control and gets rid of Allen from the organization. People have addictions to different things; drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc, and they come to a crossroads point at some point in their lives, where they reach out for help. Snyder cannot do this with Allen holding it...

 

[skinsmania123]

9 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 

Allen KNOWS that Snyder is a rich fanboy owner, and plays right into the part of caring nostalgic person from the past who will do whatever it takes to get the team back to the winning ways. Where Allen has succeeded is by creeping up into Snyder's head, being that 'support rah rah ' guy who backs everything Snyder says and does. Allen is not a dumb person; he is a survivalist in ways, and he found a way to build trust with Snyder in order to protect his job. He knows good and well if he is not with the Redskins, he will retire because there isn't an NFL, XFL, CFL and most likely college organization who will be interested in him, so he has to suck up regardless of the price.

I have thought many times that Allen just feeds him what he wants to hear, the "nostalgic" "rich fanboy" fantasies you mentioned.  I don't believe for one minute that Allen is a fan of the Redskins.  No, Allen is not dumb at all. I would say he is highly manipulative and gets something out of the role he plays here, so the combination of these two entities together, has been really damaging, now to the point where, after 10 years of this circus, good coaches don't want to come here.  Why the hell would they? I am not talking coordinators. I am talking about HC's.  The smart ones look at the history of an organization.  Mike Shanahan wanted to be a HC after he left here but got no offers.  I am not sure what is going to happen to Gruden, but probably a coordinators job is in his future just like Turner. 

 

And anyone suggesting that hey "money talks" so the Skins will acquire good FA's players, I say no way, unless the money divide is so great between a competing team and the Skins. And that just means the Skins may be back to overpaying in the future if they want the player.    A good player who is comparing two teams, and the money is somewhat close, is going to go to the other team.  Trent Williams interview is going to be more damaging then people think. The NFL is a fraternity. Guys read and many have stored that little nugget of info.

 

 What drives Dan and Bruce separately we will never know 100%.  But Bruce gives Dan a platform, behind the scenes to play fanboy GM. We all know that.  Dan never really stopped meddling.  That has destroyed this organization all on his own.  I mean you can see them in the Situation Room on draft day, as a "committee" with Dan having the final say.  You know his input is there. The Haskins pick is just the latest.

 

And I will tell you what I would take some nostalgic old time football fans off here and put them in the front office and let them play GM and I guarantee you they would do a better job choosing a coach and fielding a competitive team then these two ass holes.  

 

 These two together have actually made the Skin's organization even more toxic, more mistrustful in terms of public perception, to the point where it is actually being acknowledged that no one worth their credentials wants to come here.  This is rock bottom if you ask me. 

 

And he cannot buy his way out of it at this point, which is why he may have to part ways with Allen. . But it would never be based upon his abysmal record, which it should be. That is how NORMAL owners act.  Look at what the Panthers owner just did.  It is difficult for me separate Allen's failures from Snyder's failures.  They are too aligned.

 

 Would he really hire a GM who would actually tell him to get out of the way?  That is problematic because the fragility of his ego would not allow it.  This is a sick ****.  He looks for guys who will do is bidding while he appears pristine and as the "good guy."  Bruce does that IMO.  Bruce is smart, your right  a survivor.  He know how to deal with big personalities, or guys that need recognition - look at who his father was.  So Dan has become his BFF, drinking buddy and probably listens to Dan say the same **** over and over again,  as he fires him up, and props him up telling him how great he is, how misunderstood, etc.  

 

 

[Andre The Giant]