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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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I haven't read the article yet, but that kind of surprises me that Matich took that stance because from what I've seen of him on tv, he pretty much always alludes to the fact all the problems start up top.

 

Frequently, some posters post about things not being as bad as they seem.  I mean sure, yeah - I don't think everyone is looking for the nearest bridge to jump off to and from Redskins Park everyday.  I don't think Dan is running around the building raging and flipping tables over losses.  I actually think they don't even realize why they consistently get lackluster results.  I actually think Bruce does feel he gets a bad rap, that he's just doing his job.  I actually think all those guys do want to win.  But that's what the actual problem is.

 

I'm sure they also believe they've built a culture here, given how they've went from gassing up Redskins One prior to free agency to actually coveting draft picks and keeping the jet in the hangar more often than not.  I think they believe that drafting players from Alabama is helping to instill a winning culture in the locker room.  I actually think both of those things can and do play a part in creating a culture.  But there's just more to it than that and I don't believe either Dan or Bruce recognize that or have any idea how to fix it.

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Matich is an ex O lineman so he’s been hammering on building both lines back up. He defines culture in that article as go get the big boys in the trenches. But he IMO is missing the plot. I like adding big boys, too. But the culture that Dan brings to the FO is entirely a different subject than drafting D line.  Drafting D line is a good thing but clearly it isn’t everything.

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From the Athletic: (I found it on reddit, though... but apparently its behind a paywall...)

 

Question: Is Bruce on the hotseat?

 

No, Bruce is Dan Snyder’s guy. He’s pretty insulated over there. There’s a lot of people giving heat to Jay Gruden but the Redskins have had some issues personnel-wise, and there’s always a lot of drama. There are certain teams where the drama comes with the territory, and the Redskins are one of them. I think Gruden has always been coaching with an uphill battle. That’s just the way it is over there and it has been for a long, long time.

 

That quote is from Jay Glazer.

 

Link: https://theathletic.com/1244723/2019/09/27/glazers-nfl-mailbag-on-redskins-plan-for-dwayne-haskins-and-something-has-to-give-with-jalen-ramsey-and-jaguars/

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Glazer's take aligns with my own in that nothing indicates Bruce is on the hot seat to me.  If #FireBruceAllen trending on twitter, in conjunction with empty seats, and every social media post by the Redskins being overtaken by Fire Bruce comments only leads to firing the newly acquired marketing executives and giving Bruce more power, why would I believe that Bruce's job is in jeopardy?

 

I've always felt like the only guy who is in a make or break season is Jay Gruden and that he will be the sacrificial lamb in an effort to appease the fan base.  it will work mildly in that hiring a new head coach will build some buzz among the lesser engaged portion of fans, but many of us that vividly recall how many times we've seen this movie before will remain unfazed. 

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My thought of late has been Bruce survives at least one more year because he can sell him on a new start but more importantly the stadium.  The thing the WP reporters in particular have been consistent on is Bruce is safe as long as Dan feels he's needed for the stadium.  I hope Grant and Sheehan's gut on this is correct but I too would buy into Glazer's take.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I don't see how anything can save the new stadium at this point. DC, MD and Va don't want Snyder there. McAuliffe and Hogan were probably the only allies to a new stadium deal of any substance... one is out of office and the other said "Thanks, no thanks."

 

My hope is that Danny is forced to live with that ****hole in Landover until he's dead or sells the team.

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12 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

@Voice_of_Reason Yeah, I’m going to dissect that when I have a chance. I want to really sink my teeth into it because I think you’re wrong on so many levels it hurts ( 😛 ), so it might take some time until I know I have a few hours to go through it all in detail. Though, to be honest, much of it was preemptively refuted in my first post on the topic here yesterday. 
 

Maybe on Saturday if it’s slow at work, lol. But yeah, I do feel the need to refute it. I think your ideas on this are what inflicts so many fans with the disease of the Snyder Cycletm

I honestly respect your, @Skinsinparadise and others opinions, even though I don't share all of them.  They are well thought out and not reactionary. What's interesting, though, is at the end of the day, I think we probably want the same thing: Bruce gone.  Dan gone would be nice to, but that's not going to happen.  Hire somebody who knows what they are doing, and let them run things.  

 

I look forward to the back and forth.  It helps pass the time between losses.  :) 

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My thought of late has been Bruce survives at least one more year because he can sell him on a new start but more importantly the stadium.  The thing the WP reporters in particular have been consistent on is Bruce is safe as long as Dan feels he's needed for the stadium.  I hope Grant and Sheehan's gut on this is correct but I too would buy into Glazer's take.

 

I don't know.  Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, but the whole stadium thing hasn't been going particularly well, and at some point, Dan's going to want better results on that front than he's been getting.  Now, it's possible Bruce is close to some deal and we have no idea.  But MD has backed out, and DC doesn't seem like they're going to bend over backwards, and VA, who knows.  Bruce's best political connections are within the GOP in VA, and you have a democratic governor, and a virtually split legislature at the state level, and all of the local control is Democratic.  

 

My hope is Snyder sees the failure on both the on-field stuff and the stadium stuff, and decides he just needs to try something different.  Maybe that's a pipe-dream.  But that's what I'm hoping for.  

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2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I look forward to the back and forth.  It helps pass the time between losses.  :) 

I don't know.  Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, but the whole stadium thing hasn't been going particularly well, and at some point, Dan's going to want better results on that front than he's been getting.  Now, it's possible Bruce is close to some deal and we have no idea.  But MD has backed out, and DC doesn't seem like they're going to bend over backwards, and VA, who knows.  Bruce's best political connections are within the GOP in VA, and you have a democratic governor, and a virtually split legislature at the state level, and all of the local control is Democratic.  

 

My hope is Snyder sees the failure on both the on-field stuff and the stadium stuff, and decides he just needs to try something different.  Maybe that's a pipe-dream.  But that's what I'm hoping for.  

 

I know a little bit about a stadium process and I know a lot about how a political process can play out.  The short answer to your point is it depends on how stupid, arrogant and gullible Dan is and or how good Bruce is selling what he has cooking.  That is, if they aren't making real progress as some purport.  

 

I don't ever lobby.  But I've worked in government, dealing with lobbyists.  And worked with lobbyists pushing a specific agenda where I've worked the marketing side of it for them -- including a small role in a stadium push.  I've also worked within government, too when there was a stadium push so I've seen it from both sides.

 

In short, people like Dan can get intimidated by the political process because it's really incestuous, relationship driven and there isn't really a specific straight line approach to most things.   In my sphere where I do work, I can call just about any Mayor, Congressman/woman, State Senator, etc and they'd take my call because they know me.  When I pitch new clients they seem more taken by my relationships with other big name politicians than anything else even though they shouldn't be.  

 

So take that point and move that to Bruce's bother George Allen.  I can get just about anyone to take my call, and I am just a peon who does political direct mail.   If I were a past Governor and past US Senator, I'd have a thousand times plus that type of clout.  So Allen's connections indeed would be real and impressive.   But there is a flip side to that, too.  I've worked for clients who are very reluctant to discard someone who they know to be politically connected and who already know all the skeletons including what road blocks have been in place so far in the battle  -- in other words its very easy if someone who is politically connected to exact revenge on their former employer.  And it's a dish that could easily be served cold.  I've seen it happen plenty of times.  

 

So I can totally see Bruce have Dan totally convinced only he can finish getting the train to the train station since it's his (brother) that has gotten them to where they are at.  Even though clearly they haven't received anything tangible yet but it's likely they have at least some wheels in motion.   So Dan would have to be willing to risk breaking whatever momentum Bruce has (even if lets say he has no momentum, he probably still sold something to Dan that they got something cooking)  and also potentially risk making the same people who have been the drivers of this also become adversaries of the project.  And again it's not hard to screw someone politically if you choose, too especially on a project that's dicy which a stadium typically is.  If I call a Mayor for example and say you know that favor I asked you for, this project to consider, etc -- forget it now, don't worry about it, you can't trust so and so.  

 

Now if Dan was smart.  He'd take his chances without Bruce (unless again they do have something tangible moving forward) and hire multiple lobbyists who are connected to the right people (in a legal way) to the powers that be to whatever government they are targeting.  As far as I've heard, Bruce is doing this alone right now with his brother and no lobbyist help.  The problem with doing it that way is there is so much value in just getting people to return your calls and listen.  A good lobbyist's job runs much deeper than that.  Their job is to know the political landscape of the government on the issue and know every legislator in play first hand -- and this part is the key, the lobbyist is often willing to trade favors (help said legislator on another vote, etc) to get something passed.  I don't see how Bruce or his brother have any political favors to trade.   I'd add that from what I've seen in Florida, sports owners hire multiple lobbyists and run a political grassroots effort to corral support.  It's an all hands on deck approach.    It doesn't seem like Dan-Bruce are approaching it this way.

 

But as the anonymous guy who has dealt with stadiums was quoted as saying in the WP article -- he thinks Dan-Bruce are out of their depth on this and just don't know that it's over their head.  I got no way to know one way or another.  But if I used my own experience on this and judged it based on what Snider and Liz Clark have said, I'd agree with that source. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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On 9/24/2019 at 10:55 AM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That all his anger is driven by his love for Kirk Cousins.  As if it's not clear as day that there is a lot more wrong with this organization than the handling of Kirk Cousins.

 

In 20 years of Dan Snyder, K*** is the only franchise QB we've drafted.  There have been several others that were sold to us as franchise QBs, but their play on the field showed the truth.

 

Without getting deep into the details of the K*** debate... a healthy franchise QB in his prime walking away to free agency is nearly unprecedented.  It's one of the biggest mistakes an organization can make.  Bigger than hiring Zorn or Haynesworth or whatever.

 

 

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On 9/24/2019 at 1:13 PM, slinky said:

so, about a year ago I bought firebruceallen.com, and I still have it... and due to circumstances I am not allowed to do anything with the domain... does anyone willing to do something with it want to take it off my hands? Anyone with a web design/dev background?

 

Are you allowed to set up a redirect to this thread or that change.org petition?

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1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

 

In 20 years of Dan Snyder, K*** is the only franchise QB we've drafted.  There have been several others that were sold to us as franchise QBs, but their play on the field showed the truth.

 

Without getting deep into the details of the K*** debate... a healthy franchise QB in his prime walking away to free agency is nearly unprecedented.  It's one of the biggest mistakes an organization can make.  Bigger than hiring Zorn or Haynesworth or whatever.

 

 

 

Kirk is an above average starting NFL QB, that you can probably win with long-term with the right roster.

 

Calling him a "franchise QB" is imo lowering the bar on what that title means, but that's a personal opinion. 

 

Kirk imo exists on a spectrum between Andy Dalton and Tony Romo, with people who dislike or like him placing him closer on the scale to either of those guys, but pretty much agreeing that he's no worse than Dalton and no better than Tony Romo...for me he is MUCH closer to the Dalton part of the scale, and doesn't approach peak Romo. 

 

Is Dalton or a slightly better Dalton a "franchise QB" in any way other than allocated cap space? I don't think so, personally. 

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10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Most around the team are stunned by their slow start.

Which just shows how insular and blind the culture at the top is in the organization. 

 

The fans knew this wasn't a good team.

The media knew it wasn't a good team.

Bruce and Co. thought it was a good team.

Bruce and Co. laugh off how little the media and fans must actually know.

The team turns out to not be good.

Bruce and Co. decide it must be some weird unexplainable phenomenon and there's no way they could have seen this coming.

Dan agrees,

 

If you need a better illustration of why this regime has been such a failure, I'm not sure I can help you.

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6 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Which just shows how insular and blind the culture at the top is in the organization. 

 

The fans knew this wasn't a good team.

The media knew it wasn't a good team.

Bruce and Co. thought it was a good team.

Bruce and Co. laugh off how little the media and fans must actually know.

The team turns out to not be good.

Bruce and Co. decide it must be some weird unexplainable phenomenon and there's no way they could have seen this coming.

Dan agrees,

 

If you need a better illustration of why this regime has been such a failure, I'm not sure I can help you.

 

I would hazard a guess that Dan and Bruce or Vinny when he was here ALWAYS thought they are close because that's how they always seems to roll.  I recall somehow it came out in an interview years ago about how Dan loved Vinny for him always been optimistic -- I take that as Vinny always telling Dan they are on the verge or if something goes wrong its bad luck or he found a scapegoat for it.   I'd put money that Bruce's supposed daily drinking nightcaps with Dan are brimming with conversation about how "close" they are and if things aren't going well they talk about whose to blame -- and naturally the people to blame are never them.  

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I would hazard a guess that Dan and Bruce or Vinny when he was here ALWAYS thought they are close because that's how they always seems to roll. 

 

 

Yea, its called delusional.  That's the fan's job, not ownership.

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13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I would hazard a guess that Dan and Bruce or Vinny when he was here ALWAYS thought they are close because that's how they always seems to roll.  I recall somehow it came out in an interview years ago about how Dan loved Vinny for him always been optimistic -- I take that as Vinny always telling Dan they are on the verge or if something goes wrong its bad luck or he found a scapegoat for it.   I'd put money that Bruce's supposed daily drinking nightcaps with Dan are brimming with conversation about how "close" they are and if things aren't going well they talk about whose to blame -- and naturally the people to blame are never them.  

It seems like pretty clear denialism. If you can just convince yourself that everything is going well, you don't have to make any changes or confront your own failings.

 

You could also, of course, call that a form of stupidity. I would. 

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3 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It seems like pretty clear denialism. If you can just convince yourself that everything is going well, you don't have to make any changes or confront your own failings.

 

You could also, of course, call that a form of stupidity. I would. 

 

Yep I've never had an addiction but know others who did.  And I know denial is stage one to overcome to start a recovery.  So I guess they got ways to go.  :(

 

https://www.crchealth.com/find-a-treatment-center/washington-treatment-information/5-stages-addiction-recovery/

1. Awareness and Early Acknowledgement

This first stage is marked by a growing awareness that there is a problem. In some cases, this realization results from conversations with family members, friends or co-workers; in other instances, it may only occur after the addiction has led to health, financial, work, or legal problems.

Although the addict is still engaging in addictive behaviors, and hasn’t made any measurable progress toward ending those behaviors, this first stage is critical in paving the way for the rest of the recovery process.

One of the most important parts of this phase is the transition from mere awareness of the problem to actual acknowledgement that action is needed. Few experiences are as essential to an addict as the moment when he or she shifts from denial to a willingness to make a change.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I bet they are

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/09/27/jay-gruden-redskins-are-strangely-optimistic-despite-start/

Most around the team are stunned by their slow start.

 

 

 

I have a better question for bruce. What does it mean that just about every fan is not at all stunned by the "slow" start? Maybe a little (and i mean very little) surprised, certainly disappointed. But stunned? Are you ****ing kidding me? I mean really - they are stunned? It's not rocket science. They have less talent and have been out coached and out played in virtually every facet of the game.  

 

I believe a loss to the giants gives us a very good chance of matching the lions record of futility of 0-16. 

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Hard to be surprised of the slow start when having Keenum under center in a new offense. Keenum is a below average “game manager” type QB.

 

Side note- Very underwhelmed with his ability to manipulate the pocket or use his legs for positive yardage/crucial 3rd downs. He shrinks in the pocket. I say this in context, that I thought he did this with above average ability. 

 

With that said, the schedule was unkind to start the year, so we’ll see how it goes against the Giants. 

 

Edited by wit33

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Dan: I don't understand it Bruce. We're 0-3, the stadium is full of opposing fans, and that young QB that I picked isn't even playing yet. Are you sure that we're close?

 

Bruce:

 Awesome.jpg.4adf08a75d4c57060bc7b1277573ae45.jpg

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

But as the anonymous guy who has dealt with stadiums was quoted as saying in the WP article -- he thinks Dan-Bruce are out of their depth on this and just don't know that it's over their head.  I got no way to know one way or another.  But if I used my own experience on this and judged it based on what Snider and Liz Clark have said, I'd agree with that source. 

 

Judging by everything else they've done, and how they've done it, you probably have a pretty good idea lol.

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52 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I have a better question for bruce. What does it mean that just about every fan is not at all stunned by the "slow" start? Maybe a little (and i mean very little) surprised, certainly disappointed. But stunned? Are you ****ing kidding me? I mean really - they are stunned? It's not rocket science. They have less talent and have been out coached and out played in virtually every facet of the game.  

 

I believe a loss to the giants gives us a very good chance of matching the lions record of futility of 0-16. 

 

The thing is I get how it would serve Bruce (and Vinny before him) to convince Dan they are always on the verge.  Heck you and I among others have plenty of practice dealing with a variation of that argument from the straggler FO defenders -- so I don't think its that hard to imagine how Bruce sells it. 

 

We were 6-4 with Alex.  If only for the injuries.  Look at all the people who touted our last draft.   Wait until such and such players start exploding or whatever.  I am sure Bruce could put the people we debate with to shame with all of his "logic" about how this team is on the "verge" of being kick butt.

 

Part of me wonders if Bruce really believes it considering he would be good for him to sell Dan on this narrative whether its true or not.  Or maybe he's so used to selling the argument that he's learned to believe it himself.  

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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39 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Hard to be surprised of the slow start when having Keenum under center in a new offense. Keenum is a below average “game manager” type QB.

 

Side note- Very underwhelmed with his ability to manipulate the pocket or use his legs for positive yardage/crucial 3rd downs. He shrinks in the pocket. I say this in context, that I thought he did this with above average ability. 

 

With that said, the schedule was unkind to start the year, so we’ll see how it goes against the Giants. 

 

 

I think the shocker is the defense stinking.  Like you I didn't expect much from Keenum.  But if the defense played better, I think the vibe about the team would be much better.  If anything to me the passing game has been at least a little better than I expected.  Everything else has been less.

 

This Sunday is a big game.  The Giants aren't good.  They need to beat them.  If they don't things I think are going to go wildly off the rails.

 

I predicted a fan backlash type of season this year.  But I thought it would happen in a backdrop of a 7-9, 8-8 type season.   If this goes to a 4-12 season, it will get even uglier than I thought it would.

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56 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep I've never had an addiction but know others who did.  And I know denial is stage one to overcome to start a recovery.  So I guess they got ways to go.  :(

 

 

 

 And here I was thinking step 1 is realizing you've run out of money to continue the addiction.

 

 Singular Dependency.

 This is what Snyder is suffering from.  He relies on Bruce to fix the problems, but fails to realize Bruce IS the problem.  In a way it resembles a HOA { Home Owners Association } who sets the guidelines and has been given all the power in the world, and in the end its just better to move away.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd lay money down that there will be a partial 'house cleaning', but the ones who are kept will be the ones responsible for the mess in the first place. A false sense of comfort will envelop Snyder, while Bruce hides in the shadows, and when things go south he will be there, again, deflecting.

Gibbs COULD convince Snyder that Bruce is the problem, because Gibbs is about the only other person in the world that Snyder would trust, but he will never do that, because he is too kind of a man.  

 

 

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