stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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@skinny21 Here's what I think our FO is thinking and it's not that "far off" from reality ...

 

CB1 and CB2 are set. Fabian Moreau and Josh Norman. Behind that you have Quintin Dunbar and Josh Holsey who are just fine as CB3 and CB4. Need is at slot corner, though Holsey may fit there. Then there's Harvey-Clemons, who could also be a solid CB5. What you're missing in "certainty" ... if Moreau steps in and is equal to Breeland (many think he can be as a guy who without injuries would have been a 1st/2nd rounder last year) ... then you are actually okay at CB. Anyone that you draft will compete for a roster spot and maybe the slot corner position, bumping Holsey and Harvey-Clemons back to CB5 and CB6.

 

DL is fine when healthy. But one NT and another stud DE could make it elite. I could see us targeting DL stud in FA making a draft pick just a bonus. But a stud like Richardson or Logan in FA likely pushes DL for us to the mid-rounds where you maybe land a NT type.

 

ILB, if Brown is back, is fine. Mainly because your DL is approaching elite and your pass-rushers are very good. ILB becomes less of a necessity and can be docked as the "okay" unit of the bunch elevated by quality play around it. If we bring back Brown, I think the status-quo will be okay. Brown-Foster as starters with Virgil and Spright as back-up.

 

Edge, assuming you bring back Gallette, and especially if you bring back Galette and Murphy, is just fine. Kerrigan-Smith as starters with Anderson-Gallette as rotational pieces is elite-level.

 

Safety: Nicholson and Swearing are the penciled starters for me. I like Everett as well. Now, if Cravens is back, then we have a pretty solid depth chart, but that doesn't mean we can't upgrade, and this is the position that I could see going either way. Early draft-pick the most likely of the choices to bolster the depth, though I like the potential of the unit.

 

So on defense, if you didn't add anyone and just brought back Brown and Galette and got healthy, I think we're in good shape jus with young guys getting better with the upgrade options being, in order, 1 DL, 1 CB, 1 FS. 

 

On offense things are different, mainly because I think you're looking at the possibility of 0 new starters or 4. LG, RB, WR, TE. If Long is re-signed, then he or Roller likely kick to LG. OL is solved, except for maybe a late-rounder for groomed depth. WR is another one that's interesting. Read what guys like Matt Miller say and the Dotson-Crowder combo has massive upside and if Doctson becomes the true WR1, you are okay with your WR2 being a guy like Albert Wilson or Ryan Grant. I think the question here is, can you ad a true speed guy for Alex Smith. And that doesn't have to be an elite FA or early-round draft pick. It could be a 4th or 5th round guy like Deontay Burnett or a cheap free-agent like Taylor Gabriel. Then, at RB, if the team thinks Perine and Thompson are a duo that will continue to improve, maybe they don't touch the position. OR, they could say they've seen enough on Perine and he's just a solid guy and they want elite ... then you could see us drafting a Michel, Chubb, Jones, etc.

 

At the end of the day, I think the team we had last year had few real holes, we were just not healthy. What we lacked were true elite impact players. If we can get 1 in FA and draft 1-2 guys ... we should be okay. Because players we drafted recently ... Ryan Anderson, Jonathan Allen (who got hurt), and Fabian Moreau could very, very, easily turn into that next year for us. 

 

If you sign Sheldon Richardson to play opposite Jon Allen ... bring back Gallette and Brown ... sign a guy like Jonathan Cooper to play LG for $3-4m a year and bring in an Albert Wilson at WR ... I think the draft opens up for true playmakers. DL is set, OL is set, and you have a solid WR core. Now you can go out and draft a Derwin James, Sony Michel and Keke Coutee to try and add that "elite" talent that fits your needs. 

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those are some small hands for Jones

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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In a FanSpeak mock draft I was tasked with picking S Derwin James or CB Denzel Ward or trading back for Minnesota's 1.30, 2.30 and 4.30 or Cleveland's 2.1, 3.1 and 4.1 ... that would be a tough decision to make, though it would be really tough to pass up the elite secondary player there, even for the extra 2 picks. Would probably depend on how FA went, and how many holes were filled pre-draft.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins

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28 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

In a FanSpeak mock draft I was tasked with picking S Derwin James or CB Denzel Ward or trading back for Minnesota's 1.30, 2.30 and 4.30 or Cleveland's 2.1, 3.1 and 4.1 ... that would be a tough decision to make, though it would be really tough to pass up the elite secondary player there, even for the extra 2 picks. Would probably depend on how FA went, and how many holes were filled pre-draft.

I'll take that Cleveland deal. I love the talent that looks to be there in rounds 2-4. Really miss that 3rd we sent to KC. 

Edited by duffy

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I place Hurst and Phillips in the same category to play End opposite of Allen. If we sign Richardson in FA, then I think that negates the option of drafting either one. If we sign a Benny Logan to play that hybrid Nose/End position, then we may still target a Hurst/Phillips in the draft. Can never have too many players to rotate along the DL ... 

 

3/5 Techniques: Allen, Ionidis, Lanier, McClain

1/3 Techniques: McGee

0 Techniques: Taylor

 

I see Phillips and Hurst as 3/5 technique hybrids and Payne as a 1/3 Technique and Vea as a 0 Technique and true NT, who MAY have the flexibility to play 1/3 tech. I don't think you spend a 1st or 2nd on a 0 technique who can't also play 1/3 technique. 

 

Sheldon Richardson would be a 3/5 technique. I think finding a 1/3 technique guy who can also play true 0 tech (3 down player) is a best-case scenario. Bennie Logan can probably be that.

 

Best-Case scenario for the DL this off-season (which may be at the expense of other upgrades) ...

- FA Bennie Logan, Draft Hurst/Phillips and have ...

 

Allen - Logan - Hurst/Phillips

Ionidis - McGee - Lanier

 

- FA Sheldon Richardson, Draft Payne/Settle/Norton

Allen - Payne/Settle/Norton - Richardson

Ionidis - McGee - Lanier

 

Or just adding 1 or the other aint bad either, because bumping Ionizes to 2nd line rotation is a luxury, as I think he played really well last year and would be more than serviceable on the front line opposite Allen. Again, the above scenarios are ones that I would diagnose as "elite" units. 

 

 

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@freakofthesouth

@JamesMadisonSkins

I generally agree about corner and safety.  Love the potential of Moreau and Nicholson was an awesome find.  

 

With Nicholson’s injury problems and Moreau’s lack of PT, I’m not yet sold on them as reliable starters yet.  Moreau is still a theoretical, which is why he didn’t fall in the first category.  As I said though, I’m fine counting on them, but we seem to agree that we need at least a slot corner (because Holsey is an unknown).  I’m ok with Nicholson, Swearinger, Everett (assuming we tender him) and Smithson.  Cravens returning would be another piece.  

 

JHC isn’t a corner, he’s a safety converted to dimebacker.  

 

If we bring back Murphy or Galette, we’re fine at OLB... but we seem to be willing to let them test the market, so I have my doubts they return.  I like Anderson, but I’m not yet sold on him as our first guy off the bench.  He’s another that would fall in the first category (shown flashes but unproven).  

 

I’m ok paying a slot corner, not only because we need one, but also because I think Norman will be gone next offseason, so we’ll have very little invested at the positions at that point.  

 

 

 

JMS - I agree that if Brown and Galette returned, I think we’d generally be in good shape on D... though I’d have serious concerns with the slot role and I’d be real nervous about one of our starting DTs going down.  It’s going to take me a long while to get over trading Fuller.  Could have gone into the offseason needing 2 starters (ILB and NT) and 2 backups (OLB and DT).  Re-sign Brown and Galette or Murphy, sign Logan and we’d have been set at all 4 spots.  

 

We’d have been in a perfect spot to trade back (unless a qb we loved was at 13), and have 17m in FA and 4-5 picks in the first 3 rounds to find a G, WR, QB and back.  Ah well.  Can still answer a lot of questions if we’re smart about it.  

 

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57 minutes ago, duffy said:

I'll take that Cleveland deal. I love the talent that looks to be there in rounds 2-4. Really miss that 3rd we sent to KC. 

Yep, and the FO has been killing it with their 3rd rounders.  

 

Really hope they go with a trade back if someone calls.  Theoretically, they could land a 2nd and 3rd by dropping (twice?) toward the end of the 1st.  Chance at a top 3 back, G and receiver at that point.  

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If you come out of FA with Brown, Gallette, Taylor Gabriel, Bennie Logan, a LG like Cooper/Mewhort and a cheap-isn slot corner (Marcus Williams?) ... I do think you go into the draft less likely to trade-back ... maybe if only to position yourself to get the top RB on your board in the late 1st if that's your top priority. But if you sit there at #13 I think you take the biggest impact player on the board offense or defense (most likely defense). And then you go RB in the 2nd and try and hit the secondary with your your 4th or 5th, unless that's where you go in the 1st.

 

Derwin James + 4th or 5th round CB like Tolliver or Wallce 

 

or Denzel Ward + 4th or 5th round safety 

 

both routes would make the secondary great and shore-up any concerns with depth or talent. 

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3-4 OLB is up. After some stats and some tape this is the JAG class of the draft. Not many stand outs here but there are a few guys. Most have the same skill set in their pass rushing moves and run stoppage. The Davenport kid looks like a block of granite. Looks fast. Looks like a stud. Until you watch him play Baylor and get eaten up alive. Looked horrible in that game. Couple that with his SOS and I believe he is a project. Arden Key looks like a 4th rounder to me. I have no idea why he is getting rated so high. Not someone I am high on.

 

Two guys stood out above the others for me and I cannot pronounce either ones name haha. Uchenna Nwosu and Ogbonnia Okoronkwo. Nwosu to me looks like the best of the two. Has nice pass rushing moves, sets a great edge on run plays, likes to knock down passes like Kerrigan, and has a nice market share score. Okoronkwo is pretty nice too just did not set the edge as much as Nwosu and struggled a little more in coverage but not much. Landry was another guy that stood out at times but at others was incredibly frustrating. Sometimes he looked like a top tier rusher in this class others he looked like he should not be drafted. I added Edmunds here just to see his market share. I still believe he will be drafted as a 4-3 OLB though.

 

3-4 OLB Solo Tackles Sacks TFL Total School SOS Draft Rank  
Marcus Davenport 9.5 36.9 23.9 70.3 UTSA 129 4  
Arden Key 4.2 11.5 7.1 22.8 LSU 38 4  
Sam Hubbard 4.3 15.9 11.7 31.9 OSU 5 4  
Harold Landry 4.5 20.8 11.1 36.4 Boston College 7 3-5  
Dorance Armstrong 5.7 10 10.9 26.6 Kansas 33 3  
Lorenzo Carter 6.1 13.2 9.1 28.4 Georgia 8 3  
Chad Thomas 3.4 9.7 11.3 24.4 Miami 13 2-3  
Josh Sweat 6.1 20.3 13.8 40.2 FSU 20 3-4  
Uchenna Nwosu 8.4 21.1 14 43.5 USC 27 2  
Ogbonnia Okoronkwo 8.7 33.3 22.8 64.8 Oklahoma 25 2  
Tremaine Edmunds 13.1 17.1 13.8 44 Virginia Tech 55    
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
Edited by fordranger76
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3 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

if the need is at OG, and there is so much money tied up in interior contracts with Sherff etc, it wouldnt be unheard of to draft an O Brown or a Connor Williams or even a Mike McGlinchey, as long as they can shift to the interior for now as they are groomed to be T Williams' replacement.  I mean maybe even could consider moving Moses inside as he does seem to get beat some out there.  So, shuffling the OL if the right OT is there for us early is also something that is probably being considered.

 

 

There are some scenarios where Nelson could fall to #13 - and the recommendation would be to take him regardless of the needs elsewhere.  But for maximizing the overall value of the draft year I'm hoping that Skins are able to acquire their starter later in the draft.  If the Skins were to draft Nelson I think Scherff would have his contract extension and then have to be traded before Nelson's rookie contract expired.  Moses won't be moved from OT to Guard - keep in mind he was playing on two sprained ankles all year.

 

Mayock was suggesting that for the WR position Ridley and Kirk were best suited to slot WR.  If so, that should take them off the Skins needs list.  Mayock suggested that Jake Watson Oklahoma State was a potential outside speed guy - perhaps available in the 2nd round.  Of course, that's also the round where Skins might get maximum value out of DT, ILB and TE too.  

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There’s 3 players I think I take no matter what at #13 and 2 that are close. In order ...

Saquan Barkley, Quenton Nelson, Minkah Fitzpatrick ... then Roquan Smith and Derwin James. 

 

But again as much as BPA should be the way to go, if we sink $4m a year on Jonathan Cooper to play LG idk if you draft Nelson. It sucks because he’s an absolute stud. But a Cooper type should fit nicely at LG and you aren’t replacing Scherff. I guess you could take Nelson and plug him in at LG and hold a $4m a year reserve interior OL in Cooper. But that’s the issue with hoping a guy falls. If you convince yourself you’d take Nelson at 13 you bypass upgrades in FA then he doesn’t fall, you pisgeonhole yourself a bit. Of course that’s not how FOs function ... at least good ones. You’d probably just pass on nelson and get the next guy on the board or take him because he’s far and away the top guy and live with a good backup Guard making $4m at the expense of having instantly the best OL in football. 

 

Also intesting thoughts on taking an OT to play LG with keeping in mind Trent’s replacement. But I’d think Trent flips to RT before his playing days are out and that’s probably not for 2-3 more years at least. I wouldn’t think you’d make that kind of draft play for another 1-2 years. But I wouldn’t disagree with it this year if that’s the call and a player fits that. 

 

FWIW I don’t see Orlando Brown and his 6’8 320 frame playing LG though lol

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Doug also talked about running back is the best position in this draft -- or something like that.  Music to my ears.
 
More

Doug Williams: “We need to upgrade at runningback. No doubt about it.”

 

More

Doug Williams says the #Redskins need a running back and interior DLine help. Said it wouldn’t be fair to the team to claim their running game or their run defense was good enough last year.

 
 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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6 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

But again as much as BPA should be the way to go, if we sink $4m a year on Jonathan Cooper to play LG idk if you draft Nelson. It sucks because he’s an absolute stud. But a Cooper type should fit nicely at LG and you aren’t replacing Scherff. I guess you could take Nelson and plug him in at LG and hold a $4m a year reserve interior OL in Cooper. But that’s the issue with hoping a guy falls. If you convince yourself you’d take Nelson at 13 you bypass upgrades in FA then he doesn’t fall, you pisgeonhole yourself a bit. Of course that’s not how FOs function ... at least good ones. You’d probably just pass on nelson and get the next guy on the board or take him because he’s far and away the top guy and live with a good backup Guard making $4m at the expense of having instantly the best OL in football. 

That is why I go after Norwell with everything I got. If you can't get him pick up someone that can start but not a big name. If nothing else you have a good backup. Still leaves the possibility of getting a guard in the draft and if the big name falls we score a homerun. I mean if you think about it what are the chances that we get someone worse than Lauvao. I would do the same thing on D-line with a Richardson/Poe combo. Get a big name in here on the lines. If you fail then draft the spot. Here we could get a Hood/McClain replacement in one swoop. All I know is the FA period is going to be a big red thumb to what we will do in the draft for sure.

Edited by fordranger76

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@fordranger76 So I'm with you here, but I really think we only have $$ for 1 true premier guy after bringing back Galette and Brown. When I say premier, I mean a guy making $10+ million. Norwell would probably fall into that category, if what I'm reading is correct. 25 years old, top guard in the league ... he'll get paid. I think we're a "plug in" at LG away from having a Top-5 OL when healthy. Even with Roullier at Center, which I think has potential. But I think you can get a plug-in guy like Jonathan Cooper (former 1st rounder) for $3-4 million. When healthy he's been pretty good. Then you can get that premier guy on defense. 

 

If you ask me right now whether I'd rather have Sheldon Richardson or Andrew Norwell, I'd say flip a coin.

 

But in looking at our OL v. our DL I see it like this ....

 

Give me a $3-4m a year guy at LG like Cooper or Mewhort. The OL is Top-5 when healthy. Give me a Norwell at LG and it's #1 or #2 in the league.

 

Give me a $3-4m a year guy on the DL and it's probably a #15 or so DL. Give me a Sheldon Richardson and it becomes a Top 5 DL if everyone is healthy.

 

So I think I'd rather have the #5 OL and #5 DL than the #1 OL and #15 DL going into the draft. BUT, I also understand that either line can jump up into the next echelon with the right draft pick. But if we are going into the draft with the #5 DL and #5 OL ... I don't think you have to address either one with an early draft pick, and use those to bolster other areas.

 

It all starts in the trenches, too. That's why I think getting a Richardson + Cooper in FA should be the top priority over, say, getting a Paul Richardson or Isaiah Crowell ... guys with skill sets that could be had in the 2nd or 3rd round, and neither would necessarily make our WR or RB core elite. Hope that makes sense. 

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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On running backs in the 2018 NFL Draft: “There are enough running backs for everybody to get one. I think that’s the strongest point in the draft this year. Running backs are not what they used to be. Running backs are almost by committee. The important thing is to have two or three good running backs. If you get a guy in the second, third or fourth round – that’s a guy to mix with what you already have.”

http://wtkr.com/2018/02/28/skins-scoop-doug-williams-meets-media-at-nfl-combine/

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38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:
Doug Williams: “We need to upgrade at runningback. No doubt about it.”

 

More

Doug Williams says the #Redskins need a running back and interior DLine help. Said it wouldn’t be fair to the team to claim their running game or their run defense was good enough last year.

 
 

 

I must say that I like Doug - Jay combo from a interview point of view. They don't talk like they are politicians. They are pretty straight forward in there answers and cut most of the crap. I like that. Feels like honest answers. 

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8 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

I must say that I like Doug - Jay combo from a interview point of view. They don't talk like they are politicians. They are pretty straight forward in there answers and cut most of the crap. I like that. Feels like honest answers. 

 

I've said this before about Doug -- although I am not a fan of the idea that he's ostensibly running personnel -- even if its a phony PR thing.  However, he's a classy guy with not a cagey bone in his body so you are going to get much more out of him than Bruce in interviews.  Jay likewise is honest.

 

Craig Hoffman was asked about Doug on 106.7 just now.  Hoffman said he gets the impression that Doug is more of a facilitator than anything in that office, running the meetings, etc versus doing the personnel assessments  -- but he'd be in position of knowing what they are thinking over there since he is in these meetings.  

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18 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller said Darius Phillips from Weatern Michigan was also plug and play but raw nickel corner. Had Skins take him in the 6th

 

He said that?   How can you both be "plug and play" and "raw".  That doesn't make sense.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:
Doug also talked about running back is the best position in this draft -- or something like that.  Music to my ears.
 
More

Doug Williams: “We need to upgrade at runningback. No doubt about it.”

 

More

Doug Williams says the #Redskins need a running back and interior DLine help. Said it wouldn’t be fair to the team to claim their running game or their run defense was good enough last year.

 
 

 

 

Wonder how the RB talk fits with the Crowell in FA discussion from a couple days back. At the very least it is encouraging that we are looking to upgrade at the position. On the DL I really think we go for Logan in FA. It was good he mentioned outside WR too. Get 2 or 3 really strong players in FA and open the draft up.

Edited by UK SKINS FAN '74
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5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Peter Schrager from NFL Am, who usually seems somewhat plugged in said the other day the one guy he hears from personnel guys that's hot that hasn't translated to the mocks is Mike Hughes.  He said people tell him he's going top 15 even though the mocks are sleeping on the dude right now.

 

I don't think anyone's sleeping on Hughes.  He's regarded as talented, but he did beat the crap out of somebody on his first college team and got kicked out of UNC.  So background checks, etc etc play a part.

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Hughes has been the 3rd or 4th CB in most mocks I’ve seen but usually later first round. 

 

@Alcoholic Zebra It was from his podcast and i was running so I probably misrepresented it a bit. But he said he’d be a value in the 6th and he’s a bit raw for a CB but could fill in a position of neee for Washington at the nickel position long term now that Fuller got traded. 

So to me, reading the tea leaves from the past few days, we target Crowell possibly in FA but if not very likely grab an RB in Round 2 or 4 (or 3 if we trade back and accumulate one). Good to hear. And Doug’s right. Deep class. 

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59 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I don't think anyone's sleeping on Hughes.  He's regarded as talented, but he did beat the crap out of somebody on his first college team and got kicked out of UNC.  So background checks, etc etc play a part.

 

He talked about that, said from people he talked to they think he's ok on the character front.   By sleeping on Hughes, Schrager said according to some he's talking to he's a slam dunk top 15 pick.   Schrager himself if I recall picked him as the 4th best player in the draft.  So by sleeping on him -- his point is he's neck and neck with Ward according to some but the mocks typically don't lay it out that way, yet.  Who knows if he's right but that was his gig about what player is pumped up more from the personnel people he talked to versus what he sees in the mocks.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Wonder how the RB talk fits with the Crowell in FA discussion from a couple days back. At the very least it is encouraging that we are looking to upgrade at the position. On the DL I really think we go for Logan in FA. It was good he mentioned outside WR too. Get 2 or 3 really strong players in FA and open the draft up.

 

I like Crowell but don't love him but yeah agree its an interesting dilemma if Jay still loves the dude.    Interesting if PFF is accurate on Crowell, they give him just OK ratings and think he's a bad pass blocker -- I thought Jay was hyper interested in RBs who can pass block. 

 

I went back and watched Doug's interview.  I think he might have telegraphed the thinking a little on RB. 

 

I don't know if he said it by accident but at one point he goes FA and the draft don't really impact each other than retraced that thought and said something to the effect that a draft can effect FA.  Sounds backwards but I think what he meant by that is if a position is loaded draft wise it can effect FA.

 

His points on RB (this after being in days of days of meetings with the draft people so I think its legit) is that its the best-deepest position in the draft

 

His points

The running game stinks -- he's not going to sugarcoat it.

 

Running back is the best-deepest position in the draft

 

There are so many running backs -- there is one for everyone -- said jokingly

 

Looking at mocks (surprised Doug reads them, I recall Scot was asked about mocks and he said he typically doesn't bother with them), Doug said only one RB is typically in the first round.  So you can get one later.

 

Then he talked about you can get one in the 2nd round, 4th round then mentioned 3rd. 

 

 

My takeaway from that.  They plan to draft a RB but not until 2nd-4th round.  There are multiple guys they like.  I wonder though if guys like Guice, Jones, Michel are there though by their pick in the 2nd.  If Doug is indeed looking at mocks he will see Jones-Michel are moving up with the draft geeks. 

 

He also played up run defense as big.  So Vea-Payne or Roquan Jones if they lose Zach and then RB later on?  He did play up BPA approach if FA goes well.  But the theme was stopping the run, running the ball.  He also mentioned corner in the context of the draft or FA and hinted that they are OK on the outside.  So slot corner?

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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