Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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14 hours ago, Alexa said:

Kyle Smith = overrated. 

 

He is?

 

I don't know how you could rate anyone in this organization in any way. There is no telling wtf is actually going on behind the scenes. Are the players he is drafting not good, or do the coaches not know how to develop/use them? Is he getting to go off his own big board, or is Bruce interfering.

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15 hours ago, Alexa said:

Kyle Smith = overrated. 

Exactly...in 9 years we still have a terrible slew of second round picks hardly any depth oh and the team still stinks, everyone deserves to be let go

Edited by CjSuAvE22

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25 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Exactly...in 9 years we still have a terrible slew of second round picks hardly any depth oh and the team still stinks, everyone deserves to be let go

 

He's been in charge of 2 2nd round picks.  Ryan Anderson and Derrius Guice.   He's not been running the draft for 9 years. 

 

He might be responsible for drafting the first superstar at WR for this club since Art Monk.   The rookie MLB is a starter.   They have a rookie starter at CB.  Harmon has started some.  This current draft is off to a good start.     If you get 2-3 starters out of a draft its considered a good one.

 

I actually think Kyle might be slightly overrated.  But by that I mean, they are better personnel guys in the league.  Kyle from what I've noticed isn't nationally hyped much.  Guys like Will McClay from Dallas have been killing it -- look at Dallas' roster compared to ours?  But McClay has controlled both the college and pro personnel side.  Kyle just college.

 

I think Kyle is good.  it might be premature to say he's great.  But I'd take good over what we've had over the years.  I'd take Kyle's drafts over both Scot and Scott who were doing them previously.  And i like Scot more than most.  But I'd say Kyle has been the best draft guy we've had in eons.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I think Brucie Bruce has pictures of DS with a red ball in his mouth and a dildo jammed up his ass. That's why he hasn't been fired.....

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If the plan is for Jay to be the coach all year, and Jay is never going to play Dwayne because he doesn't think he'll ever be a great QB, and we are winless approaching the trade deadline, would it be prudent to try to trade Dwayne....He should fetch a first rounder. 

 

To elab further, our inevitable new coach may not even want him. The asset(s) from a trade can be used to target Tua or the next best that our new coach actually wants. Not the kid that went to school with Dan's kid.  Why would the new coach want a QB with only 1 year of college experience, and be tethered to, and (you know it's true) be forced to play him. 

 

Its like getting a surprise pet for your birthday but don't want a pet.  Um... can we return this #awkward

Edited by RandyHolt
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21 hours ago, slinky said:

so, about a year ago I bought firebruceallen.com, and I still have it... and due to circumstances I am not allowed to do anything with the domain... does anyone willing to do something with it want to take it off my hands? Anyone with a web design/dev background?

 

And if anyone wants to know, this domain was used by Tampa fans over 15 years ago. Archive.org to the old site:
https://web.archive.org/web/20041018200348/http://www.firebruceallen.com/

I have mad web development skills (seriously, I do it for a living and sometimes in my spare time) so if anyone has an actual design or idea for the site, I'd be willing to help out as long as it's nothing too complex just due to time constraints.

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I would create a new thread and see if we can get other people on this site to step up to help you design it and get it up and running. Then a lot of us could go to the newly designed site to express our frustrations online.

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13 hours ago, dballer said:

 

He is?

 

I don't know how you could rate anyone in this organization in any way. There is no telling wtf is actually going on behind the scenes. Are the players he is drafting not good, or do the coaches not know how to develop/use them? Is he getting to go off his own big board, or is Bruce interfering.

But doesn't he set the draft board? Why does he draft these guys that are always hurt?

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On 9/24/2019 at 11:05 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

Is Dan really that dense that he doesn't get that fans would be way more revitalized from a FO change than a coaching change or both?


I don’t think he’s dense at all.

 

I think he has the perfect read on this fan base. Actually, it’s pretty much every fan base. The over-emphasizing of coaching at the pro level with the gross ignorance of what resource management, player personnel acquisition, and general organizational structuring entails is something ingrained into the minds of everyone by the media and the way ownership in the NFL is setup. They have the best professional setup in the country. They can do immense damage but retain unwavering support from their customers because of fandom and the personal history attached to it. Then they get to prance out these lower level staff members called coaches to be their frontmen. 

 

I’m sure I’m going to offend here, but the fans are filled with morons who have no idea that they simply CAN’T separate the FO from the coach’s ability to do his job no matter how brilliant they think they are (lol) in identifying play calling or schematic issues, that their argument that it isn’t mutually exclusive is an argument that logically refutes their own point (because coaches are beholden to their environment), and that the greatest coach can be hired here and would still fail under these circumstances as their strengths fail to be realized and their weaknesses highlighted (we had as great example as any when Gibbs returned). 
 

Just look at this board. Look at Twitter. Look anywhere. Who is left still obsessively posting for the most part? The fans who, whether they realize it or not, are stuck in this Snyder cycle believing that replacing coaches or this or that player will save the franchise. It is the ultimate expression of false hope. They can claim all they want that they recognize the bigger problem is Dan and/or Bruce, but every one of their hot takes belies that fact. If these coaches are the raging morons they describe, then Dan/Bruce have done a fine enough job building this roster and managing resources... just bring in someone who isn’t the raging moron they describe. Bring in someone who will “maximize this talent”. 🤣
 

So Dan gets it. He gets it perfectly. There are still plenty fans who will be absolutely pacified, excited, and anxious for the next great hire at Head Scapegoat, oops, I mean Head Coach. They’ll eat up every fluff piece during the off-season where the delusions of grandeur take place and the prior regimes “idiocy” is exposed. You see, these guys get it, they’re going to fix what those idiots did before! Yay! 
 

And then the season starts. And the new guy starts to wear down as he’s limited by a team built so poorly, with ridiculous amounts of wasted cap space used on players he can’t get anything from or are entirely too one-dimensional or are simply bad at their positions or are injury-prone or are redundant in their skill sets, etc... while these geniuses in the fan base start to identify how he can’t “adjust” or begging to question the nuance of his play calling or in game management or whatever the hell he’s struggling with while juggling a million other things because the executives on this team decided his strengths were to be exploited instead of supported and they overloaded his plate.... but hey, don’t worry everyone, this idiot’s replaceable, bring in the next guy who’ll fix it!!!!! 
 

image.gif.bf5abea50d3e8c703776782c3657d8b8.gif

 

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For those of you lacking the time to read the novel above I'll give it to you in a gif.

 

You are the duck, Dan is Elmer:

 

elmer-fudd-gif-11.gif

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On 9/25/2019 at 6:58 AM, KDawg said:

SIP,

 

What was the first tweet there referencing?

 

 

I presume Jay, these were the two prior tweets to it

 

 

 

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I get it how common, everyday, listen to some 980 on the way home from work, tune in on Sunday guys all rage out at the coaches and players regularly.  What I don't get is how folks that follow everything and have for a long time feel that way.  Most of us here invest entirely too much time on this team like a sick addiction.  We know entirely too much information about the organization because we follow along 12 months a year, every year, for decades.  So for those of us that fall into this category, it does boggle my mind how over and over and over again, the targets get set in the same places.  The only theory I have is that a lot of fans have been placed into submission by Dan and whoever his top guy is and accept the fact that they aren't going anywhere.  They just want new people to be mad at, rinse and repeat.

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5 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Just look at this board. Look at Twitter. Look anywhere. Who is left still obsessively posting for the most part? The fans who, whether they realize it or not, are stuck in this Snyder cycle believing that replacing coaches or this or that player will save the franchise. It is the ultimate expression of false hope. They can claim all they want that they recognize the bigger problem is Dan and/or Bruce, but every one of their hot takes belies that fact. If these coaches are the raging morons they describe, then Dan/Bruce have done a fine enough job building this roster and managing resources... just bring in someone who isn’t the raging moron they describe. Bring in someone who will “maximize this talent”. 🤣

 

 

 

I have to tell you... I think you're way off the mark as far as your read on a lot of the fans here. Granted, you're working in a gross generalization, so that does make some sense. The problem is Dan/Bruce. And that's why the coaches need to be replaced when Bruce gets replaced. The damage with Gruden is done. Culture change needs to occur, and to do that the slate needs to be wiped clean. If your point is more that it doesn't matter what we do until there is change at the top, I agree. The team can catch a hot streak and ride it, but it won't be consistent until there is top to bottom change. 

 

But it's entirely short sighted to believe that the coaching is good enough to win. We have players leave DC enough times and succeed elsewhere that we know that there is a festering disease in DC. It starts at the top and it spreads. Gruden is infected. Manusky is infected. Whether they are good coaches or not is largely irrelevant. 

 

The problems with this franchise are multiplicative.

 

To go back to your first paragraph, coaching from an X and O perspective in the NFL is overvalued in many ways, but undervalued in many ways as well. Your schemes/cues/ideologies/gameplans have to be sound enough for your players to buy into what you're trying to do. And that's where you get the biggest difference from one team to another. Does your team trust the coaching staff? Look around the league. The teams that have coaches that the team believes in (forget if they are good coaches or not from a schematic standpoint) have the most success. It just so happens most of those guys also know what the **** they're doing. 

 

These ideologies include roster management. Jay Gruden has shot himself in the foot so many times with non-schematic stuff that his team doesn't really appear to trust him all that much. Take making AP inactive in week one for example. Hall of fame running back that ran for over a grand a year ago is a healthy scratch week one. The players see that. And most people, if they were a player, would have been questioning that move entirely. 

 

Now the whole Haskins situation. "Our season isn't lost, not turning to Haskins" has turned directly into "his time is coming" in less than 24 hours. Just so happens that Keenum's injury seems to have sped up that situation and somehow changed Gruden's take. 

 

These are all things that create discord in a team atmosphere. And that is a recipe for disaster.

 

Now, compound that. Players, agents, other teams, etc., don't necessarily trust the Redskins front office. Trent Williams is an example. For people that think that situation isn't hanging over the team like a dark cloud, I've got news for you. Management is allowing that to fester. It needed to be resolved and moved on from, and it's just hanging over. I could name 800 examples.

 

So now, the players are looking at upper management like they don't have a clue. They're letting a franchise left tackle sit at home. Not acquiring assets, not getting him back... Nothing. And why? To prove a point. That resonates in a locker room. Then it's obvious to see a riff between the front office and the coaching staff given Gruden's obvious "go **** yourself" tendencies towards the front office. The players see that and then see their homefield filled with opposing fans every week and get on the fans. The fans see poor play, poor coaching (from an all encompassing perspective), and poor organizational structure and don't want to invest their hard earned money.

 

Now you have a front office that is completely maligned. Players who's connection to the franchise is the contract they signed and not understanding the history and why the fans are bailing, why their coaches are making such poor decisions and why the front office can't get out of its own way. Coaches who don't think they have great talent/fans who don't help and a front office that doesn't provide and fans who hate everything about the team.

 

This isn't a winning environment.

 

It's possible to separate coaching with front office in some ways. The coaching has deserved criticism. The playing has deserved criticism. The team make up deserves criticism. The fan base deserves criticism. There is nothing to do with this franchise that deserves praise.

 

Changing the coaches will not change things. The core is rotten and needs to be gutted. Perspective of what this franchise is has to be reset. Internally. Once that happens it will permeate. 

 

Quote

A

while these geniuses in the fan base start to identify how he can’t “adjust” or begging to question the nuance of his play calling or in game management or whatever the hell he’s struggling with while juggling a million other things because the executives on this team decided his strengths were to be exploited instead of supported and they overloaded his plate.... but hey, don’t worry everyone, this idiot’s replaceable, bring in the next guy who’ll fix it!!!!!

 

This seems a little overly aggressive to me. I don't care, personally, but it just seems like you've taken a beating and have no idea what to do or say anymore. So you turn to singling out the fan base for having it wrong instead of viewing this in its totality, all while seemingly ignoring (I'm open to the fact I could have read your post incorrectly) that you, too, are part of the fan base. It sucks we're going through this together. We all have our takes. And I'm glad we have this forum to share them.

 

But the reason some people get on the coaches is simply because of hope. Hope that change is a move away. Hope that a slight modification is the way things get back on track. I think simply believe the coaching is the biggest issue is incorrect, but any port in a storm... I'm not one of those people who think minor changes fix this problem. But I sure as hell can't fault anyone who is looking for any glimmer of light poking out through the abyss. They think that maybe getting rid of Manusky will allow the defense to actually play at a level that they believe its capable of. I'm with them in a way. But even if there is a slight change, the issue will never be resolved until the structure is fixed.

 

Some people look at a team as a pyramid, with the executives at the top. But in reality, that's the base. The players and coaches are the tip. A few cracks in the top and you can still move forward. Cracks in the base make the whole thing fall. 

Edited by KDawg
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5 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:


I
 

So Dan gets it. He gets it perfectly. There are still plenty fans who will be absolutely pacified, excited, and anxious for the next great hire at Head Scapegoat, oops, I mean Head Coach. They’ll eat up every fluff piece during the off-season where the delusions of grandeur take place and the prior regimes “idiocy” is exposed. You see, these guys get it, they’re going to fix what those idiots did before! Yay! 
 

And then the season starts. And the new guy starts to wear down as he’s limited by a team built so poorly, with ridiculous amounts of wasted cap space used on players he can’t get anything from or are entirely too one-dimensional or are simply bad at their positions or are injury-prone or are redundant in their skill sets, etc... while these geniuses in the fan base start to identify how he can’t “adjust” or begging to question the nuance of his play calling or in game management or whatever the hell he’s struggling with while juggling a million other things because the executives on this team decided his strengths were to be exploited instead of supported and they overloaded his plate.... but hey, don’t worry everyone, this idiot’s replaceable, bring in the next guy who’ll fix it!!!!! 

 

 

Agree.  I'd add that Lombardi on the radio yesterday echoed some points we've made here for years.  No culture.  Too many chefs in the kitchen.  He's said in a previous segment name any football organization that thrives on "committee" decisions.  You need to have one overarching voice.  One vision.

 

To me "committee" is euphemism for nonfootball guys like Dan and Bruce have their say and make their calls too and have some of their own fun.  Count me among the people that genuinely do believe that Dan or Bruce aren't infusing themselves in all or even most decisions.  But so what?  All that has to happen is for there to be some decisions to spoil the soup.  An occasional McNabb trade is enough to set the organization back and break chemistry.   All that has to happen is Kyle or Santos or whomever to hear Dan or Bruce really really likes this or really sees it this way.  Dan doesn't interfere much but he's really just likes this guy or whatever the heck happens behind the scenes. 

 

I've worked in situations where its a decision by committee process and ditto with an impatient and emotional boss -- and it makes me work differently.  I don't work the same way in that environment.  Just same examples, if I know with a certain boss that if I stick my neck out against them and end up wrong, I'll be canned -- then I'll act more conservative and take less risks.  If I know other people in the "committee" involved wanted me to do such and such, I give them some of what they want so I am not completely fighting the tide where I can pick my battles.  On and on.

 

So bringing that point here.  You are never seeing the unadulterated version of anyone really because the culture doesn't facilitate that.   It's not that everyone under Dan doesn't make mistakes or deserve scrutiny.  But if we are going to continue to kill those people without citing the one common denominator that's not bringing out anyone's best -- then we perpetuate the same cycle.   

 

I know there are a few people here who insist that Bruce deserves the same break because he too works under Dan, too.  But the reason why I put Bruce in that pile with Dan is for starters just like Dan he's a non-personnel guy who messes in personnel.  His profile exemplifies the actual problem there.  Yuck.  The fact that he's drinking buddies with Dan and was labeled the Prince of Darkness before he even got here.  Yuck, again.  The fact that multiple people said he's ruthless behind the scenes and vindictive and we've seen surveys that agents don't trust him and he's added to the pile of the organization being unlikeable.  Yuck again.  Yet, I don't mean any of it to take the burden away from Dan.  The fact that Dan looks for and likes dudes that pile on to the bad culture versus fix it -- that to me makes Dan look even slimier and more stupid. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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@KDawg and @thesubmittedone

 

I think you guys are pretty close in your points.  As to the fans side of this, I do think over time more and more have piled this on Dan's door.   

 

But there are plenty who seem much more angry at Jay in the heat of the battle than they are at Dan. And when that's the message (even if all or most of those fans don't like Dan) it gives the vibe that the coaching changes will bring the needed change.  And I get the sentiment.  I used to post that way.  I wanted Zorn gone and then over time Shanny gone.  I didn't care for Dan at the same time but my anger was more openly heavily directed at the coaches. 

 

And I think when we do that, Dan sort of gets a little bit of a pass.  I don't think people do it intentionally to give Dan a pass but for example when 80% posts on twitter or wherever is on the coaches it gives the vibe that they are the biggest problems and not Dan.

 

Having said that I do feel the tide starting to change some.  With the previous angst from fans directed at coaches, I don't recall as much Dan in the mix of the hits as I do now.  So I think more and more are redirecting it Dan's way.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But it's entirely short sighted to believe that the coaching is good enough to win. We have players leave DC enough times and succeed elsewhere that we know that there is a festering disease in DC. It starts at the top and it spreads. Gruden is infected. Manusky is infected. Whether they are good coaches or not is largely irrelevant. 

I agree with this.  I don't think anyone here is fighting for Jay Gruden's right to continue coaching here.  It's past time to move on, but moving on has to start with Bruce and more importantly - Dan, acknowledging how bad of a job Bruce has done and that he's had to have played a part in it.  If Bruce Allen is given the authority to hire another head coach, that's beyond malpractice.

 

But TSO's primary point is that many of the folks who claim they can see it's all rotten - Dan, Bruce, Jay, everybody - will be up in here partying at Jay's firing, the hiring of a new coach, they'll be eating up the offseason fluff pieces about how things are "different", and so on.  Fast forward a year, if said coach is lucky, and they'll all be saying the new coach is a complete idiot and in way over his head, yadda yadda.

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How can it be so weird to be a diehard Redskins fan.

 

Rock bottom will likely be no one wanting free tickets. I turned down $27 club seats and a free ride.

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4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

But TSO's primary point is that many of the folks who claim they can see it's all rotten - Dan, Bruce, Jay, everybody - will be up in here partying at Jay's firing, the hiring of a new coach, they'll be eating up the offseason fluff pieces about how things are "different", and so on.  Fast forward a year, if said coach is lucky, and they'll all be saying the new coach is a complete idiot and in way over his head, yadda yadda.

 

I get his point. And I agree with it. 

 

What I was more... combating? I'm not sure that's the word here, because I understand where he's coming from... was the way he lumped the entire fanbase into it, or chastized the beaten up, battered (pun intended :ols:), down in the dumps people for trying to find some ray of sunshine in this dumpster fire. 

 

I see no rays of sunshine, so I didn't personally take offense. But I feel for those that do and want to see the team shine.

 

Though I do think a change at DC could help in the sense that the defense may accidentally look semi-competent. 

 

But his overall point is a DAMN good one. People need to realize that the change that is needed is at the base. And shouldn't celebrate coaching changes until that happens.

Edited by KDawg
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@KDawg I’m utterly confused by your response. You are essentially coming to the exact same conclusions as is the premise of my entire post when you say things like: 

 

Quote
47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If your point is more that it doesn't matter what we do until there is change at the top, I agree. The team can catch a hot streak and ride it, but it won't be consistent until there is top to bottom change. 
 


 

Quote

Itstarts at the top and it spreads. Gruden is infected. Manusky is infected. Whether they are good coaches or not is largely irrelevant


 

Quote

Changing the coaches will not change things. The core is rotten and needs to be gutted. Perspective of what this franchise is has to be reset. Internally. Once that happens it will permeate. 


 

Quote

 

Some people look at a team as a pyramid, with the executives at the top. But in reality, that's the base. The players and coaches are the tip. A few cracks in the top and you can still move forward. Cracks in the base make the whole thing fall


So you disagree with how you arrive to those conclusions as opposed to me in some instances, but it’s hard for me to even debate because you’re essentially saying the same exact thing. 
 

This is too chicken and egg for me.
 

You seem to think that it’s all part of the problem almost equally, where everyone is an equal contributor. Unless I’m reading it wrong which is entirely possible because, as I said, it’s a bit confusing to me. 
 

I think it starts at the top and filters through everything else, so no matter how good a coach is or can be, they will become the worst version of themselves here. The other stuff you’re debating is essentially something I never said and a misunderstanding of my thoughts, which is that coaching is beyond reproach or criticism. I’m not going to even address that since it’s simply not my position. 
 

Couple things I’ll address directly: 

 

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Look around the league. The teams that have coaches that the team believes in (forget if they are good coaches or not from a schematic standpoint) have the most success. It just so happens most of those guys also know what the **** they're doing. 

 

Disagree strongly here. I see teams set up properly on an organizational level that have the most success. I see their coaches get plucked away and hardly a thing happens to them while those coaches go to worse situations and fail. I see recent examples, like the Eagles, where Andy Reid is given too much power and ends up looking like an idiot, getting fired, then they hire Chip Kelly who is placed in an environment with Howie Roseman setup properly. He does well, but then ousts Howie and gains too much control. Gets rid of solid talent because “scheme” and then proceeds to fail miserably. They bring back Howie, set up Pederson for success with some of the best roster moves and resource managing ever seen, and boom, they’re Super Bowl champions. Reid goes to KC and is back to just coaching while the organizational structure is supporting him with personnel acquisition... he’s successful again. 
 

That’s one example. I can go through many. For every instance people assume it’s coaching that changed everything, I can show it’s more about resource management and organizational structure. The problem is that’s subtle and is hard to recognize. 
 

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Jay Gruden has shot himself in the foot so many times with non-schematic stuff that his team doesn't really appear to trust him all that much. 


This is way too speculative to me. Doesn’t appear to trust him? 
 

Maybe for the first time with the AP stuff, but that’s after 6 years. And I’d argue that whole episode is indicative of just how toxic this environment is for coaches. He has every right to play who he wants to play and the authority shouldn’t be questioned. Labels like HOF RB are nonsense. AP is 34 years old. He’s one dimensional, even by his own admission. If Jay felt like putting someone back there who will be just as much a threat in the passing game as running game, that is exactly what you want. You want to be as flexible as possible. This is what fans scream about when they say things like “adapt” and “adjust”. How do you do that when your personnel itself is limited and you can’t counter what the opposing team is doing? 
 

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Now the whole Haskins situation. "Our season isn't lost, not turning to Haskins" has turned directly into "his time is coming" in less than 24 hours. Just so happens that Keenum's injury seems to have sped up that situation and somehow changed Gruden's take. 


I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. I mean, of course it “somehow” changed his take. He’s literally the only healthy QB on the team right now. 
 

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This seems a little overly aggressive to me. I don't care, personally, but it just seems like you've taken a beating and have no idea what to do or say anymore. So you turn to singling out the fan base instead of viewing this in its totality. But I'm not sure how anyone can believe that their assessment in and of itself allows for them to point fingers at everyone else and not themselves, but that's what your entire post sounds like. It sucks we're going through this together. We all have our takes. And I'm glad we have this forum to share them.


I think that’s your biggest problem here. You didn’t like my tone. I knew it was going to rub many the wrong way but I just didn’t care because they have no problem spreading their toxicity around hundreds of times a day here, so whatever. This is my one post every month so I’ve earned a little display of frustration, lol. 
 

I’m not singling out the fan base as much as I am singling out Dan and his top executive while recognizing how owners like him get away with it. And heck yeah it’s frustrating. And forgive me if I can’t help but sympathize and empathize with anyone who suffers for it within the organization. And, this isn’t directed at you, but I’ll never understand the argument that we can’t sympathize with them because they’re being paid well or because they agreed to the job. That’s nuts to me and way too materialistic. I can empathize on a professional level due to recognizing their competitive spirit and that has nothing to do with how much money they make or what they can spend on personally. 
 

But, yeah. I’ve seen way too much evidence at this point to realize that coaching is over emphasized at the pro level to such a ridiculous degree it’s mind boggling. And it plays right into the hands of bad ownership. I fundamentally disagree with your take that it gets both over and under valued equally or close to equally so. It’s going to take a lot more evidence on your end to prove to me otherwise, brother. I can go all day on it, lol. 
 

I’m also glad we have this forum to share the different takes, but yeah, I definitely believe one side is grossly over represented. My lack of posting here itself is proof enough of that for me. It’s the biggest reason I don’t. 

 

Edited by thesubmittedone
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9 hours ago, Alexa said:

But doesn't he set the draft board? Why does he draft these guys that are always hurt?

 

He has only been setting the board for like 2 drafts. Of the last 20 drafts, the last 2 are probably our best back to back drafts. 

 

2018 had some busts, but it also had some nice picks, and a couple that are still to be determined. 2019 looks pretty good so far.

 

But even with those, how much authority does he have? Are they strictly going by his board? It kind of felt like 2019 talk was all about how they followed the board. As if it was abnormal. And even then, the 1st pick may not have been following the board. 

 

There is simply no telling with this organization. I don't particular listen to everything Cooley has to say, but he has been right on McVay and Kyle so far, and he talks up Kyle Smith in the same manner he did those guys. 

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19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

What I was more... combating? I'm not sure that's the word here, because I understand where he's coming from... was the way he lumped the entire fanbase into it, or chastized the beaten up, battered (pun intended :ols:), down in the dumps people for trying to find some ray of sunshine in this dumpster fire. 

I guess I just don't feel sorry for the folks that have witnessed this stuff at a granular level (ie: spend lots of time here) for so many years.  Like I said above, Johnny980 that listens to Doc a little bit and watches the game on Sunday, but doesn't digest the tremendous amounts of information like many of us do here --- I get why they feel the way they do.  I understand why they think things are more simple than they are.  I understand why they want sunshines and rainbows and believe they are capable of seeing them at some point.  But those guys don't come here and argue and debate with everyone either.  I think TSO is talking specifically to the growing demographic of the forum that should know damn good and well that no head coach is saving Dan and his crony from themselves.  That not everyone starts out a blithering idiot but coincidentally they always end up one around here.  Folks that have been around long enough and seen enough of this behavior should know better, but they are really playing right into the hands of Dan when they direct the majority of their ire at the lower hanging fruit.

 

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Though I do think a change at DC could help in the sense that the defense may accidentally look semi-competent. 

I agree 100% - there is no doubt in my mind on this.  I've said it time and time again too, that if Jay is actually responsible for Manusky being here, that he really wanted him and still wants him to be the guy to lead the defense.  If Jay was given an open checkbook to get whoever he wanted and chose Manusky, that is an impeachable offense.  I just have a hard time believing that Jay has 100% autonomy in determining his staff.  

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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5 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:


I think that’s your biggest problem here. You didn’t like my tone. I knew it was going to rub many the wrong way but I just didn’t care because they have no problem spreading their toxicity around hundreds of times a day here, so whatever. This is my one post every month so I’ve earned a little display of frustration, lol. 
 

I’m not singling out the fan base as much as I am singling out Dan and his top executive while recognizing how owners like him get away with it. And heck yeah it’s frustrating. And forgive me if I can’t help but sympathize and empathize with anyone who suffers for it within the organization. And, this isn’t directed at you, but I’ll never understand the argument that we can’t sympathize with them because they’re being paid well or because they agreed to the job. That’s nuts to me and way too materialistic. I can empathize on a professional level due to recognizing their competitive spirit and that has nothing to do with how much money they make or what they can spend on personally. 
 

But, yeah. I’ve seen way too much evidence at this point to realize that coaching is over emphasized at the pro level to such a ridiculous degree it’s mind boggling. And it plays right into the hands of bad ownership. I fundamentally disagree with your take that it gets both over and under valued equally or close to equally so. It’s going to take a lot more evidence on your end to prove to me otherwise, brother. I can go all day on it, lol. 
 

I’m also glad we have this forum to share the different takes, but yeah, I definitely believe one side is grossly over represented. My lack of posting here itself is proof enough of that for me. It’s the biggest reason I don’t. 

 

 

Thanks for sharing this. Yes. Your tone is the single largest issue I had because it seemed so... out of character for you. I don't know you as a guy who is arrogant, but rather a level headed, rational dude. And that's just not how the post read. 

 

Your take is accurate. Your frustration is understandable (we all have it, and we all make stupid posts on the daily... that includes me).

 

But I DO think more fans are on board with your point than you do. 

 

Appreciate your time and your post, man. 

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21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I get his point. And I agree with it. 

 

What I was more... combating? I'm not sure that's the word here, because I understand where he's coming from... was the way he lumped the entire fanbase into it, or chastized the beaten up, battered (pun intended :ols:), down in the dumps people for trying to find some ray of sunshine in this dumpster fire. 

 

I see no rays of sunshine, so I didn't personally take offense. But I feel for those that do and want to see the team shine.

 

Though I do think a change at DC could help in the sense that the defense may accidentally look semi-competent. 

 

But his overall point is a DAMN good one. People need to realize that the change that is needed is at the base. And shouldn't celebrate coaching changes until that happens.


Ok, that makes more sense, lol.
 

Yeah, look, I’m with ya. I feel bad too. And I don’t like being that harsh. It’s why I largely stay away. But it gets friggin annoying and I couldn’t help myself. I’ll go back to hiding.  :ols: 

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