The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Conn]

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Agree, which is why I think Russell running around talking about his interest around the league is nothing more than an attempt to get fans riled up.

 

Or it may have the (unintended?) consequence of making the FO realize he's worth keeping around...with a promotion. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Russell's segment. He said he heard that Schaffer is at the top of the list of an organization to be their team president.

 

So I guess according to him Smith and Schaffer are coveted around the league.

 

Multiple beat guys and national ones have said that the rumor of Bruce being coveted by the Raiders is false with a couple of reporters convinced that the rumor was leaked by Bruce himself to come off like he is in demand.

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Russell's segment. He said he heard that Schaffer is at the top of the list of an organization to be their team president.

 

So I guess according to him Smith and Schaffer are coveted around the league.

 

Multiple beat guys and national ones have said that the rumor of Bruce being coveted by the Raiders is false with a couple of reporters convinced that the rumor was leaked by Bruce himself to come off like he is in demand.

 

 

I would really hate to see both, or either of those guys leave the building....

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I would really hate to see both, or either of those guys leave the building....

[Riggo-toni]

5 hours ago, JCB said:

Riddick would be great, but I think there's a very, very small chance he returns to a franchise he's repeatedly (and correctly) characterized as dysfunctional.

No. Just no. Just hell no...

Riddick is Vinny Bugeyes all over again. That's who he worked for here, and when he left to go to Philthy, he was the very same disaster- the architect of Philly's overpriced underperforming "dream team" that fell flat on its face.

I DETEST Bruce Allen, but let's not replace him with another talentless lackey who will pander to Snyder's worst "big names" instincts. Riddick sucks donkey balls.

[Skinsinparadise]

Todays Sheehan's podcast today, the part with JP Finlay was very interesting.  They both talk about how their sources tell them that Bruce is VERY hands on as to roster decisions and micro manage Jay on that front.  Says it was Bruce who didn't want the D line rotation thing that they did a lot last year and requested that Allen and Payne are kept in the lineup with little substitution.   There was talk that playing Clinton-Dix was maybe driven by the higher ups to perhaps justify the trade hence Nicholson is mostly on the bench.  Finlay said from what he's heard Dan doesn't really meddle with that stuff but Bruce meddles with Jay and the lineup quite a bit. 

 

I've gone back and forth with theories on Bruce and Dan.  And I know a popular theory with some is that Bruce just does Dan's bidding.  I think I am landing on disagreeing on that point. Ditto I disagree with some of Bruce's defenders who think his main role is to be a buffer to Dan's worst instincts.  I'd bet that's true once in awhile but its a minor part of the soup.  The picture that keeps getting painted is Bruce is very hands on with this team and sets the tone a heck of a lot more than Dan.   And Dan lets Bruce do his thing.

 

I've been even more of a sports radio junkie than usual in recent weeks and I've listened to people connected in their own ways to the FO with different sources -- Keim, Paulsen, Russell, M. Jones, JLC, Brewer, Finlay.  The picture that I am getting is Dan really loves himself some Bruce Allen (with Russell being the one giving mixing signals on that point).  He likely doesn't get why the fans don't love him, too.  Dan thinks he's given fans what they want by not meddling and staying out of Bruce's way so Bruce can do his thing -- and heck the results were evident this season if it weren't for those darn injuries. 

 

I am not saying that Bruce is untouchable -- I do think if the season ends poorly in the last two games and the angst is directed Bruce's way -- Dan might let go of his BFF or more likely he would be pressured to do so from the minority owners. 

 

I get the theory that Bruce is Dan's yes man.  But I'll hazard a guess that that theory is wrong and its closer to this -- Danny having a major man crush on the smooth glad handing politician with Redskins pedigree, Bruce Allen -- the dude who according to some makes him comfortable at the owner meetings among other places because he has superior social skills and can network and glad hand the other owners in ways that Dan struggles with.

 

 

 

[Conn]

It makes total sense to me that Dan Snyder is the only guy in the world who is actually convinced by Bruce Allen's slimy politician personality. He probably buys it 100%. And as a guy who has been shown over and over again to be a poor businessman who just got lucky once, I'm not surprised at all. His biggest weakness has almost always been his total inability to identify competent people to delegate to. He does not surround himself with the best at least partially because he has no idea how to identify it. He probably thinks Allen is a stud in his field. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

7 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

It makes total sense to me that Dan Snyder is the only guy in the world who is actually convinced by Bruce Allen's slimy politician personality. He probably buys it 100%. And as a guy who has been shown over and over again to be a poor businessman who just got lucky once, I'm not surprised at all. His biggest weakness has almost always been his total inability to identify competent people to delegate to. He does not surround himself with the best at least partially because he has no idea how to identify it. He probably thinks Allen is a stud in his field. 

Damn, I wish there was something in that post I could argue with, or see silver lining hiding in it.

 

There's a reason we've been a laughingstock franchise for two decades and look like maybe the number one joke of a team in the NFL going forward.

[zCommander]

26 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

It makes total sense to me that Dan Snyder is the only guy in the world who is actually convinced by Bruce Allen's slimy politician personality. He probably buys it 100%. And as a guy who has been shown over and over again to be a poor businessman who just got lucky once, I'm not surprised at all. His biggest weakness has almost always been his total inability to identify competent people to delegate to. He does not surround himself with the best at least partially because he has no idea how to identify it. He probably thinks Allen is a stud in his field. 

 

I posted this in Gruden thread but I think it works here too with what you are saying:

 

In the last 50 years the Steelers have had 3 coaches. They didn't even have a GM until 2011 and that was their head of football operations who got the GM title with the pay bump. How are they hitting SB winning coaches without a GM? This should answer the real questions here. I think a new GM is not going to make a difference, unfortunately.

 

 

 

[bh32]

This could get really ugly for Snyder if he lets either Schaffer or Smith walk to keep Allen here..The fans will just not accept it and Snyder will end up either firing Allen or taking a huge risk of possibly losing the stadium deal due to fans no longer having any interest with the team..

[Skinsinparadise]

the death blow comment was from someone in that FO who is Russell's source.  I gather that comment is painted by the idea that Snyder both needs Schaffer and the PR blow of losing him.    Russell said from what he gathers if Dan had to choose between Schaffer and Bruce -- he'd choose Bruce.   Though Russell is the one covering the FO dynamic who gives a mixed message -- on one front he's the dude who says Dan has been mad at Bruce but on the other front says Dan really likes Bruce too and uses him as a crutch at owners meetings among other things.  but the Dan really digs himself Bruce dynamic is also backed by other guys who cover the team.  I am gathering if the minority owners push Dan to get rid of Bruce, Dan won't be a happy camper to let go of his BFF.  

 

 

 

[OVCChairman]

If Schaeffer and Smith walk in favor of Bruce, I don't know how much more i can take even enjoying this team.  We'd be doomed.  Legit, doomed.  I guess I could hold out hope that my 2 year old daughter may see prosperity from the Redskins at some point in her life.... likely long after i'm coherent enough to enjoy it.  

[FrFan]

Sorry but if Schaffer and Smith are smart they'll leave just like Kyle and Sean

[OVCChairman]

Which is why we need to be promoting them... like yesterday.  They have both been here long enough to know what's going on around here, and they havent left yet.  My personal belief is that for some reason they actually want to be HERE and continue, but i don't think they turn down a promotion with an organization in order to do that.  I'm just going on a hunch with that, as I don't have any real reason WHY they would want to stay, but they have to this point.  Don't mess this up now.  Promote them both and keep them climbing the ladder.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

For all we know, Russell's sources are close to Schaffer.  It makes sense to get it out there that he's a coveted guy.  Also, it doesn't close the possibility that the one team interested in making him their top guy is actually the Redskins.  Wishful thinking for sure.

 

Call me crazy, but it actually wouldn't kill me to let everyone in that building walk and start from scratch, literally.  Who knows how much taint the dysfunction, drama, and all around losing culture has rubbed off on the folks there. 

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

For all we know, Russell's sources are close to Schaffer.  It makes sense to get it out there that he's a coveted guy.  Also, it doesn't close the possibility that the one team interested in making him their top guy is actually the Redskins.  Wishful thinking for sure.

 

Call me crazy, but it actually wouldn't kill me to let everyone in that building walk and start from scratch, literally.  Who knows how much taint the dysfunction, drama, and all around losing culture has rubbed off on the folks there. 

 

Am guessing they are close to Schaffer, that's Russell's man crush.  Some of the 106.7 guys talked about seeing some of the text messages Russell got from people close or in the FO.  The picture I get listening to Russell's segments is:

 

A.  Some people in that FO really don't like Bruce

B.  They think Dan really likes Bruce but has been frustrated at times so there might be a window for him to be booted out

C.  Dan might not understand the degree of how much fans despise Bruce

D.  They really really hope Dan gets the degree of public angst about Bruce and leaks things to Russell among others in part to stir the pot in hopes it gets to Dan

 

For me, I'll take any departure to get rid of Bruce.  My working favorite theory for years has been that Bruce is right now the bigger problem than Dan.  It's not that I think Dan is OK -- he's a train wreck in his own right but I think we are likely dealing with this: 

 

A.  Dan was infatuated with Bruce from afar because of his Redskins lineage.   So he saw the hiring as a coup.  The fact that the hire was well received by media-fans was a fun bonus and confirmed that Bruce is the ticket.

 

B.  Dan was convinced by perhaps even Bruce that he's disliked by fans because of his involvement and it would help to stay out of the way. 

 

C. I think Dan has mostly not meddled.  I do think he has at times meddled like he always does with the position of QB but I've heard enough that his meddling is a fraction of what it used to be -- and I believe that's so.

 

D.  So hey Dan is letting the media's fav guy and fan's guy at the time of the hiring to do his thing -- at first doing so working with Shanny and now on his own.  So we are all still dissatisfied -- what gives?  The media is just negative on the Redskins so they'd turn on anyone and the fans are just fickle -- I'd bet that's the narrative sold to Dan.

 

E.  Bruce and his supporters convince Dan yeah when things go well the fans always turn on the GM and coach.  Just ignore that because we all know this is a great team just derailed by injuries -- the fans might whine all off season -- just like the media did on the Reuben Foster deal as an example -- but eventually they will wear down and give up and we will be vindicated at the end so hang in there. 

 

But yeah I do think this culture and the crap that some of us not having liked of late is sprearheaded by Bruce first and foremost as opposed to it being directives from Dan.   Examples:

 

A.  Beat guys have said the Foster deal was mainly Bruce's idea

B.   As for the badmouthing of Scot out the door -- according to some that was Bruce's doing

C.  the Kirk Cousins acrimonious negotiations -- we've heard to death its Bruce, Bruce, Bruce.  Did we hear anything negative about Schaffer for example in that negotiation -- nope.  It was Bruce centric.

D.  Beat guys have said it was Bruce's idea to make Doug the spokesman with the idea that his rep makes him teflon

E.  the kicker to me was Sheehan's podcast yesterday with Finlay saying Bruce is very hands on with Jay's roster and even involves himself in playing time decisions as for lineups, etc.

F.  Cooley who says is Bruce's friend said on the radio once back when they were "supposedly" looking for a GM to replace Scot -- that Bruce isn't going to give up voluntarily his power to anyone else. 

 

Wow, what a coincidence that Bruce decided Doug was the right guy when Doug told Bruce hey I don't want that power-title -- so clearly Doug had him at hello when he said that.  So he can parade Doug in a phony way as the new personnel guy with a fancier title than before but Bruce retained the power.   

 

Dan is a problem IMO but the idea that Bruce is just some stooge -- i am saying a lot of people would have to be wrong for that to be true.  And this by no means defends Dan, if anything I respect him less to hire a bumbling dude who is polarizing with fans, media, agents and just doesn't understand what it means to the bottom line of the franchise.  I used to think Dan's bigger problem was arrogance as opposed to incompetence.  But I am firmly in the camp of Dan being grossly incompetent and the arrogance is the gravy. 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

I don't want either back and hope Allen goes to the Raiders. If Ron Rivera becomes available that's the play I would make personally. His influence on our defense would be a good thing IMO. I'd like to TRY and pry Ted Thompson away from Green Bay to become our GM and if I were Dan I'd throw a lot of money his way to secure the deal.

[Skinsinparadise]

for those interested this is the podcast where both Sheehan and Finlay mention their sources tell them Bruce is very hands on with roster decisions and is a micro manager on that front where he even gives directives to Jay about playing time for players, etc.     they didn't give many examples of it but Finlay said he's heard that Bruce is very hands on with Jay.

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Let the Redskins explain it and Bruce “has a voice” and everything’s a “team effort”.

[allskinz]

A good start would be "Bruce Allen has been terminated by the Washington Redskins".  I'm so tired of this bumbling buffoon.   We **** can Vinny and end up with his cousin.

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Let me preface this by saying that I have only heard great things about Schaffer and I certainly don't want Allen sticking here longer than he needs to, but...

 

Eric Schaffer has been here through Spurrier, Gibbs, Zorn, Shanahan, and now Gruden. I understand that one man can't undo the dysfunction of several others, but we really don't have any sense for how wonderful he is. I'm sure he's good at his job, but it's not some slam dunk to me that he would be a dynamic and great team president. 

 

Would I prefer that he take over for Allen and have someone like Kyle Smith as GM? Of course. But, part of me is also fine with blasting out everyone and starting fresh in the FO to ensure that no "business-as-usual" mentality persists. 

[Riggo-toni]

Kyle Smith is probably the only person I would be upset if we lost.

 

Bruce Allen would have remained forever unemployed were it not for Shanahan recommending him to Dan, and lobsterman did so for the same reason he hired Haslett - to make sure everyone surrounding him would owe him his job and thus be rendered subservient.

[TK]

Wouldn’t surprise me if Schaffer takes a meeting elsewhere, only to have it at least result in a pay raise here. I say because last year I believe that I was hearing that he wasn’t interested in a GM//President role. 

 

Now, if y’all remember ol Jim Zorn then you’ll know why you don’t want Gruden gone. Zorn wasn’t able to hire his own staff. He inherited coaches  that were still under contract. If Jay gets let go, the next guy in here will be in herating every coach still under contract. 

[FrFan]

3 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

Which is why we need to be promoting them... like yesterday.  They have both been here long enough to know what's going on around here, and they havent left yet.  My personal belief is that for some reason they actually want to be HERE and continue, but i don't think they turn down a promotion with an organization in order to do that.  I'm just going on a hunch with that, as I don't have any real reason WHY they would want to stay, but they have to this point.  Don't mess this up now.  Promote them both and keep them climbing the ladder.  

While I agree, the best thing would be to promote them asap, wouldn't it be in their best interest to use their knowledge/reputation at the right time to get promoted in a non toxic organization ?

[OVCChairman]

18 minutes ago, FrFan said:

While I agree, the best thing would be to promote them asap, wouldn't it be in their best interest to use their knowledge/reputation at the right time to get promoted in a non toxic organization ?

 

Sure it would, but speaking selfishly, i don't root for other teams.  I root for the Redskins.  They're in our building and they're seen as being valuable front office people.  These are the opportunities we need to take advantage of.  If they're offered an elevated position pretty much anywhere other than here, i'd have no hard feelings toward them for them to take it.