Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread


Makaveli

Recommended Posts

Snider nails it.  For me I am no longer fooled (from my point of view) by a coaching change or a FA signing --IMO the call for a change needs to be pointed squarely at the top.  100% there.  If Jay needs to go, that's fine but that should be for a competent GM to decide not the incumbent powers that be.  I am not rallying around Dan making another coaching move. 

 

I know some disagree with me and seem plenty satisfied with Jay being fired and whatever else happens or doesn't happen so be it.  For me its a change at the top and from there whatever else happens so be it.   And I know am far from alone on it.   The last time I was in the dump the coach and let Dan figure things out was with Shanny.  I am done with that now.  So Jay stays or go to me is irrelevant to the bottom line.   I'd only care about that if I was satisfied with the rest of the operation.  But I am not.  Change the GM, create a real structure and then let that person do whatever the heck they want.  Otherwise Dan still has it all backwards. 

 

 

 

Forget saving the season – the Washington Redskins need to save the franchise from perhaps its most dire situation ever.

Forget 0-4 – the Redskins have done that before all too often. It's the 0-for-fans that really matters. The support base is broken and they really mean it this time. Until president Bruce Allen is replaced, Burgundy Nation isn't coming back. That's right – it's all about firing Allen, just like it was firing predecessor Vinny Cerrato in 2009 to quiet the last major fan revolt.

 

Oh, unhappy fans swear they're never returning, but then a new season comes along with a new coach or top player and people are once more watching. And, owner Dan Snyder banks on that. But not this time.

 

The last three seasons have seen a major erosion of season-ticket holders. The team doesn't announce that figure, but it's probably no better than 20,000 anymore. Already this season, Dallas Cowboys and Chicago Bears fans have outnumbered Redskins followers at FedEx Field.

 

...The glory years of coach Joe Gibbs from 1981-92 were the zenith of the franchise when everyone in Washington talked Redskins at work and home. But that generation of fans is either gone or watching from home. The younger generation is tired of mythical tales of Riggo, and attending sports events is not the same thing to today's fans. They're not watching games, they're attending events. Indeed, 14 NFL stadiums now have 5G to enhance cell phone use by fans, including Baltimore. FedEx has 5Gs – grumpy, gotcha, gross, garish and goodbye.

 

There's only one path back to owning the market again – fire Allen, get a competent general manager who hires a new coaching staff and start winning. Not just once in a while, but a few years in a row with a serious playoff run. Then some fans will return, though never with the passion of the Gibbs era.

Without these changes, the Redskins will remain rock bottom until years from now when Snyder sells the team. We should all live so long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If Jay needs to go, that's fine but that should be for a competent GM decide not the incumbent powers that be -- am not rallying around Dan making another coaching move.   I know some disagree with me and seem plenty satisfied with Jay being fired and whatever else happens or doesn't happen so be it.  For me its a change at the top and from there whatever else happens so be it.   

 

 

 

I wonder if there is a human that wants Jay gone, but Bruce to stay. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I wonder if there is a human that wants Jay gone, but Bruce to stay. 

 

Bruce has his fans on this very thread believe it or not, they will abandon ship at times in tough weeks like these recent ones but they circle back eventually.    If you go back pages, you'd see some epic debates.  ;)  Some even entertaining.   Making my point though on a Bruce thread is clearly not me taking a stand against most of the posters on this thread.  Obviously most of the people here are ripping Bruce and Dan and are likeminded.   So I am going for a mostly sympathetic audience not one that would per se argue my point.  If I wanted a good argument on it, I'd make this post on one of the Jay threads.  😀

 

You quoted me by the way before I had a chance to edit my sloppy grammar.  😀

 

The most succinct way I can make my point is using my own example.    In 2013, I wanted Shanny gone.  Yeah I didn't care for Bruce or Dan but I left that part mostly alone.  My focus was dumping Shanny.  I genuinely thought that replacing Shanny is the key.  Yeah Dan and Bruce are no rocket scientists but a good coach can overcome that.  So I posted then with a much heavier focus on Shanny than anyone.   It was post after post about how Shanny stinks (though I respected him still as an offensive mind).  And I'd sprinkle an occasional hit on Dan.  If people cornered me on it, I'd say yeah of course I don't care for Dan.  But deep down I really thought a better coaching hire can succeed here -- and while Dan was a hinderance, we can work around that.

 

I've hit my wits end on that point now though.  I don't believe that any longer.  So genuinely even if I couldn't stand Jay, my point would still stand.  I am not saying I am right.  I am just explaining my perspective.  And if I had to do all my posting again about wanting Shanny gone -- I wouldn't pepper it with just an occasional shot at the FO structure and Dan.  I'd make the FO structure and Dan the main plot and Shanny would be a secondary part of my point.  I know am not alone on this.  I also know some disagree with me.  

 

Just explaining why I rally so hard on the point that changing the coach without changing the GM to me is likely irrelevant. At least for me.   The other part of it for me is some beat guys have suggested that Dan typically thinks he can placate the fans by firing the head coach and stop there. For me I want to break that cycle.  Granted it's likely futile but one can dream.  😀

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I wonder if there is a human that wants Jay gone, but Bruce to stay. 

 

I can only think of one or two humans that believe Bruce is doing a good job and I’m not sure they are even human.  They could be Snyderbots for all I know.

 

That said, I think many just want blood and football, and have accepted Brucifer is here to stay.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I can only think of one or two humans that believe Bruce is doing a good job and I’m not sure they are even human.  They could be Snyderbots for all I know.

 

That said, I think many just want blood and football, and have accepted Brucifer is here to stay.

 

 

 

You can probably think of at least 4 people who think he's doing a good job, they are in hibernation now, but you know they will be back eventually on this very thread. 😀

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Bruce has his fans on this very thread believe it or not, they will abandon ship at times in tough weeks like these recent ones but they circle back eventually.    If you go back pages, you'd see some epic debates.  ;)  Some even entertaining.   

 

 

If I go back & read those posts I’ll only get myself into trouble; I can’t get banned, not now, I can’t live if living is without the ES. Therapy has nothing on this place. That Giants game was brutal

 

 

EC920B78-D26B-4F71-8BAF-50CC1B628139.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Name Doug to replace Bruce, and Kyle can be named GM with full power.

 

It is just plain awkward to see Dan dance.  Much more than one would ever think is possible.

 

 

Kyle and Doug are part of the problem. They need to hire completely externally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So in my ideal world Dan takes the bull by the horns and fires Bruce, Jay and most of the coaching staff and a lot of the FO staff.  Probably after the season.  But I’d be fine with tomorrow.  He either promotes Kyle Smith or hire another executive, and you start from scratch.  

 

The damage is done with Jay.  Even if he’s the next Lombardi and Bruce has been holding him back all these years, (he’s not, but whatever) he’s had his run and if you’re going to sell hope Jay is not part of that sales pitch.  It has to be a complete reboot. Maybe he goes somewhere else and succeeds (I have a 10 year bet for a steak dinner he won’t), but his time is done here.  The vast majority of the fans have lost faith in him, and you can’t give him an extension after this debacle, and you don’t typically let coaches go into a lame duck year.  So he’s got to go.  And Dan needs to do it.  

 

Doug is a problem.  He probably needs to go, but that’s going to be tough for Dan to do. They’ve promoted him to such a high title without giving him the responsibility that title comes with.  

 

Basically everybody involved in running the team needs to go.  

 

Im not sure if it’s not time for Eric Schaffer to go as well.  

 

I’d even submit that you need new voices promoting the team.  I’d part ways with Larry Michael (Though Larry has gotten less obnoxious through the years) and get a fresh perspective.  

 

It’s time to completely clean house.  Everybody from Bruce to all the people Bruce brought in or Dan has had around for decades of losing have to go. 

 

There if you want to keep a young gun or two, Kevin O’Connell and Kyle Smith, ok. 

 

For better or worse (mostly worse) Dan owns the team.  He needs to man up and do what needs to be done.  That starts with Bruce.  But he’s got to chop off all the rot himself to give the new guy a clean slate.  It’s his responsibility.  He made the mess.  He has to clean it up. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is a revelation, as I’ve never heard anything of the sort.  The way I recall it is the top brass was out one night in Richmond and the conversation came up to extend him and boom, he’s extended.  What I wouldn’t give to be a fly in the room the night this transpired.

So........you think Jay was just a disinterested 3rd party, roped into an extension conversation, and that coming up to a contract year where Jay had yet to prove anything, the FO just unilaterally decided to extend him and guarantee him more money despite Jay not asking for any of that?

And you think its a revelation that they DIDNT just randomly go out to dinner at some place, someone laughs and mentions the word extension, and then they just write up a contract and throw 10 million at him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You can probably think of at least 4 people who think he's doing a good job, they are in hibernation now, but you know they will be back eventually on this very thread. 😀


I’m flattered I get so many passive aggressive mentions from you and @BatteredFanSyndrome. The reason I’m quiet is because I don’t disagree with much that is being said right now. No real desire to engage in a long conversation about how I agree Bruce needs to go and that things are not OK right now. I actually have said a couple of things about it. Just not in here because I vowed to never make a post in here for a very long time, long before the actual season actually started. 
 

Literally just the other day said this:

 

Quote

If this is how they had been playing for the past 4-5 years I would have understood the overall sentiment toward the team!

 

The reason I joined this board is because the overall tone was slightly less hostile than it is now, when we were coming off the most competitive and consistent 3 year stretch in Snyder’s tenure. Everything I argued was just that, why are we dedicating so much hate and time and energy that at the very least made us average again? When in the past we’d alternate playoffs with a few years of top ten draft picks and go into the off season with 4 picks with half of them being guys who are cut two years in. It felt more sustainable to me, so yeah I’d go to bat every time I’d read something about how great Kirk Cousins was in an effort to join the national punchline that the Skins let a young top 8 QB in his prime walk out the door. Cause it was laughable then, and laughable now. Didn’t mean I liked the end result of letting him go any better, but you bet your bottom dollar I’m going to say something when our own fans are spinning something so far out of proportion. In this case it was that Kirk was a can’t miss franchise QB worth the highest paid contract at his position which is what his team was demanding or he was hitting FA, but there are many other examples. I hate false narratives, pile ons, and flat out contempt toward the team, especially when the team was playing competitive football over a longer period of time than just one friggin season. Everything I have argued was just that. And what’s LOL funny to me is that at the end of the day you are the ring leader for content in a 320 page thread devoted to placing Bruce Allen’s head on a stick, and then all of one or two pages ago say something about Bruce being average, some good moves some bad moves. WHICH IS ALL I EVER ARGUED. Which is that he’s not Satan reincarnated and some of what he has brought I respect, and will continue to respect long after he’s gone. And that a lot of the visceral hate is a bit unwarranted. And saying things like “Bruce has nothing to do with the draft who cares” and in the next breath will say “Kyle Smith is nailing the draft” as if Bruce somehow shouldn’t get kudos for hiring the guy he’s now letting run successful drafts. I’m literally just arguing against pure stupidity, not whether or not I like Bruce. Even with how miserable this year is, we look to have finally found a major boom with a mid round pick in McLaurin. Vinny trades that pick for TJ Duckett. But time makes people forget, I guess. 
 

 I never thought Bruce was a top executive, and always agreed the dream was to have Dan hire a Chris Ballard esque guy at the top of the chain and to stay the heck out of his way. You called it mental gymnastics. Never understood how you and a few others got it so mentally engrained that I am Bruce’s secret lover that won’t own his position. Saying Kirk Cousins was not worth the money does not equate to Bruce Allen nailed the negotiations or the end result. Saying coaching is a lot to blame for this mess as well doesn’t absolve Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder. Saying you can see some rationale for not immediately catering to Williams’ demands doesn’t indicate I think Bruce is right for doing it. Praising the Foster signing at the time  or questioning the validity of the Scott rumors, Tomsula rumors, Haskins rumors, or whatever other false report that is thrown against the wall by the media doesn’t mean I think Bruce Allen is great and should never be disrespected. It means I don’t like fans piling on their favorite team with a bunch of click bait and fake news or gross over exaggerations to fit their personal agendas. 
 

So yeah, I’m not hiding. I said after the Bears game this thing is done and we need a reset from the top down. I’m not going to argue the GM did a stand up job for a team that is 0-4 and looks absolutely pathetic doing so. I will absolutely argue the motives behind not showing up and supporting/appreciating being 6-3 last year with a two game lead in the division as I did last year. Catching on yet? Noticing the pattern? Probably not as I’m sure I will awake to a post blabbing on and on about how much I must love Bruce. Again, I’m very flattered you spend so much of your day dedicated to taking shots at the three or four mindless idiot Bruce supporters, but all it really shows me is that your reading comprehension and ability to understand other people’s view points...is rather poor. It’s honestly kind of embarrassing. 
 


 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing about this Bruce thread is that there was a predecessor thread which feed into this one. I don't know if it's still in the archives or not. I did some of my best Bruce sleuthing there. And back then, going back two / three years now, I had started my series of addendum pieces called the "newsletters" about ole Bruce. 

 

I especially loved when I found out about ... oh I can't remember all the details now, something about Bruce having a courtesy car from the Team. It was something his Dad gave him and that which he took down to U Richmond but then it later got repossessed. But the hilarious part was that he filed damages against the Team, in Fairfax court after the repossession, claiming the team had taken his cowboy hat, sunglasses and a track suit which were apparently in the car. Haha. 

 

I loved the **** he got into. Like the time he stole Gorge Halas' golfcart and crashed it. 😂 Loved that one. 

He was such a rich, spoiled SOB that dicked around and didn't care. And he's still doing it, while getting paid bank. It's so sad it's funny. And I laugh because I'd otherwise be crying.

 

I'll miss this thread when it's/He's gone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:


I’m flattered I get so many passive aggressive mentions from you and @BatteredFanSyndrome. The reason I’m quiet is because I don’t disagree with much that is being said right now. No real desire to engage in a long conversation about how I agree Bruce needs to go and that things are not OK right now.
 

 

Nothing passive about my post. ;)    I had someone tell me isn't everyone out on Bruce?  And I told him, nope, at least not previously here.   There were certain posters who were touting Bruce plenty on this very thread.    If you want to respond in a combative post about it.  Trust me, no surprise for me.    You've written an encyclopedia worth of material here touting Bruce.   And dude its OK.  Shows the degree of your sensitivity about it.    If you read my own posts above. I was making fun of one of my own positions in the past relating to a similar subject.   I've even made fun of some of my own posts relating to Dan in the past, too,  I wouldn't fly off the handle about it.   Unless I had some serious cognitive dissonance about the subject, which I don't. 

 

 

7 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

 Again, I’m very flattered you spend so much of your day dedicated to taking shots at the three or four mindless idiot Bruce supporters, but all it really shows me is that your reading comprehension and ability to understand other people’s view points...is rather poor. It’s honestly kind of embarrassing. 

 

 

 

Dude you are talking about yourself here, not me.  You are the one obsessed.   Even in the Kirk thread I recall a mod called you out once for going on with an odd out of nowhere rant one time centering on your position on Bruce.   And "ranting" is typically what you do.  You've duked it out with multiple posters on the same subject.  The dude who kept calling you a Bruce fanboy based on your posts wasn't even me or BFS who you call out here. 

 

You've had more blows up on this subject with multiple people than anyone I can think of.   As for you ditching your position now, yeah I realize that.  It's irrelevant to the point I made.  But to play along.  You've done the same thing before multiple times and then came back to your original position when the coast was clear.  I was even specific about it on the Trent thread.  Maybe this time it will stick.  But regardless, dude, all I did was answer someone's question. 

 

As for the mindless stuff comment which I presume is to corral all the people who touted Bruce as if they are all just like you.  That would be unfair to them.  I just complemented one of the past Bruce supporters in another post.  Because the dude can debate without hostility and keep his position honest in debate.   IMO there is a reason why your debates on this topic are by a mile the wildest and hottest.   There have been some other heated exchanges from time to time.   But yours by a mile are the most combative. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...