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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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My favorite defense of Bruce Allen used by certain fans is that "he's not as bad as Vinny Cerrato".  Let's take it from ol' Bruce himself:

"Wins and losses is the most important statistic when it comes to an equipment manager, a team president, a quarterback, a running back, a guard or a coach."

Interesting...so let's compare wins and losses for both when they were executive VP's of the team:

Cerrato:
From 2002-2009: 54-74, 1-2 playoff record

 

Allen:
From 2010-present: 59-86-1, 0-2 playoff record

 

Cerrato's total winning percentage is 42%.  Allen's is 40%.  I don't ever want to hear about how "at least Allen isn't Cerrato" and how fiscally responsible he has been (Norman...Smith...hello?).  Because Allen is not Cerrato.  He's worse.  

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1 hour ago, goskins10 said:


Bruce is not only incompetent he a POS as a person. You have to think that the odds will catch up to dan and sooner or later he will get the right person - may be more luck than anything else but maybe we can at least get someone with some integrity if not someone capable. 

Yeah that’s my hope, too. Some like to say Bruce isn’t the main issue and that Dan is the problem. I actually agree with that. But alas we can’t remove Dan. The best shot we got is that Dan finds a new BFF who is classy and competent. Sure, Dan can end up with another dude like Bruce or Vinny again. But we got nothing to lose.

 

i agree that Bruce is slightly more competent than Vinny but not to the degree where he in my view is building a winner. My biggest issue with Bruce isn’t about his competence but the fact that the organization comes off every bit as sleazy as they did under Vinny.  

 

And Bruce has his own stamp on that.  If anything the organization has become even more unlikable under Bruce. The irony is Bruce’s winning off the field comment isn’t even remotely apt at least in terms of the perception of the team.  They are losing off the field.  And no that’s not because of some odd media conspiracy. The media was kinder when Gibbs was here and Scot. And call me crazy but that wasn’t a coincidence.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The best shot we got is that Dan finds a new BFF who is classy and competent.

 

I think Dan is like a magnet. He repels classy and competent and attracts the opposite!!

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17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just saw Tony Wylie is leaving for another job. Interesting.

 

Even Tony couldn't continue to spin this stuff. Fascinating.

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4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:



Interesting...so let's compare wins and losses for both when they were executive VP's of the team:

Cerrato:
From 2002-2009: 54-74, 1-2 playoff record

 

Allen:
From 2010-present: 59-86-1, 0-2 playoff record

 

Cerrato's total winning percentage is 42%.  Allen's is 40%.  I don't ever want to hear about how "at least Allen isn't Cerrato" and how fiscally responsible he has been (Norman...Smith...hello?).  Because Allen is not Cerrato.  He's worse.  

 

I like the new approach of relying on the draft. And Kyle Smith>>>>Scott Campbell.

 

So I do get the more homer take that Bruce is an improvement over Vinny. But I think they take that point at times way too far. 

 

Ive had this debate in the past with others.  Someone will argue with you that Bruce deserves a pass for the Shanny years. Ok even playing along with that Bruce IMO has been “meh” IMO.  And I can even let that go but I can’t let go of combing “meh” with doubling down on making this organization one of the least likable in sports.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ive had this debate in the past with others.  Someone will argue with you that Bruce deserves a pass for the Shanny years. Ok even playing along with that Bruce IMO has been “meh” IMO.  And I can even let that go but I can’t let go of combing “meh” with doubling down on making this organization one of the least likable in sports.

 

If you factor out the Shanahan years, Allen's winning percentage is the exact same as Cerrato's.  There's also a history of acquiring players with injury histories...who continue to get injured.  There's a litany of things that have happened under Allen that continue to get brushed aside from the Harvest Fest-ers and I'll never understand why.

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21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah that’s my hope, too. Some like to say Bruce isn’t the main issue and that Dan is the problem. I actually agree with that. But alas we can’t remove Dan. The best shot we got is that Dan finds a new BFF who is classy and competent. Sure, Dan can end up with another dude like Bruce or Vinny again. But we got nothing to lose.

 

i agree that Bruce is slightly more competent than Vinny but not to the degree where he in my view is building a winner. My biggest issue with Bruce isn’t about his competence but the fact that the organization comes off every bit as sleazy as they did under Vinny.  

 

And Bruce has his own stamp on that.  If anything the organization has become even more unlikable under Bruce. The irony is Bruce’s winning off the field comment isn’t even remotely apt at least in terms of the perception of the team.  They are losing off the field.  And no that’s not because of some odd media conspiracy. The media was kinder when Gibbs was here and Scot. And call me crazy but that wasn’t a coincidence.

 

Totally agree Dan is the main problem but as you said and we all know is not going anywhere. The next best hope is for dan to fire bruce and get lucky. 

 

i do think the local media piles on more than they should sometimes, but overall it's mostly deserved. it's not like Dan has ever done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt. 

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10 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Totally agree Dan is the main problem but as you said and we all know is not going anywhere. The next best hope is for dan to fire bruce and get lucky. 

 

i do think the local media piles on more than they should sometimes, but overall it's mostly deserved. it's not like Dan has ever done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt. 

 

The media brings hyperbole to most narratives.  they will hype up both the good and the bad. You see it especially with the NY media. The problem with Dan is he’s earned the bad narrative and with that he doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt - sometimes that’s unfair but it comes with the turf.

 

Having said that just about every beat guy has said that the drama is if anything underplayed and that they hear stories they can’t share because it would expose sources. So in this case who knows maybe they are actually catching a break.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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38 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

My favorite defense of Bruce Allen used by certain fans is that "he's not as bad as Vinny Cerrato".  Let's take it from ol' Bruce himself:

"Wins and losses is the most important statistic when it comes to an equipment manager, a team president, a quarterback, a running back, a guard or a coach."

Interesting...so let's compare wins and losses for both when they were executive VP's of the team:

Cerrato:
From 2002-2009: 54-74, 1-2 playoff record

 

Allen:
From 2010-present: 59-86-1, 0-2 playoff record

 

Cerrato's total winning percentage is 42%.  Allen's is 40%.  I don't ever want to hear about how "at least Allen isn't Cerrato" and how fiscally responsible he has been (Norman...Smith...hello?).  Because Allen is not Cerrato.  He's worse.  

Agreed.

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The media brings hyperbole to most narratives.  they will hype up both the good and the bad. You see it especially with the NY media. The problem with Dan is he’s earned the bad narrative and with that he doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt - sometimes that’s unfair but it comes with the turf.

 

Having said that just about every beat guy has said that the drama is if anything underplayed and that they hear stories they can’t share because it would expose sources. So in this case who knows maybe they are actually catching a break.

 

if true - and i have no reason to think it's not - that is really sad. 

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45 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

My favorite defense of Bruce Allen used by certain fans is that "he's not as bad as Vinny Cerrato".  Let's take it from ol' Bruce himself:

"Wins and losses is the most important statistic when it comes to an equipment manager, a team president, a quarterback, a running back, a guard or a coach."

Interesting...so let's compare wins and losses for both when they were executive VP's of the team:

Cerrato:
From 2002-2009: 54-74, 1-2 playoff record

 

Allen:
From 2010-present: 59-86-1, 0-2 playoff record

 

Cerrato's total winning percentage is 42%.  Allen's is 40%.  I don't ever want to hear about how "at least Allen isn't Cerrato" and how fiscally responsible he has been (Norman...Smith...hello?).  Because Allen is not Cerrato.  He's worse.  

 

Wanna actually compare them in terms of their control? Compare the years they were in charge--

 

Vinny: 2000, 2002-2003, 2008-2009

Allen: 2014-2018

 

That's 5 years for both. Have at it.

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2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Wanna actually compare them in terms of their control? Compare the years they were in charge--

 

Vinny: 2000, 2002-2003, 2008-2009

Allen: 2014-2018

 

That's 5 years for both. Have at it.

 

Uh, you really think that Shanny was in control at any point?  He didn't want Griffin and that was abundantly clear.   Allen and Shanny on paper split football decisions with Shanahan allegedly having final say.  As soon as Bruce was hired, Zorn went from second-string bingo caller to unemployed.  Allen held the title of at least GM since he was hired.  The idea to earn the $36 MM bull**** cap penalty was Bruce's.

Your dates are effectively inaccurate.

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Just now, NewCliche21 said:

 

Uh, you really think that Shanny was in control at any point?  He didn't want Griffin and that was abundantly clear.   Allen and Shanny on paper split football decisions with Shanahan allegedly having final say.  As soon as Bruce was hired, Zorn went from second-string bingo caller to unemployed.  Allen held the title of at least GM since he was hired.  The idea to earn the $36 MM bull**** cap penalty was Bruce's.

Your dates are effectively inaccurate.

1

 

Holy hell, you're holding onto that narrative, giving more credence to what Shanahan said after being fired than what Shanahan himself said numerous times while still with the team. I know, I know..."what else was he supposed to say", the response that tends to show when people aren't considering everything they should (and if you weren't gonna say that, my apologies...but you know someone will lol). At the VERY least, his contradictory statements should keep anyone from buying anything he says automatically and without question...which, by the way, he also said Snyder didn't dictate personnel moves, and he said this after being fired.

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28 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

if true - and i have no reason to think it's not - that is really sad. 

 

Yeah even Keim who hates throwing stuff against the wall and is very conservative about his reports has admitted he’s heard some wild stuff that hasn’t been reported.   This notion comes out from time to time in different podcasts.

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Even Tony couldn't continue to spin this stuff. Fascinating.

Update: Tony Wylie has gotten a job with the Iraqi government in their communications department.  Rumors are that he'll be taking the spot formerly held by Baghdad Bob.

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2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

And please save the "Who will be better that will come here?' question. I don't know and quite frankly I don't ****ing care! I know Bruce is not only incompetent he a POS as a person. You have to think that the odds will catch up to dan and sooner or later he will get the right person - may be more luck than anything else but maybe we can at least get someone with some integrity if not someone capable. 

 

I think you can always find a capable person.  Even with his reputation, Snyder has gotten some talented people in the building over the years.  Now, it hasnt always worked out, or he's made things difficult once they got here or let them walk, but getting people to sign on the line which is dotted hasnt been a problem really.  

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47 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Wanna actually compare them in terms of their control? Compare the years they were in charge--

 

Vinny: 2000, 2002-2003, 2008-2009

Allen: 2014-2018

 

That's 5 years for both. Have at it.

 

Sure...if you want to believe that Bruce had zero control during the Shanahan years, and if Cerrato was hands off during Gibbs 2.0.  

 

Vinny: 32-48 

Bruce: 35-44-1

 

Looks eerily similar to me.  Other than being related to Bruce Allen, why do you have this almost obsessive need to defend him and his tenure as team president?  Is it a burning hatred for Cerrato?  I get the hatred for Cerrato, but tearing down Cerrato to make Allen look good is foolish considering Bruce Allen is nothing more than a white collar Cerrato.

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Tony Wylie could go down in history as the only PR guy to oversee the destruction of an NFL franchise to the magnitude we see today.  Most notably at Fedex. What a disaster this guy was.  All one needed to see was how he handled the media circus when we claimed Rueben Foster.

 

Good riddance.

Edited by RandyHolt

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Are we doing this Cerrato vs. Bruce record debate again? Getting analytical about what record counts for who based on x, y, and z?

 

Sheesh, it must be....September.🤣

 

The fact of the matter is both are mediocre and there is not a big enough difference to split hairs.  Both suck in their own unique way.

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

Wanna actually compare them in terms of their control? Compare the years they were in charge--

 

Vinny: 2000, 2002-2003, 2008-2009

Allen: 2014-2018

 

That's 5 years for both. Have at it.

 

Uh ... you're actually giving Bozo full credit for the SM years? Those two winning seasons? At the utmost, his credit for that period demands a gigantic, Uranus-sized asterisk, an asterisk that reeks of moonshine and hookers. 

 

Not even remotely an accurate basis for comparison. 

 

His record in Tampa as GM is helpful, though. 38-42. 0-2 in the playoffs there. 

 

In the end, it's a comparison of two kinds of ****, all coming from the same Napoleonic ass. 

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23 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Tony Wylie could go down in history as the only PR guy to oversee the destruction of an NFL franchise to the magnitude we see today.  Most notably at Fedex. What a disaster this guy was.  All one needed to see was how he handled the media circus when we claimed Rueben Foster.

 

Good riddance.

I’ve always wondered what kept him employed so long.  But just imagine everything he knows.  Also possible, he was just taking direction from the bozos vs. getting to do his actual job.

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Has it been established that Bruce and company were right about Kirk the player yet? 

 

Just want to throw some positivity Bruce’s way, since it’s all negative and one sided. How boring. 

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1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’ve always wondered what kept him employed so long.  But just imagine everything he knows.  Also possible, he was just taking direction from the bozos vs. getting to do his actual job.

If it was so bad inside of the org (not of his own doing) he should have bolted long ago. 

 

He knows a lot, but they all do.  Its remarkable how quiet folks in the industry stay.  There are lots of great tell all books that could be written.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Has it been established that Bruce and company were right about Kirk the player yet? 

No.  Bruce paid him 44M for 2016-2017 for nothing.  I don’t recall any fans thinking he was actually worth the 28M he got. It would seem there were 2 teams in the entire NFL that did, one of them being the Jets.  So yeah, Kirk can be a career backup from here on out and Bruce still won’t have gotten it right.  Particularly considering the team’s performance since he left, both in the W/L column and salary cap is in no better shape.

 

 

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Has it been established that Bruce and company were right about Kirk the player yet? 

 

Just want to throw some positivity Bruce’s way, since it’s all negative and one sided. How boring. 

 

You mean right to not take first round picks from other teams for him and instead get nothing?

 

Or right to give him the franchise tag 2 years in a row and then let him go and instead pay Checkdown Alex while also losing a pick and a player for a lesser QB?

Edited by SkinsFTW
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