Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Just remember what the ESPN guy said a few days ago after the Prince of Darkness said we had a good culture.  "Skins management are on a treadmill to nowhere".

What a priceless statement to remember as some fans watch the game tonight.

You know what would be great - if the fans in the DC area didn't watch the game tonight with no World Series game to blame the low rating on.  

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16 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 Ref. # 4 -- Gruden probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place; there were a couple much better coaches with much better qualifications. The Gruden hire was a payback for his buddy Jon Gruden. He was a JAG in Cincy, mediocre at best and couldn't get the offense prepared when they needed it the most; just like here.

 

Well to be fair, Jay was not hired as a favor to Bruce. No one wanted the job. There names thrown out there at the time. None of them a-listers. Here's the list (according to the the Washington Post):

Darrell Bevell

Jim Caldwell

Sean McDermott

Perry Fewell

Rich Bisaccia

 

Jay was interviewed after all of them. We sought, but were declined by the organization or the person:

James Franklin

Ken Whisenhunt

Greg Roman

Mike Zimmer

Vic Fangio

 

Jay actually preferred the Titans job, but took more money to come here. 

 

Link to story here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/jay-gruden-hired-as-redskins-coach/2014/01/09/084fab48-7938-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2_story.html

 

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How do you change your sig?

 

I seriously cannot figure it out

 

Edit- I don't have a sig

Edited by Bonez3
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I was thinking...

 

Teams have won despite power struggles and unhealthy environments.

 

Has there ever been teams who lose the right way?? Can you lose doing things the right way? 

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1 hour ago, Busch1724 said:

 

 

Jay actually preferred the Titans job, but took more money to come here. 

 

Link to story here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/jay-gruden-hired-as-redskins-coach/2014/01/09/084fab48-7938-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2_story.html

 

 

good get, I didn't recall that part

 

Gruden was a candidate for the Titans, Vikings and Detroit Lions. Before his interview Wednesday, one person close to the situation said that Gruden seemed to prefer the Titans but the Redskins might make him a financial offer that would be difficult for him to refuse.

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3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I was thinking...

 

Teams have won despite power struggles and unhealthy environments.

 

Has there ever been teams who lose the right way?? Can you lose doing things the right way? 

 

By "the right way", I assume you mean the structure and process of making decisions.  Rather than every important decision they make works out.

 

I would say yes, under the idea that sometimes teams that do things right still need some luck.  

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18 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I was thinking...

 

Teams have won despite power struggles and unhealthy environments.

 

Has there ever been teams who lose the right way?? Can you lose doing things the right way? 

 

It's not as easy to win when you have a crap owner.   Power struggles-drama comes with the turf with a lot of teams.  But usually bad owners + bad GMs = failure. 

 

Different sport but Steinbrenner IMO was a bad owner but he didn't always have a bad GM in toe.  One of his GMs, Gene Michael, for example was highly regarded and some say responsible for their really good run in the 90s. 

 

Jerry Jones isn't the best owner.  but Will McClay has become the defacto GM there and he's one of the best in the business.  I think our team is unique in that we have both an owner and a GM who are considered clowns.  Am trying to think of another example of that?

 

Having said that I am one of the relative optimists among the Dan critics here in that I do think you can get lucky and emerge in spite of a dysfunctional owner.  I don't think its easy to do.  But the law of averages I figure would kick in at some point.   Being a bad to mediocre team for 20 plus years isn't that easy to do in a league that is set up for parity -- at some point you figure something has to kick in. 

 

Heck even monkeys throwing darts (literally) at the stock pages in a newspaper eventually at some point can beat a seasoned Wall Street stock picker -- just on pure luck. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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7 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I never really bought into Kirk when he was here, but I'm rooting for him today.

 

If he lights it up, no doubt we will see his 2019 edition of "you like that, you like that" :headbang:

I want Kirk to throw for 7 TDs. One for each time Bruce called him "Kurt".

 

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Dan trusts Bruce by default. Without Bruce by his side he likely has no one. What a sad state of affairs. Two guys joined at the hips by desperation.

I think you're spot on here. When he fired Vinny, that was Shanny that brought in Allen. If he fires Allen, he most likely doesn't even have a plan B...

 

4 hours ago, megared said:

I hope this can truly put to end the narrative of him being a superfan, and dedicated to winning. 

 

No, he's a fan of his bottom line.  Did it take Dan 20 years to figure out how to monetize anything (& everything) associated with the Redskins?   

 

I don't even know what the push behind the new stadium is based on.  It goes completely against his current operating model.  

I think both can be true. I still think that somehow he's a fan and wants to win.

 

Guy is just clueless and have such a crappy reputation that he cannot attract competent people that will rather go elsewhere. Hence, he's stucked with Bruce or Vinny type of guys that looks like GM, that sounds like GM, but are not GMs one way or another.

 

It would need an external help from anyone telling him to hire X or Y to turn this thing around and start being relevant.

 

But right now, see my previous answer, he just doesn't know and doesn't have any reliable relation to sort this out.

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33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Having said that I am one of the relative optimists among the Dan critics here in that I do think you can get lucky and emerge in spite of a dysfunctional owner.

 

You can get lucky, but only in short bursts. Not anything near enough to regain the fanbase. Problem is Danny doesn't think there's a problem.

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24 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Guy is just clueless

 

He's not clueless when it comes to marketing, and monetizing the fan experience. 

 

You can't continue to use the lack of football acumen as an excuse, when it's clear that he's still meddling in roster decisions and undermining operations.   

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But the law of averages I figure would kick in at some point.   Being a bad to mediocre team for 20 plus years isn't that easy to do in a league that is set up for parity -- at some point you figure something has to kick in. 

 

Heck even monkeys throwing darts (literally) at the stock pages in a newspaper eventually at some point can beat a seasoned Wall Street stock picker -- just on pure luck. 

 

Expecting Dan to somehow luck out based on averages doesn't give Dan nearly enough credit for the level of buffoonery instilled into his organization.

 

In other words, it's much less likely to happen than you'd ever imagine.

 

It's like teaching a chimpanzee how to put legos together and then expecting him to compete in jenga without knocking it over everytime he touches it.

 

Dan just can't get out of the way and he hires similar fools who proceed in legitimizing his buffoonery.

 

Over and over and over.

 

Therefore we are close! Seriously can't you see how close we have been for years now?

 

:rofl89:

 

It's actually kind of hilarious when you think about it.

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1 hour ago, megared said:

He's not clueless when it comes to marketing, and monetizing the fan experience.

You sure?

 

Stadium is emptiest as ever...

It's more due to Redskins history, and NFL than Dan's clue about it.

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1 hour ago, ntotoro said:

 

You can get lucky, but only in short bursts. Not anything near enough to regain the fanbase. Problem is Danny doesn't think there's a problem.

I might argue that his luck ‘just’ needs  to come in the form of a good GM (or Team President) - the rest could follow naturally with no input from Dan.  
 

Of course, it’s also entirely possible that Dan cannot coexist with a good GM (or Prez) because he’d have to swallow the hard truths from them.  I will say that Snyder has shown more patience (and less meddling) in recent years, so it’s at least possible he gives a new guy a long leash even in the face of personality/philosophy  clashes.  

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1 hour ago, ntotoro said:

 

You can get lucky, but only in short bursts. Not anything near enough to regain the fanbase. Problem is Danny doesn't think there's a problem.

 

My definition of lucky is hitting the lottery on a franchise QB, Aaron Rodgers type. 

 

I do think they can have sustained success with a mega talented Qb in spite of Dan.

 

I can’t see any other scenario where Dan has sustained success.  I’d add that Dan’s level of incompetence is epic at the qb position in particular so I am far from counting on it ever happening. 

 

But I don’t think it’s impossible albeit it’s unlikely,

47 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

You sure?

 

Stadium is emptiest as ever...

It's more due to Redskins history, and NFL than Dan's clue about it.

 

Yeah I used to think Dan at least knew marketing but I’ve concluded that he stinks at that, too.

 

i think anyone of us could help at least partially fix this team’s marketing problems, it doesn’t take much imagination. It starts with firing Bruce and hiring a real GM. Dan seems too stupid and stubborn to see the forrest for the trees.

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46 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

You sure?

 

Stadium is emptiest as ever...

It's more due to Redskins history, and NFL than Dan's clue about it.

 

General admission tickets are subject to revenue sharing, along with merchandise sales.  Suites, club seats, sponsorship revenue, concessions are not.  Pretty obvious to me that they (and the NFL in general) have shifted emphasis away from the average fan's experience, to catering to those relationships that solely benefit individual franchises.  

 

And the TV deals dwarf any of those numbers.   Until the NFL can prove that the Redskins are costing the other 31 owners through their practices, what's Snyder's incentive to change?  He got $274.3 M in 2018 from revenue sharing, which is more than enough to mask the consequences of the team being chronically mismanaged.  

 

He's found the perfect operating model.  He's making money hand over fist, with no performance accountability to anyone at all.  Maybe in a couple of years, he'll have to let Bruce go, to placate fans.  But rest assured, he'll find his next co-conspirator.  He always does.    

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Why worry about marketing, or winning, to increase money coming in from fans of the team when a new stadium automatically increases the team value by a couple billion.

 

It can't get any more obvious.

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10 minutes ago, benskins26 said:


What a delusional condescending prick. 

 

I hate that guy, hey "Bruce" "Kurt" just took a huge dump right in your mouth

 

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4 hours ago, megared said:

 

General admission tickets are subject to revenue sharing, along with merchandise sales.  Suites, club seats, sponsorship revenue, concessions are not.  Pretty obvious to me that they (and the NFL in general) have shifted emphasis away from the average fan's experience, to catering to those relationships that solely benefit individual franchises.  

 

And the TV deals dwarf any of those numbers.   Until the NFL can prove that the Redskins are costing the other 31 owners through their practices, what's Snyder's incentive to change?  He got $274.3 M in 2018 from revenue sharing, which is more than enough to mask the consequences of the team being chronically mismanaged.  

 

He's found the perfect operating model.  He's making money hand over fist, with no performance accountability to anyone at all.  Maybe in a couple of years, he'll have to let Bruce go, to placate fans.  But rest assured, he'll find his next co-conspirator.  He always does.    

I think you underestimate the expense of running the team.  $274 million is an awful lot of money.  The annual expenses are also an awful lot of money, $370 million dollars last year.  Lose 20k tickets a year, you lose $12 million on average in just gate receipts.  Add in drop in concessions, double that, and then throw in merchandising.  Dan Snyder will likely make $30-40 million less this year than he did 2-3 years ago.  

The greedy little SOB notices that.

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Bruce is in DC fighting for a stadium they will 50% fill, maybe.  Or he is drinking a cold Coors and snorting blow with a hooker on Dan's yacht.  I pick the latter.

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10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is hilarious and tells me they do listen to what’s said about them.  No other reason to say that.

 

Definitely, that's a jab at the media perception that no one would work here, those reports are all over. They listen and just pick and choose whatever they can twist into being a chip on their shoulders.

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