stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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Just a few thoughts here:

 

we really cant go into this draft with clear needs.  The result is we telegraph our pick and thus have less footing to stand on for trades and such.  anything can happen for them at WR, RB, OL, but for DT needs it would just be tough to expect the draft to deliver the answer.  I'll again point out, even after the draft that Vea was supposed to crush, that I feel as though he is overrated.  I also am a fan of H Phillips, dude is perhaps somewhat similar to Matt I but also different at  the same time.  42 bench reps, I mean thats awesome.  I also really like Tim Settle.  The point here is, plenty of depth at DL even later in the draft.

 

I think it will be difficult for the team to pass on Denzel Ward because he has bigtime upside.  I see Guice in the mix as a possible selection though I think there are a number of ways to go re RB and spending that 1st rounder on him, they would really have to like him.

 

a couple other notes re Bama defensive players- obviously the team likes them.  If you watch Bama pro day footage you will see Torrian Gray spending A LOT of time with Tony Brown who showed out well at the combine with the sub 4.4 40.  I think that would be a great 4th or 5th personally.  Also Bradley Bozeman is worth mentioning, Cs and OGs are mostly interchangeable.  Also please do watch some film on Shaun Dion Hamilton, fanspeak mocks have him going in the 3rd even after his two rather serious injuries.  Dude can ball.  Im interested to hear anyone elses' take on him.

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19 hours ago, klwilkins1977 said:

Vea is the sexy pick.   Extremely big guy who can move.   Carries his weight well.   The pulled hammy on the 40 at the combine puts caution signs all over him.   The speed and agility that he'll be seeing every down in the NFL is going to stress him more than trying to chase the clock.   If he lost 20lbs though... 

 

Payne is sick.   Dude is yoked and moves like a ballerina.   Great hips.   Great fluidity when changing directions.   Did I mention that he's yoked?   He's also mean af and a hard worker.   Unlike Vea,  I have no worries that his weight would balloon. 

 

Harrison Phillips is a hoss.   A little stiff in the hips but this guy is strong like bull. More athletic than most,  but I see this guy being an every down tackle who pushes the line of scrimmage into the QBs lap.   His strength will demand double teams,  which translates into more opportunities for the MLB to remain clean,  the need for the offense to leave the RB in the backfield to contain our ends or a free blitzer,  and shorter zones for the secondary to cover.   Deep passes diminish against us. 

 

So,  my picks go Payne, Phillips,  then Vea.   One of them will be there at 13.  No trade backs!!  We have to have one of these guys. 

 

Let Wilkerson sign with the Raiders.   We don't need attitudes and dudes taking 3rd and long off... 

 

I mostly agree with this except for Payne being #1. Between those three my list would be Phillips, Payne, then Vea. Payne is a bit of an enigma to me. He looks explosive on film, and has a relentless motor but his stats are just awful. Now, obviously stats are not the end all be all but 3 sacks and 5 TFL in three years? That's just not getting it done. I see it on tape too, he has good burst, some decent pass rushing chops, but he just rarely seems to be able to put it together and finish those plays. He also tends to be very easily handled by double teams and it will take him completely out of the play. He isn't a dude who is going to be able to take on multiple blockers and overpower or split them with technique IMO. He reminds me of a DT version of Ryan Anderson. Good burst, incredibly relentless with the same attitude, but at the end of the day not a dominant force.

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4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I mostly agree with this except for Payne being #1. Between those three my list would be Phillips, Payne, then Vea. Payne is a bit of an enigma to me. He looks explosive on film, and has a relentless motor but his stats are just awful. Now, obviously stats are not the end all be all but 3 sacks and 5 TFL in three years? That's just not getting it done. I see it on tape too, he has good burst, some decent pass rushing chops, but he just rarely seems to be able to put it together and finish those plays. He also tends to be very easily handled by double teams and it will take him completely out of the play. He isn't a dude who is going to be able to take on multiple blockers and overpower or split them with technique IMO. He reminds me of a DT version of Ryan Anderson. Good burst, incredibly relentless with the same attitude, but at the end of the day not a dominant force.

Sounds like a 2nd round pick to me.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if these guys drop like the Alabama DTs a few years ago that everyone wanted, Jarran Reed and some one else who ended up being picked much later because they don't rush the passer well which is such a premium in today's NFL.

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On 3/11/2018 at 8:29 AM, wilco_holland said:

I really want to like Vea but it feels so like Danny Shelton. I loved him out of college. Thought he combined big body with pass rush ability but it doesn't really come out in the NFL. 

 

Now he is traded to the Pats.

 

It's just hard. Either Vea is an unique player. One of the rare huge tackles who can collapse the pocket and be stout against the run. Or he is just going to be "an other" very good NT that comes of the field on 3th down. 

 

I was thinking this too. I wanted Danny Shelton coming out because he was lane clogger and athletic enough to offer some pass rush. Now, he is traded to Pats .

 

I was also thinking of Star Lotulelei and how the Panthers took him as their first pick but Kwann Short, who was their 4th round pick??? was actually their star pick in that draft. Bottom line, maybe taking these big (polynesian) guys in the first round is not so smart and better off investing in LB or CB and take our Kwann Short later on who would be "insert name".

 

Tomsula would know what an ideal DL would look like and the preferred talent and skills. If he thinks Vea can play in the NFL, then that would ease my concerns to a lesser degree lol.

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If you want a fat boy lane clogger who is mostly a situational 2 down sort of guy you can find one later in the draft or pick up a moderately priced FA. No need to spend a mid 1st round pick on one. I mean really, how many huge NT fatties have been drafted high but never really became the game changers their teams hoped? Seems to be quite a few. 

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There's so much talk about DL, I still hope we go ILB early in the draft. I think among the 4 position groups (DL, DB, OLB, ILB), its the weakest. Or even if you go into a deeper positional ranking (DE, DT, OLB, ILB, FS, SS, CB), I still think its the weakest. I still value a BPA approach, but the guy I think could help our team the most right now is a R. Smith type player. If we don't pick him up though, I could see us going after a Fitzpatrick or a RB. If this later situation isn't presented though, I'd hope it means that one or more of the QBs have dropped and we can do a trade down and acquire another day 2 pick.

 

One question I have though is that while ideally something like Buffalo's 2 firsts for our pick would be nice, I wonder what we would consider a "bad" trade down. If we dropped to 32 and only picked up a 7th, that's a bad trade in my book. But if there are few suitors for a trade down (and we think we have a lot of options at 13), but I wonder how badly we want to "win" a trade down vs wanting to get "more" picks.

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33 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

There's so much talk about DL, I still hope we go ILB early in the draft. I think among the 4 position groups (DL, DB, OLB, ILB), its the weakest.

If Edmunds is available at #13, I think he will be the pick. Although I seriously doubt that he will fall that far, anything is possible.

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4 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

If Edmunds is available at #13, I think he will be the pick. Although I seriously doubt that he will fall that far, anything is possible.

 

I have a feeling that Edmunds will be there; the question is whether we'd be patient enough with him. He's physically a freak but he's really raw and will need a good amount of coaching once he gets into the NFL. To be honest I wouldn't even pencil him in as a starter day 1. He makes some amazing splash plays and has really good sideline to sideline range but his instincts for the game are sorta subpar and he seems to always be taking false steps and committing before waiting for the play to develop and understanding what's going on. That leads him to bite incredibly hard on play action as well as some runs as he'll attack a certain gap fiercely without actually reading the play and keys and the ball ends up going completely the other direction of where he crashed down. I'm certainly not saying i wouldn't want him...I think his ceiling is ridiculous. Just that if we draft him don't expect him to be an immediate pro bowler.

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5 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

If Edmunds is available at #13, I think he will be the pick. Although I seriously doubt that he will fall that far, anything is possible.

 

Good pull, I had forgotten about him. I do wonder about him playing inside 3-4 LB and in some respects I see him as similar to Watt last year who I was ok on because of his lack of experience, but he went to Pitt and became an OLB.

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8 hours ago, mistertim said:

If you want a fat boy lane clogger who is mostly a situational 2 down sort of guy you can find one later in the draft or pick up a moderately priced FA. No need to spend a mid 1st round pick on one. I mean really, how many huge NT fatties have been drafted high but never really became the game changers their teams hoped? Seems to be quite a few. 

 

We have one of those on the team already in Phil Taylor.... first round, fizzled out, oft-injured.

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On 3/10/2018 at 1:29 PM, wilco_holland said:

I really want to like Vea but it feels so like Danny Shelton. I loved him out of college. Thought he combined big body with pass rush ability but it doesn't really come out in the NFL. 

 

Now he is traded to the Pats.

 

It's just hard. Either Vea is an unique player. One of the rare huge tackles who can collapse the pocket and be stout against the run. Or he is just going to be "an other" very good NT that comes of the field on 3th down. 

 

He'd more than likely be off the field on 3rd down anyway. You want your best pass rushers, and for now it would be Allen, Kerrigan and Smith, along with Ion or Murphy (assuming he's resigned)

 

I don't see the value for a NT that early in the draft, regardless of how bad they need one. I'm sure they will get one at some point, but fairly convinced it won't be in the 1st or 2nd.

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I think if Edmunds is there you have to take him and kind of work out where he will play later . 

 

I think we have been missing a real difference maker in the middle for a long long time... (even including LF especially in his last couple of years) ... 

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I can't see putting Edmunds anywhere but ILB because he has such great range and, despite being raw, is actually really good in coverage. He isn't all that much of a pass rusher as far as moves. He got some sacks on blitzes and a couple of one on one matchups, but that wasn't his bread and butter. He's not bad at it but IMO it would be a waste of his talents to try and stick him in there as a pass rushing OLB. 

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I think our interest in Vea is a smokescreen.  We have 2 of Payne's old teammates on staff who will give our scout's the inside scoop on him.  He's the real target IMO

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7 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

I think our interest in Vea is a smokescreen.  We have 2 of Payne's old teammates on staff who will give our scout's the inside scoop on him.  He's the real target IMO

 

In the 2nd round I hope.

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19 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

In the 2nd round I hope.

That would be amazing, highly unlikely he drops that far though. Would love to see Royce Freeman RB drop to the 5th round but I think we will have already selected Chubb or Guice in the second.

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2 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

I think if Edmunds is there you have to take him and kind of work out where he will play later . 

 

I think we have been missing a real difference maker in the middle for a long long time... (even including LF especially in his last couple of years) ... 

 

We do have extra info on Virginia Tech players I guess. Hall probally still has some connections there (and looks like he is part of the proces, participating in combine interviews. I think that's a good thing. Player related better to other players) and Torrian Gray comes from there. 

 

Edited by wilco_holland

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1 hour ago, mistertim said:

I can't see putting Edmunds anywhere but ILB because he has such great range and, despite being raw, is actually really good in coverage. He isn't all that much of a pass rusher as far as moves. He got some sacks on blitzes and a couple of one on one matchups, but that wasn't his bread and butter. He's not bad at it but IMO it would be a waste of his talents to try and stick him in there as a pass rushing OLB. 

The guy has a HUGE frame. He could bulk up a little bit and be a dominate 4-3 end IMO. 

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22 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

we really cant go into this draft with clear needs.  The result is we telegraph our pick and thus have less footing to stand on for trades and such.

Our needs really determine the value of the picks before us...well, now that I think about it, that knowledge does help determine the baseline.

 

If the 21 pick thinks either pick 16 or 17 is likely to take the guy 21 wants and 14 and 15 look like they'll get the guy they want if they stay pat, 21 will need to go to at least 13.  Since negotiations are often relatively secret until after the fact, 14 and 15 may be able to trade back but request more than 13.  Trading picks is more like buying a house than buying a thing at a grocery store, the price you are going to pay or get is only within a certain range, someone may pay more for a lesser house for a less motivated seller and less for a great house if the seller is really motivated.

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3 hours ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

We have one of those on the team already in Phil Taylor.... first round, fizzled out, oft-injured.

98% sure that he's now an unrestricted free agent. After taking a year off and then suffering another season-ending injury, I can see him hanging it up. If he doesn't I'd love to give him another shot. I know his only showing was in pre-season, but he was easily our best DL.

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11 hours ago, mistertim said:

If you want a fat boy lane clogger who is mostly a situational 2 down sort of guy you can find one later in the draft or pick up a moderately priced FA. No need to spend a mid 1st round pick on one. I mean really, how many huge NT fatties have been drafted high but never really became the game changers their teams hoped? Seems to be quite a few. 

We've been in need of a fat boy lane clogger since 2010.  OK, I'll give it a bit of a pass in 2010 and maybe 2011 since we were transitioning and had a host of 3-4 needs. In that time, we've tried to fill that with late round/udfa types and low end FAs.

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Rumours are that Zach Brown will leave us. I then hope that Smith drops to our pick in the draft. He is the player I like the most at 13. I just really want one of does hype ILBs. Guy that flies around the field, makes crazy plays and gets the hole team going. 

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41 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

Rumours are that Zach Brown will leave us. I then hope that Smith drops to our pick in the draft. He is the player I like the most at 13. I just really want one of does hype ILBs. Guy that flies around the field, makes crazy plays and gets the hole team going. 

I'm just not overly impressed with Roquan Smith....he sheds blocks very well and is a strong tackler, I just don't see the read and react from him.  He seems like an athlete playing out of position when I watch him.    If Tremaine Edmunds is anywhere close I say we trade and snag him.  He's all over the place and has a better feel for the position.

 

Smith has some mysterious medical issue, so we may be able to trade back and still get him though.

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