Renegade7 Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 12 hours ago, Burgold said: It's possible that this front office will pull off three good drafts in a row. However, we need to see that on the field. Good drafts combined with endless 7-9 seasons isn't good enough. I came in here to comment on this cycle we are seeing. I hate Allen far less this time of year then I do by season end, almost forget I want him gone. This is a playoff team if Haskins starts, not case or colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aszumilo Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: I came in here to comment on this cycle we are seeing. I hate Allen far less this time of year then I do by season end, almost forget I want him gone. This is a playoff team if Haskins starts, not case or colt. No matter how good the draft was, it does not absolve him of the sins of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 minute ago, aszumilo said: No matter how good the draft was, it does not absolve him of the sins of the past. Yes, he is the new Ernie Grunsfeld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aszumilo Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: Yes, he is the new Ernie Grunsfeld. Unfortunately, for us, that is an apt comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Yes, he is the new Ernie Grunsfeld. Thats a bigger reach than taking Daniel Jones with the 6 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Just now, TryTheBeal! said: Thats a bigger reach than taking Daniel Jones with the 6 pick. Is he not immortal at this point needing straight sorcery to rid ourselves of him because he has the owner under some form of hypnosis like Jafar from Aladdin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 45 minutes ago, aszumilo said: No matter how good the draft was, it does not absolve him of the sins of the past. Except he hasn't had any real sins in terms of drafting, has he? Shanahan ran the team and draft when Allen started here. Allen is clean on all Shanahan's idiocy, right? So 2014 was his first year presumably running that and that was the Murphy, Moses, Long, Breeland, Grant draft. That's damn solid. All of them are starting pros. The 2015 draft was McCloughan, with Scherff, Crowder and Smith who are starting NFL players. The 2016 draft was McCloughan, and that's the Doctson draft, which kind of sucked. Fuller is a stud and Ioannidis is our best player from it. So, Allen then took back over in 2017, 2018 and 2019 where he's run the table on clean, professional, responsible drafts, right? You can't argue that can you? So, what are Allen's sins, precisely, from a personnel standpoint in your eyes? For me, I HATE the effort to maximize supplemental picks. But that's a Bruce strategy as much as I hate it I can forgive him as a lot of teams are doing that. Not resigning Cousins seems fairly genius right? I mean, Cousins leaves here, goes to the odds on Super Bowl favorite and does what exactly? Right. Oh, and we have Keenum, Smith, Colt AND Haskins at a lower cap hit than Cousins. Or right around that. Pretty slick dude. Cousins isn't worth that hit. Few are. I know some blame him there for sure, but that's one of his biggest smart moves don't you agree? One of the greatest tributes to just how good Allen has been is the Round 4 thread where Love was taken and a fan who knows better bitterly complained because three players he liked better were available. Turns out we got two of them he specifically mentioned and the third has a bad knee. Trust me, Allen's smarter than us. He's even proved it. You'd be wise to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aszumilo Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Art said: Except he hasn't had any real sins in terms of drafting, has he? Shanahan ran the team and draft when Allen started here. Allen is clean on all Shanahan's idiocy, right? So 2014 was his first year presumably running that and that was the Murphy, Moses, Long, Breeland, Grant draft. That's damn solid. All of them are starting pros. The 2015 draft was McCloughan, with Scherff, Crowder and Smith who are starting NFL players. The 2016 draft was McCloughan, and that's the Doctson draft, which kind of sucked. Fuller is a stud and Ioannidis is our best player from it. So, Allen then took back over in 2017, 2018 and 2019 where he's run the table on clean, professional, responsible drafts, right? You can't argue that can you? So, what are Allen's sins, precisely, from a personnel standpoint in your eyes? For me, I HATE the effort to maximize supplemental picks. But that's a Bruce strategy as much as I hate it I can forgive him as a lot of teams are doing that. Not resigning Cousins seems fairly genius right? I mean, Cousins leaves here, goes to the odds on Super Bowl favorite and does what exactly? Right. Oh, and we have Keenum, Smith, Colt AND Haskins at a lower cap hit than Cousins. Or right around that. Pretty slick dude. Cousins isn't worth that hit. Few are. I know some blame him there for sure, but that's one of his biggest smart moves don't you agree? Calm down Bruce. Wasn't talking his "drafts", but more so his complete body of work since he has been here. I am sure everyone here is familiar with him, so, I don't need to recap, do I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 22 hours ago, Thinking Skins said: I probably shouldn't post this here since everybody is going to bed, but i have a theory on Dan Snyder. So everybody in the fan base was not caring about the team. Most of us didn't care about the draft one but. I was of the opinion that I didn't want a QB, but if we got one I wanted Haskins. But the media was saying that Dan wanted Haskins to excite the fan base. So we fast forward to Monday and suddenly a story "leaks" out saying that Snyder is going to trade up, that Dan's taking over the draft room, etc. And many of us fans were like, yeah that's the Skins, and we were at best just hoping it wasn't true, but none of us could have any confidence because at know this team and Dan's past. So Thursday comes and we don't trade up and that's enough to bring some life into the fan base because we got "our guy". But the discussion is mostly about us not being stupid instead of how good our bad he is. And Galdi said earlier that this move isn't going to excite the base alone, but it already has. I know myself and my family has gone from not caring to watching the draft with excitement. Others were saying they were going to go to more games this year. This may be an act of genius by Dan The weird thing for me as to Dan is for a long time I just saw him as a dude who is a fan like us who watches a lot of football and has opinions like we do but his instincts weren't hot. And he should simply just stay out of the way and let the professionals run the show. Heck I got opinions on a lot of players. But I wouldn't want myself or anyone here running a football team. The time I met Scot McCloughan I said look I want whatever you want. I am just a fan i know squat. You are the professional. And I meant every word. But with an operation like we have, we don't know who is making what move. And the fact that we are even debating what faction if any won on Haskins -- is the problem in itself. I follow a lot of teams and there isn't much of debate about which faction in the building won on this or that. Or hey the dude who is in charge is telling us he doesn't really make the decisions yet he has the power. And do we know if the owner is secretly pushing Bruce or not or whatever narrative. It's their own rhetoric about the FO coupled with the ambiguous structure they have that IMO has a lot to do with the cynicism from some about the process. My point is any theory on all of this is just a guess. Maybe Dan isn't involved at all. Maybe Doug really is the decision maker like Bruce claims. Or whatever narrative they are trying to sell. We don't know. But if they cleared up the confusion IMO they can win over a lot of jaded fans. And for those who blame fans for feeling jaded -- I think that's arrogant because we are all entitled to feel whichever way we want. We could be homers. We could be jaded or somewhere in between. As for who is the better fan in that regard -- that's up to interpretation. Dan some say in recent years has stopped interfering with an occasional exception. The exception often related to the QB position which seems to be his soft spot. I actually buy that and pushed the idea that he's unlikely interfering in recent years and even took some arrows on this thread from critics who I typically agree with who disagree with me on this. But again I have no way to know. I am just trusting beat reporters and my gut on it. Though I always suspect Dan is interfering on the QB position at least to some agree. That's gut too. However, the one thing I thought Dan was good at was making the team relevant nationally. They might not win but heck they get talked about, there is at least some jazz to the music-- and they are part of the action so to speak. That's pretty much has gone dead in recent years. I never thought I'd see the Redskins actually mocked on TV shows for being a team that no one nationally gives a rats behind about -- with multiple national football reporters suggesting either loudly or more subtly that they are boring and irrelevant, etc. Heck we haven't received a Sunday Night game now two years in a row. We only have one prime time game allotted above the minimum. Every other game is a 1 pm game. We've become the old school Browns as for national interest. Ticket sales are down. TV ratings are down. And I don't blame Dan for trying to bail himself out of it. Haskins was arguably the 2nd most talked about player in this draft. He's a big name. The more casual fans IMO in particular need a lifeline and some hope and it's tough to do that with JAGs at QB. You got me if Haskins is the goods. I've gone from being a fan of his months ago to being a critic recently and now i am agnostic and just want to see it play out. But thinking about it from the perspective of juicing up some excitement with casual fans, I don't think Dan had much choice. And maybe that didn't drive the decision and the excitement element of the move is purely incidental. That's cool. But either way it should help. ESPN showed this morning that the Redskins were tied for first for spike in ticket sales since the draft. So it looks like it did some good. As for all the other stuff discussed here. I am sticking to Bruce is so so at his job. They've been good at college personnel IMO for years and bad at pro personnel IMO for years. I've always said if they get it together and have a really good season I'll be happy to pat whomever on the back even Bruce. But I don't think the dude has the imagination and expertise to put together a macro plan to make this team consistently successful. And count me among the many fans who doesn't like having a Team President who is considered a punchline around the league for incompetence whether it's deserved or not. I think he could survive the arrows better and get better press if he was likable but IMO he isn't. We can do better IMO. The really weird thing to me about Dan is this: for a dude who prides himself on being a marketing guru he misses the most obvious way to gain some trust with fans and that is put a real personnel guy in charge of personnel. It was no accident that the team got a lot of good press for running things the right way when Scot was in charge whether it was deserved or not. They got the benefit of the doubt then and now they don't. The Browns moved from being considered to be a joke to being taken seriously when they hired Dorsey. Dan can transform the image of this team in 2 seconds if he chose to do so and that is hire Kyle Smith to actually run the team. If you put a dude in charge who is both likable and has a big rep for competence -- then the good vibes will flow. It's that simple to me. And until Dan realizes it he IMO will be jumping through hoops unless they finally actually win. That's just my 2 cents. I know some here likely agree with me. And I know some here don't. And I've thought about it enough that I've realized debating this is a waste of time for me. I can't be swayed unless one of two things happen: put Kyle Smith or someone in charge of personnel with a good rep for being a good personnel guy or just win. I don't mind Bruce being in that building as long as he's not in charge of personnel. But that's my vent for the night. Good draft though so am feeling good. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, aszumilo said: Calm down Bruce. Wasn't talking his "drafts", but more so his complete body of work since he has been here. I am sure everyone here is familiar with him, so, I don't need to recap, do I? I have not followed this thread closely and thought it was a Bruce as a GM discussion, not a body of work discussion. But, yeah, glad we agree, he seems damn good on the personnel side, which, you know, is pretty much all that ultimately matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 It's things like the Alex Smith deal that gets me pissed off at Snyder/Allen. OK, I know it was a lateral move from Kurt, but we could have waited. I know it would have been a year of Colt, but we've suffered for 25 years now and it's as if Snyder couldn't trust us for 1 more. Calm down Dan and don't panic. If Smith didn't get injured would we have gone ahead with Haskins at 15? And now the big cap hit for a player that didn't show much except for managing games that we could have easily lost. Not to mention keeping another decent CB. I think at least by showing it this year he is learning to have some patience. Gone are the draft trades for unproductive high priced players. Now it's been (at least for the last 3 years) letting the draft system work it's way out. If it was his call for Haskins then I think he may have finally got it. I won't worry much about later years because QB is his thing, and he'll just leave the rest up to the staff, who IMO are doing a pretty good job so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 minute ago, BleedBNG said: It's things like the Alex Smith deal that gets me pissed off at Snyder/Allen. OK, I know it was a lateral move from Kurt, but we could have waited. I know it would have been a year of Colt, but we've suffered for 25 years now and it's as if Snyder couldn't trust us for 1 more. Calm down Dan and don't panic. If Smith didn't get injured would we have gone ahead with Haskins at 15? And now the big cap hit for a player that didn't show much except for managing games that we could have easily lost. Not to mention keeping another decent CB. I think at least by showing it this year he is learning to have some patience. Gone are the draft trades for unproductive high priced players. Now it's been (at least for the last 3 years) letting the draft system work it's way out. If it was his call for Haskins then I think he may have finally got it. I won't worry much about later years because QB is his thing, and he'll just leave the rest up to the staff, who IMO are doing a pretty good job so far. I will agree with you the totality of the Smith deal was pretty dumb. We should NOT have given up Fuller. Period. And I would not have extended him as far as we did. Obviously this is made somewhat better in that a three year would have been harder to absorb than a four. I actually DO think had Smith not been hurt we'd have drafted Haskins though. Best case for us Smith was a starter for three years before handing off to someone else. Haskins is a growth project. Having Smith would have been a great way to ease in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 22 minutes ago, Art said: I will agree with you the totality of the Smith deal was pretty dumb. We should NOT have given up Fuller. Period. And I would not have extended him as far as we did. Obviously this is made somewhat better in that a three year would have been harder to absorb than a four. I actually DO think had Smith not been hurt we'd have drafted Haskins though. Best case for us Smith was a starter for three years before handing off to someone else. Haskins is a growth project. Having Smith would have been a great way to ease in. Yeah, I guess the plus side would be that Smith will be a good mentor for Haskins at least for this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Allen is like Ernie because Ernie would do good stuff then have a couple of things that were fireable. Trading for Alex, losing Fuller, then being on the hook for the extension after losing Cousins should be backbreaking mistake and firearble. I forgot Alex was on the roster the last three days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Every year Bruce Allen wins the offseason. The problem is every year his team looks good on paper, and is terrible on the football field. And only one of those counts. And for anyone that really thinks we have turned the corner in recent drafts with Kyle Smith leading it, theres nothing you can hope for more than Bruce Allen being fired. Because we all know Bruce wont tolerate competition, so he will run Smith out if hes allowed to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Honestly, though... - Skins win the McCloughan grievance - Lafemina--speculated that maybe his hiring might be a sign that Bruce could soon be out--goes to Snyder with complaints from corporate ticket holders upset at putting in a waiver claim on Foster. Lafemina is soon out as Head of Business Ops. - All charges are then dropped on Foster - Foster is then told he won't be suspended and can start immediately for the Redskins - Allen then signs Landon Collins - Then the Skins draft Haskins without budging - Then they trade up and grab Sweat, putting the NFC East on notice that the Skins' defense will seriously **** you up this year - Then the Skins' FO and scouts have what, for all intents and purposes, could be the Redskins' best draft of the decade - Then Skins fans all over twitter are saying they can't wait for training camp now, and that they are immediately gonna buy a Mclaurin jersey after seeing his video You know Bruce gotta be going into his next press conference like.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Dude...you just got played by the "Worst GM in the NFL" lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Props to Allen and the FO for nailing the draft. I've been harsh on him but I will give credit when it's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Why exactly are we hailing bruce all of a sudden....just look at his record since he got here dont give him excuses either if we are terrible this year he needs to go.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said: Why exactly are we hailing bruce all of a sudden....just look at his record since he got here dont give him excuses either if we are terrible this year he needs to go.. It hasn't been all bad. Certainly hasn't been great. But, IMO, it's important to recognize the good and the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 23 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: It hasn't been all bad. Certainly hasn't been great. But, IMO, it's important to recognize the good and the bad. As long as players won't have put on game tape on the field wearing Redskins uni, I'm not gonna call this draft good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said: Why exactly are we hailing bruce all of a sudden....just look at his record since he got here dont give him excuses either if we are terrible this year he needs to go.. Since when is giving credit where credit's due considered "hailing" anyone? If you think this has been a good draft or offseason, what's the harm in saying "good job"? (or "great job" for that matter)... 3 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: As long as players won't have put on game tape on the field wearing Redskins uni, I'm not gonna call this draft good... That's cool...but would you criticize anyone else for weighing in on what we do know so far and liking it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Califan007 said: That's cool...but would you criticize anyone else for weighing in on what we do know so far and liking it? Not at all, it's part of the trick. But we were excited about guys like Hankerson, Helu, Royster, Dennis Morris... Remember the drafting of Baccarri Rambo, steal of the year! Or Lache Seastrunk... Well you got my point of view. You're too smart for that Cali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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