Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sadly it kind of fits how the team has played during Dan's reign -- the stadium sort of fits that.

 

Nail on the head here: It's emblematic of the Snyder-Cerrato/Allen leadership.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Very interesting take. I am wholly uneducated on this matter--but I am willing to bet dollars-to-donuts that either this, or someplace in East Bum****, VA, where Bruce has buddies. 1000% chance they make a terrible decision.

 

Yeah I know some here think I just pile on just to pile on Bruce-Dan.  But I've complemented them at the times where I thought they made good moves whether its in FA or whatever.  On the aggregate though I don't think much of either one.  But I got no problem parceling what I've liked at times.  The stadium thus far doesn't seem to be going hot. 

 

I'll say 2 things about the stadium. 

 

1.  It's plausible that there are things going on that hasn't been leaked where perhaps they are rock and rolling and are close.  Though I do doubt it.

 

2.  Based at least on what I've read and heard from the people who seem on top of the story:  Liz Clark mostly and to a lesser extent Rick Snider. Sheehan and Loverro claim to have heard some things or two.  They've really botched this by already misplaying every state in different ways.

 

And if it's true that its Bruce running this with just some help from his brother and that's it and he pulls this off -- wow.   I'll say in advance to the few Bruce backers here, I'll give the dude major props if he one army bands this through.  Because my thought on it now is Bruce either doesn't get how hard this typically is or maybe Dan doesn't get it -- or much more likely Bruce totally gets its difficult but can you get better job security than Dan thinking the most important task to help bolster this franchise is all in Bruce's hands?   

 

The thing is when you are trying to get something passed politically at the very least you always have something in motion and in the works.  It doesn't mean it's going down but you have a plan in motion with some progress in play.  All Bruce has to keep doing is say hey we are close -- we got this guy on board or that person, etc.  So to take Bruce off the chase would come off like hey we are going to lose all the progress made and we got to go all the way back to square one.   

 

Brewer among others have said Bruce's job is safe because of the stadium.   Based on what's been reported, I think their best shot to avoid the current Fed-ex land as the solution is to hope the DC Mayor goes beyond being supportive of it and amps up her game to actually push it hard.   In other words, I think they need a strong advocate who is willing to put some of their own leg work and political capital into this.  Because I doubt Bruce will push up this big rock up the hill on his own so to speak.  And I'd feel this way even if I thought Bruce was competent which i don't. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah I know some here think I just pile on just to pile on Bruce-Dan.  But I've complemented them at the times where I thought they made good moves whether its in FA or whatever.  On the aggregate though I don't think much of either one.  But I got no problem parceling what I've liked at times.  The stadium thus far doesn't seem to be going hot. 

 

I really don't know how anyone can defend either at this point--other than being just a complete, blind homer. Yes, they had a good draft--but I credit Kyle Smith more than anyone else. Bruce just seems to go by what other people do, and take credit for it. Last year's draft and FA signings were all based on McCloughan's evaluations, weren't they?

 

He just seems the stereotypical slimy, two-faced politician.

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Based at least on what I've read and heard from the people who seem on top of the story:  Liz Clark mostly and to a lesser extent Rick Snider. Sheehan and Loverro claim to have heard some things or two.  They've really botched this by already misplaying every state in different ways.

 

I don't trust Snider or Loverro as far as I can throw them. The others, however, I believe. My hot take: this stadium will be worse than FedEx.

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2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I really don't know how anyone can defend either at this point--other than being just a complete, blind homer. Yes, they had a good draft--but I credit Kyle Smith more than anyone else. Bruce just seems to go by what other people do, and take credit for it. Last year's draft and FA signings were all based on McCloughan's evaluations, weren't they?

 

He just seems the stereotypical slimy, two-faced politician.

 

I don't trust Snider or Loverro as far as I can throw them. The others, however, I believe. My hot take: this stadium will be worse than FedEx.

You guys are getting a new stadium?

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6 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

You guys are getting a new stadium?

 

Supposedly. I have no belief whatsoever Snyder and Allen won't completely drop the ball on this.

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1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Supposedly. I have no belief whatsoever Snyder and Allen won't completely drop the ball on this.

Your current stadium looks nice from what I see in pics. It looks as good as Lambeau.

2 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Projected to finish 2038.

Oh wow. Is it going to be close to the same spot as Fed Ex Field?

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9 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

Your current stadium looks nice from what I see in pics. It looks as good as Lambeau.

Oh wow. Is it going to be close to the same spot as Fed Ex Field?

I heard Canada. Dan thinks we can compete with Calgary and play for championships most years. Bruce can get land up there for a song.  Word is they can dismantle FedX and transport it to Canada on Dan's yacht. Might take a few trips. There will be more party decks. It will still ooze Bruce and Dan.  No win here.

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35 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

Your current stadium looks nice from what I see in pics. It looks as good as Lambeau.

 

It's a ****hole most Redskins fans hate going to.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, ThePackisback said:

Your current stadium looks nice from what I see in pics. It looks as good as Lambeau.

Winning is a drug. This is what happens when opponent fans visit FedEx:

 

giphy.gif

Edited by NickyJ
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6 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Projected to finish 2038.

Where in the world are you hearing that 😂😂 stop messing with the packers fan 😂

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I really don't know how anyone can defend either at this point--other than being just a complete, blind homer. Yes, they had a good draft--but I credit Kyle Smith more than anyone else. Bruce just seems to go by what other people do, and take credit for it. Last year's draft and FA signings were all based on McCloughan's evaluations, weren't they?

 

...The others, however, I believe. My hot take: this stadium will be worse than FedEx.

 

As for the Bruce-Dan stuff I agree with your points.   Scot though would be the 2017 off season.  I think it's all Kyle as for the draft since.  I do think there are some good people that work in that building.  But I do think Dan-Bruce are the major weak links.  And if your weak links are the dudes that are in charge -- you are in deep trouble.

 

Yeah Liz Clark seems to be the most informed on the stadium and most of what I said is stuff she's said in a radio interview and a podcast.   On this issue specifically, I've seen how it can play out at least in Florida.  I wasn't the lead on anything on that front.  But a friend of mine ran the political effort and had me do some work on it.  From what I've seen from that experience and I've since talked to my friend more about the process relating to what they've seen the Redskins do and I'll just say from that perspective it appears Bruce-Dan are going down the road less traveled.   And I got serious doubts it's going to work.

 

In politics timing is everything.  They had Mcauliffe fawning all over them when he was governor but he's gone now.   As for Congress if the WP report is true they didn't anticipate the change in party control of Congress and got caught off guard by it and then scrambled to recover but too late.  Their main advocate on the DC council is under federal investigation.  Their main alley in the White House from what I heard was the secretary of interior who is now gone.   I don't know what went wrong if anything did with Hogan in Maryland but whatever went down Hogan felt compelled to talk publicly about how the idea of the National Harbor area is now off the table as for the stadium.

 

Forgetting all of that, I think they'd need all the help they can get on it.  Lafemina from what I recall had some experience securing stadiums. But he's gone now.  By letting this play out, you've lost some key political allies just by natural political attrition and you took it to a time period where the team's reputation as a business force is at an all time low.  Now you also got both Dan and Bruce at a low point with fans where you got declining stadium attendance and TV ratings.  To me at least, unless I am missing something (and I hope I am because I'd love a spanking new stadium) their timing couldn't be any worse. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Like everything else Snyder touches, this is falling apart.

 

I'd say I hope this is death knell for Allen. But, it's still Snyder picking his replacement.

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5 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Where in the world are you hearing that 😂😂 stop messing with the packers fan 😂

I truly believed that too. Boy I feel dumb.

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5 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

I truly believed that too. Boy I feel dumb.

FedEx Field lease is up in 2027 i believe. Or 2028. 

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14 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Why would I travel out in the cold to that dank, urine-soaked hell hole (A+ for anyone who gets that reference w/o googling)

I spent my formative years substituting Simpsons quotes for actual conversation.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/11/2019 at 4:12 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dan just got an extra $274.3 million in the middle of that attendance decline. And that's just for last season.

 

giphy.gif

Edited by Califan007
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6 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

 

 

Dan just got an extra $274.3 million in the middle of that attendance decline. And that's just for last season.

 

giphy.gif

No he didnt, thats not even close to true.  He did not get "an extra $274.3 million", $274 million is just the normal revenue share for that season for broadcast revenues, it was $256 million the year before. Its not extra, its part of the core income of every team and has been going on since there were TVs.

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9 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

No he didnt, thats not even close to true.  He did not get "an extra $274.3 million", $274 million is just the normal revenue share for that season for broadcast revenues, it was $256 million the year before. Its not extra, its part of the core income of every team and has been going on since there were TVs.

 

it's "extra" because it's on top of what each team generates through its own individual operations. It's not earned through executive management of the franchise.

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4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Dan just got an extra $274.3 million in the middle of that attendance decline. And that's just for last season.

And the vast majority of these are paid by Jerruh.

 

Cherry on top!

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10 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I spent my formative years substituting Simpsons quotes for actual conversation.

You stopped?! How?

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Dan just got an extra $274.3 million in the middle of that attendance decline. And that's just for last season.

 

 

No doubt the NFL is a cash cow regardless of the stadium.

 

I don't think Dan has it in him to ever build a consistent winner or win a SB unless he gets super lucky at the QB position.  Haskins, please be the one?  😀  But the decline of the Redskins as a brand has really shocked me.  I thought for his many faults at understanding how to build a winning culture -- the dude still understood how to sell a brand in spite of all that. 

 

If I recall under his stewardship the Redskins have the 4th worst record in the NFL or something close to that.  But despite that all, the team can sell tickets-merchandise and hype.  We had a stretch where we were the #1 money making franchise in the NFL without really winning much -- that's astounding to me.   

 

But now we got articles with quotes from anonymous NFL front office people saying Dan doesn't make the NFL money.  And that Jerry is quirky like Dan but he actually makes the NFL money, etc.  I actually think that's a bit unfair.  Dan was a juggernaut at making money.   You got to be really good at selling hype when the team doesn't win.  And I don't mean that sarcastically.  It is a feat.  And obviously he can still make money but something seems to be missing in recent years.

 

And as a Redskins fan out of the DMV area, in spite of the losing, over the years if people see me wearing a Redskins shirt they'd get it.  It was a big team.  Now I get asked about it -- dude the Redskins, how?   It feels like its become one of those marginal teams on the periphery.  When Good Morning Football in one segment defended why they talk about certain teams and not so much others and one of their hosts joked that hey we can talk about teams like the Titans and Redskins but we want actual viewers -- that felt like a low point to me.  But I get what they mean. 

 

They are still a big money generator but the arrow seems pointing down at least some. Of the top 10 franchises money wise they were one of the only not to have their value increase from the previous year -- or at least that's what one web site said.  Each year it seems like a new organization leapfrogs us.  We are #5 now.  We are third in the division not even close to Dallas now -- neither sadly is any team.  And if this trend continues I'd presume the Eagles will eventually leapfrog us, too since they aren't that far behind.   

 

We got the top selling ten jerseys in the league being mostly players from NFC East teams -- except no Redskins.  I don't think we have a dude in the top 75 let alone multiple guys in the top 10 if I recall.  We can't get a Sunday night game two seasons in a row.  We can't even get a 4 pm game this year.  The NFL gives those spots to teams who draw national ratings.  I've seen this team twice now mentioned on national shows as one that no one really cares about much hence they don't give us a lot of attention.   

 

So on this front i want to see some old school Danny revive the brand.   I don't love reading about how the Cowboys now at times are getting better TV ratings in the DMV.  Too many seem to be checking out.    And yeah I get winning helps cure all.  But he used to be able to pump the brand without winning.  Not that i want him to do something reckless that defeats the larger goal of winning.  But I'd like to see something.  That's why the stadium stuff concerns me.  It doesn't look to me that they are that hot at playing their cards right with it thus far.    And it by far I think is their best shot to revive the brand.  I do think the current stadium is part of the malaise with the fan base. 

 

Aside from winning, nothing would give me a great jolt than reading about a spanking new stadium with all the bells and whistles in a good location.  I don't think it's an accident that the Cowboys are now by a mile the most valuable franchise post the new stadium.  I've been to Jerry World, its cool, I personally think its a bit overrated but still it blows the socks off of Fedex.     

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I recall under his stewardship the Redskins have the 4th worst record in the NFL or something close to that.  But despite that all, the team can sell tickets-merchandise and hype.  We had a stretch where we were the #1 money making franchise in the NFL without really winning much -- that's astounding to me.  

 

 

 

Close...they have the 7th worst record over that time lol...

 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

I know you've said in the past how seeing the Skins' relevance and importance decline either saddened or angered you (or both lol)...it does me, too, but I think I'm of the mindset that I actually prefer how they've recently been approaching roster building and showing more patience towards the coaching staff, even if it comes with a reduced relevancy. Over the last 4 seasons, the Skins have the 17th best winning percentage as compared to having the 28th best winning percentage under Snyder up until that point. I guess I'm the proponent of having a relevancy rebuild and tanking a few seasons of relevancy if necessary to do so lol...I prefer that to going big and splashy and failing. The Skins haven't had any sexy names to promote in quite a while...I think Desean Jackson might have been the last player to fit that description (far, far more than Norman). I'm seriously hoping Allen, Payne, Sweat, and Haskins end up filling that role moving forward. Guice, too, if he ever can find a way to just stay healthy for a season or two instead of a month or two lol 😐...

Edited by Califan007

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

I know you've said in the past how seeing the Skins' relevance and importance decline either saddened or angered you (or both lol)...it does me, too, but I think I'm of the mindset that I actually prefer how they've recently been approaching roster building and showing more patience towards the coaching staff, even if it comes with a reduced relevancy. Over the last 4 seasons, the Skins have the 17th best winning percentage as compared to having the 28th best winning percentage under Snyder up until that point. I guess I'm the proponent of having a relevancy rebuild and tanking a few seasons of relevancy if necessary to do so lol...I prefer that to going big and splashy and failing. The Skins haven't had any sexy names to promote in quite a while...I think Desean Jackson might have been the last player to fit that description (far, far more than Norman). I'm seriously hoping Allen, Payne, Sweat, and Haskins end up filling that role moving forward. Guice, too, if he ever can find a way to just stay healthy for a season or two instead of a month or two lol 😐...

 

I was on board with the mediocrity initially.   It felt better than stinking.  But now I am off of that, I'd rather go 4-12 than 8-8 especially with the next draft looming to be IMO epically exciting where we got the chance to get a potential star like J. Jeudy.  As for anger-sadness, a lot of it is about my kids, i can tell that they aren't hyped about this team and i've seen them hyped in the past.  I am headed to training camp for a few days starting next week and i can tell they can care less.   🙁

 

This doesn't speak to your view but just my general take.   While I am 100% with those who are negative about Dan and Bruce but I am sort of in between the homers and those who are negative about the roster or think the FO is the worst.   And I've been that way for years.  I disagree with those homers who think they are building a really good team and we just have to hang in there.  I think they are dead wrong.   I think the roster decisions totally speak to their mediocrity -- some really good moves, some really bad moves, some so so.  To me they aren't on the verge of squat.   They build up one spot of their roster well.   And then get weaker in another.  They add depth one place.  And get weaker in another.  While it's impossible to be strong everywhere, you got plenty of teams with stacked rosters and a lot of that is based on making lots of good roster decisions.  IMO we haven't done that or have the ability to do that with the current structure.  

 

So being a so so team makes all the sense to me in the world.  It totally fits.  And i don't think they are on the right track if the goal is to be a winner.  But I also disagree with those that think it's really bad.  To me they've made some bad decisions.  They've also made some good ones.   It's not one of the worst operations in the NFL IMO as most in the national media purport.  To me its mediocre.  It doesn't have it in them to build a consistent winner but its a not a train wreck either.   But I think that's part of the problem with fan sentiment.  I don't think I am alone in thinking that they have it in them to stay on this 7-9-9-7 track for perpetuity.  But how easy is it to get jazzed about that?  And that's the segment of the fan base that's on the optimistic side of the pendulum.  Judging by twitter, talk radio, this blog etc i think maybe you got a handful of people thinking they are building something better than mediocrity.

 

I do think they can escape mediocrity only in one way -- get the QB position right.  As I've elaborated on many times as much as I love and pushed the value of having a strong D line, there have been teams who have stunk with loaded D lines like ours.  You need a QB to win with rare exceptions and those exceptions typically don't last. 

 

So what do you do about it?  I mentioned many times on this thread that my in laws are Giant fans, got friends too who are fans of that team because I went to college in NY.  So I've lived vicariously as to some of their fandom.   The Giants like the Redskins haven't been great of late.  Yet, they seem to get a lot more attention and national respect.  Yeah Gettleman takes his licks.  But regardless, they are more talked about.  Football magazines among others pick them ahead of the Redskins, etc.  Why?  I think it was about Beckham and now Barkley.  They got some star power.  I go to Barnes and Nobles and Barkley is on the cover of just about every sports magazine it seems. 

 

Funny you mention Desean.  I've talked (as you have) at seeing being a fan of the team from the eyes of youngish kids.  And from my kids stand point outside of the height of RG3 mania, Desean was the next best thing.   We ran into Desean once in a hotel and my daughter was star struck.  He was a big enough player to get a reality show.  I don't think Desean is a mega star but in the context of Redskins players he's a big name.  

 

I thought it was interesting to hear from my wife who is a Giants fan when they signed Adrian Peterson last year that to her he doesn't seem like a Redskins type of player.  When I pushed the point further, she explained she doesn't associate star payers with the Redskins.  And she wasn't taking a dig that was just her impression of the Redskins.

 

Granted that's a small sample.  But I do think the point extends to others.  We don't have players ranked highly typically in any of these top 100 rankings whether its PFF or the players selecting them, etc.  I agree with your point about Guice, Sweat, Haskins, Allen.   I like Payne but don't see him as potential star power.    They need one of these guys to break the mold of being a good to very good player to being one of the NFL elites.     

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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