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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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On 5/13/2019 at 8:44 AM, Califan007 said:

 

In the hype video I just watched, at the end of the video they show both the Haskins jersey and the Sweat jersey being hung up in their respective lockers...had me nodding and sporting a ****-eating grin lol...but I also imagined them only hanging one of those jerseys--would I have been as excited? I wasn't feeling it for just Sweat or Haskins. For me, having both those talents infused into the team at the same time is exciting and intriguing.

 

Maybe I’ll weigh in again now that it’s a bit less grim around here lol.

 

I think this is a great point and I consider myself in this boat. I don’t think it’s just Haskins, though yes I would never disagree that a young QB brings hope and optimism and he’s a huge driver for the recent surge in fan excitement. 

 

But I think what we’re beginning to see here is not only a team that features a young talented QB, but a young talented QB that is surrounded by a young talented nucleus of players. Mostly guys WE drafted  and developed. Do we have holes? Surely. By no means are defensive coordinators staying up at night trying to figure out how to defend our receiving corps (though to be fair I think favorably of Mclaurin and Harmon pickups). ILB still a ? but Foster is an enormous talent and it’s not like his rookie year he didn’t flash that talent so counting on him to be a pretty significant upgrade. Secondary could definitely stand to upgrade but it’s also no trainwreak. You get the point, we aren’t perfect or without holes. But this is a much stronger team pretty much everywhere than the team Robert Griffin took over in 2012. It’s honestly not even close. Dont believe me, just look for yourself. Reed Doughty and Madieu Williams were our starting safeties, oh boy. And that’s just the start of it.

 

What you’re seeing are successful drafts beginning to payoff. Starting in 2014 and on, this team has gotten infinitely better at drafting and stack up very favorably against any team league wide. 2016 is the one meh year, but even that netted us Ioan and Fuller who we never should have traded. 2017-2019 we have accumulated a stupid amount of talent. And people are beginning to catch on. So yeah, Haskins is a huge breath of fresh air and it’s exciting to have a young QB that has the potential to be really good. But just as exciting is a DL featuring Ioan Payne and Allen for at least the next 3 seasons along with Settle, along with Kerrigan and Sweat coming off the edge and missles like Foster and Collins patrolling the spine of the D. Offense still needs some work but we have the makings of a very good OL (please for the love of god stay healthy) and strong running game with AP Guice CT and now Love. Certainly there are question marks, but just as certain is this TEAM has tremendous upside. Still not confident they reach it with the uncertainty at QB, but in my opinion, it’s that people are seeing a real football team being built. The foundation and trenches of the team have been built. Now you’re seeing us add a QB and sprinkle in some skill guys that hopefully in due time make us legitimate contenders.

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Bruce needs to get on the phone with Gase ASAP. The time is now to capitalize. You just know there’s a good player or two there Gase doesn’t like for some reason and will sell low. Or he’s just overwhelmed and can get bamboozled. Whatever, just capitalize. :ols: 

 

I’m only half kidding here. Actually, screw that, I’m not kidding at all. 

 

That being said Santos and co. haven’t necessarily been good at pro personnel (or Bruce isn’t listening), so I don’t know if we’d actually nab the right guy from them, lol. Still, I hope they try. 

 

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4 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Bruce needs to get on the phone with Gase ASAP. The time is now to capitalize. You just know there’s a good player or two there Gase doesn’t like for some reason and will sell low. Or he’s just overwhelmed and can get bamboozled. Whatever, just capitalize. :ols: 

 

I’m only half kidding here. Actually, screw that, I’m not kidding at all. 

 

That being said Santos and co. haven’t necessarily been good at pro personnel (or Bruce isn’t listening), so I don’t know if we’d actually nab the right guy from them, lol. Still, I hope they try. 

 

Who on the Jets roster would the skins be interested in?... there's that..uhh..they have that .ummmm..what's his name ..there's that...maybe a corner?..d linemen?

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4 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Bruce needs to get on the phone with Gase ASAP. The time is now to capitalize. You just know there’s a good player or two there Gase doesn’t like for some reason and will sell low. Or he’s just overwhelmed and can get bamboozled. Whatever, just capitalize. :ols: 

 

I’m only half kidding here. Actually, screw that, I’m not kidding at all. 

 

That being said Santos and co. haven’t necessarily been good at pro personnel (or Bruce isn’t listening), so I don’t know if we’d actually nab the right guy from them, lol. Still, I hope they try. 

 

Gregg Williams....and there is a riff between them!

 

Trevon Wesco would be nice but he just drafted him.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Who on the Jets roster would the skins be interested in?... there's that..uhh..they have that .ummmm..what's his name ..there's that...maybe a corner?..d linemen?

 

They’ve got a decent amount of good players, like any NFL roster does. 

 

I’d take any of Robby Anderson, Quincy Enunwa, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Trumaine Johnson, Osemele, Chris Herndon, Avery Williamson and Leonard Williams. 

 

Most of those guys would likely be too expensive, though. But you never know right now. Gase can do something silly. That’s the point, lol. 

 

*Edit* I just saw on twitter right now the Chiefs are already in on the fun. :ols: 

 

 

 

Edited by thesubmittedone
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Posted (edited)

I love the D line as much as anyone, see the FA thread for the years.  And I've screamed for a pass rusher as much as anyone this off season on the draft thread.  And maybe it excites us hardcore fans to have a D line but I don't think it's bringing national attention, causal fans to the seats, better TV ratings.   And I gather that's all important to Dan now with the team struggling on those fronts and I don't blame him because its a business too.

 

But more importantly, it's typically not enough to win consistently either.  If you have a stacked roster without the QB (save Ravens who did have some good play in the mix from Flacco) you typically will have runs like we've had.  Every 4 years or so you'll sneak into the playoffs and get thumped in round 1.  Then rinse and repeat.  The Jets have had a stacked D line for years -- didn't do it for them.  Denver post Peyton have had some really good D lines -- not enough either.  Redskins 2004 defense was one of the best ever for this franchise and we had a good running game with it. 

 

Now if you have a stacked D line AND a QB.  Now IMO you are cooking with oil.  And QB is the lead dance of the two typically both in terms of winning and generating excitement.   So love pass rush but need that QB, too IMO.  Obviously the best thing to have is a balanced roster period.  And we are headed there.  But the QB has to be part of this to win consistently IMO. 

 

The QB needs a supporting cast.  But I think the FO could pull that part of the trick off.   Over the years eventually they can find a Desean Jackson, Garcon or Santana Moss.  But their inability to do it at QB IMO by a mile is the reason why this team hasn't won aside from the questionable culture stuff set from the top from Dan.   It's a passing league its the main dance.


That's why I am sticking to if Haskins ends up the real goods its a franchise changer.  If he isn't -- you can do the every 4 years or so dance and the 9-7,10-6 drill but good luck being a consistent winner without a QB.  You'd need some luck.  There are exceptions.  But I'd much rather play the odds.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

They’ve got a decent amount of good players, like any NFL roster does. 

 

I’d take any of Robby Anderson, Quincy Enunwa, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Trumaine Johnson, Osemele, Chris Herndon, Avery Williamson and Leonard Williams. 

 

Most of those guys would likely be too expensive, though. But you never know right now. Gase can do something silly. That’s the point, lol. 

 

*Edit* I just saw on twitter right now the Chiefs are already in on the fun. :ols: 

 

 

 

I've never heard of any of those players.. except for Leonard Williams for obvious reasons

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I love the D line as much as anyone, see the FA thread for the years.  And I've screamed for a pass rusher as much as anyone this off season on the draft thread.  And maybe it excites us hardcore fans to have a D line but I don't think it's bringing national attention, causal fans to the seats, better TV ratings.   And I gather that's all important to Dan now with the team struggling on those fronts and I don't blame him because its a business too.

 

But more importantly, it's typically not enough to win consistently either.  If you have a stacked roster without the QB (save Ravens who did have some good play in the mix from Flacco) you typically will have runs like we've had.  Every 4 years or so you'll sneak into the playoffs and get thumped in round 1.  Then rinse and repeat.  The Jets have had a stacked D line for years -- didn't do it for them.  Denver post Peyton have had some really good D lines -- not enough either.  Redskins 2004 defense was one of the best ever for this franchise and we had a good running game with it. 

 

Now if you have a stacked D line AND a QB.  Now IMO you are cooking with oil.  And QB is the lead dance of the two typically both in terms of winning and generating excitement.   So love pass rush but need that QB, too IMO.  Obviously the best thing to have is a balanced roster period.  And we are headed there.  But the QB has to be part of this to win consistently IMO. 

 

The QB needs a supporting cast.  But I think the FO could pull that part of the trick off.   Over the years eventually they can find a Desean Jackson, Garcon or Santana Moss.  But their inability to do it at QB IMO by a mile is the reason why this team hasn't won aside from the questionable culture stuff set from the top from Dan.   It's a passing league its the main dance.


That's why I am sticking to if Haskins ends up the real goods its a franchise changer.  If he isn't -- you can do the every 4 years or so dance and the 9-7,10-6 drill but good luck being a consistent winner without a QB.  You'd need some luck.  There are exceptions.  But I'd much rather play the odds.

Koolblue is on to something... good o line/run game and a good defense will win games..ok QB play helps to..don't have to be phenomenal play.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

but good luck being a consistent winner without a QB.  You'd need some luck.  There are exceptions.  But I'd much rather play the odds.

Image result for andrew luck smile

Edited by CaptainJames2004
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Posted (edited)

Jets show why they're an NFL punch line after ousting GM Mike Maccagnan

 

"For so long, the New York Jets have failed to understand the origin of the off-handed comments, the root of the ridicule, the genesis of the long-standing skepticism.

 

For years, they rebuffed the “circus” label.

 

For years, they defended themselves against the “Same Old Jets” moniker.

 

For years, they paraded new coaches and front-office executives in an attempt to usher in a new era of relevancy and respectability.

 

Sure, there have been moments of perceived stability. And yes, there have been moves that seemed to indicate the franchise was finally trending upward after 50 years of futility.

 

And then, there are days like Wednesday, when the dysfunction that has rotted the organization’s core for decades went on full display for all of the world to witness. Days that reiterate a simple, sobering fact this fan base needs to accept: The Jets will never be a well-run organization as long as ownership has no idea what it’s doing."

 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

**************************

 

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

They’ve got a decent amount of good players, like any NFL roster does. 

 

I’d take any of Robby Anderson, Quincy Enunwa, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Trumaine Johnson, Osemele, Chris Herndon, Avery Williamson and Leonard Williams. 

 

Most of those guys would likely be too expensive, though. But you never know right now. Gase can do something silly. That’s the point, lol. 

 

*Edit* I just saw on twitter right now the Chiefs are already in on the fun. :ols:

3

 

 

We should go after Crowder, I heard he's kinda good lol...

 

 

Edited by Califan007
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

 

good o line/run game and a good defense will win games..ok QB play helps to..don't have to be phenomenal play.

 

I get the point.   I am not talking though "phenomenal".  you don't have to be Brady, Brees. Rodgers.  But heck even if you are in that next tier like Matt Ryan you are going to be much more relevant typically than teams with game managers types at QB.    Atlanta has had their downs with their ups but heck even if it means they are in the playoffs every other year -- that would be Shangri La for Dan's Redskins.  That Atlanta run under Ryan = good times by our standards.  Let alone having a runs of 13 wins and a SB appearance, etc. 

 

And naturally who doesn't want a good defense, O line and run game.  But it's not like we haven't seen that before -- heck that's the Joe Gibbs 2 teams for the most part.  And that was an era where the passing game still wasn't nearly as dominant as its become these days.    Ideally you want it all.  But I think if anything it puts more pressure on building elite units around the team without a QB and that's not easy to do or maintain.    When Jax had a big season at least by their standards, 10-6, they had an amazing run defensively -- that defense fell off some the next year and were again bad.  Coughlin is as old school as it gets and clearly even he realized after that he needed a QB. 

 

It was mentioned that the team wasn't as stacked when RG3 was here.  The irony of that was the 10-6 season was the high point of Dan's tenure (tied with one other year) and if RG3 didn't get hurt towards the end of the season -- it felt to me then that if any season they could get to the big dance was that year.  It's tough to win a SB without either a franchise Qb or at least a good QB who gets red hot in the post season.  I never felt that Collins or Brunell had a shot to win a SB in those playoff runs.  

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 5:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe if Vinny wasn't so incompetent the owner wouldn't have to intervene.  You don't see this happening with Bruce.

 

igtp8jfcdden5j7bswwo.gif

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2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

I've never heard of any of those players.. except for Leonard Williams for obvious reasons

Really?  Anderson is an interesting talent.  He's a good boom or bust lottery ticket in DFS.

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To be fair to Gase, if I had a GM who signed Le'Veon Bell and Adam Gase, I'd want to fire that GM too.

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We should have traded for Lee.

 

Prior to that in FA, we were reportedly the last team in fighting the Jets for Mosley. Gase only wanted to go to 13mil per year, they ended up at 17mil per year. Pleased we didn't match the deal he got there, but he'd have been a great pick up on a slightly lesser contract.

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Posted (edited)

McClay in Dallas to me comes off as a move visible version of Kyle Smith.   Because of their owner, there is an element of dysfunction that reigns in Dallas but McClay seems to have garnered so much respect behind the scenes that it seems like Jerry has been tamed some by him.  Love to see McClay out of Dallas -- I think that would weaken them big time.  Sadly, I think ditto if we ever let Kyle go.  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/20/colts-2019-offseason-chris-ballard-chris-long-retirement-patrick-peterson-suspension-mmqb?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb

3. That said, if Eagles VP Joe Douglas is willing to come, and I’m the Jets, I offer him the job tomorrow. And not only because he’s really good, but also because he’s so connected, and could, in time, build the kind of robust staff that Chris Ballard has in Indianapolis (well-regarded Philly scouting directors Ian Cunningham and Andy Weidl followed Douglas there from Baltimore). If it’s not Douglas? Four names that should be brought up in any GM search (in alphabetical order): Tennessee’s Ryan Cowden, Indy’s Ed Dodds, Dallas’s Will McClay and Minnesota’s George Paton. Three of the four have been in the mix for a bunch of jobs the last couple years and the fourth, Dodds (who used to be Seattle GM John Schneider’s secret weapon), might be the fastest rising star in the scouting world.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

McClay in Dallas to me comes off as a move visible version of Kyle Smith.   Because of their owner, there is an element of dysfunction that reigns in Dallas but McClay seems to have garnered so much respect behind the scenes that it seems like Jerry has been tamed some by him.  Love to see McClay out of Dallas -- I think that would weaken them big time.  Sadly, I think ditto if we ever let Kyle go.  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/20/colts-2019-offseason-chris-ballard-chris-long-retirement-patrick-peterson-suspension-mmqb?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb

3. That said, if Eagles VP Joe Douglas is willing to come, and I’m the Jets, I offer him the job tomorrow. And not only because he’s really good, but also because he’s so connected, and could, in time, build the kind of robust staff that Chris Ballard has in Indianapolis (well-regarded Philly scouting directors Ian Cunningham and Andy Weidl followed Douglas there from Baltimore). If it’s not Douglas? Four names that should be brought up in any GM search (in alphabetical order): Tennessee’s Ryan Cowden, Indy’s Ed Dodds, Dallas’s Will McClay and Minnesota’s George Paton. Three of the four have been in the mix for a bunch of jobs the last couple years and the fourth, Dodds (who used to be Seattle GM John Schneider’s secret weapon), might be the fastest rising star in the scouting world.

At least we know for sure that Dallas wont be able to keep him by naming him the GM. Jerry is not giving up that title, so we have a bit more of a chance to keep Kyle though I am of course still nervous with Allen around.

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On 5/16/2019 at 10:19 AM, hatchetwound said:

Maybe if Vinny wasn't so incompetent the owner wouldn't have to intervene.  You don't see this happening with Bruce.

 

You don't "see" him doing it. Doesn't mean he is not... 🙂  In fairness it is his team so he can get involved at whatever level he wants. Not for us to say.  It does appear there are less Dan hands on personnel decisions. But we don;t know either way for sure 

 

In fairness, there has been improvement over personnel decision - slowly, but surely. As long as that happens I honestly could care less who makes the decisions. I do wish they would establish a more traditional FO. But if they win a SB or even get close the way it is, you have to give them credit. 

 

We shall see. 

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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/20/colts-2019-offseason-chris-ballard-chris-long-retirement-patrick-peterson-suspension-mmqb?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb

3. That said, if Eagles VP Joe Douglas is willing to come, and I’m the Jets, I offer him the job tomorrow. And not only because he’s really good, but also because he’s so connected, and could, in time, build the kind of robust staff that Chris Ballard has in Indianapolis (well-regarded Philly scouting directors Ian Cunningham and Andy Weidl followed Douglas there from Baltimore). If it’s not Douglas? Four names that should be brought up in any GM search (in alphabetical order): Tennessee’s Ryan Cowden, Indy’s Ed Dodds, Dallas’s Will McClay and Minnesota’s George Paton. Three of the four have been in the mix for a bunch of jobs the last couple years and the fourth, Dodds (who used to be Seattle GM John Schneider’s secret weapon), might be the fastest rising star in the scouting world.

 

Is he that good?  Why haven't they made him GM then?  But if he is that good I'm all about getting division rivals talent out of the division!  Let there own stupidity cost them!

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5 hours ago, hatchetwound said:

 

Is he that good?  Why haven't they made him GM then?  But if he is that good I'm all about getting division rivals talent out of the division!  Let there own stupidity cost them!

Shhhh NY will hire him, the guy from Dallas and Kyle Smith in a few month after firing Gettleman.

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Another article ranking GMs -- the new bees weren't ranked.  So 28 out of 28.

 

 

https://www.rotoworld.com/article/goal-line-stand/nfls-best-gms-2019?sf213030458=1&page=2

NFL'S BEST GMS 2019

28. Bruce Allen, Redskins

 

There isn’t much that needs to be said about the Redskins’ front office. It’s self evident to anyone capable of cognitive reasoning. Since owner Daniel Snyder purchased the team in 1999, he and his various executives have produced two playoff wins, one of which came Snyder’s first year on the job with a roster he did not assemble. For the past decade, his right-hand man has been Bruce Allen. It’s a partnership that’s produced a .409 winning percentage. Three times in nine seasons have Allen and Snyder’s squads finished above .500. The high-water mark for victories was 2012’s 10. This year, the duo commandeered the Redskins’ draft room and lucked into Dwayne Haskins. Haskins will serve as a corrective to 2018’s looney tunes decision to give 34-year-old Alex Smith $71 million guaranteed. Entirely bereft of vision or patience, Allen and Snyder will almost certainly squander Haskins’ ability should he prove to be a star. That may sound harsh, but it is the only honest takeaway from the past two decades of Redskins football. Change will require … change. That’s something — whether it’s his team name or front office tactics — Snyder has proven anathema to.     

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Rotoworld stating the obvious.

 

When the goal is selling tickets and manufacturing hype instead of winning you might sell a lot of tickets and never win anything of note. For 20 years. Or longer.

 

But at least we have some false hope. Pretend that you don't know what is coming next.

 

It's like if I bought my wife a walmart purse and put it in a Coach bag for Christmas every year, eventually, probably quickly, she would know what was going to be in the bag.

 

Redskins fans experience groundhog day every year and still walk right into it like a goofy puppy dog. :chair:

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