The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Pretty much sums it up.

 

By the way, how is the Dolphins' player revolt going?

 

"According to The Miami Herald’s Adam Beasley, Miami’s locker room could revolt if the organization moved its franchise left tackle in a trade.

 

Tunsil is under team control for the next two seasons and given the incredible value placed on left tackles in the NFL and Tunsil’s standing in the locker room, trading him could have disastrous consequences for the Dolphins. “The backlash would be amazing,” a source told Beasley, via The Miami Herald. “Guys would legit revolt.”

 

***************

I don't follow the Dolphins...anyone know if the players are fuming, or if they're taking it in stride?

 

I follow the Dolphins closely including their beat guys.  The thing is the owner has been leaking that they are adopting the Browns model.  Hire a kick butt GM  (Grier)reputation wise, load up on picks and reload.  And that he's tired of the mediocrity and understands that you can't climb out of that without a franchise QB for starters and he loves Tua.

 

The beat guys mostly endorse it but are skeptical about the Dolphins ability to execute it because they see that team similar to how some beat guys see the Redskins -- that is, too often incompetent where you'd expect something to go wrong.

 

As to the players, I'd bet they all hate the rebuild because who loves losing and why would players care about 2-3 years down the road.  Forget the losing, if you load up with high draft picks those players drafted might be gunning for the current players jobs.

 

Jay is right when he shoots down a rebuild from the context of Landon Collins didn't come here for a rebuild.  But IMO it's up to the owner to think of the long view not players-coaches who are naturally all about now.  So the Dolphins owner is going down that path for better or worse.  

 

For this team to ever follow that path, it would have to be a Dan decision.  In Jay's defense and Bruce, they would have no motivation to do it.  ditto any current players on the roster.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Could be a slew of people. But recency bias suggests Lafemina. But that's speculation. Who knows? For all we know it was a UPS driver who delivered there once.

I thought the same, but they stated they reached out to him for the article and he didn't return the call.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Jay is right when he shoots down a rebuild from the context of Landon Collins didn't come here for a rebuild. 

 

Landon Collins isn't here for a rebuild because you don't sign Landon Collins if you're rebuilding. This team is not, and never intended to rebuild. I'm not sure tanking is the best way... It alienates a lot of people. But it sure is better than signing just enough talent to finish every season in the pick 6-16 range.

[carex]

If the Dolphins love Tua then why ttade for Rosen

[KDawg]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I thought the same, but they stated they reached out to him for the article and he didn't return the call.

For what it's worth.... if I was protecting my source that I named in the article, I'd do the same.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

If the Dolphins love Tua then why ttade for Rosen

 

Let me start with am not on an island with the Dolphins love Tua.  Google it.   Maybe the Dolphin beat guys have it wrong but multiple have said the same

 

A. Just loving Tua doesn't guarantee you get Tua.  It's the draft not FA.

B.  If they hit lightening in the bottle with Rosen (and they got him cheap) then they go elsewhere in the draft. 

[Burgold]

We may not be intending to rebuild, but I'm still thinking we must endure a four win season. Six if we're lucky. It's not the players. I think we have talent. It's the coaches. I just have almost no faith in them and know that Jay is quick to throw in the towel on games and seasons.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Landon Collins isn't here for a rebuild because you don't sign Landon Collins if you're rebuilding. This team is not, and never intended to rebuild. I'm not sure tanking is the best way... It alienates a lot of people. But it sure is better than signing just enough talent to finish every season in the pick 6-16 range.

 

No doubt you don't sign Landon Collins if you are rebuilding.  My point is Dan really never does a rebuild.    I flat out said Jay is right that Collins didn't come here for a rebuild.   For my taste, I don't even think you got to go as nuts as the Dolphins are going as to a rebuild.  For me just trading Trent would be enough of a sign that Dan can be somewhat more future oriented that he is now.   

 

I think they've improved in recent years on that front but its still to me a half and half approach and it doesn't shock me that this team is hovering around 500.  I just don't care anymore if they do just enough to stay in that 7-9 -9-7 range.  I think you got to kick that up and taking a step or two back to take a few steps forward might be what the doctor ordered.   

[Peregrine]

The crazy thing about that article is I didnt even realize that we literally have 1 playoff win in 19 years.  1.  Thats amazing.  Definitely one of the 3 worst NFL teams of the past 25 years.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I follow the Dolphins closely including their beat guys.  The thing is the owner has been leaking that they are adopting the Browns model.  Hire a kick butt GM  (Grier)reputation wise, load up on picks and reload.  And that he's tired of the mediocrity and understands that you can't climb out of that without a franchise QB for starters and he loves Tua.

2

 

But no one's been quoting players anonymously or anything, or giving twitter reports from sources about how upset the locker room is?

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

The crazy thing about that article is I didnt even realize that we literally have 1 playoff win in 19 years.  1.  Thats amazing.  Definitely one of the 3 worst NFL teams of the past 25 years.

 

We've had 2 playoff wins in 20 years, if that helps lol...Dan's been owner for 20 yrs so figured that was a good time span to use.

[Riggo#44]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I'm not sure tanking is the best way... It alienates a lot of people.

 

So, I am curious. Who is there left to alienate?

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

But no one's been quoting players anonymously or anything, or giving twitter reports from sources about how upset the locker room is?

 

 

Nothing I caught. The closest is the article below.  The article after that is a good example of their sports writers sentiment -- they like the concept but are snarky about it, too.    Next to Giant fans I know the most Dolphins fans in my circle, and by and large they are liking the Dolphins approach.  As to the players whether they comment on it or not, why would they like tanking?  Tanking in concept is partly about replacing the current roster with new players. 

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-dolphins-brian-flores-20190902-wsyroltotrhqnpcpukohkyplw4-story.html

 

Jerome Baker, the second-year linebacker who will now call plays in Flores’ defense, said Flores did not give players an explanation following the significant roster moves made over the weekend.

And they were in no rush to ask, either, according to Baker.

“I’m sure everybody is tempted to ask, but you don’t want to go ask him,” Baker said with a smile. “You never know when you’re next. It’s a business. At the end of the day, it’s a business. You still have to go out there and perform on Sunday.”

Baker added that Flores told players to turn their focus to the season opener, and be weary of the media’s reaction to the team’s latest moves.

“If we keep, no offense, talking to you guys [the media], we’re going to go against the Ravens and Lamar [Jackson] is going to have a field day,” Baker added as Miami prepares for the dynamic Ravens starting quarterback and Heisman Trophy winner from Boynton Beach.

That might have been the most standoffish comment from the Dolphins locker room on Monday, where many of the players were jovial and upbeat despite the departures of close teammates and friends.

 

 

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-hyde-dolphins-tank-trade-20190902-ukrzbntcnfc7jirehsc66cxwg4-story.html

 

I expect champagne to pop about Week 13 this year when the No. 1 pick is sealed, meaning the first franchise quarterback is in hand come draft day. And another bottle should be ready for the 2020 season if the second No. 1 pick is sealed for Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence or traded for a wheelbarrow of draft picks.

Normally, you see, tanking is un-American, anti-establishment and symbolic of a swift descent into nihilism. But this Dolphins’ strategy is different. Richer. More opportunistic.

It can’t be called brilliant, because tanking always is the last refuge of dumb franchises. But maybe, just maybe, the Dolphins’ 20 years of dumb has been replaced by people smart enough to seize on a perfect storm of an unique timeline.

Look at it: A new regime with five-year contracts. A bad inherited roster. An awful inherited salary-cap situation. New England Patriot quarterback Tom Brady nearing an expiration date. And — pay attention, folks — two straight draft classes with franchise quarterbacks sitting there waiting to be plucked like clover.

If the Dolphins are bad enough to pluck them.

And, yep, they’re certainly that bad this season.

So hop aboard the tank-wagon, folks. After two decades of mostly drek, what’s 16 more games of puke, especially when it comes with an actual and understandable plan out of the wilderness?

There are a lot of comparisons to the Cleveland Browns, who sat in tank limbo for years, and the Philadelphia 76ers, the pioneers in serial tanking. But the Browns never had franchise quarterbacks sitting at the front of the draft (much less two drafts) until Baker Mayfield. The 76ers had to contend with the messy NBA draft lottery.

This is the worst-equipped Dolphins team since the expansion era. But who cares?

This is the best-equipped the Dolphins have been in two decades for moving forward. They have draft picks in place. They have a poker hand to play. And two, consecutive quarterback-rich draft classes are waiting for them.

There are 234 days until the next NFL draft, and let the countdown begin. Let’s also be clear where I stand about the Dolphins plan for that:

Tank on.

 

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

So, I am curious. Who is there left to alienate?

 

To be fair... I was talking in general.

 

There's no one left in DC to alienate. Or any other state that houses Skins fans. Or country. Or maybe even planet.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

That might have been the most standoffish comment from the Dolphins locker room on Monday, where many of the players were jovial and upbeat despite the departures of close teammates and friends. 

 

 

Whoa lol...that's quite the opposite of the locker room "revolt" story from whenever that was published.

 

Thanks, by the way...I had no desire whatsoever to go look it up lol...

[Bang]

We've BEEN rebuilding. in fact, we're almost "built' to whatever it is going to be for this iteration. Not quite, but almost.

In the last 3 or so years we've drafted well, used free agency to plug minor (and sometimes major emergency) holes.. and overall we've drastically lowered the average age of the team, which i think sits just outside the top ten. 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Bang said:

We've BEEN rebuilding. in fact, we're almost "built' to whatever it is going to be for this iteration. Not quite, but almost.

In the last 3 or so years we've drafted well, used free agency to plug minor (and sometimes major emergency) holes.. and overall we've drastically lowered the average age of the team, which i think sits just outside the top ten. 

 

I typically would agree with this.

 

But then we have this odd placed fascination with holding onto Williams. If they would just trade him I'd be more on board with this logic. The fact that they're holding on for dear life with him scares me for Allen's plans. 

 

Maybe it's because I'm gunshy... but I'm still not on board with the way this franchise is managed.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I typically would agree with this.

 

But then we have this odd placed fascination with holding onto Williams. If they would just trade him I'd be more on board with this logic. The fact that they're holding on for dear life with him scares me for Allen's plans. 

 

Maybe it's because I'm gunshy... but I'm still not on board with the way this franchise is managed.

 

I agree.  I'd also add we continue to be buyers not sellers when it comes to high draft picks for veterans.  Trading a high draft pick and a young player for a soon to be 34 year old QB isn't a rebuild move.   Neither is holding on Trent.   Or trading a 4th rounder for a safety. 

 

On the other hand they have used the draft well and added comp picks.  That's why I deem this is sort of a 50-50 rebuild.  Aspect of what they do indicates rebuild.  Aspects of what they do not indicate rebuild.    So I don't see this as a rebuild at all.  It's not a win now approach either.  but somewhere in between those two approaches.   

[Califan007 The Constipated]

It's a rebuild without being extreme about it. No selling off their top talent for future potential, no going 1-31 over two seasons...instead, they let go of a LOT of their own players who were good enough to land somewhere else but not good enough to invest more of their cap dollars in. They are preferring to replace most of them with younger talent via the draft (Quinn for Crowder, Sweat for Smith, Roullier for Long, etc.) and comp picks, taking advantage of cheaper rookie contacts while hoping to remain competitive in the process. Kerrigan, Norman, and even Alex Smith were seasoned vets meant to assist in keeping them competitive, and Williams is on that list as well. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

28 minutes ago, Bang said:

We've BEEN rebuilding. in fact, we're almost "built' to whatever it is going to be for this iteration. Not quite, but almost.

In the last 3 or so years we've drafted well, used free agency to plug minor (and sometimes major emergency) holes.. and overall we've drastically lowered the average age of the team, which i think sits just outside the top ten. 

And aside from one guard, our starting offense is a bunch of guys who should be backups.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

and Williams is on that list as well. 

 

Except he's not...

 

Because he's not there.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Except he's not...

 

Because he's not there.

 

He's not?...D'oh! lol...

 

What I meant was, Bruce and Dan see him as being on that list.

[KDawg]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

And aside from one guard, our starting offense is a bunch of guys who should be backups.

 

C'mon! Give Guice the benefit of the doubt there!

 

I think maybe a receiver blossoms into being a reliable preferred target.

 

Reed is start material... if healthy (large if). Ditto Davis.

 

Roullier is a low end starter type... Penn is the same. 

 

But other than them... yup. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

C'mon! Give Guice the benefit of the doubt there!

 

I think maybe a receiver blossoms into being a reliable preferred target.

 

Reed is start material... if healthy (large if). Ditto Davis.

 

Roullier is a low end starter type... Penn is the same. 

 

But other than them... yup. 

Moses is ok too I guess.

 

At any rate, we might not score a point this year.

[Riggo#44]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

C'mon! Give Guice the benefit of the doubt there!

 

I think maybe a receiver blossoms into being a reliable preferred target.

 

Reed is start material... if healthy (large if). Ditto Davis.

 

Roullier is a low end starter type... Penn is the same. 

 

But other than them... yup. 

 

I'm interested to see what they see in Terry McLaurin. I will give them credit for rolling with youthful potential rather than useless veteran turd retreads. Lets see what Quinn, McLaurin, Kelvin Harmon, Steven Sims, et al do. And this isn't like when Cerrato forced Zorn to keep all of our draft picks, simply to keep all of our draft picks. I think there's some real potential.

 

But I give 0 credit to Allen. I refuse to give him any credit for anything positive, until it is undeniably and factually proven he did something right. Even then I will do so rather begrudgingly.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

It's a rebuild without being extreme about it. No selling off their top talent for future potential, no going 1-31 over two seasons...instead, they let go of a LOT of their own players who were good enough to land somewhere else but not good enough to invest more of their cap dollars in. They are preferring to replace most of them with younger talent via the draft (Quinn for Crowder, Sweat for Smith, Roullier for Long, etc.) and comp picks, taking advantage of cheaper rookie contacts while hoping to remain competitive in the process. Kerrigan, Norman, and even Alex Smith were seasoned vets meant to assist in keeping them competitive, and Williams is on that list as well. 

 

I think it's the split the baby approach with a leaning towards rebuild.  If we say acquiring veterans for picks and retaining veterans is all about keeping them competitive while they rebuild -- to me that is just rationalizing win now moves.  But I can see the argument that the have an element of both.  But IMO not because a celebrated style of rebuilding while winning so we get the best of both, etc.

 

A team who loses their starting QB for a ham sandwich and then skips months later an arguably QB rich draft to acquire instead a good but not great 34 year old QB - that goes well beyond being a rebuild approach.  When the President says multiple times they "are close" in this last off season and now might not be willing to trade their 31 year old LT -- doesn't come off to me like a rebuilding team.  I recall Finlay among others saying last year after they acquired Alex that talking to people in that building -- they think this team is really good.