The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

EDIT: forgot about 2nd part lol...agree completely. Sheehan has been on the belief that Snyder's #1 goal this offseason was to turn around the fanbase perceptions and interest more so than to "build for the future", and even said it might be a better way to go right now. 

 

 

 

I'll start with this point.  Yep he doesn't blame Dan for attacking this problem.   I'd say as a fan for almost 40 years now, I was a bit startled about this team actually being in jeopardy of being a relevant franchise.  Dan for his faults could do one thing well typically which is to bring attention to the franchise where they were at least talked about and had some national interest.  I never thought this team would be lumped in with the Titans on a national show for being examples of teams that no one nationally cares about -- where its yawn. 

 

19 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

First part....I think the positive media hype this offseason (or at least right now) is different than times in the past because the Skins had seemingly bottomed out in terms of negative press and pessimistic hot takes--and as you said, no Sunday night games or 4:00 pm starts is evidence of more than just negative hot takes are at play. Can you imagine, though, if Haskins wins the starting position and plays well all season...and the NFL never showcases him at all? lol...That flex schedule will get worked overtime if so.

 

 

 

I think their ride with the media has been up and down.  Granted Dan for a long time and in recent years Bruce typically gets beat up.  But otherwise they've been praises for drafts and off season moves aplenty.  For example, I wasn't a big fan of the Alex Smith trade but plenty in the media dug it.  I think though the fan disinterest though was a big problem of late -- TV rating sliding, stadium attendance issues, etc.  And agree that's different from time past.

 

I think for me is I don't think the causal fan disinterest was driven by negative press.  I think it was driven primarily by three things:

 

A.  Little hope at QB.

B. Lack of star power

C. Not having a sexy type executive at the top.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the last buzz this team has gotten pre Haskins was the Scot hire.  It's not so much about him and whether he deserved the buzz or not -- but the perception that we had one of the top at their game at the helm.  That's where I agree with you that they'd have been better served if Kyle was out there doing the talking. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

But I don't chalk it up to Haskins alone. If Foster were still facing charges and suspended indefinitely and Collins chose some other team and the rest of the draft was a mixed bag of potential and reaches, Haskins wouldn't move the needle too much on his own (again, at least for me). Sweat, Foster, Collins, Guice, Mclaurin...they all play a huge role in me actually caring about the Skins before preseason starts. But I will admit, having Haskins at the top of that list of players to be intrigued by does ramp up the interest quite a bit.

 

EDIT: forgot about 2nd part lol...agree completely. Sheehan has been on the belief that Snyder's #1 goal this offseason was to turn around the fanbase perceptions and interest more so than to "build for the future", and even said it might be a better way to go right now. 

 

 

 

To me its 95% Haskins.  And this is coming from a guy who has questions about Haskins and is far from 100% sold and absolutely love the rest of the draft especially Sweat.  I liked the Collins signing (by the way that one wasn't embraced completely by national media some of whom think they way overpaid him).  Foster is interesting because he's IMO a wildcard regardless of any legal troubles -- I love his upside but he needs to stay healthy and some in SF say he didn't play hot last year. 

 

I think you got to have a young QB who you think is franchise material or an actual franchise QB to sell hope.  If they went into this season with Keenum being the top Qb in the building -- I don't think Sweat would be selling them much season tickets.   

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To me its 95% Haskins.  And this is coming from a guy who has questions about Haskins and is far from 100% sold and absolutely love the rest of the draft especially Sweat.  I liked the Collins signing (by the way that one wasn't embraced completely by national media some of whom think they way overpaid him).  Foster is interesting because he's IMO a wildcard regardless of any legal troubles -- I love his upside but he needs to stay healthy and some in SF say he didn't play hot last year. 

 

I think you got to have a young QB who you think is franchise material or an actual franchise QB to sell hope.  If they went into this season with Keenum being the top Qb in the building -- I don't think Sweat would be selling them much season tickets.   

3

 

In the hype video I just watched, at the end of the video they show both the Haskins jersey and the Sweat jersey being hung up in their respective lockers...had me nodding and sporting a ****-eating grin lol...but I also imagined them only hanging one of those jerseys--would I have been as excited? I wasn't feeling it for just Sweat or Haskins. For me, having both those talents infused into the team at the same time is exciting and intriguing.

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

In the hype video I just watched, at the end of the video they show both the Haskins jersey and the Sweat jersey being hung up in their respective lockers...had me nodding and sporting a ****-eating grin lol...but I also imagined them only hanging one of those jerseys--would I have been as excited? I wasn't feeling it for just Sweat or Haskins. For me, having both those talents infused into the team at the same time is exciting and intriguing.

 

I get the point.  Personally am more hyped about Sweat.  Finlay though even joked that he's never seen less attention for a first rounder as for Sweat because Haskins is just consuming so much attention.

 

I am guessing the more causal fan is lured by a QB.  I've been watching national TV sports shows -- it's not a mixed amount of attention -- its Haskins, Haskins, Haskins.  I think they've been a little lucky on two fronts as for added attention:  1.  Murray has no personality.  So I don't think that helps him attract attention at the moment.  Haskins seems to be getting more.  2.  The Daniel Jones pick coupled with Haskins supposedly wanting to play for his boyhood favorite team but got spurned by them -- I think has added some juice to the story.  Heck I noticed even the NY post wrote an article about Haskins' training camp with a headline that I think purposely was done to agitate Giants fans. 

 

Yeah in camp I want to see Sweat along with Haskins and the others, too.  But i think the story by far is going to be Haskins.

[Thinking Skins]

I will say that I think Bruce should get some of the praise. And I know that I (along with @HardcoreZorn) have been one of the biggest Bruce defenders here. I've mellowed on that lately, but lets remember. Before the draft, Haskins was supposed to be a top 5 pick, often considered the best and the only legit QB in this draft class. 

 

(#6 to the GIants) https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2019/01/29/2019-nfl-mock-draft-7-rounds-dwayne-haskins-kyler-murray-nick-bosa-quinnen-williams/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001013277/article/bucky-brooks-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-pats-among-4-to-pick-qb

 

So as much as I am down on Bruce and Dan for the negative portrayal of themselves by the media and their role in it, I think they played their hand perfectly here. It helps that Haskins ran a slow 40 and that people were questioning his abilities for various reasons. Part of me wonders how much of this was put out by Bruce and the FO (kinda the same way I wonder how much the "enlarged heart" or the "fighting with philly FO" rumors were put out by us). I kinda think they may have been playing the sports media like a fiddle too - putting out rumors of Jay hating Haskins and wanting Jones, putting the Dan wanting Haskins stuff out making it seem like a fight (and maybe it was), making it seem like it was a reach taking him (who was projected to go top 5, and at least 6 as I showed above) in the top 10 if we traded up, and making us happy that we DIDN'T trade up because out FO is so inept? 

 

I'm not saying its genius but Dave Gettleman doesn't look too bright right now. 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I will say that I think Bruce should get some of the praise. And I know that I (along with @HardcoreZorn) have been one of the biggest Bruce defenders here. I've mellowed on that lately, but lets remember. Before the draft, Haskins was supposed to be a top 5 pick, often considered the best and the only legit QB in this draft class. 

 

(#6 to the GIants) https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2019/01/29/2019-nfl-mock-draft-7-rounds-dwayne-haskins-kyler-murray-nick-bosa-quinnen-williams/

Given, I'm a Bruce hater, but why would he get credit for nobody else taking Haskins first?  It was hardly great work on his part that Haskins fell to us. Other than at least he didn't trade up for him. Of course, Haskins will still have to end up being good.  If he is good, he fell to us and we're lucky. If he is not good, it was a bad pick. Either way Bruce still SUCKS!!!!!!!!  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I will say that I think Bruce should get some of the praise. And I know that I (along with @HardcoreZorn) have been one of the biggest Bruce defenders here. I've mellowed on that lately, but lets remember. Before the draft, Haskins was supposed to be a top 5 pick, often considered the best and the only legit QB in this draft class. 

 

(#6 to the GIants) https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2019/01/29/2019-nfl-mock-draft-7-rounds-dwayne-haskins-kyler-murray-nick-bosa-quinnen-williams/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001013277/article/bucky-brooks-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-pats-among-4-to-pick-qb

 

So as much as I am down on Bruce and Dan for the negative portrayal of themselves by the media and their role in it, I think they played their hand perfectly here. It helps that Haskins ran a slow 40 and that people were questioning his abilities for various reasons. Part of me wonders how much of this was put out by Bruce and the FO (kinda the same way I wonder how much the "enlarged heart" or the "fighting with philly FO" rumors were put out by us). I kinda think they may have been playing the sports media like a fiddle too - putting out rumors of Jay hating Haskins and wanting Jones, putting the Dan wanting Haskins stuff out making it seem like a fight (and maybe it was), making it seem like it was a reach taking him (who was projected to go top 5, and at least 6 as I showed above) in the top 10 if we traded up, and making us happy that we DIDN'T trade up because out FO is so inept? 

 

I'm not saying its genius but Dave Gettleman doesn't look too bright right now. 

 

I'll go on the record just for consistency.  If Dwayne Haskins ends up the real goods and this team in turn becomes a consistent winner -- i'd not only give big props to Dan and Bruce but I'd be big time thrilled to do it.

 

If Haskins is the goods you won't have to rationalize squat over here in terms of that move.  It likely would revolutionize this franchise.   QB IMO has been the bane position of this franchise.  We've had good everything on and off as for the post 1992 rosters except for developing a franchise QB who stayed to lead the team for years.  We've not had our own Phillip Rivers, Big Ben, Drew Brees, etc.  And i think that by a mile is the #1 problem personnel wise. 

 

I am just a bit worried about all the talk about the perception of who Haskins is like your point that early in the process some draft geeks thought he was a top 5 pick.  IMO that stuff is meaningless.  The year before Jake Locker was drafted he was considered a candidate to be the #1 pick in that draft.  He had a rocket arm and was mobile.  But so what?   Hype-mock draft types don''t mean squat as for the bottom line.  They've gotten a ton wrong at QB.   Heck this isn't a new rodeo to be on the hype train for QB.  Hopefully this time it works.   Maybe i am too cynical but as a dude who has been burned by the hype -- I've got to see it now to buy in. 😀  Most first round QBs get their share of hype.  And i enjoy it as much as anyone else but the hype far from always translates to results.   Hopefully it changes this time.  

 

 

That same article you posted had this point.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/13/dwayne-haskins-jay-gruden-washington-redskins-doug-baldwin-kam-chancellor-seahawks?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

Washington hasn’t really hit on a first-round quarterback since 1937, when the team picked Sammy Baugh. So no pressure, Dwayne Haskins.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2019/05/13/nfl-redskins-qb-dwayne-haskins-seems-plotting-right-course/1189238001/

Washington hasn’t won a Super Bowl since 1991, and the team has reached the playoffs only six times since. Stability at quarterback has proved even more scarce. In the last 27 seasons, 27 different quarterbacks have started games for the long-suffering franchise.

Team officials have tried everything. They’ve drafted high-profile passers (Haskins became Washington’s fifth taken in the first round since 1993). They’ve tried aging veterans and journeymen. But none have produced the long-term solution needed to transform the Redskins into a winning franchise.  Haskins, of course, knows the ever-optimistic fans – none bigger than team owner and Silver Spring, Maryland, native Daniel Snyder – hope he can at last end the suffering. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/05/01/get-excited-for-the-nfl-draft-by-reliving-the-redskins-heath-shuler-pick/?utm_term=.4720409dc5fc

Casserly didn’t put Shuler in the same class as Troy Aikman and Drew Bledsoe, who were drafted No. 1 overall in 1989 and 1992, respectively, but the Heisman runner-up was considered a can’t-miss prospect. Chris Mortensen sure thought so....We took the guy that everybody said, ‘This guy’s a can’t-miss,’ ” Casserly said. “Well, it didn’t work out. 

 

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2005-04-24-0504240071-story.html

Gibbs said team officials expected Campbell to be off the board before they picked at No. 25 and could not pass up the chance to take him when he was still available.

"He's very big, and he can see over everything," Gibbs said. "He ran 4.7-something. He's not particularly a runner, but he definitely gets out of the pocket and can make things happen."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/2002/04/21/redskins-draft-ramsey-in-1st/038b2175-8b8b-494d-9079-5357f4875bea/?utm_term=.c0a603dc0591

"We think he's got a chance to be a really fine young player," Spurrier said of Ramsey. "He's really smart. We'll bring him in and let him compete with the guys we have here. . . . We think he has a really strong arm. He can make all the throws."

 

Ramsey said by telephone from New Orleans: "I couldn't be happier. I went in the first round to the team I wanted to go to."

 

Ramsey had met with Redskins owner Daniel Snyder over dinner recently in New Orleans. Still, Ramsey said he had thought the Redskins no longer were interested in him until the team called just before selecting him.

...It was a hectic week for Ramsey, who was married eight days ago and finished his honeymoon trip to the Florida Keys on Thursday. He has spent the offseason working with trainer Mackie Shilstone in New Orleans and has dropped about 12 pounds, he said. NFL scouts like his arm strength but believe he must improve his footwork to succeed at this level.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/21/bill-polian-talks-up-robert-griffin-iii/

Polian said on Friday that people sometimes focus so much on Griffin’s pure speed that they forget how good he is at stopping on a dime and throwing deep when he’s forced out of the pocket.

“If he pulls up to throw the ball — and I would direct you to the Oklahoma film — all he has to do is stand up and flick that wrist and the ball will go across the field 55, 50 yards in the wink of an eye — on a rope and it’s accurate,” Polian said, via the Washington Post. “So he presents a threat that we really

haven’t seen before.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/tony-dungy-would-take-robert-griffin-iii-over-andrew-luck/2012/01/05/gIQAb71ZcP_blog.html?utm_term=.3b8ede58e6d7

Tony Dungy would take Robert Griffin over Luck

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82705854/article/beyond-luck-who-is-the-most-cantmiss-prospect-in-the-draft

RG3 will go second overall and could mirror Cam Newton

Robert Griffin III could have a Cam Newton-esque ascent. The overall skill set is phenomenal. I don't think the height will prove to be a real detriment, and this kid is going to go second overall for a reason. He is the real deal on and off the field, and whether it's Cleveland, Washington or someone else, a team will trade up to land him. He's going right after Andrew Luck. Period.

As teams learn more about him, they will become more attracted to him. The leadership traits will blow them away. There are just too many QB-hungry teams out there, and at a time with such a weak free-agent crop at that position, it's all there for this kid to make an immediate impression.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

RG3 will go second overall and could mirror Cam Newton

Robert Griffin III could have a Cam Newton-esque ascent. 

 

Gruden has now made the Haskins/Cam Newton comparison, more so based on the character and clearly not (yet) the player.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Gruden has now made the Haskins/Cam Newton comparison, more so based on the character and clearly not (yet) the player.

 

The irony of that is I was watching a bunch of Haskins interviews one morning over breakfast and my wife happened to be watching, too.  I was hunting for who Haskins reminded me of personality wise and my wife chimed in with Cam Newton.

 

Haskins comes off to me a little quieter than Newton but i see some similarities. 

[Conn]

Isn't the Campbell draft the one that we traded up into the late 1st before it even started? And then that quote says we thought Campbell would be gone? Who the F were we trading up early for if it wasn't to overdraft Campbell by a little bit because we were enamored with him lol. I always thought that was the story there. 

[Thinking Skins]

13 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Given, I'm a Bruce hater, but why would he get credit for nobody else taking Haskins first?  It was hardly great work on his part that Haskins fell to us. Other than at least he didn't trade up for him. Of course, Haskins will still have to end up being good.  If he is good, he fell to us and we're lucky. If he is not good, it was a bad pick. Either way Bruce still SUCKS!!!!!!!!  

 

So i don't think Bruce had any role in the Giants liking Jones over Haskins. What I do think is that the rumors made them think they couldn't wait to take Jones at 17, thus leaving another non qb on the board. So teams in 7 - 14 had one more non qb player to choose from. Add to that Oakland taking another player not projected to go top 5 and what we saw was that peoples draft boards probably changed as a result. 

 

I don't think it's a mind control thing, just that he played his cards well. 

[Anselmheifer]

On 5/13/2019 at 2:41 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The irony of that is I was watching a bunch of Haskins interviews one morning over breakfast and my wife happened to be watching, too.  I was hunting for who Haskins reminded me of personality wise and my wife chimed in with Cam Newton.

 

Haskins comes off to me a little quieter than Newton but i see some similarities. 

 

Dwayne doesn't remind me of Cam Newton at all. Cam Newton has that sociopath smile and comes off as a ****, IMHO. I don't think my opinion is that much of a stretch since Cam comments on things like how funny it is to get questions about football from a woman. Haskins is much more low key and exudes more of a quiet confidence and less of a narcissism than Newton. 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Dwayne doesn't remind me of Cam Newton at all. Cam Newton has that sociopath smile and comes off as a D**K, IMHO. I don't think my opinion is that much of a stretch since Cam comments on things like how funny it is to get questions about football from a woman. Haskins is much more low key and exudes more of a quiet confidence and less of a narcissism than Newton. 

 

Yeah that's part of the reason why I said he's quieter than Cam.  Cam though exudes confidence and will say things that reflect that.  Cam isn't naturally outspoken unless you bring the conversation to him typically.  If you watch Haskins' interviews that side of him does come out at times -- when an interviewer for example said you are really smart, he goes yes I am.  And there is a bunch of that.  None of that to me is bad -- you want a dude who believes in himself. 

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Isn't the Campbell draft the one that we traded up into the late 1st before it even started? And then that quote says we thought Campbell would be gone? Who the F were we trading up early for if it wasn't to overdraft Campbell by a little bit because we were enamored with him lol. I always thought that was the story there. 

That was the Carlos Rodgers draft.....two Auburn ehh picks.

 

When they announced Campbell I a certain I went pale. The needs were mostly defense. I don't think the trade was before the draft but early during it.?.?

 

Carlos was drafting position instead of BPA. (Demarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, Thomas Davis, Derrick Johnson) I fully expected the 2nd pick to be DE or LB and kinda thought they were targeting Marcus Spears who went like 5 picks ahead. If only Aaron Rodgers could have dropped one more slot......

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

So i don't think Bruce had any role in the Giants liking Jones over Haskins. What I do think is that the rumors made them think they couldn't wait to take Jones at 17, thus leaving another non qb on the board. So teams in 7 - 14 had one more non qb player to choose from. Add to that Oakland taking another player not projected to go top 5 and what we saw was that peoples draft boards probably changed as a result. 

 

I don't think it's a mind control thing, just that he played his cards well. 

 

There were rumors for weeks before the draft that multiple teams had Jones as their top QB in the draft aside from Murray.    I think what fooled the Giants more than anything wasn't the Redskins.  It was all the talk that Denver, Miami and Cincy might take a QB in the first.   They are going to sit through 4 teams picking QBs potentially and still get Jones at 17?  I think they would have doubts about that. 

 

The enlarged heart wasn't a rumor but an actual physical that Sweat took. Though specifically if I recall it was about a valve connected to his heart which didn't have a wide enough opening or something like that.     Early on draft day Rappoport had a report that some teams cleared him with their own physical if I recall that included the Texans.  And some did not.  Hoffman talked about this after he was taken where he heard that some teams still have doubts about Sweat but some were fine with him.

 

The rumor about Guice that you credit them for maybe being involved in -- most think it was Guice's ex-agent who wanted to exact revenge

 

As for the Jones-Haskins stuff.   The fact that the Giants liked Jones wasn't much of secret.  I recall actually a week before the draft showing that to my kids because there were multiple funny tweets about it back then which we got a laugh about it.  Multiple NY beat guys said the Giants didn't like Haskins, I recall posting that on the draft thread.  Then there were some reporters who said the Giants did like Haskins -- Tony Pauline liked to make that case.    So it was a bit all over the place about who the Giants liked.  Ditto the Redskins.  Giants reporters said later they learned they had Jones and Lock ranked almost the same but a slight nod to Jones. 

 

On the Redskins, Laconfora was shooting weeks before its Haskins, Haskins.  The local beat guys questioned that.  But then a day or two before the draft it turned to Haskins.  By the way I listened to Breer's take the other day on a radio segment and I'll just say this he didn't do much to throw cold water on the narratives from others about Haskins but I am not going to repeat it here since it leads to tangents that I don't care about.   

 

I think in theory they had a very nice draft.  So not trying to take any thunder away from that.  But am doubting they were using smoke and mirrors to make the draft board in multiple drafts fall their way.  but you never know. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

There were rumors for weeks before the draft that multiple teams had Jones as their top QB in the draft aside from Murray.    I think what fooled the Giants more than anything wasn't the Redskins.  It was all the talk that Denver, Miami and Cincy might take a QB in the first.   They are going to sit through 4 teams picking QBs potentially and still get Jones at 17?  I think they would have doubts about that.

1

 

Only thing, though, is that Gettleman said he knew 2 teams that definitely were gonna draft Jones, and Giants "sources" said he believed the Skins were one of them. So it comes across as if it did have to do with the Skins at least as much as any growing perception that Jones was moving up draft boards.

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Only thing, though, is that Gettleman said he knew 2 teams that definitely were gonna draft Jones, and Giants "sources" said he believed the Skins were one of them. So it comes across as if it did have to do with the Skins at least as much as any growing perception that Jones was moving up draft boards.

 

He did say that and people speculated it was the Skins and Denver.  But its not as if the billboards were out that the Redskins were taking Jones before the draft -- it was Haskins, Haskins, Haskins the day before the draft and day of.  Denver was rumored to death to love Drew Lock for months.  So my point is that was Gettleman doing his own spin to justify why they took him at 6 since he was given a hard time about it.  As Bruce implied how can Gettleman definitely know their draft board? 

 

There is no way to know what Gettleman truly thought.  My 2 cents on it is if you followed rumors in the draft for months -- Denver, Miami, Cincy, the Redskins, the Giants were all rumored to be potentially interested in taking a QB.  In Gettleman's shoes you'd speculate that the QB of your choice wouldn't fall to 17.  Him saying he knew for a fact is inherently BS unless Denver and the Redskins let him into their draft room.  

 

Most national pundits made fan of Gettleman's comments and disputed them as opposed to say he was correct and that he's trying to spin his pick in a clumsy way versus stick by it.  

 

It's possible that Gettleman psyched himself out with all the rumors -- Washington loving Haskins really means they like Daniel Jones, or Denver loving Lock really being them loving Jones.  You got me.  But if so that's Gettleman getting himself all twisted in knots.   In other words, just noise in general was making Gettleman nervous.  So yeah there was plenty of noise coming from the Redskins camp.   Either way if Gettleman was psyched out, then he's not the sharpest dude.  But if you take this at its most basic look -- if I am sitting at 17 I am doubting I am getting the Qb of my choice if all the rumors of Cincy, Miami, Denver, Wash were in the market. 

 

Edit:  thinking about it, the irony is most of the rumors close to the draft (very close to the draft) ended up true as to QB aside from Cincy.  Weeks before that the rumors were all over the place.  Very close to the draft the Redskins were linked heavy to Haskins -- I'll give Laconfora and Reddick for being earlier on it then most.  Before that it was all over the place.  Some till the end questioned that but most pointed to Haskins.  For the Giants ditto -- it was all over the place until closer to the end when they were linked heavily to Jones.  The Dolphins at the end were linked to Rosen but not so much in the beginning.  Denver supposedly loved Lock, with some questions though whether they'd take him though at their pick.  Cincy some thought would take a QB, with some noise pointed towards Haskins -- that never happened.

[Thinking Skins]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

some draft geeks thought he was a top 5 pick.  IMO that stuff is meaningless.  The year before Jake Locker was drafted he was considered a candidate to be the #1 pick in that draft.  He had a rocket arm and was mobile.  But so what?   Hype-mock draft types don''t mean squat as for the bottom line.  They've gotten a ton wrong at QB.   Heck this

Everything you say here is right, but that doesn't make the scouts and projections wrong. Pre draft is pre draft. Sure if we could redo the drafts things would go differently, but we're not working with perfect information. So in light of that, getting a guy who a lot of analysts had going at 6, or at least before 15 is considered good quality. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Everything you say here is right, but that doesn't make the scouts and projections wrong. Pre draft is pre draft. Sure if we could redo the drafts things would go differently, but we're not working with perfect information. So in light of that, getting a guy who a lot of analysts had going at 6, or at least before 15 is considered good quality. 

 

I get the point.  And to each their own on that.  While I agree it's cool when Kiper, McShay, Brugler whomever liked what the team did -- they all have major warts in whom they liked in the past and they've gotten a lot wrong.  As everyone does.  And that goes quadruple for QB.   

 

Almost every top half of the draft QB that has been taken has gotten buzz and almost always gets thumbs up from the draft geeks with some exceptions.  It hasn't amounted to squat though as for reality.  

 

Haskins has his critics among draft geeks, too.  That doesn't matter either.  Now for me it's about the real movie as opposed to the preview hype.  I know you feel the same but my point is the previews amount to nothing.   The preview hype to me adds to the off season fun so not trying to spoil anyone's excitement.  I am excited to see what happens with Haskins, too.  But my point is how the draft geeks positioned him doesn't really mean much to me considering I recall very well how many times they've gotten things wrong especially at QB.  I think if we were talking about an O lineman or a RB I'd take it much more seriously.  But QB has been such a wild crap shoot and so many get it wrong. 

 

And like I said maybe I am too cynical because I've fallen for EVERY hyped young QB we got.    I can be cynical in the past about the older veterans.  But as for the younger QBs I've had all of their backs and stuck with them longer than most.  I recall most of the hype rhyme and verse and I repeated it to death.  Heck if Bill Polian, the same dude, who picked Peyton Manning said RG3 is can't miss -- how can you challenge that?  Heck even the Cowboys scouts were quoted saying that Shuler is the next Aikman.  Jason Campbell was less hyped than some of the others but we had plenty with him, too.  Super nice guy.  Smart.  Has a rocket arm.  Durable-big dude and wow for a guy that big he can move, too. 

 

I'll quote these articles again because it brings my point home better than anything I can explain.   This isn't the first rodeo where most draft geeks finally think the Redskins got the QB of the future in the draft.  The issue before wasn't perception at whether we got QB right.  For the most part perception wise the draft geeks were on board with all of the picks.  Maybe with the exception of Campbell who was seen by some as a reach but plenty got behind it soon after and touted his tools.  

 

If they get this one right IMO.   We won't be debating that's cool but no biggie what else do they got?  This to me is the likely equivalent of Luke blowing up the Death Star, it would likely end this team's decades plus run of being a mediocre to bad team.  And I am not saying Haskins doesn't end the QB issues.  I got no idea.  I am obviously hoping he does in a big way. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/13/dwayne-haskins-jay-gruden-washington-redskins-doug-baldwin-kam-chancellor-seahawks

Washington hasn’t really hit on a first-round quarterback since 1937, when the team picked Sammy Baugh. So no pressure, Dwayne Haskins.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2019/05/13/nfl-redskins-qb-dwayne-haskins-seems-plotting-right-course/1189238001/

Team officials have tried everything. They’ve drafted high-profile passers (Haskins became Washington’s fifth taken in the first round since 1993). They’ve tried aging veterans and journeymen. But none have produced the long-term solution needed to transform the Redskins into a winning franchise.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

For the love of God, promote Kyle Smith asap or put out a press release saying he moved to Antartica!!! lol....

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

For the love of God, promote Kyle Smith asap or put out a press release saying he moved to Antartica!!! lol....

 

If they did that, besides it being the right thing to do -- in one fell swoop it would kill almost every ounce of tension on this thread.    All would be good, assuming he'd be left alone to do his job post promotion.  Listening to both Jay and Bruce in recent interviews they both touted Kyle's board.  That was a bit of a departure for Bruce because I noticed he often likes to mention Doug front and center. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If they did that, besides it being the right thing to do -- in one fell swoop it would kill almost every once of tension on this thread.    All would be good, assuming he'd be left alone to do his job post promotion.  Listening to both Jay and Bruce in recent interviews they both touted Kyle's board.  That was a bit of a departure for Bruce because I noticed he often likes to mention Doug front and center. 

 

I don't wanna even think about what the opposite would do to this thread lol...imagine finding out Kyle Smith was hired by the Jets to be their GM...(shudder)

 

I read a tweet about someone from the Eagles' FO being sought for the Jets GM position.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

I read a tweet about someone from the Eagles' FO being sought for the Jets GM position.

 

 

 

Yeah the Eagles FO tends to get mentions of multiple guys in their FO being studs at personnel in some of those national FO articles that pop up from time to time. 

 

The problem with that story popping out about Gase is potential tension with Le'Veon Bell now relating to that story.  That's why IMO the HC always has to rally around whomever was signed or drafted, etc -- you can't have a narrative that runs against one of your players.  I'd gather Maccagnan knows that hence I bet he was the leak about Bell.

 

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah the Eagles FO tends to get mentions of multiple guys in their FO being studs at personnel in some of those national FO articles that pop up from time to time. 

 

The problem with that story popping out about Gase is potential tension with Le'Veon Bell now relating to that story.  That's why IMO the HC always has to rally around whomever was signed or drafted, etc -- you can't have a narrative that runs against one of your players.  I'd gather Maccagnan knows that hence I bet he was the leak about Bell.

 

 

 

 

 

OMFG lol....and yeah, wouldn't be surprised if Maccagnan leaked this **** on his way out.

 

Also, nice to see there's another GM (well, ex-GM) with a name as convoluted as McCloughan's lol...

[NewCliche21]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If they did that, besides it being the right thing to do -- in one fell swoop it would kill almost every ounce of tension on this thread.    All would be good, assuming he'd be left alone to do his job post promotion.  Listening to both Jay and Bruce in recent interviews they both touted Kyle's board.  That was a bit of a departure for Bruce because I noticed he often likes to mention Doug front and center. 

 

You're not even joking.  The amount of goodwill, if it were a REAL move, would be a reset for disillusioned-but-still-passionate fans like me.  Legitimately put Kyle in charge, Bruce STFU, and Doug stop eating potatoes, and we'll be reset.  Pile that on with a good draft and some classy moves by the FO, and I'd actually be optimistic.  Did I spell that right?  I haven't written it for so long.

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

You're not even joking.  The amount of goodwill, if it were a REAL move, would be a reset for disillusioned-but-still-passionate fans like me.  Legitimately put Kyle in charge, Bruce STFU, and Doug stop eating potatoes, and we'll be reset.  Pile that on with a good draft and some classy moves by the FO, and I'd actually be optimistic.  Did I spell that right?  I haven't written it for so long.

 

The PR hit that Dan would get from it would be insane IMO.  To me it's plain as day.  It's amazing to me it escapes him.  This more than anything makes me question about Dan being this marketing "genius" according to some.    Either that or he truly indeed does get it but Bruce is such a good shield for him that he wouldn't give that up for a PR boost.   But if he made that move, he'd get the benefit of the doubt from the press most of the time and win over at least a portion of the fans who are on the verge of checking out.

 

Does Dan think it was some random wild coincidence that the last major PR hit he got (aside from the Haskins pick) was the Scot hire?