The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Wildbunny]

9 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Landon Collins probably isn't the savior that people have hyped him up to be, but not even playing a down is a bit harsh.

I think he was talking about reuben Foster 

[NickyJ]

7 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

I think he was talking about reuben Foster 

Oh. And I here I thought our GM signed Landon Collins, and that people were giving him credit for it. Never mind then.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Oh. And I here I thought our GM signed Landon Collins, and that people were giving him credit for it. Never mind then.

 

You weren't the only one confused by that post lol...I'm still not sure exactly what he was trying to say.

[NickyJ]

12 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You weren't the only one confused by that post lol...I'm still not sure exactly what he was trying to say.

The impression I've got is she's saying that Bruce Allen, the person who it's safe to say is hated by 75% of our fans, is being given too much credit, and that much of the disgust held for him was washed away by signing a linebacker who is now injured.

 

I'm just being a smart-ass here and saying that Bruce's reputation is absolutely being influenced by more than one single player.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

The impression I've got is she's saying that Bruce Allen, the person who it's safe to say is hated by 75% of our fans, is being given too much credit, and that much of the disgust held for him was washed away by signing a linebacker who is now injured.

 

I'm just being a smart-ass here and saying that Bruce's reputation is absolutely being influenced by more than one single player.

 

it didn't really succeed as either sarcasm or criticism because it was too muddled lol...

 

Your description is about perfect now that I'm reading it--they were probably bristling at seeing Allen get any credit or positive reviews at all--here and in the media--and jumped at the chance to use anything that didn't go as planned to say "Ha! See? Allen is still a chump, nothing's changed."

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

I don't think Bruce Allen is as bad as people on this site make him out to be. You can't blame Bruce for the injury's but i guess you could blame him for taking players with a injured past. On second thought...... hmmm

 

I'll still take Bruce Allen over anything Vinny Cerratto brought to this team.

[Skinsinparadise]

The reason IMO Bruce won't be celebrated by most (or more on point Dan) for any one or even multiple moves whether it's R. Foster or whomever is because the off season almost always included victories in the mix year after year.  It's never been ha -- look at that move take that!  They have always had nice moments in the mix.  Really every organization does.  As much as Gettleman is ridiculed right now around the league -- its not like every move he's made has been a joke.  He arguably had one of the better drafts last year in the league.   He is getting buzz this off season in theory for turning around the worst O line in the league into an above average one at least according to some observers.    So why give Gettleman a hard time?  Well, because it looks like on the aggregate the Giants aren't poised to go anywhere.  So the sum of the parts don't add up -- at least in theory. 

 

I've used this analogy before about Jay.  I guess I'd be considered a Jay apologist considering I mostly like him and don't see him as a flagrant problem as so many here seem to think him to be.  Nonetheless, if I went on Jay's thread which is full of critics after a big win and said see what do you guys say now!  I'd be laughed at because their criticism of Jay isn't that he does everything wrong but that on the aggregate over a longish sample they are dissatisfied about him.   So for me to do a victory lap or get some love for Jay on the Jay thread, I'd wait for the whole soup to be finished -- where its like hey they finished 10-6 and won a playoff game what do you guys have to say now? 

 

That's IMO is the bed that Dan and Bruce made.  The sample is too big to celebrate any off season perceived victory.  I also don't think most will grade them on a curve with a woulda shoulda narrative.   Or this is another positive step on their long journey to inevitable success.   The sample I think is too long for most of us to see it that way where they are given the benefit of the doubt or a break.   So on that front I am as cynical as any other. 

 

But the one thing where I agree with some of Dan's quasi defenders is would we be singing a totally different song if he actually struck gold and landed a franchise QB.  I think its certainly possible that we'd be singing a different tune about Dan-Bruce if they actually got the QB position right.  And while I grant its not easy to get the Qb position right -- its not like its totally out of their hands either where they deserve no blame for striking out at that position over and over again.

 

But maybe finally that will change.  I hope so.  I think it's all about Haskins at this juncture.  They get it right then the misery might finally end.  😀

 

 

 

[NickyJ]

Yeah, in the end, Bruce Allen sucks; a great majority of fans and media agree about it. It's going to take a metric buttload of good decisions and good results for that narrative to change. Acknowledging that "hey, this one move that Allen made actually didn't totally suck" does not mean that we all think he completely reversed course is now a good GM. It just means that one move that Allen made actually didn't totally suck.

[Skinsinparadise]

I was just listening to Sheehan's last podcast.  He hinted that there is a behind the scenes drama going on in the FO that he hopes gets settled.  He was vague about it.  But the reason why i take that just a little seriously is that he and Cooley back when they were at 980 hinted at the Scot stuff weeks before it broke out and ironically 106.7 officially broke the story.  Back then Sheehan was vague too.

 

[Llevron]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was just listening to Sheehan's last podcast.  He hinted that there is a behind the scenes drama going on in the FO that he hopes gets settled.  He was vague about it.  But the reason why i take that just a little seriously is that he and Cooley back when they were at 980 hinted at the Scot stuff weeks before it broke out and ironically 106.7 officially broke the story.  Back then Sheehan was vague too.

 

 

I hope its about the training facility and all the injuries. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was just listening to Sheehan's last podcast.  He hinted that there is a behind the scenes drama going on in the FO that he hopes gets settled.  He was vague about it.  But the reason why i take that just a little seriously is that he and Cooley back when they were at 980 hinted at the Scot stuff weeks before it broke out and ironically 106.7 officially broke the story.  Back then Sheehan was vague too.

 

I'm strapped in and ready to go. It's been too quiet around here, LETS GET SOME DRAMA GOING! 

[teamcal00]

I'm guessing Schaffer vs. Smith for rightful heir to the GM title throne

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I hope its about the training facility and all the injuries. 

 

Got the vibe it's some internal battle between some of the FO people the way he said it or some gossip like incident that hasn't been revealed.  He implied he hopes it works itself out so it doesn't spill into training camp or something like that. 

 

It makes me wonder if there is something about Chris Russell's take recently which is he thinks Doug wants a promotion or more power and Kyle ultimately will want the same and Doug wouldn't be happy if Kyle is elevated to a position above his.    I am not suggesting that's the narrative but wonder if Kyle, Doug, Schaffer have competing ambitions and then you got Bruce above them.  So wonder if you got some Game of Thrones thing cooking behind the scenes.  If it's not that then maybe just some gossipy thing happened? That is, if Sheehan's sources are right. 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The reason IMO Bruce won't be celebrated by most (or more on point Dan) for any one or even multiple moves whether it's R. Foster or whomever is because the off season almost always included victories in the mix year after year.  It's never been ha -- look at that move take that!  They have always had nice moments in the mix.  Really every organization does. 

5

 

I see things a little differently (surprise, huh lol)...When you have "victories in the mix" over the course of 3 straight years, it tends to point to the front office that is improving the team, which a lot of fans would never consider possible under Allen's watch. They've made bad moves as well to counter some of those good moves, but somehow they have survived those mistakes without it really harming the team. Our floor now seems to be 7 wins since we haven't gone beneath that total in the last 4 years...and this is after we never had more than 6 wins between 2009-2014 except for one year. That's obviously not the goal, but it is improvement.

 

So there are fans--and I'm one of them--who feel that the criticism of Allen and probably even Snyder is overblown. Not that they don't deserve criticism, both men definitely do. And I agree with everyone who says it will (or should) take a lot more improvement to make even Bruce and Dan's children claim Allen is now a good "GM" or that Snyder is now a good owner lol. But it's become easier for a segment of the fans to acknowledge moves they consider to be good without adding on a long list of disclaimers to make sure nobody thinks they're saying Allen and Snyder are actually good.

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Does anyone else recall the report last year, that Allen was deciding the game day lineup e.g. inactives etc? 

 

Or, was it a nightmare.... TIA.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Does anyone else recall the report last year, that Allen was deciding the game day lineup e.g. inactives etc? 

 

Or, was it a nightmare.... TIA.

 

I thought it was that Allen was dictating the DLine rotation and playing time lol...

[RandyHolt]

4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

I thought it was that Allen was dictating the DLine rotation and playing time lol...

 

Thanks. I remember that it had something to do with the defensive side of the ball.  It is just such a bizarro report, that looking back on it, I questioned my recollection.  He was basically deciding, who plays.  Sure other GMs may help a coach decide who should get reps, but he isn't even our GM. We don't have one.  Maybe Jerry Jones is his idol.

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I thought it was that Allen was dictating the DLine rotation and playing time lol...

 

Good lord this is one of those things that you just HOPE isn't true, but secretly you know there's good of a chance that it is. 

[HardcoreZorn]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

I thought it was that Allen was dictating the DLine rotation and playing time lol...

 

Wait I thought Allen was using a signal blocker to screw up the coaches original play calls and instead was calling the plays himself via headset and radio self installed in his favorite players helmet by Allen before every game...

 

I think what gives me a good chuckle is how when everything is going wrong it’s Bruce Bruce Bruce has his hands in too many cookie jars. Nail the draft and have a good offseason? Those same people will say Bruce doesn’t even do anything. 

 

I personally believe Bruce doesn’t do much other than delegate, have said so for years and it’s caused me to question how this guy of all guys has become such a target for the fans. Funny how it all works though.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

I see things a little differently (surprise, huh lol)...When you have "victories in the mix" over the course of 3 straight years, it tends to point to the front office that is improving the team, which a lot of fans would never consider possible under Allen's watch.

 

 

I'd agree if the idea was we all thought we were losing every off season until the last three years so what a relief to finally have some off season good vibes for a change.   But that's not how it's been.  Not even close.  Heck Doc Walker makes a running joke about how we have been the kings of the off season for well over a decade, where there is always some feel good vibe about something.   And then too bad the season starts....😀

 

We got this guy or that guy and it all feels good.  Drafts -- FA's -- new coaches, etc.  It's always something new to get jazzed about.  And yes some of this stuff indeed works out.  Some of it doesn't.  Vinny's 2004 FA crop to this day is probably the best FA class here of all time.   London Fletcher was a killer signing.  We got Sean Taylor and Chris Cooley in the same draft.  Heck some of us thought that Shanny got like 7 starters at the time after the 2011 draft.  When we got RG3 we got our franchise QB and received stratospheric level crazy hype.   On and on and on.   This is just another chapter in it as opposed to one of the only versions of it. 

 

The problem here hasn't been the feeling that the off season had no victories to it.   It's been that on the aggregate it hasn't translated to being a winning team.   Heck as good as this off season feels in places, it doesn't change in my mind the outlook of this team beating their 7-9 recent runs (or maybe 8-8?) unless Haskins is the goods this season.   Will see.  

 

And if your point is we have become a steady mediocre team (not awful and not great) and we should appreciate that.  I get it sort of.  But I disagree.

I think I'd rather for example do the Gibbs 2 version of things where we go 2 out of 4 seasons to the playoffs versus being stuck with the 7-9-8-8 drill.  I'd say the golden age under Dan was the Gibbs 4 year run not this run.  But granted we are splitting hairs because neither run deserves celebration IMO.    I do like how they operate now better than Gibbs 2 but again it has to ultimately result in winning.   And real winning versus the ifs and the buts equaled candy and nuts drill. 

 

Keep in mind, Bruce had to earn his place with fans.  They weren't against him from day 1.  They were excited about him.     Vinny is gone, hooray!  So fans never thinking Bruce can have some victories in the mix of the off season -- not sure where you are coming from on that.  It took work for Bruce to lose his standing with fans including me.  Heck I recall the Vinny thread (similar to this one) where in the soup we praised him on somethings.   In retrospect, some seem to think Vinny had no defenders but I recall them. 

 

I've said before Bruce IMO is mediocre at his job in the FO and does a poor job putting up a good face for the team publicly.  I think he's improved his PR skills tremendously though this year.  As for him as a FO guy to me he's "meh".  Not terrible.  Not good.  I think he's the weak link (along with Santos) in the chain of the FO.  And i've explained why many times.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 But it's become easier for a segment of the fans to acknowledge moves they consider to be good without adding on a long list of disclaimers to make sure nobody thinks they're saying Allen and Snyder are actually good.

 

 

 

Because making moves that are perceived to be good and actually having a good team are two different animals.  It's not the same thing.   Dan has won the perception game plenty of off seasons.  But fans aren't FO people.   Just because for example I or whomever loved the Harmon pick in the 6th round doesn't mean squat.   I am not a professional football guy.  When I was in front of Scot that one time i told him I want done whatever he wants done.  

 

i don't think people here make it that hard for Dan and Bruce really to show us up.  Most of us flat out say go win Dan-Bruce and show us your way works and then we will happily say you guys are right we are wrong.  You'd think after all these years they'd do it based on dumb luck alone.  It should eventually happen based on the law of averages alone.  I just hope it's not 10 years from now but soon.

 

I personally think you have to have a special front office and a bit of luck to develop a successful franchise without a franchise QB.  Baltimore has sort of done that but otherwise it's been hard and rare.

 

That's why for some of the people here who I gather would bask in people eating crow about Dan and Bruce -- I think then its all about Haskins, Haskins, Haskins.  They get it right with him then you'll have plenty of chances to tell people to suck it up and give Bruce-Dan credit.  And I'd have no problem doing it.  Zilch.  And I promise I'll do it with no disclaimers.  I live and die with every game -- it gives me no joy to be right about anything negative about anything Redskins related.    I'd love every minute of coming on here if they go 11-5 or whatever and head to the playoffs -- I'd first of all likely go to the game and I'll find some wi fi on the flight headed there and happily type on this very thread that Bruce-Dan's genius paid off.  😀 

 

And my only disclaimer to it is I'd like to see more success than heading to the playoffs every 4 years or so.  Heck I'd even take something like the Falcons-Gibbs 2 version of success -- every other year.  But I won't wait for that before praising them.

[Wildbunny]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was just listening to Sheehan's last podcast.  He hinted that there is a behind the scenes drama going on in the FO that he hopes gets settled.  He was vague about it.  But the reason why i take that just a little seriously is that he and Cooley back when they were at 980 hinted at the Scot stuff weeks before it broke out and ironically 106.7 officially broke the story.  Back then Sheehan was vague too.

 

Jay GRuden Broke's Bruce Allen's ACL?

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

Jay GRuden Broke's Bruce Allen's ACL?

 

I am going to predict Jay is trying to break Bruce (assistant head coach, defense) Allen's grip on the defense.  The story from last year is SO crazy, that our resident mole couldn't even make that one up.

 

I wonder who is currently making which calls.  I bet the simplest of personnel moves is far more chaotic than other teams.

[RWJ]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd agree if the idea was we all thought we were losing every off season until the last three years so what a relief to finally have some off season good vibes for a change.   But that's not how it's been.  Not even close.  Heck Doc Walker makes a running joke about how we have been the kings of the off season for well over a decade, where there is always some feel good vibe about something.   And then too bad the season starts....😀

 

We got this guy or that guy and it all feels good.  Drafts -- FA's -- new coaches, etc.  It's always something new to get jazzed about.  And yes some of this stuff indeed works out.  Some of it doesn't.  Vinny's 2004 FA crop to this day is probably the best FA class here of all time.   London Fletcher was a killer signing.  We got Sean Taylor and Chris Cooley in the same draft.  Heck some of us thought that Shanny got like 7 starters at the time after the 2011 draft.  When we got RG3 we got our franchise QB and received stratospheric level crazy hype.   On and on and on.   This is just another chapter in it as opposed to one of the only versions of it. 

 

The problem here hasn't been the feeling that the off season had no victories to it.   It's been that on the aggregate it hasn't translated to being a winning team.   Heck as good as this off season feels in places, it doesn't change in my mind the outlook of this team beating their 7-9 recent runs (or maybe 8-8?) unless Haskins is the goods this season.   Will see.  

 

And if your point is we have become a steady mediocre team (not awful and not great) and we should appreciate that.  I get it sort of.  But I disagree.

I think I'd rather for example do the Gibbs 2 version of things where we go 2 out of 4 seasons to the playoffs versus being stuck with the 7-9-8-8 drill.  I'd say the golden age under Dan was the Gibbs 4 year run not this run.  But granted we are splitting hairs because neither run deserves celebration IMO.    I do like how they operate now better than Gibbs 2 but again it has to ultimately result in winning.   And real winning versus the ifs and the buts equaled candy and nuts drill. 

 

Keep in mind, Bruce had to earn his place with fans.  They weren't against him from day 1.  They were excited about him.     Vinny is gone, hooray!  So fans never thinking Bruce can have some victories in the mix of the off season -- not sure where you are coming from on that.  It took work for Bruce to lose his standing with fans including me.  Heck I recall the Vinny thread (similar to this one) where in the soup we praised him on somethings.   In retrospect, some seem to think Vinny had no defenders but I recall them. 

 

I've said before Bruce IMO is mediocre at his job in the FO and does a poor job putting up a good face for the team publicly.  I think he's improved his PR skills tremendously though this year.  As for him as a FO guy to me he's "meh".  Not terrible.  Not good.  I think he's the weak link (along with Santos) in the chain of the FO.  And i've explained why many times.  

 

 

 

 

Agree 100% with the underlined, bolded and text in "red"

[Reaper Skins]

The article I think people are referring to is this one that says Bruce Allen is the one in charge of replays/deciding when to throw the challenge flag.

 

Will Redskins Coach Jay Gruden ever win a coach’s challenge?

Jay Gruden’s first season as an NFL coach has been rough. Heading into the bye week amid a report that Robert Griffin III has alienated teammates, the Redskins are 3-6 for the seventh time in the last 11 years. From a personal — and admittedly more trivial — standpoint, Gruden is 0-for-the-season on coach’s challenges, though Redskins replay consultant Bruce Allen, who also doubles as the team’s president and general manager, deserves some of the blame.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/04/will-redskins-head-coach-jay-gruden-ever-win-a-coachs-challenge/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a43919c2c04c

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

On 5/27/2019 at 4:00 PM, Reaper Skins said:

The article I think people are referring to is this one that says Bruce Allen is the one in charge of replays/deciding when to throw the challenge flag.

 

Will Redskins Coach Jay Gruden ever win a coach’s challenge?

Jay Gruden’s first season as an NFL coach has been rough. Heading into the bye week amid a report that Robert Griffin III has alienated teammates, the Redskins are 3-6 for the seventh time in the last 11 years. From a personal — and admittedly more trivial — standpoint, Gruden is 0-for-the-season on coach’s challenges, though Redskins replay consultant Bruce Allen, who also doubles as the team’s president and general manager, deserves some of the blame.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/04/will-redskins-head-coach-jay-gruden-ever-win-a-coachs-challenge/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a43919c2c04c

 

 

There is that one, but there was also a tweet going around last season about Bruce dictating the playing time and/or rotataion of the DL...

 

There was a time where a LOT of stuff was being chalked up as directives from Bruce. Not sure if any of it was shown to be true (other than him being "replay consultant", since Gruden was on record as Allen serving in that role).