2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[skinny21]

7 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

 

I like it, keep stacking the D line and we will see positive results.

 

What about the kid from Clemson, is he not in that same tier with Vea and Payne?

Wilkins?  He didn’t declare.   

[JSSkinz]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

Wilkins?  He didn’t declare.   

 

Gotcha, I was just looking at the rankings on Walter, didn't realize they were listing guys who hadn't declared.

[HigSkin]

Matich thinks OL #13 with Nelson.  Is he the BPA against any other D possibilities at that pick?

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

 

Gotcha, I was just looking at the rankings on Walter, didn't realize they were listing guys who hadn't declared.

I think they’re just behind in their updating.  

 

My ideal (as of now) is getting a versatile DL or trading back in the 1st.  I should add a 3rd - taking a guy that surprisingly falls - Fitzpatrick or maybe Smith/Nelson, etc.  

 

@HigSkinQuite possibly.  Personally, although I love the idea of beefing up our trenches/OL, I think DL helps us more, and additional picks (per a trade back) gives us more chances at shoring up our weaknesses.  

 

If a big part of our run game problem has a lot to do with 1) poor TE blocking, 2) inadequate running backs and/or 3) an inability to stretch the field in the pass game... a G might not have as great of an impact.  

 

If adding a DL shores up our issues in the run game (and gives us great depth, and or rotation behind Allen/Ioannidas), we could take a major step forward on D.  Essentially, I look at it as completing (or moving us closer to completion) of the Defense.  On offense, if feels like we need a G, receiver (or two), a back, and, IMO, a well rounded TE.  

 

To be clear, I wouldn’t complain about Nelson at all, it’s just option 2 (or maybe 1b).  

[Mania]

2018 Scouting Report: Hayden Hurst, South Carolina, Tight End

 

This is a series of articles about players I have been personally scouting. Would I consider myself an expert or a guru? Nope. I’m not applying for jobs with other teams. Would I say I’ve had more hits than misses? Yes, especially over the past three years. These articles are solely my opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree!

 

Whilst continuing the run of Tight Ends in this course I now come across one of the most divisive players in the entire draft class. Tight End Hayden Hurst is 6’5, 250 pounds and very athletic. Some people have him as a middling prospect whilst others have him very highly rated in the class.

 

Truth be told. I have found him to be one of the most infuriating players to watch tape on, but not for the reason you think. Hurst appears to be flawed on paper, and he’s certainly got a massive flaw that keeps him from being one of the top two prospects in the class. His lack of production is initially concerning until you turn on his tape and realize that his quarterback is absolutely abysmal. So, let’s objectively go into Hurst. Let’s hope that a Hurst from South Carolina is much better than the one we got from North Carolina.

 

 

Positives:

 

Let me preface this here: Hurst’s issues have little to do with his actual capabilities. Hurst in terms of pure skills and athletic ability is a top-level prospect because he is very athletic, has a set of good hands, and is a good blocker. Some believe he’s more akin to a Crockett Gilmore type, but upon reexamination of his tape I do not see that at all. Crockett Gilmore is not the same kind of athlete that Hayden Hurst is.

 

[MEDIA=youtube]hxf3zJ2TGB8[/MEDIA]

 

Hurst has a better initial burst than any Tight End in this class. Hurst was used occasionally out of the backfield on rushing downs. This burst does help him after the catch as well.

 

[MEDIA=youtube]Pcymk_49Jnc[/MEDIA]

 

He does not have a gear, but he does have some burst.

 

Hurst is also a good target over the middle for different reasons. He was able to make tough catches over the middle. Of course, not with any frequency thanks to his quarterback play not being good. But he seldom puts balls on the ground.

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/26DMYGZL5zkhVIysw/giphy.gif

 

That said Hurst can do the Crockett Gillmore thing where he’s just simply bigger than everyone and is impossible to bring down.

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/26DN1avpIeLV9hXe8/giphy.gif

 

His blocking is not bad either, pretty good in fact, but he could stand to improve and get stronger.

 

Overall, Hurst has some raw qualities that make him very good.

 

 

Now for the negatives.

 

 

Negatives

 

Hayden Hurst will be a very old rookie. He’s currently 24 and will be 25 when the season officially starts. This normally would be something I overlook, but he plays a slow developing position in an NFL Tight End. This knocks him down a round or two for me in my overall grading for this reason alone.

 

But there are other things that I have some concerns about. I do think his route running needs significant improvement. He gets open, but he needs to continue to improve. His game is eventually going to have to evolve as his athletic ability declines.

 

 

Player Comparison: Travis Kelce, TE. Kelce is the second best Tight End in the NFL right now, but he has a lot of similar qualities. Very good athlete with a good set of hands, who is underrated after the catch and can make tough catches over the middle. He’s a good blocker. A comparison that will seem lofty, but his talent is evident. 

 

Overall Grade: Mid Third- Mid Fourth Rounder. In terms of pure ability, I rank him as highly as a late first to early second rounder given his skill set. But his age pushes him back a little. But not as far back as I think it pushed back Dennis Pitta, who was also 25 when he entered the league. He’s a good prospect, whom I’d be more than happy if we drafted. His age is a big red flag, but one that I feel can be overlooked. Until Pitta’s hip injury he was productive for us when he started to enter his physical prime. I would not mind Hurst, can’t be worse than the one we currently have.[/QUOTE]

[skinny21]

I liked what I saw from Hurst.  

Goedert’s my top TE, followed by (in no particular order) Fumagali, Schultz, Hurst, Andrews and Brenneman.  Andrews probably has the most upside, Fumagali is probably the most plug-and-play of the group.  Hurst is a well rounded prospect, Brenneman and Schultz offer more as pass catchers, but really put in the effort as blockers.  The latter have a lot of solid tape going against Dlineman/OLBs. All just MO though.  

 

There a couple other intriguing guys that I have’t been able to watch much like Thomas from Florida.  Gesick doesn’t do it for me, especially as a pass catcher (I don’t see the burst to separate), but he’s reliable.  Solid hands and solid blocking.  

[Mannix]

41 minutes ago, SkinsFanMania said:

2018 Scouting Report: Hayden Hurst, South Carolina, Tight End

 

This is a series of articles about players I have been personally scouting. Would I consider myself an expert or a guru? Nope. I’m not applying for jobs with other teams. Would I say I’ve had more hits than misses? Yes, especially over the past three years. These articles are solely my opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree!

 

Whilst continuing the run of Tight Ends in this course I now come across one of the most divisive players in the entire draft class. Tight End Hayden Hurst is 6’5, 250 pounds and very athletic. Some people have him as a middling prospect whilst others have him very highly rated in the class.

 

Truth be told. I have found him to be one of the most infuriating players to watch tape on, but not for the reason you think. Hurst appears to be flawed on paper, and he’s certainly got a massive flaw that keeps him from being one of the top two prospects in the class. His lack of production is initially concerning until you turn on his tape and realize that his quarterback is absolutely abysmal. So, let’s objectively go into Hurst. Let’s hope that a Hurst from South Carolina is much better than the one we got from North Carolina.

 

 

Positives:

 

Let me preface this here: Hurst’s issues have little to do with his actual capabilities. Hurst in terms of pure skills and athletic ability is a top-level prospect because he is very athletic, has a set of good hands, and is a good blocker. Some believe he’s more akin to a Crockett Gilmore type, but upon reexamination of his tape I do not see that at all. Crockett Gilmore is not the same kind of athlete that Hayden Hurst is.

 

[MEDIA=youtube]hxf3zJ2TGB8[/MEDIA]

 

Hurst has a better initial burst than any Tight End in this class. Hurst was used occasionally out of the backfield on rushing downs. This burst does help him after the catch as well.

 

[MEDIA=youtube]Pcymk_49Jnc[/MEDIA]

 

He does not have a gear, but he does have some burst.

 

Hurst is also a good target over the middle for different reasons. He was able to make tough catches over the middle. Of course, not with any frequency thanks to his quarterback play not being good. But he seldom puts balls on the ground.

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/26DMYGZL5zkhVIysw/giphy.gif

 

That said Hurst can do the Crockett Gillmore thing where he’s just simply bigger than everyone and is impossible to bring down.

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/26DN1avpIeLV9hXe8/giphy.gif

 

His blocking is not bad either, pretty good in fact, but he could stand to improve and get stronger.

 

Overall, Hurst has some raw qualities that make him very good.

 

 

Now for the negatives.

 

 

Negatives

 

Hayden Hurst will be a very old rookie. He’s currently 24 and will be 25 when the season officially starts. This normally would be something I overlook, but he plays a slow developing position in an NFL Tight End. This knocks him down a round or two for me in my overall grading for this reason alone.

 

But there are other things that I have some concerns about. I do think his route running needs significant improvement. He gets open, but he needs to continue to improve. His game is eventually going to have to evolve as his athletic ability declines.

 

 

Player Comparison: Travis Kelce, TE. Kelce is the second best Tight End in the NFL right now, but he has a lot of similar qualities. Very good athlete with a good set of hands, who is underrated after the catch and can make tough catches over the middle. He’s a good blocker. A comparison that will seem lofty, but his talent is evident. 

 

Overall Grade: Mid Third- Mid Fourth Rounder. In terms of pure ability, I rank him as highly as a late first to early second rounder given his skill set. But his age pushes him back a little. But not as far back as I think it pushed back Dennis Pitta, who was also 25 when he entered the league. He’s a good prospect, whom I’d be more than happy if we drafted. His age is a big red flag, but one that I feel can be overlooked. Until Pitta’s hip injury he was productive for us when he started to enter his physical prime. I would not mind Hurst, can’t be worse than the one we currently have.[/QUOTE]

I’m a bit of a draft nerd myself and I’ve circled Hurst as real diamond in the rough.  Think about him in 2 tight end sets with a healthy skins o-line.  I think he’s a matchup problem from the tight end position and then also as the fullback.  I would agree that his TD production problems had to do with mediocre QB play.  Really there are games that he was pretty productive in terms of receptions and yards.  I’m interested to follow his career wherever he ends up.

 

FYI another diamond that excites me is Mark Walton the RB from Miami.  Go check him out.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

 

 

I like it, keep stacking the D line and we will see positive results.

 

What about the kid from Clemson, is he not in that same tier with Vea and Payne?

Think both Clemson DL went back in a surprise move.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

They also have Maurice Hurst falling all the way to the 51st pick so take it with a grain of salt.

 

I take them all with a grain of salt.  But tough to notice that guys like Sony Michel from what I notice don't drop to 13th in the 2nd round in any mock I've seen of late.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I take them all with a grain of salt.  But tough to notice that guys like Sony Michel from what I notice don't drop to 13th in the 2nd round in any mock I've seen of late.

Yeah here's what I've noticed with the mocks ... and again they're JUST mocks ... but they do give a sense of trends and player quality, etc.

- Barkley is going Top 7. He might fall a bit depending on how the chips fall, but I can't see him getting past Cleveland at 4 and the very least, Tampa at 7.

- Guice is the next guy to go and for a while it was in the 2nd, but I've seen him going in the mid-1st round range lately in some mocks

- The rest: Sony Michel, Kerryon Johnson, Nick Chubb, Ronald Jones, Bryce Love ... in no particular order, are all flying off the board in the early 2nd, where you have a ton of teams that could use an RB upgrade picking ahead of us. In most of the mock drafts that I've seen, we tend to get the last guy of that group at our pick ... so in a sense by waiting until our pick in the 2nd, you do risk having the last pick of that tier. Which is okay if you like all the guys equally, but my guess is we will have our favorites and our targets. Trading back into the later 1st would probably allow us to, at the very least, get the top guy in that tier, if not have a shot at Guice.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 hours ago, bowhunter said:

Wow, that would be quite the steal. I've seen some mocks with him going in the late first rd. Although I doubt that will happen, I don't think he'll go any later than 2nd round. Nice work

It's hard to say because all it takes is a good combine and a team to fall in love with him. But even if he is the next Garropolo, he's going to need 1-2 years to learn the speed of the NFL since he's coming from FCS (although Wentz didn't need it) ... I'd expect 3rd at the earliest. Simply because this is a deep QB class and at best he's the 4th QB ... and at worst he's maybe the 8th? That's 4th to 6th round territory. I can't see first or second. Teams want instant results, and one good senior bowl isn't going to jump him from a 6th-UDFA grade to late 1st. But, crazier things have happened.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Matich thinks OL #13 with Nelson.  Is he the BPA against any other D possibilities at that pick?

Okay so there is one scenario where I stick at #13  over trading down (Unless Buffalo offered 21 and 22 which would be hard to turn down) and that's to take Nelson. I don't think he falls. But if he does, you take him, and then you draft whoever the RB is in the 2nd. Nelson at LG leaves no doubt that your OL is stacked. You'd basically have drafted the Top 2 Guards to come out of college in the last 3-4 years. Line would be stacked

[wilco_holland]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Matich thinks OL #13 with Nelson.  Is he the BPA against any other D possibilities at that pick?

 

I think Nelson is top 10 pick that could drop because of position and QBs. So I would say yes he could be easy bpa. 

 

Don't mind having a second pro bowl calibre guard. Not did any research on him if he has that movement like Brandon on the right side. I don't remember him as standing out when getting to the second level. Only I haven't watched a hole lot of ND.

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Yeah here's what I've noticed with the mocks ... and again they're JUST mocks ... but they do give a sense of trends and player quality, etc.

- Barkley is going Top 7. He might fall a bit depending on how the chips fall, but I can't see him getting past Cleveland at 4 and the very least, Tampa at 7.

 

 

Barkley of late I see hot at #2 to the Giants.  I hope that doesn't happen

 

Here's Athlon latest

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/2018-nfl-mock-draft-first-round-predictions-updated-senior-bowl

 

I buy their draft magazine every year and its typically good.  They actually have Ronald Jones and Sony Michel in the first round.  But with Guice dropping to the 2nd round. funky.

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, Mannix said:

I’m a bit of a draft nerd myself and I’ve circled Hurst as real diamond in the rough.  Think about him in 2 tight end sets with a healthy skins o-line.  I think he’s a matchup problem from the tight end position and then also as the fullback.  I would agree that his TD production problems had to do with mediocre QB play.  Really there are games that he was pretty productive in terms of receptions and yards.  I’m interested to follow his career wherever he ends up.

 

FYI another diamond that excites me is Mark Walton the RB from Miami.  Go check him out.

Dude, please don't quote large blocks of text, pics or videos and especially all of them. You can just @ the poster you're quoting.

[freakofthesouth]

Here’s Mel and Todd discussing Smith/Cousins, QB class post senior bowl and DL depth:

 

https://t.co/gl2OTmuuNk

 

a couple points that stand out:

 

QB class got deeper after the senior bowl... the top tier of WRs is only two- Kirk and Ridley.  DL depth could extend into early second round with names like Settle, Trenton Thompson, Lotulelei, and maybe even Taven Bryan, Rasheem green etc.  

 

Might be a top tier RB at our 2nd round pick as well...?  Not Bryce love tho, he was my fave:

 

RJ2

Michel

Chubb

 

also tossing in that i agree, adding Q Nelson would be worth staying put at 13, augmenting any later round RB scoopage a la bo Scarborough... imagine that.  Not sure of Bo’s Pass pro but has height and athletic ability and rare freakish speed/size combo.  Let’s see how these RBs test later this month!!  Also John Kelly sleeper.  RB talent is kinda deep.

[Est.1974]

Nelson at 13 would be a great pick. Suspect we might be spending in FA now so will be interesting to see where the money goes there first.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Nelson at 13 would be a great pick. Suspect we might be spending in FA now so will be interesting to see where the money goes there first.

Bruce is cheap as ****. I wouldn't expect any big spending.

[wilco_holland]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bruce is cheap as ****. I wouldn't expect any big spending.

 

Can you believe that! Who doesn't like spending an other person money?!

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bruce is cheap as ****. I wouldn't expect any big spending.

 

I think we'll try to spend. Smith will be on a promise for weapons on offense, Maybe they come via the draft but I reckon we'll be after a couple of A listers in FA.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Can you believe that! Who doesn't like spending an other person money?!

Haha, right?

 

Bruce was the perfect GM to take over the Bucs when the owners were trying to spend as little as possible. 

 

He is a master of being under the cap.

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I think we'll try to spend. Smith will be on a promise for weapons on offense, Maybe they come via the draft but I reckon we'll be after a couple of A listers in FA.

A "couple"? Zero chance. I could maybe see spending big for a top WR, but not if it's a players market. 

[Mania]

Gifs didn’t work

[Mania]

2018 Scouting Report: Dallas Goedert, Tight End, South Dakota State

 

This is a series of articles about players I have been personally scouting. Since I enjoy watching the tapes of several prospects. Would I consider myself an expert or a guru? Nope. I’m not applying for jobs with other teams. Would I say I’ve had more hits than misses? Yes, especially over the past three years. 

 

This Tight End class is proving to be very impressive over the long stretch. While it does not have the top end talent of last year’s, it is certainly not lacking and should be considered a well above average class. Sadly, this class tends to be underrated because of how well the talent in the last class tends to be looked at. However, I do not subscribe to the notion that none of these Tight Ends would have been considered upper tier last year. However, given that we completely ignored Tight End last draft when the class was so deep, I have to disagree, the top two prospects in this draft, Mark Andrews being one of them, not only hold up compared to the last draft’s Tight End prospects, but are arguably equal or greater in my eyes. The second-best player of all of these players is Dallas Godert. Small school player out of South Dakota State.

 

 

Positives.

 

Goedert is not a perfect prospect but his athleticism is very intriguing. Easily among the best in the entire class, which is not a small feat as Andrews, Hurst, Thomas, and Gesicki are all well above average athletes. In all likelihood Ian Thomas is faster. But the overall combination of leaping ability, foot speed, quickness, body control, and strength turns into elite athletic ability for a Tight End. Not in the Vernon Davis/OJ Howard sense, but in the Jimmy Graham sense. Graham is not going to burn you with his speed, but his athleticism is elite nonetheless.

 

 

That’s Dallas Goedert in a nutshell. He’ll make an insane catch and still make a play after the catch he has room to work. Goedert does not have elite speed, but I would consider it above average for a Tight End. I’d even put it above Mark Andrews’ speed, and his is also above average. He’s got solid burst for a man his size.

 

 

Some would attribute his production to the lower level competition he has played, I disagree. Athleticism is athleticism. Production is production. Likewise, good coverage is good coverage. Dallas Goedert eats good coverage alive in two ways. 1. He’s actually better at finding some soft spots in the zone than I initially gave him credit for. He’s not nearly as adept to it as Mark Andrews, but he can do it better than some other prospects I have scouted thus far. 2. His box out discipline is excellent because, surprise, he’s a former basketball player. Damn good rebounder with impressive leaping ability. I’d argue that Gesicki is better at the leaping part of the jump ball, but Goedert is more fundamentally sound. His boxing out fundamentals are Tim Duncan levels of textbook and his body control is simply better.

 

To add to this ever love fest. Goedert is a good blocker, or at least he displays the tools to eventually become a good blocker. He’s clearly strong and his technique isn’t terrible. That said, like with any small school prospect it could use some work. But he could turn into an asset for any team that drafts him. You could easily play him from either the slot(which he does operate out of), or inline.

 

Overall, Goedert is athleticially gifted. If his combine numbers are excellent he will be the first tight end taken.

 

 

Negatives

 

Once again. Not much. That said, I do have a few minor concerns about him. His hands are good, but he did put a few balls on the ground, moreso than Andrews or Gesicki. That concerns me slightly, as he can make the spectacular catch but not the routine grab. Which is concerning. Likewise, I do have some minor concerns about the occasional lack of separation. I do not think that this is due to a total lack of athletic ability, but his game needs some tweaking. This is a common problem from a small school prospect. This leads me to my final concern. The small school thing is one of the most overrated concerns out there, but I do wonder how quickly he will adjust to the game. Not only is he a small school prospect, he’s a Tight End. They notoriously develop slowly and I wonder if he is going to develop at a slower rate than others.

 

 

Player Comparison: Jeremy Shockey. No, I am not going to compare him to Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez. That would be way too easy. I do think he’s athletically similar, with those two ultimately being superior. But he plays the game like Shockey did. Not fast, but quicker. An absolute monster in jump ball situations. Nice strong hands. Minus the personality that Shockey had.

 

 

Overall Grade: Late first- Mid second round prospect. Even with the small school mantra, I would seriously be surprised if he was drafted after the second round. His athletic talent and skills are too good. He needs some refinement and coaching, but that is a usual occurrence. I have worries that it will take him awhile to adjust to the game, but overall, what I see from him is very promising.[/QUOTE]

[Rogue Jedi]

Am I the only one not impressed with Barkley? I mean yeah his highlights are impressive, but these college kids with their boneheaded tackling techniques.... Jesus... dropping their heads and arm tackles. Not gonna happen at the next level.

 

 

Derwin James at 13 plz.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Quentin Nelson at #13 and Nick Chubb at #44. Man! 

 

I did that mock off season where I traded back and went DL+RB+OG. 

 

Id he even more tempted to go get 21/22 from Buffalo, draft maybe RB at 21 (Guice? Michel?), and then trade 22 back a little further to the end of R1 or to a team in the early 2nd looking to move back in for a QB (Browns?) if one falls. I’d then draft Wynn at LG and Goedert at TE with those next 2 picks and throw the added pick from a second trade down toward the DEF. 

 

I do really like Goedert but never put much thought toward drafting him due to other needs. But getting Smith another TE to pair with Reed who can also block would be premier. I like Sprinkle and hope he develops but I also wouldn’t mind doubling down there IF you have the luxury of extra picks.

 

In our case I don’t think you can go wrong focusing on building the defense. But I also don’t think you can go wrong in building the run game and adding the west coast weapons to help our offense reach the next level under Smith.