Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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3 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said:

I am not fooled by this management anymore when it comes to FA or the draft.   There is no player out there that is good enough to turn this around that the Redskins have a chance at getting.  The Chiefs aren’t letting Mahomes go.  No decent free agent would dare come here except to get paid and Redskins are cap strapped and can’t even be a major player.  Drafting in mid 1st round won’t bring in an impact player plus I can’t even trust that they can identify an impact player even if it ran them over in a tank.

 

First....he needs to build a world-class facility like the Viking just moved into last Spring which cost Wilf $1 billion.  Build it and they may come because they will see the commitment plus it will give off the vibes of a first class operation.  Dan should have done this years ago.  Their facility is a joke and any talk about passion for winning is nonsense every time I drive past Redskin Park.  It’s a joke when something that important gets neglected and then Dan goes off and buys himself expensive toys.  He is showing is real priorities.   Me first, team second.

 

 

 

I like the idea, I can't see a world class facility turning anything around unless we are a college football team trying to bring in good recruits. I can see plenty of good players coming here if we show them the money. Good players will still be good here if they fit the system and have a good supporting cast. I do agree with FA which has been obviously  terrible.

 

It doesn't matter what spot we have in the first round draft, there is still plenty of amazing talent left by 16 or 32. I actually can't complain about our Draft in the last two seasons.

 

Dan needs real consultants for the entire organization for 1 year to spot all of the problems with solutions. Maybe it that can help Snyder change whatever is wrong with our organization if HE decides follows through with the solutions given. Because terminating Bruce and finding a replacement doesn't give me any confidence our team is going to improve.

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7 minutes ago, mike42 said:

 

 

Dan needs real consultants for the entire organization for 1 year to spot all of the problems with solutions. Maybe it that can help Snyder change whatever is wrong with our organization if HE decides follows through with the solutions given. Because terminating Bruce and finding a replacement doesn't give me any confidence our team is going to improve.

Tried that with Lafema and crew..fired in less than a year because he didnt like what they were telling him.

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In that interview, hey was pretty coy about Alex's 2019 status. It makes me think something is afoot.

 

He could have easily said "Alex's health is the first priority. We just don't know yet where he will be in 6 months. If he's healthy and wants to play, that is one option. If not, we're weighing other options including Colt and Josh."   

 

But he smirked, and hedged, and sorta kinda kinda.. said nothing. I wonder why?

 

Lots of smirking.

Edited by Stadium-Armory

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46 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

 

But he smirked, and hedged, and sorta kinda kinda.. said nothing. I WONDER WHY?

 

 

 

 

Lots of smirking.

Because he is evil.

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It would have been awesome if no reporters asked any questions, or better yet, didn't even show up.

 

I have another question for Bruce.  Shouldn't he be focused on the seniors / upcoming draft, vs preparing to be barraged by the media?

 

They were far too nice to him. They get 1 chance every 500 days; they needed to put on their big boy pants and drill him with THE toughest question because its likely their last interview with him.  Yes, they will be off the beat before he goes anywhere.

Edited by RandyHolt
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Another good editorial but following the FireBruceAllen movement -- Barry has nothing to fear, everyone gets Dan is the top problem.  But one hurdle at a time.  I'd have no issue with a selltheteam movement which is more on point.  There are very few people if any that are anti-Bruce but pro Dan or even neutral about Dan. 

 

I do agree that Bruce is a shield for Dan but not in the strict sense that the dude is just some robot that does Dan's bidding.  Though I do suspect sometimes he indeed does Dan's bidding.  I think Bruce is a shield in that people's animosity is directed his way as opposed to exclusively at Dan.   But I don't think anyone misses the boat that Dan is by a mile the problem.    And if Dan thinks Bruce is a good way to distract fans he's sadly mistaken because he has no good spin on this either way. 

 

You got really 2 schools of thought on this typically.

 

A.  Dan has improved in one sense (though he's still a problem on that front -- improved doesn't mean cured) as for meddling.  But even with that small development, he misses the forest for the trees.  It's about developing a winning culture which he clearly stinks at.  The culture stinks.  And he has no idea how to form a winning FO structure or have any sense of how to hire good people.   He's too impatient to rebuild and learn how to build a winner.

 

B.  Dan meddles just as much as he ever did and uses Bruce to do his bidding.    He runs the team from the dark and Bruce helps cover it all up for him.  Bruce is just like Vinny in that he's mostly an empty vessel that just does Dan's bidding and takes the heat for all of Dan's dumb moves.

 

I get challenged on occasion by some of my fellow Dan detractors for being more into theory A than B.  But we are all guessing.  I am somewhat in between those 2 theories but closer to A.   I have felt A is if anything the harshest theory about Dan.  With A it means that even if Dan tries to do it better and reform some he's so incompetent and stupid about it that he still can't get it right.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins-fans-are-furious-with-bruce-allen-and-thats-just-how-dan-snyder-like-it/2019/01/23/a738c7a8-1f28-11e9-8e21-59a09ff1e2a1_story.html?utm_term=.51b04689049b

Snyder’s ploy is working. If anyone — fans, analysts, media, other NFL owners — are mocking or degrading Allen (and they are doing all of that and more), then they’re missing the larger point. Their distaste for Allen is at such a peak level that the owner almost has become an afterthought, even as he is the root of Allen’s employment. In Snyder’s world, that’s just fine.

You know the last time Snyder took questions from a group of reporters? Best I can tell it was at a Joe Gibbs charity event on — get this — Dec. 9, 2010. Part of what he said then, with Mike Shanahan’s first team off to a disappointing 5-7 start.

“When you have a new organization in place with Bruce Allen and his team and Coach Shanahan and all new coaches, things take a little time for them to shape what they want to do,” Snyder said then. “. . . I’m feeling great about Mike and Bruce. They’ve got great leadership. We’re in good hands.”

Uh, no. Things haven’t taken a little time. They have taken a generation.

Bruce Allen is part of the problem. But he’s a symptom, not a cause.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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It amazes me that anyone would trust this guy to run something bigger than a 7-11. And he'd probably mess that up, too.

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Local media is gutless. They got exactly what they wanted - Bruce to sit down with them, and they asked soft ball bull**** with no follow ups. 

 

Gutless. 

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18 minutes ago, tshile said:

Local media is gutless. They got exactly what they wanted - Bruce to sit down with them, and they asked soft ball bull**** with no follow ups. 

 

Gutless. 

I really didn’t think they were that bad, other than letting Bruce off the hook when he “won’t go into that”.  They should have expected that and banded together to force issues down his throat.

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20 minutes ago, tshile said:

Local media is gutless. They got exactly what they wanted - Bruce to sit down with them, and they asked soft ball bull**** with no follow ups. 

 

Gutless. 

 

Yeah, but it is irrelevant.

 

Whether they asked weak, softball questions or tough hard-nosed questions, Allen would've given the same answers either way.

 

Most of these answers were prepared, canned, and stocked in advance. Filled with coachspeak redundancy, and evasive PR shinola.

 

It wouldn't have made a difference.

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Just going though a long article about Browns ownership.  If you read the whole thing, Haslam comes off like a meddling nut.  Dan on steroids.   But he lucked out on a franchise QB.  And unlike Dan he will willing to take a step back in order to take a step forward.  In a weird way, the fact that Haslam is impatient with everyone and doesn't have Dan's social phobias gives him an edge.  Haslam doesn't need a GM to hold his hand in owner meetings and to deal with the public.  So he doesn't depend on anyone. 

 

But Haslam is a nut because he meddles with just about everyone and is never satisfied and will dump some people at the drop of a hat.  I'd still take him over Dan, though.  But if you read that whole article, it doesn't come off like the Browns finally figured it out -- comes off that they are lucky they tanked for Mayfield.  Haslam meddles with his coaches and GM, his finger prints are on everything.  Just saying this because it gives me some juice for my only hope with this team -- some dumb luck in the draft where we land on a franchise guy and win in spite of a dumb owner. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25797430/inside-cleveland-browns-front-office-where-hope-history-collide

 

 

...But then something phenomenal happened, as if cosmic forces had finally aligned in the Browns' favor: The team won five of its final seven games, and it became clear the quarterback was neither a product of his head coach nor a spreadsheet. He was his own strange force, ****y but endearing, raw but gifted. He called Jackson a "fake" on Instagram. He refused to concede an inch to anyone, and his fierce, hungry approach to the game and his world became contagious. After Mayfield led the Browns to an upset over the Falcons in November, he said, "When I woke up this morning, I was feeling pretty dangerous." It became an instant catchphrase around Cleveland, popping up on T-shirts, lifting a city still stinging after LeBron James left for Los Angeles. All of a sudden, it looked as if Jimmy and Dee Haslam had the most important prerequisite to being premier NFL owners -- a franchise quarterback -- and head coach of the Cleveland Browns was again a sought-after job. The Haslams found themselves in an unfamiliar position but with a very familiar challenge before them.

They didn't have to start over.

But they did have to not mess things up.

 

...Several in the room later told associates it felt like a quintessentially dysfunctional Browns draft: team leaders on different pages and bad decisions leading to more bad decisions -- both Gilbert and Manziel would flame out -- with the owner in the middle of it all and his guests as a live audience.

 

...Haslam told other executives he didn't think Farmer was strategic enough in the draft -- an unfair charge, the scouting department felt, given Haslam's fingerprints on personnel decisions. 

 

...The Browns now were breaking the rules and losing, leading to even more public mocking. The outside anger was felt inside the building. Marketing executives wanted employees to see how fans were engaging with the Browns on social media

 

...The executives prepared a document for Haslam titled "Football Strategy Outline"to sell him on a radical rebounding plan based on a few years of pain that could pay off in many years of reward. The idea called for the Browns to tear down to the studs and commit to a four-year rebuild, primarily through the draft, mixing sabermetrics and traditional methods -- similar in many ways to Banner's original vision. The group visited Theo Epstein of the Chicago Cubs, Sam Presti of the Oklahoma City Thunder, Mark Shapiro of the Toronto Blue Jays and Paul DePodesta of the New York Mets. Haslam asked the majority of the questions. One exec told him that if he were to commit to the plan, he should "not go to any games for two years."

Haslam seemed sold.

 

...THE BROWNS ADOPTED a plan to lose and then warred over whether the team lost too much. The front office felt the team would win four or five games in 2016; some coaches felt it could even be seven or eight. The team went 1-15, and the lines were drawn.

 

...Haslam told the front office he was pleased with the drafts and free agency but also seemed torn, wanting a heavyweight football name at the helm. He had gone from a nontraditional hire in Banner to a lifelong scout in Farmer and then swung back to an unorthodox pick in Brown. Now he wanted to swing the other way. On Dec. 7, Haslam entered Brown's office and fired him. According to people who saw him afterward, Haslam looked frayed when he exited the meeting, knowing he'd gone back on his word to Brown. Friends around the league urged Haslam to start over clean and fire Jackson too, but he refused. Dorsey was hired as GM that same day. The Browns were starting over again, with another arranged marriage between coach and GM.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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16 hours ago, wunderhill said:

Tried that with Lafema and crew..fired in less than a year because he didnt like what they were telling him.

 

He was a COO that handled the business side of things, not a designated consultant for the entire organization and I'm unsure where you found the information as to why he was fired.

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2 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Yeah, but it is irrelevant.

 

Whether they asked weak, softball questions or tough hard-nosed questions, Allen would've given the same answers either way.

 

Most of these answers were prepared, canned, and stocked in advance. Filled with coachspeak redundancy, and evasive PR shinola.

 

It wouldn't have made a difference.

 

Thats fine but these gutless cowards go on the radio and write articles for their companies where they wave a big stick and crush the organization

 

then they get to sit down with the guy that’s supposedly the leader of it all, and the main problem, and they show themselves to be gutless cowards. 

 

Its just like like how every time it falls apart these same people take to the air/paper and proclaim how they knew about this all along etc etc, but none of them said a word about any of it in the preceding months. 

 

They're phonies. Talk big and bad, but tuck their tail when it’s time to do something about it. 

Edited by tshile
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Talent at QB and coach trumps all in most cases. 

 

Imagine if the Patriots drama of last few seasons:

 

 (Brady and Bill B disliking one another, Brady’s trainer situation, Bill B and owner disagreeing on Jimmy G— owner eventually overrides the coach to keep Brady/trade JimmyG, Edelman suspended PEDs, Gronkowski trade to Lions agreed to— Gronk refuses and threatens retirement, Josh Gordon coming and leaving team within 6 months)

 

were present with this average Redskins team of last few years. They’d get eaten alive. 

 

 

Edited by wit33
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For those of you who have not yet heard about it.  Snyder stays busy with non-Redskins stuff such as competing with Jerry Jones for who has the largest and most costly yacht.  This allows Bruce to have free reign in turning the team into a dumpster fire.   The Danny recently bought a 305 ft. super-yacht which includes a 12 seat IMAX theater and a helicopter landing pad which cost approximately $150 million dollars while  Jerry Jones has a 358 foot super-yacht he purchased for $250 million.

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1 hour ago, mike42 said:

 

He was a COO that handled the business side of things, not a designated consultant for the entire organization and I'm unsure where you found the information as to why he was fired.

I stand corrected, it must have been because Dan loved what he was telling him. He was reaching out to the fans, he was trying to bring respectability to at least some of the "entire organization".  So, if Dan wouldn't allow someone to handle a portion of the organization, what makes you think he will let someone handle the entire thing, oh wait..he has and does..his name is Bruce Allen. 

One other thing. if we had an owner that would speak to the fans and explain why certain people were let go or the direction the organization wants to go we wouldn't have to speculate. 

Edited by wunderhill

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2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

@Bang, we need a Dan/Bruce cartoon asap. 👍

I'll see what i can do

 

meanwhile, the podcast is always a hoot www.bangradiohour.com

 

this is the show open from sometime in december.. 

 

~Plug

Edited by Bang
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13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Another good editorial but following the FireBruceAllen movement -- Barry has nothing to fear, everyone gets Dan is the top problem.  But one hurdle at a time.  I'd have no issue with a selltheteam movement which is more on point.  There are very few people if any that are anti-Bruce but pro Dan or even neutral about Dan. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins-fans-are-furious-with-bruce-allen-and-thats-just-how-dan-snyder-like-it/2019/01/23/a738c7a8-1f28-11e9-8e21-59a09ff1e2a1_story.html?utm_term=.51b04689049b

 

Bruce Allen is part of the problem. But he’s a symptom, not a cause.

 

I was just about to post this myself. Great Op-Ed by Svrluga and he's absolutely on point: Allen's a symptom of a much bigger and systemic disease within the organization.

 

As far as those theories go, it hardly matters to me which one (or if either one) is correct. The results, on and off the field, have spoken for themselves. I don't deny his desire to build a winning team but I do doubt his desire to create a winning i. That winning culture includes fanbase and community engagement. That's not to discount the work the team's foundation does or the time players take to reach out to local schools and charities but with the hole the team's dug itself into, they're going to have to do more than what's become "industry standard" for community outreach. The litany of stories from decades long season ticket holders bailing out didn't come out of nowhere and it isn't only because the team's mediocre play.

 

We all know there's a laundry list of PR snafus committed by the organization and Dan Snyder himself that can't just be waved away as "the media's agenda" and "fake news." Bruce Allen, at this point, is a useful stooge.

 

"Let him take some of the heat At least I can say I'm more hands off off now." 

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Unfortunately the last 20 years for this team has been about winning off the field.  What a great marketing term for Allen to embrace the next time he does a press conference in 2020.

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54 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Talent at QB and coach trumps all in most cases. 

 

Imagine if the Patriots drama of last few seasons (Brady and Bill B disliking one another, Brady’s trainer situation, Bill B and owner disagreeing on Jimmy G— owner eventually overrides the coach to keep Brady/trade JimmyG, Edelman suspended PEDs, Gronkowski trade to Lions agreed to— Gronk refuses and threatens retirement, Josh Gordon coming and leaving team within 6 months were present with this average Redskins team of last few years. They’d get eaten alive. 

 

 

 

I am in a way a mile away from your point but also close on it all at the same time.  I am a mile from it in the sense that I don't think other successful ownership-FO structures have any similarity to this team's dysfunction.  Yes weird things happen to every team but am talking about the owner and GM shepherding it and doing so a lot.   And I do think Dan and Bruce are incompetent and don't know how to build a winning culture if it smacked them in the face.  But I do agree if there is one thing which can overcome it, its stumbling on good luck and finding a franchise QB.

 

Steinbrenner's form of dysfunction kept the Yankees from the playoffs for almost 15 years -- that's not easy to do in baseball where you got no salary cap.  But then the dude was suspended from baseball for two years, Gene Michael rebuilt the farm season in some of that time and they stumbled on a series of high end prospects and then went on a big run. 

 

I don't rule out likewise dumb luck kicking in. So am not in the camp that we are doomed forever as some others think here.   The Browns owner from that article's description is a hot mess.  But even so he still comes off smarter than Dan in the sense that he keeps trying new things and can handle himself socially better.  And most importantly, he subscribed to doing a reboot -- 3 steps back to take 6 steps forward.  Dan can't emotionally handle that apparently.  

 

 

17 minutes ago, thebluefood said:

 

I was just about to post this myself. Great Op-Ed by Svrluga and he's absolutely on point: Allen's a symptom of a much bigger and systemic disease within the organization.

 

As far as those theories go, it hardly matters to me which one (or if either one) is correct. The results, on and off the field, have spoken for themselves. I don't deny his desire to build a winning team but I do doubt his desire to create a winning i. That winning culture includes fanbase and community engagement. That's not to discount the work the team's foundation does or the time players take to reach out to local schools and charities but with the hole the team's dug itself into, they're going to have to do more than what's become "industry standard" for community outreach. The litany of stories from decades long season ticket holders bailing out didn't come out of nowhere and it isn't only because the team's mediocre play.

 

We all know there's a laundry list of PR snafus committed by the organization and Dan Snyder himself that can't just be waved away as "the media's agenda" and "fake news." Bruce Allen, at this point, is a useful stooge.

 

"Let him take some of the heat At least I can say I'm more hands off off now." 

 

The reason why I can't let Bruce off the hook is he's put his own special stamp on the dysfunction.  He comes across publicly just about every ounce of his image behind the scenes.  A lot of people would have to be wrong for it to be all Dan and Bruce is just carrying out his orders -- that would include every beat reporter who covers the team, FO insiders, Scot's camp, Kirk's camp, national reporters. They'd all be wrong.   Also, conversely, when Vinny was here, it was said to death by people who had some insider info that Dan was controlling Vinny and was meddling a lot.  And heck even specific stories would leak.   So its not like there is some history where insiders were fooled on this narrative one way or another.  Having said that I can't rule it out. 

 

The narrative now seems to be more of less that Bruce is running the show and he loves running the show and is drunk (sounds like sometimes literally) with power.  Dan does still sometimes meddle but nowhere as much as he used to.  But Dan is still the lead dance with the toxic culture there.  And to me its the culture that's the bigger deal for why his team has mostly stunk during his tenure much more so than his meddling.    Bruce adds to the toxic culture via his own Machiavellian dog eat dog style.

 

I was listening to Sheehan and Philips talk about this and they more or less say they hear and it feels like this:  Bruce thinks they are killing it.  He's done a great job.  And that's what he's feeding Dan and giving him the impression about how close they are to major success.  They think most of the fans discontent is about having such high standards for the team that we can't emotionally handle the 7-9 record.   And they shrug off the off the field crap as meaningless.   It's all about the record and every season is judged in a vacuum that way.   I'd say that I can relate to that rap since its a variation of the same narrative I sometimes debate with the rare FO defender here.  

 

The defense is usually a variation of hey 7-9 is mediocre, its not terrible.  The Cardinal fans should have the sky is falling rap and angst not Redskins fans.  And heck that 7-9 record is phony anyway.  We got robbed in one of those games and the rest of the issue last season was injuries.   We are on the right track.  Fans will settle down once we take the division next season.  The only thing I like about that rap is as Phillips goes, they better win next season otherwise they are setting themselves up for a fall with fans. 

 

My point is removing Bruce might help because the picture painted about him is that he is as arrogant and incompetent as Dan.  And apparently Bruce is feeding into and even helping create Dan's delusion as opposed to working to fix it.

 

My hope is Dan gets lucky and elevates Schaffer and Kyle who at the very least are considered competent and have reputations of being good people.  And maybe that rubs off on Dan or maybe it doesn't.  But its my only hope -- that or stumbling on a franchise QB. 

 

 

 

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