No Excuses Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: Bezos is no dummy. I think Canada is out ... the backlash in the U.S. from the Trump fringe may not come to fruition or be all that powerful, but anytime you cut out 25% of your home-base and potential revenue, IDK. I guess it truly depends on how "global" Amazon wants to become. Obviously that's their goal, but going to Toronto would isolate some of the US market after Trump goes out and destroys the company for being "un American" Trumpkins really aren't this principled. Rural america isn't Amazon's prime target anyways. Amazon services in Canada aren't up to par with what the US gets. They have a huge open market just waiting for them across the border. Google is already beginning to take advantage of this and Amazon should as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Austin makes sense, Whole Foods global HQ was there, and now that Bezos has bought it, it might make sense to have that next center there. Sort of central, close to Houston ports, pretty mild weather (except for summer), on I-35 for north-south distribution, near I-10 to the south, I-20 and 40 to the north. Lots of land to the east side of I-35 toward Pflugerville or north toward Round Rock (BTW love that name, so Texas sounding). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Well if they came to the DMV it would just be business as usual. The traffic here is already among the country's worst, and Amazon would be a prime candidate to receive the best talent this area already has to offer. Even if someone doesn't land a job there, other companies already here who are Amazon's competition in the IT Cloud Database industry would be more competitive in either keeping their talent or getting replacements. It's a win-win if you ask me. I do wonder why a city like Detroit hasn't been mentioned yet. Housing for employees and land for Amazon would be dirt cheap and it's an urban area. Detroit should be all over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Gamebreaker said: I do wonder why a city like Detroit hasn't been mentioned yet. Housing for employees and land for Amazon would be dirt cheap and it's an urban area. Detroit should be all over this. They probably are. And I'm of the mindset that if you haven't heard of it publicly and it makes sense, it exists and the jurisdiction(s) are keeping it quiet because it's a legitimate deal. Not to say some of the more publicized ones aren't legit, but I've got to imagine Detroit and Michigan put at least a few of the 248 proposals together and make a compelling case behind close doors. Same with sites here locally. At the end of the day, it's going to come down to where Amazon feels they can find the best employees to grow the company in the way envisioned for the best value/cost. Maybe Detroit is that, or maybe it isn't. If Amazon is 100% confident that they could build a city in the desert and they'd attract the top candidates to move to the desert island to work for Amazon then they'd probably drop 8m square feet in the desert somewhere on virtually free land. They've got to be a certain level of confident, but I'm sure dropping into a city that already has the talent or at least a strong pipeline for future talent (IE universities) is important and mitigates some of their risk. Also helps to have a good quality of life location so that once people are working for you on site, they enjoy living and playing etc where you are. Detroit probably doesn't check those 2 boxes right now, though they certainly could and would IF Amazon located there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 On 10/17/2017 at 10:00 AM, PleaseBlitz said: Having a lot of successful companies in a relatively small area, and the attendant good jobs and civic facilities and services, is like the entire point of a city existing. People that hate traffic as much as you do are free to stay on your dirt roads. I was in Savannah last week enjoying a bowl of shrimp and grits at a local place, and thought "what this city really needs is a behemoth tech company to come in and dominate local policy and politics, change the local culture to their liking, and unleash 50000 uncultured millenial zombies on the place with their Priuses and sensitivity." I also remember my time in Bruges, Belgium... they could use some of that too. They would be thrilled ****less to have that kind of prosperity, Im sure. We can disagree but dont tell me that sucking off tech company douchebags and their armies of uncultured, no character, conformist zombies who work there is "the reason for a city to exist". Its funny that the same posters who whine about corporate welfare are the same ones in this thread hoping amazon chooses them. **** off amazon and go somewhere else... thats what i say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 DC wouldn't surprise me because AWS is already in Herndon, Bezos has a home and the amount of talent Raleigh is really coming strong with its bid. Plenty of land lots of talent, less traffic and expense compared to DC and the city is really on the rise. Austin? I think Texas just refuses to believe in public transportation. I love Austin and it would be a great fit, but the already getting bad Austin traffic will be that much worse. Dallas I can see. Atlanta also fits except GA doesn't like public trans either 1 minute ago, zoony said: Its funny that the same posters who whine about corporate welfare are the same ones in this thread hoping amazon chooses them. **** off amazon and go somewhere else... thats what i say 2 Agree, agree, agree. Contiual race to the bottom. Localities should continue to invest in infrastructure and having an educated population, vs blowing billions on luring companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 minute ago, SkinsHokieFan said: DC wouldn't surprise me because AWS is already in Herndon, Bezos has a home and the amount of talent Raleigh is really coming strong with its bid. Plenty of land lots of talent, less traffic and expense compared to DC and the city is really on the rise. Austin? I think Texas just refuses to believe in public transportation. I love Austin and it would be a great fit, but the already getting bad Austin traffic will be that much worse. Dallas I can see. Atlanta also fits except GA doesn't like public trans either Pretty spot on observations there. I honestly think your "bells and whistles" proposals are going to come from DC/NoVa, Boston, NYC, Chicago ... where the quality of the buildings/location/talent are all going to be top notch. BUT, even with incentive $$ behind them, those are going to be high cost areas to operate ... some more than others due to tax climate, but just from a pure real estate/lease cost. So if cost isn't a huge driving force and they want a truly iconic/visible corporate location then those areas will fit the bill nicely. If they want to go low-cost as much as possible and still have access, then Charlotte, Atlanta, Austin, etc. probably make more sense. BUT in those cities you're getting much less infrastructure from a transportation standpoint. So there are trade-offs. I think Baltimore is uniquely positioned to land this deal. Future transportation along the i95 corridor could make Baltimore an attractive location, and they could tap DC, Philly, NYC talent markets if high-speed rail is in play in the next decade or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 Nice touch... recruiting other companies to Little Rock http://fortune.com/2017/10/19/amazon-headquarters-hq2-little-rock/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, zoony said: I was in Savannah last week enjoying a bowl of shrimp and grits at a local place, and thought "what this city really needs is a behemoth tech company to come in and dominate local policy and politics, change the local culture to their liking, and unleash 50000 uncultured millenial zombies on the place with their Priuses and sensitivity." I feel like you have this exact thought about everything, at all times during every day. UGH MILLENIAL ZOMBIES. NOT REAL PEOPLE WITH LIFE GOALS WORTHY OF RECOGNITION AS PEOPLE. ALSO, PRIUSES. Quote I also remember my time in Bruges, Belgium... they could use some of that too. They would be thrilled ****less to have that kind of prosperity, Im sure. You've been to Bruges? YOU ARE SO CULTURED OMG! Not sure adding Amazon to a foreign city of 100,000 with no economy outside of tourism was advocated by anyone, but nice hyperbole. 10/10. Quote We can disagree but dont tell me that sucking off tech company douchebags and their armies of uncultured, no character, conformist zombies who work there is "the reason for a city to exist". Its funny that the same posters who whine about corporate welfare are the same ones in this thread hoping amazon chooses them. **** off amazon and go somewhere else... thats what i say Again with the dehumanization. And yes, I disagree with you that city's exist for reasons other than for people to live and prosper in them. Calling city-dwelling people "uncultured" and with "no character" when the alternative is rural folk is Trumpian. Not sure who you are referencing with your corporate welfare "point." I pointed out earlier in this thread that whatever a city gives to Amazon as inducement for them to choose that city, the city will get FAR more in return. But that is an economics argument, so perhaps you would feel more comfortable if i just noted that Amazon isn't coming to rural Tennessee, so you aren't really in any danger of having Mayberry become notable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 28 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I feel like you have this exact thought about everything, at all times during every day. UGH MILLENIAL ZOMBIES. NOT REAL PEOPLE WITH LIFE GOALS WORTHY OF RECOGNITION AS PEOPLE. ALSO, PRIUSES. You've been to Bruges? YOU ARE SO CULTURED OMG! Not sure adding Amazon to a foreign city of 100,000 with no economy outside of tourism was advocated by anyone, but nice hyperbole. 10/10. Again with the dehumanization. And yes, I disagree with you that city's exist for reasons other than for people to live and prosper in them. Calling city-dwelling people "uncultured" and with "no character" when the alternative is rural folk is Trumpian. Not sure who you are referencing with your corporate welfare "point." I pointed out earlier in this thread that whatever a city gives to Amazon as inducement for them to choose that city, the city will get FAR more in return. But that is an economics argument, so perhaps you would feel more comfortable if i just noted that Amazon isn't coming to rural Tennessee, so you aren't really in any danger of having Mayberry become notable. I am definitely not cultured, but i have seen 10 times more of the world than you will ever see . Including living in foreign countries for a total of 6 years Ive also seen a lot of great things ruined by "progress". You probably have too, though if your metrics are always economic, probably not. And finally, i live in a metro area of 900k people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 NC or SC make some sense logistically. Canada makes no sense based on the taxes alone. DC does and doesn't for many reasons. I agree with zoony and his take about ruining the smaller towns, but that never stopped Walmart from making something out of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just now, zoony said: I am definitely not cultured, but i have seen probably 10 times more of the world than you will ever see I seriously, seriously doubt that. Just now, zoony said: Ive also seen a lot of great things ruined by "progress". You probably have too, though if your metrics are always economic, probably not. And finally, i live in a metro area of 900k people. I get it. People fear change. There is a whole gigantic segment of the population that wish the US would just go back to the 1950s when times were simpler, and there were no Priuses, and people said Merry Christmas all the time. Another gigantic segment of the population is okay with change, wants economic prosperity (or at least stability) for themselves and their families, and enjoys living in an dynamic environment that isn't the exact same **** day after day. That doesn't make them, ahem, assholes "sucking off tech company douchebags and their armies of uncultured, no character, conformist zombies[.]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I seriously, seriously doubt that. I get it. People fear change. There is a whole gigantic segment of the population that wish the US would just go back to the 1950s when times were simpler, and there were no Priuses, and people said Merry Christmas all the time. Nailed it. Also, we can measure dicks, but youll lose i promise 10x, conservatively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, zoony said: Nailed it. Also, we can measure dicks, but youll lose i promise 10x, conservatively Yes, you are a much bigger dick than i am. Also, regarding people that wish we could go back to the 1950's: **** those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I seriously, seriously doubt that. Really ??? I would make a fair wager to say that I perhaps have. Not sure about zoony and his life...but why would he lie about it ? I grew up military that's your first hint, and my father was in a highly secure clearance. His point is valid though. We have these tech companies taking over, and most Americans are losing businesses we like to frequent. Jobs for folks lost and a loss of general responsibility as a life lesson for our children to obtain those jobs. It's deeper than you may think. 6 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Yes, you are a much bigger dick than i am. Also, regarding people that wish we could go back to the 1950's: **** those people. Where in the heck did the 50's become the benchmark for what we are talking about ? I apologize if I missed that. I am not even going to post a dick pic...although it would go back to the black screen we all loved so much. I am a bit of a snarky jerk sometimes though. Builds character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Oh oh oh.......can we have a contest on who has spent the most time on foreign soil? Id like to throw my hat in that competition. My **** is bigger than both of yours combined in that arena I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 The fear is that you make Tysons Corner, rather than Seattle. Lots of money, lots of commerce, lots of snarled traffic, balanced with absolutely nothing of actual interest. Honestly ... Tysons got a Walmart in the last 3 or so years, and that is the single biggest cultural achievement of the city in the last decade, (yeah... there are the 100k or so jobs generated over that time, but so what? ) on the other hand, this would be perfect for cities like Pittsburgh that DO have flavor and coolness, but not enough jobs. 50k high paying, clean, highly educated jobs to team up with/strengthen Carnegie Mellon/Pitt/Duquesne ... how is that not perfect for that city? *Note* a wegmans is supposed to open in Tysons soon... that will top the Walmart achievement.. woot!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 37 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said: Really ??? I would make a fair wager to say that I perhaps have. Not sure about zoony and his life...but why would he lie about it ? I grew up military that's your first hint, and my father was in a highly secure clearance. He's not lying, he's just mistaken. And why are you inserting yourself, did either of us mention you? Also, who gives a **** who is more well-traveled in this discussion? Do you really believe that Zoony (or you, if you insist on inserting yourself for no reason) has more insight into civic development and economic issues because he's been to Bruges, Belgium? If so, by all means explain. Quote His point is valid though. We have these tech companies taking over, and most Americans are losing businesses we like to frequent. Jobs for folks lost and a loss of general responsibility as a life lesson for our children to obtain those jobs. It's deeper than you may think. Which point of his is valid? Here are all of the points Zoony has made to choose from (all verbatim quotes): 1. 50,000 ******* looking to invade a city and build more sprawl, clog roadways, crowd restaurants, and complain relentlessly the local IPA isnt as hoppy as where theyre from ... Gee, what city wouldnt want some of that?! 2. [I thought] "what this city really needs is a behemoth tech company to come in and dominate local policy and politics, change the local culture to their liking, and unleash 50000 uncultured millenial zombies on the place with their Priuses and sensitivity." 3. We can disagree but dont tell me that sucking off tech company douchebags and their armies of uncultured, no character, conformist zombies who work there is "the reason for a city to exist". 4. Ive also seen a lot of great things ruined by "progress". You probably have too, though if your metrics are always economic, probably not. You lament the loss of business, it seems like Zoony is actually lamenting that people are moving to ("invading") cities and adding to the local economy, such as construction ("build more sprawl"), food services businesses like restaurants ("crowd restaurants") and bars ("complain relentlessly the local IPA isnt as hoppy as where theyre from") and engage in the the local culture, even if that means it changes (god forbid). As noted in the first post and throughout this thread, Amazon is looking to ADD 50,000 jobs, the majority of which will be for young people (who want to live in a city). And your issue is "Jobs for folks lost and a loss of general responsibility as a life lesson for our children to obtain those jobs." Maybe i just can't understand that poorly worded sentence, but you just aren't making any sense. The whole freaking point of this thread is that cities are falling all over themselves because they WANT TO ADD JOBS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE (or, as zoony calls them, "armies of uncultured, no character, conformist zombies"), which will greatly benefit the other local businesses. Anyways, Zoony's resorting to 1) living in foreign countries and 2) dick jokes, are the obvious route to take when he realized that his actual points about the subject of the thread are not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 29 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said: Where in the heck did the 50's become the benchmark for what we are talking about ? I apologize if I missed that. There was this thing that happened last year. http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-37161449/why-trump-voters-wished-they-lived-in-the-1950s http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/26/politics/donald-trump-when-america-was-great/index.html https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/when-america-was-great-taxes-were-high-unions-were-strong-and-government-was-big/407284/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 25 minutes ago, mcsluggo said: on the other hand, this would be perfect for cities like Pittsburgh that DO have flavor and coolness, but not enough jobs. 50k high paying, clean, highly educated jobs to team up with/strengthen Carnegie Mellon/Pitt/Duquesne ... how is that not perfect for that city? As a Pittsburgh transplant. I roll my eyes at "flavor" and "coolness". If by flavor you mean steamed cabbage like Halushki and by cooness you mean fries in your sammich. The city tries, I give it that. Hard to give that to a city and area that still uses the N-word in casual conversation and uses the word "Jew" as a synonym for the act of bargaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: He's not lying, he's just mistaken. And why are you inserting yourself, did either of us mention you? Also, who gives a **** who is more well-traveled in this discussion? Do you really believe that Zoony (or you, if you insist on inserting yourself for no reason) has more insight into civic development and economic issues because he's been to Bruges, Belgium? If so, by all means explain. I apologize. I had no idea that I needed to be specifically mentioned for me to give input on this forum. No reason, I felt that there was a valid point to be made that supersedes your point of "seriously doubt". I certainly didn't ask for an invitation, nor did I need one on this type of topic or forum. By the way...my metrics are always...and I mean always economic. Jobs for folks lost ? Is that what you mean ? Meaning folks can't get jobs. I don't see the correlation...for kids. Geez man, I get that you are upset, but jobs for young kids. Why ? Those small businesses are not there to provide those jobs. It's really simple if you think about it. Ohhh... so it is a Trump thing...really man ?? ugh. Damn those poor sentences, yet you knew exactly what the hell I was talking about. Again, my apologies. Glad you are not representing me. Dodged a bullet. Not a real one...just to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just now, Kosher Ham said: I apologize. I had no idea that I needed to be specifically mentioned for me to give input on this forum. No reason, I felt that there was a valid point to be made that supersedes your point of "seriously doubt". I certainly didn't ask for an invitation, nor did I need one on this type of topic or forum. So again, I'll ask: Who cares? I noticed that you responded to zero of the substance in my above post. Just now, Kosher Ham said: By the way...my metrics are always...and I mean always economic. Jobs for folks lost ? Is that what you mean ? Meaning folks can't get jobs. I don't see the correlation...for kids. Geez man, I get that you are upset, but jobs for young kids. Why ? Those small businesses are not there to provide those jobs. It's really simple if you think about it. #1, I'm not upset, you are the one sounding like your feelings are a bit hurty. #2, again, as has been said many times in this thread and in the news, Amazon is creating 50,000 jobs, mostly for young people. Those jobs will fuel many other jobs providing services for those original 50,000, many by small businesses. This is very simple economics and WHY all of these cities are throwing their hats into the ring. Just now, Kosher Ham said: Ohhh... so it is a Trump thing...really man ?? ugh. Damn those poor sentences, yet you knew exactly what the hell I was talking about. Again, my apologies. Glad you are not representing me. Dodged a bullet. Not a real one...just to clarify. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Really??? I answered the first question in your quote. Hmm... #1: Haha, NO. My feelings are certainly not hurt. I live the life. #2: Oh my goodness, jobs for young adults, not for the kids that work their first jobs. You of all people can not think I am saying something different. The small businesses fade into oblivion. You have to know this. 50 thousand transplants ? No, only temporary jobs for the folks that build the place. Good gracious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said: Really??? I answered the first question in your quote. Hmm... #1: Haha, NO. My feelings are certainly not hurt. I live the life. #2: Oh my goodness, jobs for young adults, not for the kids that work their first jobs. You of all people can not think I am saying something different. The small businesses fade into oblivion. You have to know this. 50 thousand transplants ? No temporary jobs for the folks that build the place. Good gracious. I'm sorry. I just don't think you understand the economics at play here. I'm sure you disagree, and that's cool. I have no interest in explaining it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I can't see how Amazon picks anyplace that isn't urban and has a major airport. Economically, Detroit might be the perfect choice. the infrastructure is already there, housing is incredibly cheap, and you could make it into anything you want. I Chicago would also be a good choice. It could absorb Amazon without changing much at all, and tech employees would enjoy being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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