Skinsinparadise Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: I wanted to quote this because it really does highlight many of my frustrations when it comes to engaging in debates on this board. Correct me if I’m wrong @wit33 but I don’t think the overarching point is that we are as good or have been as successful as the Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants. It’s that being mediocre and stringing together 4 straight seasons of playing in December feels a hell of a lot better than being 1-8, and the tone and overall attitude toward the team from the media/fan base would normally reflect that. But for some reason SIP, you took this and ran with the comparison angle, as if that post was remotely suggesting we should all be celebrating being as good as the other teams in the division. The natural and accepted way on this board to frame anything that’s not somewhat negative toward the skins, is to portray it up as a homerific view and attack the argument as such. That runs rampant around these parts. wit33 specifically said. 8 hours ago, wit33 said: Watching Dallas and Philly battle with “mediocrity” this season challenge anyone’s thoughts on Skins being in similar position the last 4 seasons? Not attempting to be condescending. He specifically says does it challenge ANYONE'S thoughts on this. He wasn't debating his thought -- he was saying does it change our own. So I told him what runs through my mind specifically. It was a perfectly cordial exchange. I presume my thought didn't seem to offend him since he liked my post. Not everything needs to be a fight. If you want to go off on a tangent from time to time about Redskins fans disappointing you or now to quote you about not liking "the accepted way on this board to frame things" you got me why you mess with this board in the first place? Life is too short for that isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: It’s that being mediocre and stringing together 4 straight seasons of playing in December feels a hell of a lot better than being 1-8, and the tone and overall attitude toward the team from the media/fan base would normally reflect that. Gotta feel bad for the new Snyderskins fans who never saw a championship team here and the peak was 1 RG3 1/2 season until reality set in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 On 11/9/2019 at 2:21 PM, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: You did hear him talk about the lack of guaranteed money in his contract, didn't you? Or did you ignore that? You mean like you ignored the 99% of what else he talked about because it didnt fit your made up lies about it in favor of that 1%? I heard it, and I paid attention to all of the the truth, I welcome the day you decide to as well instead of drinking the kool-aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 EDIT: Whoops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: wit33 specifically said. He specifically says does it challenge ANYONE'S thoughts on this. He wasn't debating his thought -- he was saying does it change our own. So I told him what runs through my mind specifically. It was a perfectly cordial exchange. I presume my thought didn't seem to offend him since he liked my post. Not everything needs to be a fight. If you want to go off on a tangent from time to time about Redskins fans disappointing you or now to quote you about not liking "the accepted way on this board to frame things" you got me why you mess with this board in the first place? Life is too short for that isn't it? The problem is you missed the boat on “this.” And you do it quite often with me. And maybe I am wrong and he asked it how you responded and if that’s the case I’ll admit as much. But when I’ve been repeatedly mislabeled as a homer and waffling on my views, I’m going to pick out things I can directly relate to in an effort to maybe make the board a better place for those that don’t actively come to the board as a collective poop on the Redskins fest. As far as spending time on the board? You’re honestly right on that. It’s not worth my time and energy to engage in debate with the crowd on here because it’s not even that fun for me. There’s no doubt that my efforts are futile. Maybe that can serve as some advice for @SkinsFTW who spends day in day out making some dumb and dumber joke about the brass. I mean at that point, why come here? Why and how is that better content than what I provide, which I’ll admit is 90% bitterness toward what the skins have become? Oh, right. Cause that’s how you feel and there isn’t much attempt to understand opposing viewpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 13 hours ago, Fresh8686 said: In a sense, aren't you also in the "sensitive" crowd when it comes to the actual change of the name? As in your sensitive to the point where you will be upset if the name is changed and it will affect your level of support? Everybody is sensitive, we're just sensitive to different things and we endlesslessly have hypocritical, non-self-aware conversations where we berate each other for the things others are sensitive to, but we are not, and then go on the defensive to the things we are sensitive about, but others are not. There's a difference between being sensitive and being defensive. I'm defensive in protecting the name, its the sensitive crowd, mostly lawyers and non-native American people crying crocodile tears over a name, mostly for their 5 minutes of fame and their ability to stand in front of a mirror and say " yes, I made a difference". These people are easy to pick out, they're the ones demanding that countries save their forests, as they stand there protesting with wooden signs. I'd prefer to see them stay in the DC area; I could take them moving to another city, but not in a foreign country. The NFL's pipe dream of an NFL franchise being in London has so many negative implications, but they're blinded by the color of green; so ready to take a chance on turning their backs on their actual logo, which BTW is NFL, which stands for National Football League. Will they change that to the World Football League? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 16 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: I wanted to quote this because it really does highlight many of my frustrations when it comes to engaging in debates on this board. Correct me if I’m wrong @wit33 but I don’t think the overarching point is that we are as good or have been as successful as the Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants. It’s that being mediocre and stringing together 4 straight seasons of playing in December feels a hell of a lot better than being 1-8, and the tone and overall attitude toward the team from the media/fan base would normally reflect that. Yes, for me personally as a fan I value being in the playoff hunt until the end of the season. I’m also one who thinks if you make it in you have a punchers chance to advance, even if mediocre, so I want as many “at bats” as possible. And nothing warms my soul than watching bonus football. This season does not compare to the enjoyment I’ve experienced over the last 4 years of competitive/being in playoff hunt. But, also can appreciate the perspective of some one who says the team was never a contender/or disliking Allen/Snyder, so the value wasn’t as grand for that individual. To each their own, but we all are united in being extreme fans lol. Our only hope to unify, is a Super Bowl, so if it’s hating Bruce and Dan and/or being a homer/optimist that will bring it home, then root on! Was genuinely curious if going through a 1-8 start this season provided any new perspective. At least we can all come together and hope for the best with Haskins. Would be brutal if he doesn’t flash much to end the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 9 hours ago, SkinsFTW said: new Snyderskins fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 13 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: But when I’ve been repeatedly mislabeled as a homer and waffling on my views, As for whether you are a homer or not. That's up to interpretation and purely opinion. My opinion is I actually don't think you are a homer based on some of your views on things outside the FO. On some things, I think am actually more of a homer than you based on my interpretation of the word. By the way, I got no issue with anyone with a homer position -- you won't find many here who defend Larry Michael more than me. My take is you have a specific point of view about the FO. You are in the minority on that front and you are sensitive about how you get labeled on it. As for the waffling, in my view your views on the FO (not anything else) is described by you in different ways depending on what's going on but I think I can safely say at a minimum your theme is the FO isn't as bad as they are labeled on the board. You say you are out on them now but you still can't let go of that point. And you've said you are out on Bruce before and returned to defending him as soon as in your mind things picked up. I really don't care one way or another. But from time to time, you prop your position as the superior one -- implying it makes you a better fan, suggesting that you bring neutrality or whatever the heck it is at the time -- then yeah its going to make me (and I know some others) recall the shifting. 13 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: Cause that’s how you feel and there isn’t much attempt to understand opposing viewpoints. I've done this exercise with other people and it tends to go well. When I do it with you, you always say I get it wrong. It comes off like that will be your default answer to any attempt from me at it. I actually aced the reading comprehension part of my GREs. But what the heck here goes nothing. 😀 It's something like this: Dan and Vinny were the worst combination. Vinny fed into Dan's worst instincts which is to go for flashy FAs and trade away draft picks. Bruce arrived and changed that approach. He brought fiscal discipline. They stopped trading picks the same way. They started building a foundation of young players and accomplish new things such as building a young D line that potentially is exciting. People give Bruce a hard time about Kirk but most of it is undeserved. Kirk was overrated and didn't deserve what he was asking for. People are giving Bruce a hard time for being a hard negotiator but we should if anything commend him for it. He's made mistakes including not trading Kirk and going too far with Trent but you acknowledge that. But should he really be given that hard of a time since Kirk hasn't won anything, yet? We had 4 mediocre seasons in a row but heck with some good luck they could have been multiple playoff seasons. And if people want to lament on the mediocrity isn't that still an improvement on before? If Alex didn't get hurt this run would have at a minimum continued. We are all acting like the sky is falling when it was a team that at worse found a mediocre range and at best was on the verge of emerging if we were just patient enough to let it unfold. So all the hand wringing and crying is disappointing to you because the progress was palpable. 13 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: As far as spending time on the board? You’re honestly right on that. It’s not worth my time and energy to engage in debate with the crowd on here because it’s not even that fun for me. There’s no doubt that my efforts are futile. Maybe that can serve as some advice for @SkinsFTW who spends day in day out making some dumb and dumber joke about the brass. I mean at that point, why come here? Why and how is that better content than what I provide, which I’ll admit is 90% bitterness toward what the skins have become? Oh, right. Cause that’s how you feel and there isn’t much attempt to understand opposing viewpoints. Yeah but why care about what @skinsftw, me or anyone says. That's just part of the board. We all roll with our views. He doesn't agree with one of my core takes on Dan-Bruce and needles me from time to time on it. But so what? It's his take. I got mine. We poke at each others point of view and debate. It's how it rolls here typically. You often come at the critics and push for these exchanges including this one. So if they make you miserable then why start it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariusVT Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 22 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said: I ****s with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinFanInMinn Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 39 minutes ago, MariusVT said: Transformer 'Prime' picture So is that the home or road uniforms for our new "Washington Primes"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 9 hours ago, skins island connection said: There's a difference between being sensitive and being defensive. I'm defensive in protecting the name, its the sensitive crowd, mostly lawyers and non-native American people crying crocodile tears over a name, mostly for their 5 minutes of fame and their ability to stand in front of a mirror and say " yes, I made a difference". These people are easy to pick out, they're the ones demanding that countries save their forests, as they stand there protesting with wooden signs. I'd prefer to see them stay in the DC area; I could take them moving to another city, but not in a foreign country. The NFL's pipe dream of an NFL franchise being in London has so many negative implications, but they're blinded by the color of green; so ready to take a chance on turning their backs on their actual logo, which BTW is NFL, which stands for National Football League. Will they change that to the World Football League? I doubt it. Yes, there is a difference between sensitive and defensive, but despite that difference they are tethered together, especially when a challenge is made. In those cases sensitivity precedes defensiveness, but again both are present. If you're not sensitive to a thing, then someone challenging it doesn't bring about a reaction of defensiveness. It's like someone talking trash about the Washington wizards, it would mean jack **** to me because I don't watch basketball and my care feelings have a dull to null connection with it. Why are you demonizing people who have a problem with the name? It's interesting that you paint them with this extreme brush that characterizes their motivations as being anything but taking genuine issue with the name. You're basically saying that the majority of people who have an issue with the name are liars and hypocrites, seeking validation rather than trying to change what they see as a wrong. You do realize that that is a self-defense mechanism to ease cognitive dissonance right? That is not an accurate assessment of that group/movement. Personally, I've came around on the name and would rather it be changed. Partly because my wife is part native American and doesn't like it, but mostly because I ran the thought exercise of what it would look like to have other teams called the white skins, the black skins, etc. and it just sounds primitive and ****ing dumb. Straight up, redskins is a dumb ****ing name when you really think about it. It's a captain obvious ass name and we can do better. I'm cool with just being called the Washington Warriors and moving on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 John Lynch has been a first-time GM for 5 minutes and has the 49ers on the verge of being contenders despite a middle of the pack QB. The 49ers built properly and are what the Redskins want to be. Strong defense, stout running game, timely passing. The 49ers of 2011-2013ish are back just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Fresh8686 said: I ran the thought exercise of what it would look like to have other teams called the white skins, the black skins, etc. and it just sounds primitive and ****ing dumb. I'm so insulted by this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 At least the culture is damn good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: At least the culture is damn good... The angle provided here isn’t quite clear: Maybe it depends on your perspective But I disagree that the culture is damn good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, SkinsFTW said: I'm so insulted by this: I would so own this jersey!! Wear it proudly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, goskins10 said: I would so own this jersey!! Wear it proudly! Seriously, I also ran a "Thought Exercise" white people make up most mascots. I'm glad for a little diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 17 hours ago, Peregrine said: You mean like you ignored the 99% of what else he talked about because it didnt fit your made up lies about it in favor of that 1%? I heard it, and I paid attention to all of the the truth, I welcome the day you decide to as well instead of drinking the kool-aid. Made up lies and drinking kool-aid, me ? I'd say my opinions are generally fairly balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: Made up lies and drinking kool-aid, me ? I'd say my opinions are generally fairly balanced. You might be biased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 On 11/11/2019 at 10:17 AM, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Doc and Galdi discussing this right now and makes a good point... GB scores points and plays with a lead, forcing the opposing offenses hand into dropping back and becoming prey. He's also not playing for Joe Barry and Greg Manusky. I swear, if you took 2/3 of the DCs and defensive coaching staffs in the league and gave them our roster, they would be very happen and make more out of it than what our bunch of clowns have been able to do. Callahan even said that there were a BUNCH of tendencies they noticed during the "self scout." Which is great they are finally noticing them, because they literally haven't changed since ... 2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said: Seriously, I also ran a "Thought Exercise" white people make up most mascots. I'm glad for a little diversity. Of course the only reason I do not have one of those fighting whities shirts is because they ran out of my size! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: He's also not playing for Joe Barry and Greg Manusky. I swear, if you took 2/3 of the DCs and defensive coaching staffs in the league and gave them our roster, they would be very happen and make more out of it than what our bunch of clowns have been able to do. Callahan even said that there were a BUNCH of tendencies they noticed during the "self scout." Which is great they are finally noticing them, because they literally haven't changed since ... 2010? I agree re Joe Barry - but since Jay was fired here are the difference in numbers between with Jay and without (1st 5 gms vs last 4 gms): Pts/Gm - 30.2 vs 17: -13.2 Total Yds - 407.8 vs 314: -91.8 Passing - 263.8 vs 188: -75.8 Rushing - 144 vs 126: -18 We all know Callaghan is an offense guy. Been working on the rushing game (kind of forgot pts, but OK). Those are some big differences. Was Jay holding Manusky back? Was Manusky holding back and not having good game plans to sabatoge Jay? Were the players laying down as they were ready for jay to leave? I do not have the answer to any of those questions. What i do know is this Def since Jay was fired is significantly better in every category. Yea, running as much as we do now and shortening the game has some impact. But those a stark differences. I see a bit less predictable Ds. More disguised coverages. It's probably a moot point as Manusky is likely gone at the end of the season - and probably should I want them to start from scratch. But these numbers suggest Manusky is capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 9 hours ago, Fresh8686 said: Yes, there is a difference between sensitive and defensive, but despite that difference they are tethered together, especially when a challenge is made. In those cases sensitivity precedes defensiveness, but again both are present. If you're not sensitive to a thing, then someone challenging it doesn't bring about a reaction of defensiveness. It's like someone talking trash about the Washington wizards, it would mean jack **** to me because I don't watch basketball and my care feelings have a dull to null connection with it. And the vast majority of people who have an issue with the name are most likely not football fans, certainly not Redskin fans, which coincides with the statement above. Why are you demonizing people who have a problem with the name? It's interesting that you paint them with this extreme brush that characterizes their motivations as being anything but taking genuine issue with the name. You're basically saying that the majority of people who have an issue with the name are liars and hypocrites, seeking validation rather than trying to change what they see as a wrong. Demonizing? I don't think I am doing that; I'm just saying they're championing a false cause. The only ones who rightfully have an issue with the name are Native Americans, and numerous polls were taken and the vast majority had absolutely no issue with the name; in fact, many said they felt honored. The "Pocahontas" type of people who have1/1024 Native American heritage should not be anywhere near the same category. You do realize that that is a self-defense mechanism to ease cognitive dissonance right? That is not an accurate assessment of that group/movement. Personally, I've came around on the name and would rather it be changed. Partly because my wife is part native American and doesn't like it, but mostly because I ran the thought exercise of what it would look like to have other teams called the white skins, the black skins, etc. and it just sounds primitive and ****ing dumb. Straight up, redskins is a dumb ****ing name when you really think about it. It's a captain obvious ass name and we can do better. I'm cool with just being called the Washington Warriors and moving on with it. . AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE! Facts are, there will always be someone disagreeing with any person, name or item; if 1 out of 100 doesn't like something, its not logical to change whatever the topic was just to please 1 person while ticking off the other 99. May as well turn the world upside down and start shaking. This convo is over, and should be; it isn't the topic of thread discussion, and my apologies for getting off track { mods }. I'll just say that you're beating a dead horse, but if you feel the need to keep swinging, by all means. The horse will still be dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, goskins10 said: It's probably a moot point as Manusky is likely gone at the end of the season - and probably should I want them to start from scratch. But these numbers suggest Manusky is capable I dunno. I’m as big a Jay critic as there is out there and I’m all for piling on, but I’m not sure it’s really true In this case. I think the defense is still poorly coached they’re just on the field less. They still can’t get stops when it matters and the opposing teams know all they have to do is get to 17 points to win. Fitzpatrick would have killed them if he started the entire game. San Fran was played under Niagara Falls. Buffalo is challenged offensively. And Zimmer goes into a game knowing the number of points he needs and is super conservative most of the time. While I think they’re playing with a little bit more toughness, I’m not sure they’re remotely creative or maximizing their potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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