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General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)


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3 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Are you being serious?

 

Here's what I remind folks, when I was in Basic Training in the Army we literally spent weeks shooting our M16's EVERY DAY. Over 1,000 rounds down range ALL on semi-auto single shot. You know how many times I shot my M16 on full auto?

1.....1 time 30 rounds, at night.

So you tell me, how was the Army training ME a soldier to kill human beings with my M16? On full auto spray and pray, or one shot one kill, quick target acquisition semi-auto combat?

So if the US Army gave ME that assault rifle (because apparently the full auto capability is what the idiots insist is needed for that designation) yet they trained me to use my M16 as if it were an AR15 then you tell me the difference.

 

This is one of those things I have to be careful what I say because I didn't live it.  But that makes too much GD sense.  You just made a case I've been struggling to wrap my head around, this idea that because its not fully automatic its not the same.  It really doesn't matter, and it makes total sense for people being trained to kill to be trained to save ammo and be efficient with their shooting.  You just changed my opinion on something.

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How is it, in the great commonwealth of Virginia, that an 18 year old can’t walk into a gas station and buy a pack of Marlboro reds but he can walk into a Cabela’s and walk out with an AR-15.

 

This is how little we value people’s lives and how self-centered we are as a society.

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2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is one of those things I have to be careful what I say because I didn't live it.  But that makes too much GD sense.  You just made a case I've been struggling to wrap my head around, this idea that because its not fully automatic its not the same.  It really doesn't matter, and it makes total sense for people being trained to kill to be trained to save ammo and be efficient with their shooting.  You just changed my opinion on something.

The auto setting is for suppressive fire, keeping the enemy's head down while you move. Our mantra was ALWAYS one shot one kill, and our targets were spaced alternating 50 yard to 300 yards. And only one guy out of 60 failed to hit at least half of the pop-up targets. And most of them were ****ing idiots.

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15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is one of those things I have to be careful what I say because I didn't live it.  But that makes too much GD sense.  You just made a case I've been struggling to wrap my head around, this idea that because its not fully automatic its not the same.  It really doesn't matter, and it makes total sense for people being trained to kill to be trained to save ammo and be efficient with their shooting.  You just changed my opinion on something.

This is one of the coolest things I've read in a long time. Thank you.

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56 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

The auto setting is for suppressive fire, keeping the enemy's head down while you move. Our mantra was ALWAYS one shot one kill, and our targets were spaced alternating 50 yard to 300 yards. And only one guy out of 60 failed to hit at least half of the pop-up targets. And most of them were ****ing idiots.

Exactly. I remember one of our instructors telling us that the military had done research and found that only some small percentage of the first round fired in full auto mode actually hit the target so accurate, aimed fire was always preferred. Even when we learned the M-60 and SAW, the emphasis was on small burst fire rather than spraying rounds everywhere.

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1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

What exactly is an assault rifle?

 

To me I would define it as any rifle capable of semi-auto fire. 

 

You don't need semi-auto for hunting deer or target shooting, sorry.   Semi-auto was designed to maximize military effectiveness, which is to neutralize (kill or seriously wound) enemy soldiers. 

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9 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

To me I would define it as any rifle capable of semi-auto fire. 

 

You don't need semi-auto for hunting deer or target shooting, sorry.   Semi-auto was designed to maximize military effectiveness, which is to neutralize (kill or seriously wound) enemy soldiers. 

High capacity is another factor. Some shotguns have semi-auto capability, but the law limits them to three shells, two plugged, one chambered. Being able to draw on 30 rounds combined with the semi-auto ability is what transforms a hunting rifle into an assault weapon. That and the ammo, the 5.56 is a HORRIBLE hunting round it hits and directs wildly in the body to create as much damage as possible. A hunting round is designed to penetrate and stay together so you can use the meat. 

20 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

Exactly. I remember one of our instructors telling us that the military had done research and found that only some small percentage of the first round fired in full auto mode actually hit the target so accurate, aimed fire was always preferred. Even when we learned the M-60 and SAW, the emphasis was on small burst fire rather than spraying rounds everywhere.

Without a doubt, once you go over three on any of them you're off target. Even in a controlled training session it's still very hard to keep on point. If you're using extended feeds then you walk the rounds into the target, even still it's about spray and pray. The M16 and AR's are designed for rapid fire single shot kills.

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36 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

High capacity is another factor.

Capacity is the biggest factor IMO. Limit all guns to six shots max and mass murders become much more difficult to pull off.

 

I'd like to see stricter licensing standards and different legal zones that differentiate between rural and urban areas.  One size doesn't fit all on this issue.  A farmer dealing with hogs on his property doesn't have the same needs as a urban condo dweller concerned about a rise in crime in his neighborhood. 

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Have we discussed the Dayton Ohio shooters politics yet?  

 

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

Quote

Connor Betts, the Dayton, Ohio mass shooter, was a self-described “leftist,” who wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.”

 

Betts’ Twitter profile read, “he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / i’m going to hell and i’m not coming back.” One tweet on his page read, “Off to Midnight Mass. At least the songs are good. #athiestsonchristmas.” The page handle? I am the spookster. On one selfie, he included the hashtags, “#selfie4satan #HailSatan @SatanTweeting.” On the date of Republican Sen. John McCain’s death, he wrote, “F*ck John McCain.” He also liked tweets referencing the El Paso mass shooting in the hours before Dayton.

 

Twitter has now suspended the Twitter page, removing it. It was up for several hours after the mass shooting.

 

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10 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

 

Was mentioned about a page ago. Sounds like an incel loser rather than a white nationalist. 

 

 

I’m not terribly surprised an eventual mass murderer kept kill lists and seemed threatening.  That he had female friends and was actively trying to get a date doesn’t sound like incel behavior.  Those losers seem mostly trapped in their own delusion, that the world dislikes them because they aren’t pretty enough.  Could be though, who knows.  

 

Mass murderers, given the chance, probably all find some group of lunatics.  Especially now that the Internet makes it so easy.  Even if it’s just 8chan or something similar, it’s never been easier for crazies to find others.  

 

 

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Magazine capacity would be something to be looked at.   However it takes all of 2-3 seconds for an experienced shooter to eject and slap in a new mag so its not much of a barrier.  For a revolver using a speed loader, its a little more like 4-5. 

 

Also, its not  hard to homebrew high capacity magazines.  Granted they are somewhat crude and unreliable.  But for someone going on a killing spree, they only need to work once.

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3 hours ago, Destino said:

Have we discussed the Dayton Ohio shooters politics yet?  

 

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

 

His sister and her boyfriend were killed in the attack, I was guessing this was relationally motivated. With the rightful attention the White Nationalists are getting it's wrong to assume that mass shootings are perpetrated only by the Right. Yes they are like 80% of them but 20% have other motivations.

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1 hour ago, DCSaints_fan said:

Magazine capacity would be something to be looked at.   However it takes all of 2-3 seconds for an experienced shooter to eject and slap in a new mag so its not much of a barrier.  For a revolver using a speed loader, its a little more like 4-5. 

 

Also, its not  hard to homebrew high capacity magazines.  Granted they are somewhat crude and unreliable.  But for someone going on a killing spree, they only need to work once.

In experienced hands, yes reloading speed can be cut down. However, most of these guys aren't experienced. The El Paso shooter had what looks like a 30+ round magazine. That's 10 reloads with reduced cap mags. The Dayton shooter was active for less than a minute and if he was forced to reload that casualty rate would have been dramatically cut. In Kentucky every hunter knows that your gun better be loaded with only three rounds, why? Because fish & game don't like the idea of rampaging hunters throwing 30 rounds down range. But, people hunting? The more lead the more fun.

 

Thank god the NRA worked tirelessly for our right to cut down as many people as possible in the shortest time possible.

Edited by AsburySkinsFan
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8 hours ago, tshile said:

Probably a bad time/place to be arguing the assault rifle thing

 

My point wasn't to argue what is.  I'm tired of that anyways.  But no one even agrees on a definition.  That's why I get frustrated when everyone yells about banning them.  It's a tag line.  (Also, there is a more appropriate thread for this).

 

8 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Are you being serious?

 

Here's what I remind folks, when I was in Basic Training in the Army we literally spent weeks shooting our M16's EVERY DAY. Over 1,000 rounds down range ALL on semi-auto single shot. You know how many times I shot my M16 on full auto?

1.....1 time 30 rounds, at night.

So you tell me, how was the Army training ME a soldier to kill human beings with my M16? On full auto spray and pray, or one shot one kill, quick target acquisition semi-auto combat?

So if the US Army gave ME that assault rifle (because apparently the full auto capability is what the idiots insist is needed for that designation) yet they trained me to use my M16 as if it were an AR15 then you tell me the difference.

 

 

8 hours ago, abdcskins said:

 

A big ass gun that can shoot many bullets and kill many people. Is that specific enough? I wasn't trying to write a bill.

 

7 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

To me I would define it as any rifle capable of semi-auto fire. 

 

You don't need semi-auto for hunting deer or target shooting, sorry.   Semi-auto was designed to maximize military effectiveness, which is to neutralize (kill or seriously wound) enemy soldiers. 

 

To all (And this is as much to all the talking heads and candidates): I'm not trying to argue with you over a definition.  I was pointing out that everyone has a different opinion.  So when saying we must ban a certain type of weapon, "you" need to offer more substance.  Also, we should all remember there is a gun control thread.

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