The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Boss_Hogg]

Local media folks and fans say we need to follow the Vikings and Jaguars model of team building...and I'd be totally on board to let Kirk leave if we had a competent front office to build a stout defense like Jacksonville or Minnesota.

 

But who on here actually thinks Mr. Paints N' Picnics can build a competent team?  

 

[Dissident2]

4 hours ago, FrFan said:

I was just thinking BB is the only remaining Redskins top staff figure Snyder hasn't signed to use him as another promo tool.

He tried a few years back. And of course he screwed that up, too, being the incompetent goon that he is. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/01/27/the-deal-that-wasnt-done/ff2f67c8-b29a-4ae2-aeb4-fb2b142e6d39/?utm_term=.9719a5e11ae2

 

My favorite section that sums it all up:

Quote

 

Ego also was involved. Beathard never returned Snyder's call the weekend Demoff told his client about the team's take-it-or-leave-it stance. He was angry, and sources said he felt the Redskins had treated Demoff shabbily. When Beathard cooled off and tried to reach Snyder a few days later, the owner did not return his calls, believing he had been slighted.

"At no time did Bobby ever think he had an agreement," Demoff said. "They wanted a one-year agreement. I kept asking them, 'Do you have anyone in your personnel operation with a one-year agreement?'

"I've done an awful lot of these over the years. It was a style that made no sense if you wanted to sign Bobby Beathard. Bobby really thought it would be interesting to work with Snyder and Spurrier. . . . All Bobby ever said was, 'Treat me fairly.' "

 

 

And since I'm posting old Beathard articles, here's one from 2015 right after SM was hired. Read this and either cry or laugh. Up to you. You can also do both:

Quote

 

The former GM said he spent time on the road with McCloughan’s father Kent; he also said he’s met Scot several times. And Beathard also said he had no qualms about McLoughan navigating the notoriously political hallways of Redskins Park.

“I don’t think it’s going to be as hard as you’d think,” he said. “I think Dan [Snyder] will let Bruce [Allen] do the things he needs to do, and I think that Dan’s going to like him. And I know Bruce will. I think Bruce will be hands-off, let him run this thing. He recognizes the talent this guy has. Bruce knows him. I mean, Bruce has been out there, he knows what kind of young man this is. So I think it’s the perfect hire, every aspect of it.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/01/08/former-redskins-gm-bobby-beathard-says-scot-mccloughan-was-the-perfect-hire/?utm_term=.fa12acd91dda

 

 

[Boss_Hogg]

BB would've hated working for Snyder. 

 

Dan is too much of a die-hard hands-on fan for anyone to succeed here. 

[Dissident2]

13 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

BB would've hated working for Snyder. 

 

Dan is too much of a die-hard hands-on fan for anyone to succeed here. 

 

Can you imagine Beathard paired with Spurrier? Yeah, that would've worked, lol. 

 

As far as the "fan" thing goes, though, what kind of "fan" of that era treats BB that way and then doesn't return his calls in some tit-for-tat childish fit? 

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

As far as the "fan" thing goes, though, what kind of "fan" of that era treats BB that way and then doesn't return his calls in some tit-for-tat childish fit? 

Only one kind.

[TSO]

23 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

As far as the "fan" thing goes, though, what kind of "fan" of that era treats BB that way and then doesn't return his calls in some tit-for-tat childish fit? 

 

We see a lot of that type ourselves here and on social media, right?

 

The ones who have absolutely no sense of how vital FO structure and personnel acquisition are, while placing far too much emphasis on coaching and individual player performance without assessing context/environment/surroundings. 

 

The question is, has Dan smartly recognized that the majority of fans are this way and, thus, he can pacify them and market accordingly? Or is he just simply of the same “surface level” mind, and really is “just a fan” who “wants to win” but doesn’t know how or wants to do it his way? 

 

I lean towards the former, but maybe I’m giving him too much credit. 

[onedrop]

36 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

We see a lot of that type ourselves here and on social media, right?

 

The ones who have absolutely no sense of how vital FO structure and personnel acquisition are, while placing far too much emphasis on coaching and individual player performance without assessing context/environment/surroundings. 

 

The question is, has Dan smartly recognized that the majority of fans are this way and, thus, he can pacify them and market accordingly? Or is he just simply of the same “surface level” mind, and really is “just a fan” who “wants to win” but doesn’t know how or wants to do it his way? 

 

I lean towards the former, but maybe I’m giving him too much credit. 

does it have to be one way or the other? its been so long, the suffering that is, that one would think dan would have to have an idea of at least what NOT to do. he just cant help himself, always reverts to form.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

We see a lot of that type ourselves here and on social media, right?

 

The ones who have absolutely no sense of how vital FO structure and personnel acquisition are, while placing far too much emphasis on coaching and individual player performance without assessing context/environment/surroundings. 

 

The question is, has Dan smartly recognized that the majority of fans are this way and, thus, he can pacify them and market accordingly? Or is he just simply of the same “surface level” mind, and really is “just a fan” who “wants to win” but doesn’t know how or wants to do it his way? 

 

I lean towards the former, but maybe I’m giving him too much credit. 

 

My only glimmer of optimism is it might be finally coming to a head.  Does Dan react to it like the typical owner does?  Got no clue and I have some doubts.  But I think Dan's bag of tricks is running out. Enough people are on to his games.  To me the core of his games are: 1. scapegoating.  2. selling a new beginning.  3. acting like fans can care less about who runs the FO, we just care about the head coach.  He'd have to be incredibly dense not to notice that the jig is up on those fronts with most people.  

 

I have been to Redskins Park and noticed that the 980 studio is the first thing you see when you walk in the door on the right.  Adjacent to their studio on the left side is the team meeting-film room.   I just find it amusing to hear Sheehan this week including this morning speaking within a stones throw of the front office guys -- go on about how the FO doesn't have the structure to have success like other top franchises.  And as for the narrative about letting Kirk go so you can build a defense and running game -- he doesn't think this specific FO is capable of pulling that off.

 

I can't recall this much chatter about this FO since the last year of Cerrato.  The Kirk issue is bringing it home.  We not only have the narrative of how royally the FO botched the negotiation but more importantly the narrative that the reason Kirk doesn't come back is because of his lack of faith in this specific FO.  That's pretty wild and strong. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think the only way this gets better (and by "better" I mean a front office that can sustain a winning culture) is gutting most of what's there below the owner and hiring a proven football guy to oversee the operation. Jacksonville just did it with Coughlin...he's someone who has changed the culture there under an owner who never really struck me as anything special. 

 

If Snyder ever placed the right guy in charge, I'm actually pretty confident that he's learned enough to leave that guy alone. He's probably left Allen alone too much (not insisting on signing Cousins sooner, etc.). But, I can't **** about that because that's what I spent a decade saying he needed to do. 

 

I wish back in 2004, Snyder had just a tad more foresight and hired Gibbs to run the organization, not coach. Then, we'd have established an organizational philosophy from top to the bottom that was endorsed by a proven winner. Really, if Griffin didn't get in the way, I think that's where we'd be with the Shanahans right now. Mike would be running everything and Kyle would be coaching. Snyder would be getting weekly memos with the top 3-4 things he should care about and otherwise endorsing checks...

[veteranskinsfan]

I agree that the owner is running out of his bag of marketing tricks.  Fans are really fed up.   Until he lets Allen go and brings in a football guy over Doug Williams we will not be a playoff bound franchise year in and year out.  Heard that Dallas and Skins have not been to NFC Championship game in 20 years or more.  What do both teams have in common?  Answer: Two owners that like to micro-manage their teams and no real General Managers on board to make football decisions and draft well, make trades, etc.

[Boss_Hogg]

33 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I agree that the owner is running out of his bag of marketing tricks.  Fans are really fed up.   Until he lets Allen go and brings in a football guy over Doug Williams we will not be a playoff bound franchise year in and year out.  Heard that Dallas and Skins have not been to NFC Championship game in 20 years or more.  What do both teams have in common?  Answer: Two owners that like to micro-manage their teams and no real General Managers on board to make football decisions and draft well, make trades, etc.

 

Redskins 1991

Lions 1991

Cowboys 1995

Browns 1989 - although they were gone for 5-6 years

 

This is sad, our team is perpetually awful and sadly I don't see an end in sight. The Browns will win a playoff game before we do. 

 

Book it

 

 

[BurgundyBooger]

I've read on the Post that Bruce is helping Dan to secure a new stadium/location deal. How accurate is that, and if so does this mean Bruce will be in the picture until the Skins find a new home?

[Tsailand]

59 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

I've read on the Post that Bruce is helping Dan to secure a new stadium/location deal. How accurate is that, and if so does this mean Bruce will be in the picture until the Skins find a new home?

 

Quite possibly yes.

 

Bruce Allen using his political connections to do the stadium deal could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars to Snyder.  Compared to that, winning on the field is a distant second.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Quite possibly yes.

 

Bruce Allen using his political connections to do the stadium deal could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars to Snyder.  Compared to that, winning on the field is a distant second.

 

He is very involved in that. Isn't it Allen who has demonstrably focused the team's attention on Virginia (the training camp deal, the name endorsement by VA politicians, etc.) lately? That along with rumors that the stadium could be in Loudoun County definitely makes it seem like he's instrumental in these talks. 

[Berggy9598]

Why do I feel like our franchise inspired some of the plot points in season 3 of Ray Donovan

[Riggo#44]

It's quite possible that Bruce Allen has passed Vinny Cerrato in my hate-book. Cerrato was a buffoon that would stick his foot in his mouth repeatedly and make really dumb-**** decisions. Allen is a politician through-and-through, and makes different kind of dip**** decisions. But he has the ability to schmooze his way out of it, and fire/blame others. Unfortunately, Allen is not going to go away anytime soon.

[BurgundyBooger]

19 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

Quite possibly yes.

 

Bruce Allen using his political connections to do the stadium deal could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars to Snyder.  Compared to that, winning on the field is a distant second.

 

Just very frustrating.

 

I'm no businessman but why put the cart before the horse? Get the right personnel people, build a winning team, then worry about relocation. I'd rather the Skins win in some dilapidated stadium.

[Boss_Hogg]

Bruce is heavily involved in a new tax-payer funded stadium in Loudon, Co VA; he isn't going anywhere, even if the Skins go 0-16 in 2018. 

 

Winning off the field...for Danny

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

It's quite possible that Bruce Allen has passed Vinny Cerrato in my hate-book. Cerrato was a buffoon that would stick his foot in his mouth repeatedly and make really dumb-**** decisions. Allen is a politician through-and-through, and makes different kind of dip**** decisions. But he has the ability to schmooze his way out of it, and fire/blame others. Unfortunately, Allen is not going to go away anytime soon.

 

Also, Allen is the guy making more of his crappy decisions while Cerrato was just a yes-man doing Snyder's bidding. It's not as respectable (because he didn't own the accountability) but it's also less deplorable. 

[bh32]

No way does Allen survive if he dosen't get a LTD done with Cousins and the Redskins finish with a loosing record,while Cousins take a team to the playoffs..The fans would most likely give up on the team and Snyder can not take a risk like that in my opinion..

[Burgold]

It's so funny how big a shadow Cousins shines over everything.

It isn't hard to find a perspective that makes the Redskins curve look promising.

Is there greater depth and talent in recent years?

Did they execute a good draft last year?

Did they navigate an unbelievable flood of injuries to keep the team in contention and find some surprising contributors last year?

Did they land some free agent gems?

Was last year's draft and free agency better than Scott's and Shanny's?

 

Now, that said, we have to recognize that Allen bares the burden of the Redskins' record for the past nine years... and that is, by and large, not mediocre, but dreadful. The truth though is that the Redskins' talent has been improving and their results have been improving. In my book, it's been improving too slowly and may have hit its ceiling around 8-8 or 9-7. Still, one can cling to the injury argument to excuse this year and guess that without it we could easily have been a nine or ten win team.

 

However, no matter how you view the rest of the team, they have utterly botched the Cousins' relationship. It paints a stain on everything and makes every other move pale in comparison. More, the Cousins mismanagement ripples over every other decision because of how it impacts the cap and ties up so much money. I would also guess that it casts a shadow over team morale to a degree even though other players have been well treated and compensated (Kerrigan and Reed for example).

 

Given all of this, if I were to judge Allen excluding Cousins, I'd probably give him a C+ and maybe even a B- (looking only at 2017 when he had soul control). Including Cousins, that grad falls down to a flat D. Over his nine year tenure, I think a D might be a generous grade.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I'm not sure I'd classify the 2017 free agency group a success.  Whether it was Scots list or Bruce or whoever.  Outside of Brown, we got nothing.  Edit: Swearinger I guess you can count as a positive. 

 

We then lost two 1k yard receivers to free agency.  

 

Color me unimpressed.

 

While I do think the team overall is in a better place when healthy than in years past, it's hard to get too excited given who's now buying the groceries and the botched situation at QB.

 

Grading on a curve against the results of Dans ownership perhaps he gets a C.  

[onedrop]

8 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

Given all of this, if I were to judge Allen excluding Cousins, I'd probably give him a C+ and maybe even a B- (looking only at 2017 when he had soul control). Including Cousins, that grad falls down to a flat D.

I actually agree with your entire post but edited most out so as not to quote a block of text.  I would add that if our end game was to be the best of the also rans, occasionally insulting the post season with our presence allen's grade should be a solid b. however, since this is ultimately not the goal the curve is a bit lower.

 

a good manager once told me "certain horses can get you so far, from that point on youre going to need thoroughbreds". weve ridden the Snyder/allen dog and pony show as far as it can or ever will take us.  from here we are going to need real football minds.

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not sure I'd classify the 2017 free agency group a success.  Whether it was Scots list or Bruce or whoever.  Outside of Brown, we got nothing.  We then lost two 1k yard receivers to free agency.  

 

Color me unimpressed.

 

While I do think the team overall is in a better place when healthy than in years past, it's hard to get too excited given who's now buying the groceries and the botched situation at QB.

 

Grading on a curve against the results of Dans ownership perhaps he gets a C.  

Brown was a success. I'd argue Swearinger did pretty well.  I liked Virgil and Rose as pickups as well. The Mcs looked pretty good until the middle linebackers and Allen/Ionadus went down (I'd probably lean towards bad there though). Pryor was a swing and a miss.

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, onedrop said:

I actually agree with your entire post but edited most out so as not to quote a block of text.  I would add that if our end game was to be the best of the also rans, occasionally insulting the post season with our presence allen's grade should be a solid b. however, since this is ultimately not the goal the curve is a bit lower.

 

a good manager once told me "certain horses can get you so far, from that point on youre going to need thoroughbreds". weve ridden the Snyder/allen dog and pony show as far as it can or ever will take us.  from here we are going to need real football minds.

I think that is my biggest worry with both Allen and Gruden. Kind of reminds me of Witman and Boudreau respectively for the Wiz and Cavs. Both teams were perpetually stinky and they got their to rise up to the level of competitive first round playoff outs. Eventually, both teams realized this was not good enough. Mind you, neither has really done any better with their replacements, but I think those team plateaued. I think Allen's cheapness and conservatism creates a low ceiling.

 

Even in his "great" draft of 2017, you see a lot of good players, but no superstar or "wow" player. This team is pretty much devoid of great players. It's nice that we finally have a number of good players. In fact, we have enough good players to compete. We don't have the "wow" players needed to dominate. I think you have to judge Allen on that too. Does he go for the safe bet too often... eschewing potential greatness for solid.