The Sisko

General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

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3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Of course she brings up Chicago.  What a ****.

Is there a way we can create an equivalent to Godwin's Law involving this? In any gun debate the odds of a Republican/conservative bringing up Chicago becomes inevitable and means you've lost? 

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1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I'm not a gun expert, but in the video I saw, it sounded like scenes out of Full Metal Jacket. If it wasn't an automatic weapon, then there are 20 other shooters that they aren't telling us about.

 

I'm curious to know the number of bullets fired.

 

I just watched the video of when it started and that sounded like one of three things to me:

 

A guy with a full auto rifle

A guy with a rifle fitted with a bump stock and who knew how to use it well

Many shooters firing simultaneously

 

 

I've heard a binary trigger system before and the shots are not nearly that uniform because the person is still relying on their own finger and fingers get tired and jerky. A bump stock basically just requires you to hold the trigger down with a very specific amount of pressure and understand how to use the system.

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It's like he pastor favorite of the guy who comes in every week asking the lord to help him win the lotto. Finally God speaks to him, "meet me half way and buy a lottery ticket."

 

the last part of the parable is what GOP lawmakers forget about prayer. 

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I understand that a lot of people aren't familiar with a wide range of firearms, maybe hunting rifles or shotguns, maybe a handgun on occasion, but I'd suggest going to YouBoob and looking at some of the videos, that damn sure sounded like full auto to me, and more than just magazine fed.

 

Regardless, yet again we watch and wonder why and wtf?. At some point we as a nation have to act. I seriously doubt you will ever see firearms eliminated, for so many reasons, but just like abusive parenting that for so long everyone turned a blind eye to because "They didn't want to interfere" and " That's their business" or whatever, we need to get past the stigma of calling someone out that is a threat. Society has a right and a duty to intervene if someone is teetering on the edge of this. Overwhelmingly someone somewhere got a whiff of the crazy. Kicking in the door and a 90 day psych eval are NOT the way, maybe something a tad more subtle but how many more times will we see these incidents and just shake our collective heads and move on?

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Just now, AsburySkinsFan said:

Why is more interesting.

I don't care why he did it.  I care about how he did it and how we can prevent this from happening.

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1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't care why he did it.  I care about how he did it and how we can prevent this from happening.

If we ask how then people start asking about how we stop that from being done again.

As long as we talk about why, then there’s no answer other than psychology and philosophical unanswerables.

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9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't get why the big question the media is preoccupied with is why?  Shouldn't it be how?

Why is mystery.  The broad strokes of how are already known, at this point we're just filling in the details.

 

7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't care why he did it.  I care about how he did it and how we can prevent this from happening.

Why is the difference between a single crazy guy and an ISIS inspired attack.  I'm not saying either describes this incident, only pointing out that why matters a great deal.  

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4 hours ago, tshile said:

May i ask where you got this information?


I'm a gun owner and shooter. (two handguns and an AR) Its pretty much common knowledge. Big gun shops will often advertise that they can get your paperwork done with no hassle. Usually to sell suppressors. The toughest part about automatic weapons is that there are only so many available. They are all older weapons originally sold before the ban and grandfathered in. Like a rare muscle car, that means they are expensive. But it's not that uncommon to go to the range and see someone shooting an auto. Let me tell you, when you hear how fast they fire up close where you can feel it, its a pretty scary thing. One second the paper target is whole, the next its in shreds.

Suppressors are the next big thing. Gun nuts are pushing republicans to lift restrictions, making suppressors easily available to anyone without a special license. As a shooter, I would love to have a suppressor on my home defense handgun so I don't blow out my ears if I ever had to use my weapon in self defense. Shooting at the range would be more enjoyable as well. But the rational human being in me says that if this guy had a suppressor on that rifle he may have killed another 50 before anyone knew what was happening.
 

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39 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

It's stupid to claim that you can greatly effect something this large at the micro level (city). It had to be a macro (entire country) change in regulations/laws or the benefit will always be lost. SHS naming Chicago is just perfect since the GOP doesn't fully understand this notion.

 

You really can't blame cities for trying..because it does have some impact. Just no where close to what national level regs would have.

 

Not to mention most guns in circulation in Chicago come from outside the state.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/29/us/where-50000-guns-in-chicago-came-from.html

 

This is really a federal issue.

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2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

People wouldn't know this based on media coverage, but we Americans are perfectly good at killing ourselves without outside help.  The amount of murder/domestic terrorism dwarfs any foreign involvement.

 

Thank you for pointing this out. Apparently Trump is totally oblivious to this fact and must stop Muslims from getting into the country. 

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20 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Why is more interesting.


I agree. The how is easy. 

I've been following this story closely, trying to make sense of it all. At first I thought of the target and thought maybe it was political, country music fans are often republicans and have a lot of Trump supporters. But no clear political ties have shown up. No religious affiliation either. And now I hear he was a country music fan. (unconfirmed by me). So if not politics, if not religion.  Why?

As crazy as it sounds, my working theory (probably destroyed by the fact he had 100 or so loaded magazines):

The guy was a gun collector and next week there is a huge gun show in LV. He brought all those guns to sell or trade. (evan a crazy shooter would know you don't need all of those guns)  So he gets there a week early to party and do some gambling. Maybe even take in the country music show. So he goes gambling and gets himself deeper and deeper into debt.  He freaks because he's blown all of his money so he gets drunk and goes to the show where he acts up, pisses people off and gets himself thrown out. He's lost everything, drunk, angry and has a target sitting below his hotel room...

Pure speculation of course but I cant help but think that it could be something that simple and that crazy.

9 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

Not to mention most guns in circulation in Chicago come from outside the state.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/29/us/where-50000-guns-in-chicago-came-from.html

 

This is really a federal issue.


Yup. From gun shows, where criminals can operate openly.

 

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1 hour ago, Springfield said:

Of course she brings up Chicago.  What a ****.

What's the problem with bringing up Chicago as an example of why "gun control" laws are unsuccessful? Unless the point is that the laws must be much stricter in order to actually make a difference... Regardless, Chicago continually proves the right wing's point that bad people will get guns if/when they want them. 

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50 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I just watched the video of when it started and that sounded like one of three things to me:

 

A guy with a full auto rifle

A guy with a rifle fitted with a bump stock and who knew how to use it well

Many shooters firing simultaneously

 

 

I've heard a binary trigger system before and the shots are not nearly that uniform because the person is still relying on their own finger and fingers get tired and jerky. A bump stock basically just requires you to hold the trigger down with a very specific amount of pressure and understand how to use the system.



Absolutely correct on the binary system. That was an absolute steady rate of fire with multiple magazines. I was all set to swear a bump fire could not fire that fast but a quick check of youtube proved me wrong. Sort of. I still think a real auto weapon fires faster and more consistently and that's what it sounded like to me.

 

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9 minutes ago, CTskin said:

What's the problem with bringing up Chicago as an example of why "gun control" laws are unsuccessful? Unless the point is that the laws must be much stricter in order to actually make a difference... Regardless, Chicago continually proves the right wing's point that bad people will get guns if/when they want them. 

 

The problem with bringing up Chitown is that its frequently used as a argument as to why more laws are useless and may make things worse. That's is, obviously, a lie. And only a little research will tell you that many of the guns used in Chi are obtained in the surrounding areas that have comparatively lax gun laws. I didn't hear what she said so I cant pick it apart, but I can understand being exasperated at bringing them up - again - when its normally not done with any kind of truth or responsibility. 

 

Trying to prove the right wings point doesn't help. Trying to prove the lefts point doesn't help. Solve the problem. Don't use the same old arguments; we just lost 60 more people to a problem we refuse to fix because we always try to prove one side is right. 

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13 minutes ago, CTskin said:

What's the problem with bringing up Chicago as an example of why "gun control" laws are unsuccessful? Unless the point is that the laws must be much stricter in order to actually make a difference... Regardless, Chicago continually proves the right wing's point that bad people will get guns if/when they want them. 


NO IT DOES NOT. 

 

It proves that lax federal laws on the sale of guns at gun shows undermine anything any state can do because criminals can cross state lines and purchase trunk loads of weapons at a gun show.

 

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2 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

The World view of America under O: Great respect. 

 

The World view of America under the wiggy moron: Complete laughing stock tinged with absolute, constant fear of what scary World carnage he might well lead everyone into.  

 

Again, far from true. 

Then, sounds more like fear than laughter. 

Moron is an unfair judgement especially from an outsider with a fake monarchy. Call him a buffoon, that seems more fitting. 

 

1 hour ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

IF that was not automatic gun fire heard in those videos I won’t post for a week.

That WAS automatic.

 

Again, no confirmation. 

 

Listen at the 11:20 mark or so ( fired at several parts of the video however). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVJHVqgXRVI

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8 minutes ago, CTskin said:

What's the problem with bringing up Chicago as an example of why "gun control" laws are unsuccessful? Unless the point is that the laws must be much stricter in order to actually make a difference... Regardless, Chicago continually proves the right wing's point that bad people will get guns if/when they want them. 

 

So does US History with prohibition and the drug war. Once something desirable is introduced to the population, bans only serve to create black markets and thus more crime. 

 

What the right wing misses, however, is that just because control didn't work doesn't mean that it can't work. Instead of poitning out where it hasn't worked, WHY it hasn't worked should be looked at and seen if it can be fixed. 

 

Since mental health seems to usually be the root cause of mass shootings here, then a good first step would be to do what they've done with alcohol and create programs and awareness for mental health. There are AA programs all over the place. We need similar for mental health issues. Another big help would be to mandate all health insurance companies cover therapy so it's like a regular doctor visit. So far every one of these mass shootings it seems mental health is a concern, even gets brought up, yet the political morons butt in and ruin that conversation by turning it into another pointless, tractionless gun control debate.

 

In fact, the absolute BEST solution that can be implemented right now, and it will do a ton of good all over the place for countless issues, is for people to wake the hell up and demand an end to the toxic, divisive culture that American politics has created. 

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I was just in Chicago two weeks ago.  What an awesome city.  People were out on the streets day and night, along the lakefront, in the parks and museums and theaters and restaurants, having a great time.   

 

It's amazing how half the country has been conned into thinking that Chicago is some sort of post-apocalyptic hellhole. 

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24 minutes ago, CTskin said:

What's the problem with bringing up Chicago as an example of why "gun control" laws are unsuccessful? Unless the point is that the laws must be much stricter in order to actually make a difference... Regardless, Chicago continually proves the right wing's point that bad people will get guns if/when they want them. 

 

I'm not sure how "strict" the laws need to be.  The biggest thing is they need to be uniform across the country.  This state-by-state, town-by-town regulation can never be anything but a complete failure.   

 

Which is why the gun manufacturers and the NRA oppose so heavily any efforts at federal involvement in gun control.  Bad for business.  

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