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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread


Makaveli

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12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think that is my biggest worry with both Allen and Gruden. Kind of reminds me of Witman and Boudreau respectively for the Wiz and Cavs. Both teams were perpetually stinky and they got their to rise up to the level of competitive first round playoff outs. Eventually, both teams realized this was not good enough. Mind you, neither has really done any better with their replacements, but I think those team plateaued. I think Allen's cheapness and conservatism creates a low ceiling.

 

Even in his "great" draft of 2017, you see a lot of good players, but no superstar or "wow" player. This team is pretty much devoid of great players. It's nice that we finally have a number of good players. In fact, we have enough good players to compete. We don't have the "wow" players needed to dominate. I think you have to judge Allen on that too. Does he go for the safe bet too often... eschewing potential greatness for solid.

I don't think its even a question of plateaued, to me that is obvious. while it could be a question of "par over birdie" with allen I think its more of selecting what is obvious to any "pro" talent evaluator. I genuinely do not have any confidence that this FO can even see the possibilities of a lightening in a bottle situation.

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2 minutes ago, onedrop said:

 I genuinely do not have any confidence that this FO can even see the possibilities of a lightening in a bottle situation.

 

Hell they couldn't even see that RG3 was done for 2-3 years and that Cousins was worth resigning before or at least after 2015 when even alot of fans saw that he actually played the game like a very good NFL QB. Also they came to these moronic conclusions despite their chosen coaches telling them otherwise, oh and their "Full control GM" as well. 

 

Morons isn't even a strong enough description. I need to find a new one. Buffoons, Morons, Idiots, doesn't quite cover it.   

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On 1/17/2018 at 3:33 PM, Boss_Hogg said:

This is sad, our team is perpetually awful and sadly I don't see an end in sight. The Browns will win a playoff game before we do. 

 

Book it

 

We've already won one before them.

 

The Redskins won a playoff  game in 2006.

 

The Browns haven't won one sine 1995.

 

So :P  ;) 

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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Even in his "great" draft of 2017, you see a lot of good players, but no superstar or "wow" player. This team is pretty much devoid of great players. It's nice that we finally have a number of good players. In fact, we have enough good players to compete. We don't have the "wow" players needed to dominate. I think you have to judge Allen on that too. Does he go for the safe bet too often... eschewing potential greatness for solid.

 

I think Johnathan Allen can  be a "wow" player.

 

He was considered one of, if not, the top defensive player in the draft in 2017.

 

He was playing some great football before he got hurt, and he was just a rookie.

 

Only time will tell, but I believe Allen can "wow' us. :) 

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http://www.espn.com/blog/philadelphia-eagles/post/_/id/23896/eagles-secret-weapon-an-anaytics-fueled-attack

 

Read this article, and then be jealous of this kind of top-down singular vision in an organization, from the owner, through the FO, into the coaching staff. Alinh with the type of time management/strategic assistants on the other end of a phone on the sideline that many have been saying Jay has needed for years. 

 

Not having an organization that operates in sync like this ****ing hurts, man. I think a large percentage of the fan base realizes how important it is and how "easy" it would be, on an organizational chart level at least, to implement. Given the money and a thorough interview/hiring process and any number of consultants it would not be difficult for your average fan to do a better job than Dan Snyder at filling out an organizational structure that is both traditional in construction and forward-thinking in scope. There is no salary cap in place to limit this aspect of team building, and the principles aren't difficult to understand. 

 

In conclusion, Jay may be underwhelming and Bruce might be among the worst head executives in the league--but it all starts with Snyder being unwilling to invest his money, influence, and power where it counts the most.

 

I do not care if we stumble into a .500 or better playoff season every few years. Or if we re-sign Kirk. Or have good offseasons. I will not buy in and believe long-term the way you see Jaguars fans doing. Not until they give me a normally structured FO, with their own analytics and scouting hires. A FO that hires their own HC, who hires his own coaching staff, based on merit and a thorough, wide-reaching interview process. An organization with a singular mission statement and goal, from top to bottom. A structure that can handle change because it's the machine that matters, not the talented cogs making up the machine. 

 

I really can't be bothered to get into the team as deeply as I have in the past until this happens. Can't invest myself, emotionally, until it happens. So if I follow this line of thought to its rational conclusion--don't I have to settle into the realization that the only way this happens is if Jay and Bruce crash and burn badly? Don't I have to almost hope we lose out on re-signing Kirk, or be stuck with the status quo for the foreseeable future? Hard to argue otherwise--this organization in its current state is such trash that I'm actually considering hoping it hits rock bottom before the next season even begins. 

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1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Hell they couldn't even see that RG3 was done for 2-3 years and that Cousins was worth resigning before or at least after 2015 when even alot of fans saw that he actually played the game like a very good NFL QB. Also they came to these moronic conclusions despite their chosen coaches telling them otherwise, oh and their "Full control GM" as well. 

 

Morons isn't even a strong enough description. I need to find a new one. Buffoons, Morons, Idiots, doesn't quite cover it.   

while not a moniker per se the best description I could find is "tactical stupidity"

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22 hours ago, Burgold said:

Given all of this, if I were to judge Allen excluding Cousins, I'd probably give him a C+ and maybe even a B- (looking only at 2017 when he had soul control). Including Cousins, that grad falls down to a flat D. Over his nine year tenure, I think a D might be a generous grade.

 

I think it's an easy F. 

 

Over the short term, you can blame bad luck or the situation you inherited.  Over an eight year period, when you are the one with final control, you have to take responsibility for the team's record.  If the coaching was bad -- you picked the coaches.  If the players were bad -- you picked most of the players. If the training, conditioning, field, etc caused injuries -- you had the responsibility to make sure those were right.

 

Here are Allen's our win totals, in order, for each year:

6

5

10 *with a gimmick offense that crippled (pun intended) our team for years to come by wasting four high draft picks on a college QB.

3

4

9  *with an elite QB who Allen didn't draft or sign in FA

8.5 *same

7 *same

 

 

 

So the question is: How much credit does Allen get for going .500 in the Cousins Era?

 

My answers is: He gets zero credit for drafting Cousins.  He gets full credit for keeping Cousins, even though that was a no-brainer.  He also gets the blame for not locking up Cousins cheap, and for losing Cousins in the way we are about to lose him, which is going to be a national embarrassment to the Redskins.

 

 

 

The next question is: How many games would the Redskins have won in 2015, 2016, 2017 without the impossible luck of Cousins just sitting around to plug in at QB?

 

2015: We would have started RG3, who would have been terrible and then got injured.  Then Colt would started and been bad also, and likely got hurt also.  The 3rd string QB would have started several games.  Win total somewhere between 3 and 5

 

2016: We would have just missed out on drafting Goff or Wentz and had to go with a bad free agent QB. Even if we were lucky enough to draft in the top two, neither of those guys would have put up great numbers in their rookie season with the supporting cast of the 2016 Redskins.  On the plus side, we would have had about $15M more in cap space to spend on non-QBs.  I'll be generous and say 5 wins.

 

2017: I don't know who the QB would have been or how much of the $24M Cousins cap hit would have been available for other positions, but it is hard to see how any possible Redskins QB could have won with the injury situation we suffered.  I'll be generous again and say 6 wins.

 

 

My conclusion: Bruce Allen is a loser, and once he loses Cousins, the Redskins will be losers again too.

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2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

I think it's an easy F. 

I'll stick with a C+. It wouldn't be hard to talk me down to a C or C- though.

 

I think you're looking at this entirely through a Cousins-centric lens. Was Trent Williams a bad Allen draft pick? Were Garcon and Jackson bad free agent pick ups? There were a number of nice gets, though I agree to few, through his era. Allen really only had two solo drafts and both of those turned out pretty well. The Trent Murphy draft and the Jonathon Allen draft. I'd even say that the overall talent and depth on the roster today is pretty good (if we bring back the injured). Today's Redskins field at least an overall C/C+ roster and maybe even a C+/B- roster.

 

Still, I weigh the win/loss record heavily and Shanny/Allen by and large sucked except for the RGIII mirage :(

Gruden/Allen looks like it might be maxing out at 9 wins which is better, but mediocre.

 

Again, if you add Cousins to the mix I'm fine with you dropping everything a letter grade. He blew that horribly in terms of negotiating, in terms of souring the relationship, and in terms of judging leverage. I personally think Cousins had a big role to play in this failure too (I'd probably weigh the fault somewhere between 60-70% Allen's), but the notion that Cousins has been disrespected is overplayed and a bit absurd. That's soap opera crap. Unfortunately, I think Cousins buys into it which makes it soap opera crap that's real.

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If they had offered him the Carr or Stafford deal then you'd have a point but they didn't which means that Snyder and Allen are still both Class A Morons.

 

Solid F for me.

 

I also don't buy that an OT that fit perfectly in Shanahans offense had anything to do with Allen's input. Let's get real.

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43 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yeah, you can't give a pass for the most important position on the team.  I also don't see how Cousins gets any blame for not being signed, that's the FO's job.

Wrong thread. We've discussed beyond nauseum why both parties share blame. Cousins unwillingness to negotiate last year, etc. Regardless, this isn't a Cousin's thread. If you can only talk about Cousins, only think about Cousins, etc. Then your thoughts probably belong in the Cousins' thread.

 

Besides, there are plenty of reasons to legitimately criticize and eviscerate Allen outside of Cousins. It really isn't all that hard. For example, his failure to find a nose tackle in free agency or the draft on a team that for ten years has wanted to be a 3-4 based defense is a pretty big screw up. His negligence of the defensive line in the draft for so long is another. His drafting of four edge rushing linebackers who are all high motor/nonspeed guy clones is kind of a problem too. Anderson, Murphy, and Smith are all the same player with the same weaknesses and all were picked in the second. That pretty much means that several of your second rounders are either backups or have no shot to play.

58 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

I also don't buy that an OT that fit perfectly in Shanahans offense had anything to do with Allen's input. Let's get real.

You either blame Allen for the Shanny years or you don't. Can't have it both ways. If you do blame him (and there's a lot to blame him for) you got to give him credit for the good stuff too.

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There's no metric by which Allen and Snyder are competent.

 

There also doesn't seem to be a plan. Other teams like the Eagles and Browns (LOL) have tried embracing new analytics, player measurements, biotech etc. You can argue that the results haven't been great but they at least seem to have a direction.

 

What is the direction of the Rs other than straight to the bottom of the NFC East. 

 

All of these decisions from Cousins to coaches and OTs would be easier to swallow if it felt like there was some thought put into that instead of just how to squeeze more money out of the fanbase.

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In a conversation evaluating Bruce's role as GM, you cannot exclude the handling of Cousins.  That conversation absolutely belongs here.

 

Yes, Bruce has F'd up many things that I as well as many other have discussed ad nauseum. 

 

That's kind of the point of why we think you're borderline nuts for grading him a C.

 

Grading him up against the Vinny curve is the only way I can see that as a rational grade.

 

Under Bruce, we're not making Albert Haynesworth deals, we have a better draft strategy overall, but there is still a lot to be desired.  A lot.

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3 hours ago, Burgold said:

Was Trent Williams a bad Allen draft pick? Were Garcon and Jackson bad free agent pick ups?

 

Ok, congrats on getting a pro bowler with the 4th overall pick.  Better than the time you spent four picks on the 2th overall pick and he turned out to be a bust.

 

Also congrats on hitting on two high priced free agents... and you're a moron for structuring it so both contracts end in the same year and we're left with nothing at WR.

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1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

 

Ok, congrats on getting a pro bowler with the 4th overall pick.  Better than the time you spent four picks on the 2th overall pick and he turned out to be a bust.

 

Also congrats on hitting on two high priced free agents... and you're a moron for structuring it so both contracts end in the same year and we're left with nothing at WR.

 

Nevermind the fact that Trent kinda has to he credited to Shanahan. Garcon as well. And lots of other pre-Gruden "hits". Allen wasn't running that show. 

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2 hours ago, c slag said:

I am afraid we are stuck with Bruce Allen at least until the new stadium deal gets done 

 

Fear the little angry man if we were to lose Cousins... (Which will happen in like 95% of the cases)

The little man could remove Team President duties to Bruce and make him a special advisor or whatever dedicated to the stadium.

 

And then name Charlie Brown as team President and Bob Marley as GM.

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8 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Fear the little angry man if we were to lose Cousins... (Which will happen in like 95% of the cases)

The little man could remove Team President duties to Bruce and make him a special advisor or whatever dedicated to the stadium.

 

And then name Charlie Brown as team President and Bob Marley as GM.

what about Marci... she is a former player.... 

 

Marci Redskins.jpg

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Jerry Jones (1989)   - 4 NFCCG Appearances, 3 Super Bowl Appearances, 3 Super Bowls

Jeff Lurie (1994)       - 6 NFCCG Appearances, 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 0 Super Bowls

John Mara* (2005)    - 2 NFCCG Appearances, 2 Super Bowl Appearances, 2 Super Bowls

Dan Snyder (1999)    - 0 NFCCG Appearances, 0 Super Bowl Appearances, 0 Super Bowls

 

*Not including the run the Giants made when they played the Ravens in the Super Bowl.

 

Howie Roseman has the Eagles playing for a Super Bowl soon after Chip dismantled that team. Meanwhile Snyder and Allen are spinning their wheels. Is there any hope for this team?
 

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On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 1:31 AM, Wildbunny said:

Fear the little angry man if we were to lose Cousins... (Which will happen in like 95% of the cases)

The little man could remove Team President duties to Bruce and make him a special advisor or whatever dedicated to the stadium.

 

And then name Charlie Brown as team President and Bob Marley as GM.

 

 For a minute there I was gonna say we don't need any more ex-Redskin players on staff, until I realized you were referring to the 'other' Charlie Brown.

 

 The hell with demoting Allen, just get rid of him period!  The guy is a cancer to this team. 

The fact that Cousins isn't already signed should be telling enough; he and the FO should have a clue by now that Cousins is the only thing this team has, and the chance that he may go to another team is very real, so he's probably banking on the idea that he will be going elsewhere just so he can smile and tell everyone later than he did everything he could, which is BS.

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9 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 For a minute there I was gonna say we don't need any more ex-Redskin players on staff, until I realized you were referring to the 'other' Charlie Brown.

 

 The hell with demoting Allen, just get rid of him period!  The guy is a cancer to this team. 

The fact that Cousins isn't already signed should be telling enough; he and the FO should have a clue by now that Cousins is the only thing this team has, and the chance that he may go to another team is very real, so he's probably banking on the idea that he will be going elsewhere just so he can smile and tell everyone later than he did everything he could, which is BS.

I think he was referring to the former Redskin.. i just took it in a different direction.  

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Quote

 

Bruce Allen isn’t going anywhere.

 

But owner Dan Snyder desperately needs Allen to negotiate a stadium deal in coming years. Allen might save Snyder hundreds of millions of dollars on a new venue that will cost at least $2 billion to build and is expected to open by 2027.

 

That alone makes Allen invaluable to Snyder.

 

Allen is a gregarious deal-maker who’s comfortable with Virginia legislators. His brother George was governor from 1994-98, and Bruce can work a room like a true politician with jokes and handshakes. Snyder is the opposite, an introvert who prefers balance sheets to bargaining.

 

 

So to recap:

 

New tax-payer funded stadium > building a winning football team

 

Dan wants to win right?

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