The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Fat Stupid Loser]

This organization is so pathetic. There is always college football.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

I dont know about your last comment.  This particular team should have been a 9 win team, not witholding the injuries.  2 plays were the difference between 9-7 and 7-9.  If we had been healthy, this team SHOULD be a 10 win team, contending for a playoff spot.  Now I understand that a lot goes into that, and as important as Kirk is to the offense, Brown is to the defense.  He's the linchpin that takes this defense from borderline bad, to absolutely terrible.  Development would lead me to believe the defense will take a step forward with health and ability, if all things return.  Not saying it's going to be dominant, but it should be better.  Ioannidis, Allen, Fuller, Nicholson, Anderson... all a lot of inexperience and development was stunted for quite a few due to injury.  If we lose Brown and try to go Vigil / Spaight in the middle for a whole season, we absolutely could be in trouble.

 

 

But like i said, I'm mirroring this roster to next season when i say that, and a lot has to happen for this roster to remain intact... which I don't think will happen.  

Here's are a few thoughts:

 

- Injuries are going to happen to every team every year.  To the extent they did to the Redskins this year?  Probably not. But you're going to lose a few starters and impact players no matter what.  For example, can we really count on Reed to stay healthy and play 16 games?  I don't think so

 

- They were also 2 or 3 plays away from 10 or even 11 wins in 2016.  But those 2 or 3 plays happen.  And they've happened each year from 2015 - 2017.  Conversely, we also have won a game or two that we shouldn't have (Seattle this year, for example).  Since this is a pattern over 3 years, I would have to assume it will happen again.  Missed kicks, bad clock management, missed 3rd downs, bad 2 minute drills... these things are trends.  I hope they would turn around, but I can't expect them to turn around, especially if all the coaches and players return.  If you do the same thing over and over, you're going to get the same results.  

 

- The team might not be as talented next year defensively as it was this year, unless they spend some real money. As you mentioned, Brown is an UFA.  So is Mason Foster. That's both of your starting ILBs.  Breeland is probably going to be elsewhere.  They will probably draft a guy and sign a guy, but it doesn't look like they are going to be appreciably better, it would be good if they are about the same and a little more healthy.  

 

- And I'm sorry, if they really rock with Doctson, Grant, Crowder, Reed as primary pass-catchers, and Kelley, Perine as primary backs, unless CT has a 2000 yard season, you are going to have offensive issues with explosiveness and consistency.  Even with a fully healthy OL and Krik being back. 

 

- The year over year trend has actually been down since 2015.  9-7, 8-7-1, and 7-9.  If my math is correct, they have gotten worse by half a game every year. 

 

Again, I'm not saying this team, as constructed, is awful.  I just don't see better than 9-7 if they got the band back together.  That's a 2 game improvement from this year. 

 

Shrug.  I'd love to be wrong.  

[RonArtest15]

Every time I see this thread get bumped near the top, I always think I'll open it up to read that Bruce was reassigned or fired. 

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Here's are a few thoughts:

 

- Injuries are going to happen to every team every year.  To the extent they did to the Redskins this year?  Probably not. But you're going to lose a few starters and impact players no matter what.  For example, can we really count on Reed to stay healthy and play 16 games?  I don't think so

 

- They were also 2 or 3 plays away from 10 or even 11 wins in 2016.  But those 2 or 3 plays happen.  And they've happened each year from 2015 - 2017.  Conversely, we also have won a game or two that we shouldn't have (Seattle this year, for example).  Since this is a pattern over 3 years, I would have to assume it will happen again.  Missed kicks, bad clock management, missed 3rd downs, bad 2 minute drills... these things are trends.  I hope they would turn around, but I can't expect them to turn around, especially if all the coaches and players return.  If you do the same thing over and over, you're going to get the same results.  

 

- The team might not be as talented next year defensively as it was this year, unless they spend some real money. As you mentioned, Brown is an UFA.  So is Mason Foster. That's both of your starting ILBs.  Breeland is probably going to be elsewhere.  They will probably draft a guy and sign a guy, but it doesn't look like they are going to be appreciably better, it would be good if they are about the same and a little more healthy.  

 

- And I'm sorry, if they really rock with Doctson, Grant, Crowder, Reed as primary pass-catchers, and Kelley, Perine as primary backs, unless CT has a 2000 yard season, you are going to have offensive issues with explosiveness and consistency.  Even with a fully healthy OL and Krik being back. 

 

- The year over year trend has actually been down since 2015.  9-7, 8-7-1, and 7-9.  If my math is correct, they have gotten worse by half a game every year. 

 

Again, I'm not saying this team, as constructed, is awful.  I just don't see better than 9-7 if they got the band back together.  That's a 2 game improvement from this year. 

 

Shrug.  I'd love to be wrong.  

You're not wrong, and it's probably the dejected Redskins fan in me that looked at what happened this season and tried to squeeze milk out of rock, in the form of hope and direction.  Something felt different early this season... That said, I'm not too naive to know that a large number of the difference makers on this team, most likely wont be here next season.... If we had those guys under contract for the next 3 years... we'd be a much better team... but we dont. 

[Tsailand]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Bruce towards the end of the season, hires a new GM, and then they whack Jay at the end of the season.

 

After he's fired, will Bruce get a job as team president or other senior team executive for one of the other 31 teams?

 

After he's fired, will Jay get a job as HC or OC for one of the other 31 teams?

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

- The year over year trend has actually been down since 2015.  9-7, 8-7-1, and 7-9.  If my math is correct, they have gotten worse by half a game every year. 

I would believe we were worse by 1.5 a game between 2016 and 2017 no? .5 would have gotten us to 8-8 no?

 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Again, I'm not saying this team, as constructed, is awful.  I just don't see better than 9-7 if they got the band back together.  That's a 2 game improvement from this year. 

Somehow, we do have a problem with what we've been doing those last years. Signing 1 year deal is good for guys that are unproven, like Pryor, or those coming back from devastating injuries. I can see the reason why.

But, we seem to do that on almost everyone, which means that each offseason you have to almost start from scratch with all our playmakers mostly. Now we say that we have to sign Zach Brown, but does the guy want to be here? I'm not sure.

 

I find it weird that we stuck our asses with McClain and McGee for a few years that will be costly, or a Lauvao (we seemd to have spend 4.25M on him this year!), but just can't strike a Deal with a Brown or a Cousins. We seem eager to spend dollars on not so good free agents, but when we have to signs guys you need on a team, then we're getting cheap... That seems like going backwards when dealing with FA.

 

If we go after another LG this year we'll be shy dealing with a Norwell, or recently turned guard Luke Joekel, Then we'll offer top money for a middle of the road G hoping it will fiw the position.

 

That looks like badly used salary cap.

[Voice_of_Reason]

53 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

After he's fired, will Bruce get a job as team president or other senior team executive for one of the other 31 teams?

Probably not, though I keep hearing that he's respected for some aspects of his job across the league.  

 

53 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

After he's fired, will Jay get a job as HC or OC for one of the other 31 teams?

OC, yes.  HC, not immediately.  But Norv Turner got 2 additional chances to be a HC after he was fired from here, and Norv was nothing even remotely special as a HC.  McDaniels flamed out spectacularly in his first foray, and now is a hot candidate.  There are plenty of re-treads.  

 

Typically, however, the re-treads that fail once fail again.  Bellichick even had 1 11-5 season in Cleveland, even though I believe his overall record was below .500.  

[markshark84]

On 11/22/2017 at 1:45 PM, Thirtyfive2seven said:

It really makes me wonder if Dan Snyder really wants his hands in things and that's why Scot was fired.  

 

This is correct and my feeling.

 

Snyder and his ego can't be hands off.  It's impossible for him ---- and the reason why this franchise will never have success until he's gone.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

You're not wrong, and it's probably the dejected Redskins fan in me that looked at what happened this season and tried to squeeze milk out of rock, in the form of hope and direction.  Something felt different early this season... That said, I'm not too naive to know that a large number of the difference makers on this team, most likely wont be here next season.... If we had those guys under contract for the next 3 years... we'd be a much better team... but we dont. 

We all look for silver linings, but the FO is so broken...

 

 

[Dissident2]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

OC, yes.  HC, not immediately.  But Norv Turner got 2 additional chances to be a HC after he was fired from here, and Norv was nothing even remotely special as a HC.  McDaniels flamed out spectacularly in his first foray, and now is a hot candidate. 

 

The thing that got those guys more chances, though, is that they were part of Super Bowl winning teams and widely credited with helping those teams win Super Bowls. Gruden has never been that. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, markshark84 said:

 

This is correct and my feeling.

 

Snyder and his ego can't be hands off.  It's impossible for him ---- and the reason why this franchise will never have success until he's gone.

There's no evidence that he's involved at all, no reporting that I've seen of him doing anything except for supporting Bruce.  That's his big mistake.  

 

Also, Dan, if he wanted to be hands on, would be much more splashy than what has gone on here recently.  Nothing splashy about our recent moves. 

[markshark84]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There's no evidence that he's involved at all, no reporting that I've seen of him doing anything except for supporting Bruce.  That's his big mistake.  

 

Evidence from whom?  Snyder himself?  Think about where our "evidence" comes from.  Don't be naive.  Please.

 

Do you think Snyder is going to come out and TELL the fans he's mettling in football ops?  He is already hated enough --- and for VERY good reason.  Come on.  Seriously??

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Dissident2 said:

 

The thing that got those guys more chances, though, is that they were part of Super Bowl winning teams and widely credited with helping those teams win Super Bowls. Gruden has never been that. 

As coordinators?  I guess.  But certainly not as HCs.  

 

I purposely left guys like Fisher, Caldwell, Fox off the list because they at least got 1 team to a SB, and are re-treads.  There are other re-treads that didn't even come close.  

 

I think Gruden will get another shot eventually, if he is successful as an OC.  

1 minute ago, markshark84 said:

 

Evidence from whom?  Snyder himself?  Think about where our "evidence" comes from.  Don't be naive.  Please.

Whenever Dan has his hands in the pot, it's evident.  There is no evidence.  What's the splashy, marquee move?  The last one was in 2012 with Griffin.  The only one since then (kinda) has been Norman.  

 

That's not Dan's style.  If he was in, he'd be running up the bill and signing everybody under the sun for marketing purposes. 

Some people just can't let go of 2000, when we signed Bruce Smith, Deion, and the rest of the 1995 pro-bowl team.  Things have changed.  He's still making mistakes, but he's making DIFFERENT mistakes.  Now he's trusting Bruce, and Bruce is an abject imbecile.  

[markshark84]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There's no evidence that he's involved at all, no reporting that I've seen of him doing anything except for supporting Bruce.  That's his big mistake.  

 

Also, Dan, if he wanted to be hands on, would be much more splashy than what has gone on here recently.  Nothing splashy about our recent moves. 

 

Splashy?  Snyder L-I-T-E-R-A-L-L-Y wrote the book on how to destroy a roster.  The EXACT OPPOSITE of what he used to do prior is what successful teams like NE and GB do --- build from the draft and not sign older vets at high prices.  That said, do you think he hasn't learned from that?  

 

I honestly believe you think Snyder is even dumber than I do ---- in that he didn't learn from his massive mistakes in teh early 2000s.  However, Snyder is still mettling ---- in different ways and is smarter about what he discloses

[markshark84]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Some people just can't let go of 2000, when we signed Bruce Smith, Deion, and the rest of the 1995 pro-bowl team.  Things have changed.  He's still making mistakes, but he's making DIFFERENT mistakes.  Now he's trusting Bruce, and Bruce is an abject imbecile.  

 

LOL.  I literally wrote the same thing as your 3rd sentence and deleted it ---- but I think we agree with the exception that I believe Snyder has learned to run things via a puppet regime vs. a dictatorship.  Snyder used to run his organization like Kim Jong-un does North Korea, now he runs it like Nixon ran Vietnam in 1972....

 

Either way, he is still running things and making the key decisions.

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Some people just can't let go of 2000

 

I think most have let go of 2000 ---- what I can't let go of is 1998-current.......

 

Snyder has owned the team for 20 years and how many playoff wins do we have?  If you take away the year he inherited the team and didn't have the opportunity to destroy it yet --- it looks even worse.  

[BurgundyBooger]

52 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

That's not Dan's style.  If he was in, he'd be running up the bill and signing everybody under the sun for marketing purposes. 

Some people just can't let go of 2000, when we signed Bruce Smith, Deion, and the rest of the 1995 pro-bowl team.  Things have changed.  He's still making mistakes, but he's making DIFFERENT mistakes.  Now he's trusting Bruce, and Bruce is an abject imbecile.  

 

Dan is simply not a good leader.

 

He's incapable of forging a winning team himself and is equally incapable of assigning that role to others. We're damned if he does (meddle) and damned if he doesn't (hire others to meddle). Unfortunately, it all starts with him...because it has to. SOMEONE has to build a winner, and it falls to either the owner or the people the owner brings in. If the owner is incompetent, everything else falls apart. Barring a complete personality adjustment on his part, this organization is screwed.

[onedrop]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There's no evidence that he's involved at all, no reporting that I've seen of him doing anything except for supporting Bruce.  That's his big mistake.  

 

Also, Dan, if he wanted to be hands on, would be much more splashy than what has gone on here recently.  Nothing splashy about our recent moves. 

the evidence is that we still suck.

 

allen is to snyder as garret is to jerry jones. a puppet. that is it. everything is controlled by snyder. he wanted to appease the fans so he created the illusion of stepping back to let the "football guys" run the team. im calling straight up horse****. they brought in SM and we saw improvement but when he wasnt just another tow the line yes man, fired and drug through the mud.

 

id quit football all together but for one thing..why should i give up the team ive loved my entire life? i didnt **** it up, snyder did. only two things are possible. snyder is still the same, micro managing and controlling everything but has grown better at hiding it therefore we suck. OR he isnt smart, liked or respected enough to get the right people to turn it around so we still suck. either way its his fault because hes had two FN decades without any sustained progress and here we are, suckin.....again, still.

[SkinsFTW]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There's no evidence that he's involved at all, no reporting that I've seen of him doing anything except for supporting Bruce.  That's his big mistake.  

 

 

Why didn't Cousins get signed in 2015, long before "you like that?" and why did RG3 get his extension before Scot and Gruden talked them into allowing Scot and Gruden to do their jobs by choosing which of their Qbs would start the season? Do you really believe that Scot wanted to hand a clearly done RG3 close to 20 Mil?

 

You think that was all Bruce?

 

The below video is from 2014 and I'm sure you've already seen it: (and I'm not buying the Bruce is running it all charade when we already know that Scot wasn't and Shanahan before him claims that they interfered as well)

 

 

[Dissident2]

Listened to a really interesting interview on ESPN 980 today with Joe Banner, who used to be with the Eagles front office. He talked about a lot of Redskins-related things from the perspective of competing against them while with the Eagles. 

 

A couple takeaways: 

1. He said he really respected SM and thought losing him was a big deal

2. When asked if he respected Bruce, he said Bruce was "very smart," but he said it was the opinion of himself and of most of his peers that Bruce would do the best for an organization if he was working with a "strong personnel guy." 

 

Interesting thoughts from someone who used to be working for an enemy. 

[FrFan]

27 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

Listened to a really interesting interview on ESPN 980 today with Joe Banner, who used to be with the Eagles front office. He talked about a lot of Redskins-related things from the perspective of competing against them while with the Eagles. 

 

A couple takeaways: 

1. He said he really respected SM and thought losing him was a big deal

2. When asked if he respected Bruce, he said Bruce was "very smart," but he said it was the opinion of himself and of most of his peers that Bruce would do the best for an organization if he was working with a "strong personnel guy." 

 

Interesting thoughts from someone who used to be working for an enemy. 

He clearly said he respected SM not BA, he said "very smart", did he go into specifics ?

[skinzplay]

58 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

 

2. When asked if he respected Bruce, he said Bruce was "very smart," but he said it was the opinion of himself and of most of his peers that Bruce would do the best for an organization if he was working with a "strong personnel guy." 

 

Interesting thoughts from someone who used to be working for an enemy. 

 

But watch out, though: he's started watching more film!   Bobby Beathard, eat your heart out!

[markmills67]

Altogether now

 

Allen Out, Allen Out, Allen Out, Allen Out, Allen Out.

 

Keep it going fellow Skin's

 

HTTR 

[Dissident2]

3 hours ago, FrFan said:

He clearly said he respected SM not BA, he said "very smart", did he go into specifics ?

You can listen to the whole thing here. I still haven't gotten through the entire thing. He was supposed to also talk about the McNabb trade from the Eagles perspective, but I haven't gotten there yet. It's an interesting listen. 

 

http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wtem/media/mp3/01_12_18_Joe_Banner_with_Al_Galdi-1515759454.mp3

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 #SKINS #FANS #ONLY!!!! Retweeted

Josh McCoy‏ @joshmccoy941 13h13 hours ago

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Bobby Beathard could evaluate talent! We sure do miss a true talent evaluator for the Skins. #HTTR

 

 

 

[FrFan]

I was just thinking BB is the only remaining Redskins top staff figure Snyder hasn't signed to use him as another promo tool.