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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread


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3 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Bruce Allen should have been fired 4-5 year ago.  If he wasnt fired then, I struggle to see Snyder ever firing him.  Everything he seems to do just seems to be ignored by Snyder, who also has shown by it that he doesnt care about the performance of his franchise.  The only real way I can see it happening is if there is a big enough scandal, where Snyder needs a scapegoat, and then I can see him easily tossing Allen to the wolves.

 

Of course the problem then is we would still have Dan Snyder.  I think the only real hope is attendance and interest gets so bad, it becomes obvious to Snyder that ever year he owns the team its value is going to go down even more, so its in his best interest to sell it now before it gets worse.

 

When I heard earlier in the year that Snyder was selling his house, a part of me held out hope that this was a canary in a coal mine - signalling that he was not doing financially as well as we all assumed and that it was the first step towards him having to unload the team. 

 

A guy can dream...

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1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I can hear "but the Redskins won when Smith was at QB, the losing started once he got hurt" argument already peculating in some people's head already. They will continue to maintain trading for a broken down QB was the smart move. 

 

 

Yeah it was going south with Alex too, 2 loses out of the last 3 and it could have easily been 3 loses in a row -- he and that offense looked bad against arguably the worst defense in the NFL in Tampa but got bailed out by the 4 turnovers.

 

I think they'd have a really hard time selling the fan base about the return of Alex Smith.  I don't think it was a coincidence that the dude didn't sell jerseys from the jump.  There is nothing exciting about the dude aside from him being a really nice guy and it wasn't hard to tell that most of the fans who were excited about him -- lost that zest once they watched him play.  I personally was surprised how "meh" he was.  It is what is is.

 

The organization is in a bind I think if they don't make the playoffs.  They are going to sell Colt in 2019?  The return of Alex from an injury?  I don't think that's going to fix their issues with getting fans in the stands and selling the future.  I think they almost have no choice but to draft a QB -- and even that won't be an easy sell considering you don't really have any sexy names.  Maybe Haskins?  To a lesser degree selling nostalgia with Rypien?

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12 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Planting a guy to assist with marketing is a whole lot different than doing what MLB did with the Dodgers. 

 

I'm not even sure what the league's recourse is if they see a failing franchise and want to "rescue" it from a bad owner like Snyder. 

 

Furthermore, I'm not sure the NFL has something like this even on their radar screen. After all, they made the bone headed decision to let two teams relocate to LA in the same year. How is that working out for the Chargers?

 

 

I get that, but this franchise has the ability to alter the value of the league in a positive if it can develop.  It hasn't sniffed that point in 20 years and things haven't been looking up.  The NFL doesn't necessarily care about wins and losses as much as they care about their bottom line... Having the Redskins make money, makes the NFL money.  I don't think its entirely too far fetched to believe that Lafemina wasn't in the market for a career change... he was a tactical move to boost the value of the team because we're not capable of doing it ourselves.  

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10 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

I get that, but this franchise has the ability to alter the value of the league in a positive if it can develop.  It hasn't sniffed that point in 20 years and things haven't been looking up.  The NFL doesn't necessarily care about wins and losses as much as they care about their bottom line... Having the Redskins make money, makes the NFL money.  I don't think its entirely too far fetched to believe that Lafemina wasn't in the market for a career change... he was a tactical move to boost the value of the team because we're not capable of doing it ourselves.  

 

My understanding is that the Skins are still making money through all of the bottom-of-the-barrel myriad of marketing arrangements Snyder has put in place. That combined with the fact that the league is still a revenue-sharing model amongst all franchises can obscure individual team financial performance. 

 

The only incentive for the league is the reputational damage Snyder has inflicted on what was once a sterling franchise. But again, I don't think Roger Goddell has even a fraction of the vision and love for the league that either Tagliabue or Rozelle had. It's all about the quick buck.

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18 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

When I heard earlier in the year that Snyder was selling his house, a part of me held out hope that this was a canary in a coal mine - signalling that he was not doing financially as well as we all assumed and that it was the first step towards him having to unload the team. 

 

A guy can dream...

 

The only way Bruce leaves is if Snyder sells the team. 

 

It's been reported however hat Snyder has been cash-poor/asset-rich for sometime now.

 

Glass half full, if our team continues to suck and the stadium is only half full with opposing teams fans maybe he'll finally sell?

 

Again I guy can dream. 

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2 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

 

The only way Bruce leaves is if Snyder sells the team. 

 

It's been reported however hat Snyder has been cash-poor/asset-rich for sometime now.

 

Glass half full, if our team continues to suck and the stadium is only half full with opposing teams fans maybe he'll finally sell?

 

Again I guy can dream. 

 

I'm with you, brother!

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1 minute ago, bird_1972 said:

 

That won't solve this franchise's problems. Just a band aid.

 

I don’t totally disagree, but Skins have worked themselves to being middle of pack team for last 4 years. An elite QB goes a long way in getting over being average. Not always a must, but increases your chances to have special seasons. 

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5 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

That won't solve this franchise's problems. Just a band aid.

 


The sad thing is I agree with you, and I actually think it would mask the problems because players can make up for stuff but only so much.  An elite QB instantly makes their team competitive, or at least gives the team the image of being competitive.  Yes you want to be a competitive team every year with a shot at the post season because anything can happen... And no I'm not saying we DON"T want an elite qb (I think you agree with me), but if we truly want to change the dynamic of this team, an elite qb doesn't check all those boxes.  

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Just now, OVCChairman said:

The sad thing is I agree with you, and I actually think it would mask the problems because players can make up for stuff but only so much.  An elite QB instantly makes their team competitive, or at least gives the team the image of being competitive.  Yes you want to be a competitive team every year with a shot at the post season because anything can happen... And no I'm not saying we DON"T want an elite qb (I think you agree with me), but if we truly want to change the dynamic of this team, an elite qb doesn't check all those boxes.  

 

New ownership does.

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1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

I don’t totally disagree, but Skins have worked themselves to being middle of pack team for last 4 years. An elite QB goes a long way in getting over being average. Not always a must, but increases your chances to have special seasons. 

 

Its funny you say middle of the pack.... watching ESPN's advanced stats twitter feed the entire year, they only show the top and worst from whatever stat they post about. The Skins and our players, are literally always middle of the pack, in everything.  And its quite remarkable, our record is 500 over almost any span of games you choose to look at as well. That all said, we need a win tonight to keep that streak alive.

 

It may be wise to have our next coach sorted out before we draft a QB.  Jay is mired in 500 land, and has us competing, just doesn't seem likely to have a long enough leash to oversee the development of our next QB.  Allen will, however.

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33 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Its funny you say middle of the pack.... watching ESPN's advanced stats twitter feed the entire year, they only show the top and worst from whatever stat they post about. The Skins and our players, are literally always middle of the pack, in everything.  And its quite remarkable, our record is 500 over almost any span of games you choose to look at as well. That all said, we need a win tonight to keep that streak alive.

 

It may be wise to have our next coach sorted out before we draft a QB.  Jay is mired in 500 land, and has us competing, just doesn't seem likely to have a long enough leash to oversee the development of our next QB.  Allen will, however.

 

 

This is about as important of a piece of the puzzle as there is.  Now is one of those rare moments where a team can truly re-boot the system and have minimal fallout or overlap.  The worst thing we could possibly do is draft a QB in this draft, THEN fire Jay after next year, THEN fire Bruce after a new HC has been hired.  What I want us to do is move on from Bruce, hire a new GM, let that GM pick his coach, and the two of them pick the QB for the system we will run going forward.  I that takes a year to do, then so be it.  I'm not gonna be happy about it, but we can't put the cart before the horse.    

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19 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

This is about as important of a piece of the puzzle as there is.  Now is one of those rare moments where a team can truly re-boot the system and have minimal fallout or overlap.  The worst thing we could possibly do is draft a QB in this draft, THEN fire Jay after next year, THEN fire Bruce after a new HC has been hired.  What I want us to do is move on from Bruce, hire a new GM, let that GM pick his coach, and the two of them pick the QB for the system we will run going forward.  I that takes a year to do, then so be it.  I'm not gonna be happy about it, but we can't put the cart before the horse.    

Very true, if you are ever going to reboot and give the new guys a real chance, now is the time to do it.  Obviously you have one big roadblock to that, the Smith contract, but maybe he retires?  Regardless, you have, while not a great talent pool, a decent one that a GM can build off of.  You have a lot of draft picks in the next draft.  You have a number of young players on the defensive front that look very promising for the future.  You arent going anywhere with the current staff and theyve been given enough years no one would be unhappy with you firing them.  From a team standpoint, future resources standpoint, and PR standpoint it makes it the easiest time to re-boot without facing 1-15.  You fire everyone, bring in a new GM, who hires a new HC, who then gets to revamp the roster but keep the talent.  

 

But Dan aint gonna do that.

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Cerrato himself said he lost his job because Dan realized that's what the fans wanted.  In one capacity in my job years ago, I worked for a public figure and from that experience -- the difference between actually getting direct communication from people about what they want -- letters, calls, etc versus hearing 2nd hand what people want is night and day.

 

That's my way of saying I do think bombarding Dan with letters, emails, people showing up with signs, etc -- much bigger deal than Dan hearing from some lackey hey I think your dude Bruce isn't popular.  I think there is big difference when fans actually take the time to show their displeasure.   We had that letter campaign thing going at the end of Cerrato's tenue and while I don't think its the be all and end all -- I suspect it helps. 

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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cerrato himself said he lost his job because Dan realized that's what the fans wanted.  In one capacity in my job years ago, I worked for a public figure and from that experience -- the difference between actually getting direct communication from people about what they want -- letters, calls, etc versus hearing 2nd hand what people want is night and day.

 

That's my way of saying I do think bombarding Dan with letters, emails, people showing up with signs, etc -- much bigger deal than Dan hearing from some lackey hey I think your dude Bruce isn't popular.  I think there is big difference when fans actually take the time to show their displeasure.   We had that letter campaign thing going at the end of Cerrato's tenue and while I don't think its the be all and end all -- I suspect it helps. 

 

 

Go Fund me to buy out ad space in Fedex? 

 

Ads that simply have the following in BIG BOLD Red letters on a white background.... "FIRE BRUCE ALLEN"

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18 minutes ago, LMFAO Alex Smith said:

 

 

Go Fund me to buy out ad space in Fedex? 

 

Ads that simply have the following in BIG BOLD Red letters on a white background.... "FIRE BRUCE ALLEN"

 

That would definitely be bold.  But yeah from my experience and peers who also worked for public figures -- the difference between in your face communication and the more passive stuff is insane.  It's much easier to insulate yourself from criticisms if its not at your door or hitting the cameras on TV. 

 

If it's people complaining on a blog -- then hey these guys are never happy just ignore them -- if its on talk radio, ditto and the big bad media is egging them on. 

 

But when they see optics on TV and or their staff says hey we are getting flooded with letters what should we do -- then you are cooking with oil IMO.  Cerrato more or less flat out saying that if Dan notices public discontent it effects him -- that was the kicker as why he lost his job.  So yeah I don't think Bruce is above that.  We thought Cerrato was headed to be here forever, too.

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What I'm curious to see is what happens in all of this come the end of the season. People easily want Bruce fired and that's nothing new. But if that's the case, is it Doug or Smith or Schaffer? And of those three who do we consider the most valuable piece? There have been rumors of Smith being considered for a GM job. I'm not buying in until I see him interviewing because a lot gets thrown out there that adds up to nothing. 

 

But Schaffer has been here longer and has worked wonders with the cap management. Did we luck into Smith because of Bruce's relationship with AJ Smith, or does Bruce/DW/somebody else have a connection or a way of evaluating scouts that makes them confident that they can find another college scout that can do that role well? 

 

Unfortunately, I fear that if we lose Smith we're going to just play a game of musical chairs and simply give the job to somebody else already in our front office. I think that Schaffer's role has kinda become lessened because of our FA philosophy. Maybe its still relevant because of re-signings though. 

 

And ultimately I wonder how the front office feels about working with each other and the current structure. Part of me wonders if Doug is being sly when he goes on these Doc Walker shows because (a) he knows that Bruce doesn't like the media and media appearances from the FO, and (b) most, if not all of the stories that Doug lets out put Bruce in either a neutral light or a negative light, almost never a positive light. 

 - the Smith trade (negative for Bruce)

 - the AP story (negative for Bruce)

 - behind the scenes of the draft (neutral for Bruce because he's not really involved)

 

Now the regular person here says that that's just Bruce being Bruce and Doug is telling the stories as they happened. But I got a positive Bruce vibe when Eric Schaffer went on 1067 with Grant and Danny and talked about the cap management technique that I want to say he learned from Bruce, or at least that Bruce emphasized, and Eric spoke positively of Bruce in that regard. 

 

So I really wonder what the next installment of this FO will be. 

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7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That would definitely be bold.  But yeah from my experience and peers who also worked for public figures -- the difference between in your face communication and the more passive stuff is insane.  It's much easier to insulate yourself from criticisms if its not at your door or hitting the cameras on TV. 

 

If it's people complaining on a blog -- then hey these guys are never happy just ignore them -- if its on talk radio, ditto and the big bad media is egging them on. 

 

But when they see optics on TV and or their staff says hey we are getting flooded with letters what should we do -- then you are cooking with oil IMO.  Cerrato more or less flat out saying that if Dan notices public discontent it effects him -- that was the kicker as why he lost his job.  So yeah I don't think Bruce is above that.  We thought Cerrato was headed to be here forever, too.

 

 

I had no idea that the fans influence lead to cerratos downfall. That is nice to know, thank you for bringing me up to speed on that.

 

These public figures do live in a different world than the majority and often times lose touch with our reality. I can definitely see snyder be the type of person to surround himself with sycophants. 

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16 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

What I'm curious to see is what happens in all of this come the end of the season. People easily want Bruce fired and that's nothing new. But if that's the case, is it Doug or Smith or Schaffer? And of those three who do we consider the most valuable piece? There have been rumors of Smith being considered for a GM job. I'm not buying in until I see him interviewing because a lot gets thrown out there that adds up to nothing. 

 

 

For me Kyle by a mile (he fits the profile that I want in a GM), then Schaffer by a mile over Doug.  I don't mind Doug as a facilitator but I don't like the idea of him heading personnel.

 

16 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

But I got a positive Bruce vibe when Eric Schaffer went on 1067 with Grant and Danny and talked about the cap management technique that I want to say he learned from Bruce, or at least that Bruce emphasized, and Eric spoke positively of Bruce in that regard. 

 

So I really wonder what the next installment of this FO will be. 

 

I recall the conversation about it at the time, I listened to the same interview.  I've heard Bruce by the way do the absolute reverse of this in a different interview (might have been with Sheehan, can't recall) where he said Schaffer is the money guru with the team not him -- this is when the interviewer was giving him a complement.  Schaffer was worshipped going way back to the Vinny era as being one of the shrewdest cap guys in the league.  I don't get the impression that Schaffer has learned much if anything from Bruce but he appreciates the approach Bruce brought to the cap because it matched what he wanted to do on that front and its a 180 from the Vinny years. 

 

Schaffer is also gracious if you hear him speak about everyone.  He even complement Spurrier when asked about him, saying he learned something from everyone including Steve.  He reminds me a lot of how McVay was in that regard -- in interviews here he was mr. sunshine about everyone. 

 

I think just about anyone would be an improvement over Bruce with the caveat that Dan can always surprise and fish out another discarded unemployed personnel guy just like he did with Bruce-Vinny. 

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