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    • By Destino in ES Coverage
         1
      We’re still doing this?  Absolutely!  Despite all the compelling reasons to just let everyone go home and enjoy and extended offseason, this is not an option.  The games must be played, and therefore we the long-suffering fans will feel compelled to watch.  Even games no reasonable football fan would choose to watch like, for example, today’s Redskins Jets game.   

      Today’s convergence of sadness features the 30th ranked scoring offense (Jets 14.4 ppg) versus the 32nd (Redskins 12.0 ppg).  The first team to 15 wins!  With no playoff aspirations the compelling story lines for this game are largely limited to watching young players (hopefully) develop.  Dwayne Haskins gets his first home start and Derrius Guice is back from injury.   
       
      My, reasonable, goals for today’s game:  
      1- Score a touchdown 
      2- Score more than 17 points.   
      3- Haskins throws for 200 yards or more with no interceptions  
      4- Guice runs the ball at least 10 times and finishes at 3.5 yards per carry and healthy.  
       
      Hoping for a win at this point feels like setting myself up for disappointment, so I’m happy to settle for an entertaining loss.  
       
      Special thanks to @pez for some excellent Guinness beef stew.  If you absolutely have to stand in a frozen parking lot at 9am, the best place to do it is at the Extremeskins Tailgate with Pez and @Huly.  Great fans, great people. 
       
      The Redskins have declared for the following players as inactive: 
      Paul Richardson  
      Colt McCoy 
      Deshazor Everett 
      Chris Thompson  
      Ross Pierschbacher 
      Vernon Davis  
      Tim Settle  
       
      The Jets declared the following players as inactive  
      Nate Hairston  
      Darryl Roberts  
      Paul Worrilow 
      Matthias Farley  
      CJ Mosley  
      Jordan Willis  
      Leo Koloamatangi 
       
      1st Quarter - Redskins 0 - 6 Jets
      If you wanted to sit in the cold and watch a football game with some Jets fans at FedEx, but were worried that there were not enough seats available, I have good news.  There’s plenty of space available, so come on down and prove you’re a real fan by sitting though this in person.
       
      Jets dominated the 1st quarter even though they only scored 6 points.  The reason being that Washington managed only 13 yards of offense and a single first down.  
       
      Question: Is it still a check down pass if the QB never looks at anyone else?
       
      2nd Quarter - Redskins 3 - 20 Jets
      The Jets have achieved an insurmountable 13 point lead early in the 2nd quarter.  All hope is lost.

      Is there a more perfect example of the Redskins offense than their first scoring drive in the 2nd quarter?  Interception gives the Redskins the ball on the Jets 16 yard line.  They proceed to march 10 yards backwards before kicking a field goal from the Jets 26.  It's perfect.  Two or three more field goals we can call it a day. 

      The Jets score again and if feels like they are are just piling on at this point.  Three touchdowns in the first half for them, just three points for the redskins.  Our streak of no touchdowns has now extended to 15 quarters. 
       
      3rd Quarter - Redskins 3 - 20 Jets
      There is a spider slowly descending from the ceiling in the press box and it's the most interesting thing that's happened during the third quarter of this game. 
       
      I have decided to allow the spider to live, provided it does not touch me.  I'm off to get some more caffeine. 

      4th Quarter - Redskins 17 - 34 Jets
      The first wave of Redskins fans, the few that are here, started streaming towards the exits after that 4th Jets touchdown.  As if the Jets didn't have this game wrapped up in the 2nd quarter. 
       
      Jet have now more than doubled their average points per game and have matched their season high of 34 points (and they missed two field goals in this game). 
       
      TOUCHDOWN REDSKINS!  THE DROUGHT IT OVER!  Guice took a short pass from Haskins  all the way to the house.  2 point conversion is successful on a pass from Haskins to Quinn. 
       
      The Redskins score another touchdown!  This feels like an embarrassment of riches, even if we are still certain to lose this game. 
       
      End of Game.
       
      Let's review those reasonable goals I mentioned earlier:
       
      1- Success.
      2- Close enough, I'm counting it
      3- Haskins did throw for over 200, but unfortunately did have an interception. 
      4- Guice was not given the opportunity to run the ball ten times today.  He did however score on a 45 yard TD pass and finish the game healthy.  I'll take it.
       
      Even though the Redskins lost, it was good to see the offense show some faint signs of life and end the streak of games without a TD.  The team looked competitive for much of the second half, and perhaps they could have made this a fun game if they carried that same energy throughout.  It was good to see Guice and Mclaurin show out today.  I think both of them have a future with this team that I look forward to seeing. 

       
       

       
       
       
       
       
stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

Recommended Posts

Coutee in the 4th?

 

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/24/texas-tech-wr-keke-coutee-declares-for-nfl-draft/

Listed at just 5-foot-11, the Lufkin, Texas, native led the Big 12 in receiving yards, ranked second in catches and placed fourth in touchdown catches with 93 grabs for 1,429 yards and 10 scores. Beyond the Big 12, his 93 grabs were fifth nationally, his 1,429 yards place second in FBS — with a number of players yet to play their bowl games — and he is one of just 21 players with double-digit touchdown grabs. Only two players with more than 75 receptions bested Coutee’s 15.37 yards per reception average.

Coutee posted four games of double-digit catches for 100-plus yards and at least one touchdown this season, starting with a 12-catch, 186-yard, 1-touchdown effort in a 52-45 win over Arizona State on Sept. 16. He followed that up with 11 catches for 161 yards and a score in a 27-24 win at Houston a week later.

Coutee posted 12 receptions for 189 yards and two touchdowns in a 42-35 loss to Kansas State on Nov. 4, and closed his collegiate career with 11 grabs for 187 yards and a touchdown in Saturday’s 38-34 loss to South Florida in the Birmingham Bowl.

He also led the club with a 31.5-yard average on 10 kickoff returns, including one touchdown.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

WR Rankings are up. I gotta say I love doing this. I'm learning so much just by looking at statistics and film right after. Some guys pop way more than others and it can be seen immediately. There is no doubt in my mind that the top receiver in this class and yes I said CLASS is DJ Moore. I don't care that he is undersized. I don't care that he is from Maryland. None of that matters. This guy is a complete stud. Makes circus catches, tracks the ball like a fatboy after a snickers, gains separation quickly, runs routes decisively, causes holding and PI penalties.

 

The best part about Moore is what teams he was playing against doing all of this. Number 1 SOS. Yes I said number one. Is that not enough for you? He led each category that was charted as well. This guy is Santana Moss with more upside. He is a replacement for Desean Jackson. He is what you want in a receiver. I really believe that he should be a first round pick. He is that good. But as usual this is the type of guy that wont go early because of his size or non flash combine numbers. To that I say great. Let him fall to us. I wont cry.

 

Other guys I enjoyed watching were Anthony Miller and DJ Chark. They both have that IT factor while watching the tape. Tough as nails guys that could help us big time. Christian Kirk to me is all flash. While not a bad guy to have he seems to get way more love than he should. But with that being said I can see why people like him he just doesn't do it for me. For the guys I would not touch with a 10 foot pole segment they would be Dante Pettis from Washington and Jordan Lashely from UCLA. Lashely in particular rubbed me the wrong way. Gave up on plays. Got frustrated when teammates would miss a play. Was horrible with contact. Hard pass. Pettis benefited from a super soft schedule. One of those guys that look great against garbage competition and who usually bust because someone fell in love with them and drafted them way too early.

 

The last thing I wanted you guys to be aware of is the scouting community in general that are ranking and rating prospects. A lot of these "scouts" have anyone under 6 foot rated as a slot receiver. You start to find a pattern reading these guys and you can tell a lot of them are not actually watching film on the players just watching the highlights and going oooooowwwww and aaaahhhhh. Very annoying and lazy. Of course they are not all like that but that leads me to believe why so many mocks are so close to each other in player predictions. Also why so many of them every single year are so wrong. Anywho off to the rankings!

 

 

Wide Receiver Rec Yds Receptions Total Worth School SOS Round  
D.J. Moore 53.2 45.7 28.1 127 Maryland 1 1-2  
Cedric Wilson 41 29.5 26.5 97 Boise State 69 3-4  
Michael Gallop 37.1 35.2 22 94.3 Colorado State 100 5  
Anthony Miller 33.5 31.2 21.4 86.1 Memphis 74 2-3  
Keke Coutee 32.9 26.3 23.4 82.6 Texas Tech 37 4  
Calvin Ridley 35.7 30.8 15.8 82.3 Alabama 22 1  
James Washington 30.6 22.7 21.1 74.4 Oklahoma State 52 3  
Christian Kirk 28.1 28 17.9 74 Texas A&M 51 3  
D.J. Chark 33 22.3 17.5 72.8 LSU 38 2  
Deontae Burnett 26.6 27.8 16.4 70.8 USC 27 4  
Jordan Lashley 28.2 20.4 21.1 69.7 UCLA 31 5  
Courtland Sutton 28.3 24 17.4 69.7 SMU 72 4-5  
Dante Pettis 26.3 26.2 15.3 67.8 Washington 60 5-6  
Simmie Cobbs 26.3 23.5 17.7 67.5 Indiana 29 4  
Javon Wims 27.1 24.1 11 62.2 Georgia 8 5-6  
Marcel Ateman 22.8 18.1 15.6 56.5 Oklahoma State 52 5  
Daeshawn Hamilton 22.7 17.6 14.3 54.6 Penn State 12 4  
Deon Cain 22.2 18.7 12.2 53.1 Clemson 10 4  
Auden Tate 21.4 19.8 11.9 53.1 Florida State 20 2-3  
Equanimeous St.Brown 22.1 18.1 8.8 49 Notre Dame 2 4  
                 
                 
Josh Doctson 29.3 24.2 18.2 71.7        
                 
Jamison Crowder 37.1 31.7 20.3 89.1        

 

 

 

Thanks for the post, lots of good info. I hadn't watched all that much of D.J. Moore but after watching some tape of him now he actually really reminds me of Anthony Miller, who may be my personal favorite WR of the group. Around the same size, though Moore is a bit heavier right now I think. Both fast and great acceleration/burst. I hear people thinking Miller will run a 4.55 or so 40 but the dude was a track star in HS so I don't see it; either way he and Moore may not run 4.30 40s in shorts but they both have incredible game speed. One thing I really love about Miller that I see in Moore as well is route running and ability to quickly get separation. They both just break ankles and completely turn DBs around. Very good, sudden release off the line. Both have excellent ball tracking skills and have ridiculous hands and a large catch radius for their size.

 

Miller has much more production but that's likely due to a much weaker SOS and a better QB so I don't really hold that against Moore.

Edited by mistertim
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1 hour ago, wilco_holland said:

@fordranger76 What is the worth column (colomn? Colum?)? (non-english speaker XD) How did you calculate that? If you had already writen it down and I missed it, you give me the post link.   

I think it's just the first three columns added up.

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10 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Thanks for the post, lots of good info. I hadn't watched all that much of D.J. Moore but after watching some tape of him now he actually really reminds me of Anthony Miller, who may be my personal favorite WR of the group. Around the same size, though Moore is a bit heavier right now I think. Both fast and great acceleration/burst. I hear people thinking Miller will run a 4.55 or so 40 but the dude was a track star in HS so I don't see it; either way he and Moore may not run 4.30 40s in shorts but they both have incredible game speed. One thing I really love about Miller that I see in Moore as well is route running and ability to quickly get separation. They both just break ankles and completely turn DBs around. Very good, sudden release off the line. Both have excellent ball tracking skills and have ridiculous hands and a large catch radius for their size.

 

Miller has much more production but that's likely due to a much weaker SOS and a better QB so I don't really hold that against Moore.

Glad some of you guys enjoy the stuff. I enjoy putting it together for sure. Miller is another favorite of mine and has a lot of similarities to Moore. Would not be upset at all if we landed him. For me the difference between the two is that Moore seems to be able to make more circus catches and is just a touch better at getting both feet in bounds. More of me being nitpicky than anything really but that's what I look for.

 

@wilco_holland Like Panninho said it's just the total added up. I only add that category together just so I can compare it to others in one lump some. Also helps me personally in making my own personal big board for draft night.

 

@Skinsinparadise Keke sure is nice. He falls into that under 6 foot trap which means to a lot of scouts he is a "slot" receiver. It's so maddening to see this time and time again with all of the under 6 foot guys. I also think that they are off in the feel that this WR class is weak. I totally disagree with that and think for the 2 to 4 round its very very deep all things considered. Keke would be a fine fine pick for us.

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1 hour ago, fordranger76 said:

Glad some of you guys enjoy the stuff. I enjoy putting it together for sure. Miller is another favorite of mine and has a lot of similarities to Moore. Would not be upset at all if we landed him. For me the difference between the two is that Moore seems to be able to make more circus catches and is just a touch better at getting both feet in bounds. More of me being nitpicky than anything really but that's what I look for.

 

@wilco_holland Like Panninho said it's just the total added up. I only add that category together just so I can compare it to others in one lump some. Also helps me personally in making my own personal big board for draft night.

 

Thx! 

 

In general I feel this is not great reciever class. I'm not sure what thats going to do for the players. If maybe some teams will reach for one. Most of time WR's are not really 'hot' to trade up for. Or really reach. 

 

Before the start of the season I really liked Equanimeous St.Brown. He ran good routes and had good speed. I sometimes felt he was a small WR in long WR body. But this year ND there O was different and he kinda dissapeared to background. That worries me. Because I believe a smart college coach will always try to get the ball to his best player....  Why didn't that happen then? Is it the coach? The systeme? 

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1 hour ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Thx! 

 

In general I feel this is not great reciever class. I'm not sure what thats going to do for the players. If maybe some teams will reach for one. Most of time WR's are not really 'hot' to trade up for. Or really reach. 

 

Before the start of the season I really liked Equanimeous St.Brown. He ran good routes and had good speed. I sometimes felt he was a small WR in long WR body. But this year ND there O was different and he kinda dissapeared to background. That worries me. Because I believe a smart college coach will always try to get the ball to his best player....  Why didn't that happen then? Is it the coach? The systeme? 

I would say for the actual top end talent you are right. Probably only one or two worthy of the first round and both being later picks. With that being said the 2-4 rounds are filled with good receivers that range from number 2's to 3's and some slot guys. I don't think you are going to find a number one in those rounds but solid contributors to the over all WR squad can for sure be had. Combine will show a lot.

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Super interesting post by @fordranger76 re: the WRs. Thank you for the work on that. I'll have to look into DJ Moore. I'm sure there's some scouting departments that will have him up high if what you say is true ... so I bet he would go in R2. Also, your ranking of St. Brown jives with what I've seen from a few who have him as 6-UDFA ... but some have him up in the 2nd round. For those that have him in the 2nd, I'll now pay less attention to their rankings!

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On 2/18/2018 at 7:53 AM, fordranger76 said:

@mistertim The Payne love is confusing once you look at his stats and his tape. He tore up Georgia. But go back and watch it. He was taking an undersized center and simply mauling him. As soon as they slapped a double team on him it all stopped. No where to be found again. Same thing happens on a lot of his game tape. Can be invisible at times. He does not do well against double teams at all but people love him. I think because its a big boy from Bama. People love those guys. People say well he is eating blocks. Well I got news for everyone. Every other NT I graded had better stats than him and also guess what? All faced double teams just as much as him. That Bama defense is stacked to the gills. He stands out as a sore thumb and JAG. I would not take the guy until the 5th at earliest and yes I am dead serious.

 

Payne is not a traditional NT at all.  I think his best fit is as a 3-5 Tech, similar to what we have Stacy McGee do.  He can do some 1Tech stuff, but he's best when he's trying to get up quickly and into 1 gap quickly.  Once he does that, he resets the "line of scrimmage" and has an influence over the play and his blocker.  I think he struggles as a traditional NT (2 gapper) unless he's single blocked.  Any other OL who comes over to double or do a hard jab before climbing to the second level will really affect Payne.

 

Payne is an frustrating guy to watch at times, he's tasked with occupying doubles during stunts or setting up a blitzer behind him.  It's not often you see him actually get to just try and beat the guy in front of him and get to the QB.  He has some impressive lateral agility with his swim or step over moves.  I think Payne is wrongly billed as a run stuffing NT that's a 2 down player.  He's better as a pass rusher than he is at being a conventional NT.  He can be a dynamite 2 gapper, if he's isolated against just one blocker.  For that to happen he'd have to be further away from Center.  So I think he's scheme dependent, but he can be good.

 

Edited by Alcoholic Zebra

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18 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

It would not be the first time I was told I was on something and it probably wont be the last haha. I am well aware I am going out on a very big limb with my projection and I am fine with it. I would love to get Ridley and would not be upset to have him. The reality of it all is players are overlooked all the time and sometimes guys are sure fire prospects that bomb. Might not happen in this case and I am cool with it even if I am totally off base. That is why I love the draft and talking about it. Just one big crapshoot.

 

Not agreeing or disagreeing about DJ Moore being the best WR.  I think the most talented prospect is James Washington.  I don't think that talent comes across all the time.  He had a great Senior Bowl week, so that's something.  There are intangibles and the "want to" that matter a lot.  We all know that Antonio Brown is not a supreme talent, but he's clearly a stellar player.  I saw James Washington loafing on some plays where the reads were on the other side of the field.  Makes me question his drive.

 

DJ Moore with such a ridiculous ratio of receptions for his college, makes it seem like his "want to" is sky high.

 

You mentioned a page or two back about Harrison Phillips and his ability to subtly wiggle through doubles or a mass of bodies around the line of scrimmage.  I need to go back and watch some more of him to catch that.  I think the lone cutup I saw of him I didn't really notice that (but

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43 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

You mentioned a page or two back about Harrison Phillips and his ability to subtly wiggle through doubles or a mass of bodies around the line of scrimmage.  I need to go back and watch some more of him to catch that.  I think the lone cutup I saw of him I didn't really notice that (but

Here is a good one to watch. He has a nasty swim move for a NT. There are a lot of actual game moments on tape out there where you can see him do the same thing but this one should give you a general idea of what this kid can do. It's long so set a bit of time aside to watch it.

 

 Also I would put this tape against Payne or Vea any day. If someone can show me time after time that Payne of Vea is better than him at diagnosing a run and getting pressure in the backfield I would love to see it.

Edited by fordranger76
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7 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

I would say for the actual top end talent you are right. Probably only one or two worthy of the first round and both being later picks. With that being said the 2-4 rounds are filled with good receivers that range from number 2's to 3's and some slot guys. I don't think you are going to find a number one in those rounds but solid contributors to the over all WR squad can for sure be had. Combine will show a lot.

 

Definitely agree. This WR class is deep in the middle but pretty weak at the top. Rounds 2-3 will have lots of nice quality guys. I just hope we maybe find a way to recoup our 3rd round pick somehow. I'm thinking we're more likely to go RB in round 2 so losing that 3rd will hurt because there will still be lots of talent there.

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4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Payne is not a traditional NT at all.  I think his best fit is as a 3-5 Tech, similar to what we have Stacy McGee do.  He can do some 1Tech stuff, but he's best when he's trying to get up quickly and into 1 gap quickly.  Once he does that, he resets the "line of scrimmage" and has an influence over the play and his blocker.  I think he struggles as a traditional NT (2 gapper) unless he's single blocked.  Any other OL who comes over to double or do a hard jab before climbing to the second level will really affect Payne.

 

Payne is an frustrating guy to watch at times, he's tasked with occupying doubles during stunts or setting up a blitzer behind him.  It's not often you see him actually get to just try and beat the guy in front of him and get to the QB.  He has some impressive lateral agility with his swim or step over moves.  I think Payne is wrongly billed as a run stuffing NT that's a 2 down player.  He's better as a pass rusher than he is at being a conventional NT.  He can be a dynamite 2 gapper, if he's isolated against just one blocker.  For that to happen he'd have to be further away from Center.  So I think he's scheme dependent, but he can be good.

 

 

Oh I certainly don't think of him as an NT, really. More of a 3 tech 3-4 DE like Allen. But I've watched his tape and he just doesn't impress me all that much, even against single blockers. He has pretty good mobility, good strength and seems relatively stout but nothing at all "pops" about him like it did with a guy like Allen, who was obviously dominant as soon as you watched any tape of him. His stats are also very lackluster. Obviously stats are not the end all be all but production is important, especially if you're talking about taking a guy 13th overall. I'd possibly be ok with him as a 2nd round pick but definitely not with our 1st. But that's just my opinion and I could be proven woefully wrong as there are guys who weren't all that productive in college but it turned out that it was a scheme thing or whatever and who went on to be beasts in the NFL.

Edited by mistertim

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7 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

Here is a good one to watch. He has a nasty swim move for a NT. There are a lot of actual game moments on tape out there where you can see him do the same thing but this one should give you a general idea of what this kid can do. It's long so set a bit of time aside to watch it.

 

 Also I would put this tape against Payne or Vea any day. If someone can show me time after time that Payne of Vea is better than him at diagnosing a run and getting pressure in the backfield I would love to see it.

 

Holy crap I love this kid. I had certainly heard of him before but never really watched tape on him until this video. Some takeaways that stood out to me:

 

GREAT hand use. Swim move is devastating. Uses his hands well to engage blockers and keep them off his pads and then disengages well. Good lateral movement with quick feet. Can beat double teams in multiple ways (slicing, hands, power). Always around the ball and seems incredibly good at tracking the ball carrier and telling where a run is headed...checked his stats and they back it up to a huge degree...almost 100 tackles in 2017 (with 17 for a loss) which is ludicrous for a DL; those are usually top notch ILB numbers. Plays all over the line and very impressive no matter where he's lined up: saw him as a 0, 1, 2, and 3 tech. Variety of pass rush moves though he relies on the swim move more than most others. Seems to have a nonstop motor. Rarely if ever gets pushed back so he seems damn strong and has a great anchor for a guy who isn't a mammoth (he's apparently about 295).

 

Only real downsides I see (and they're relatively minor) are that he can get too high in his pad level off the snap sometimes but that's fixable. He isn't the most explosive guy and probably won't have WOW numbers at the combine but he makes up for it in other areas. Doesn't have great pursuit speed in space; it isn't bad but he probably won't be solo chasing down RBs or more mobile QBs very often. 

 

From the limited amount I've seen and researched now I'd take this kid over Payne every day of the week and I'd take him over Vea as well because I think he fits our scheme more and his tape is just as impressive if not more so.

 

Thanks for posting this. Wonder if he'll last to our pick in the 2nd. I think he'd be a steal there.

Edited by mistertim
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9 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Holy crap I love this kid. I had certainly heard of him before but never really watched tape on him until this video. Some takeaways that stood out to me:

 

GREAT hand use. Swim move is devastating. Uses his hands well to engage blockers and keep them off his pads and then disengages well. Good lateral movement with quick feet. Can beat double teams in multiple ways (slicing, hands, power). Always around the ball and seems incredibly good at tracking the ball carrier and telling where a run is headed...checked his stats and they back it up to a huge degree...almost 100 tackles in 2017 (with 17 for a loss) which is ludicrous for a DL; those are usually top notch ILB numbers. Plays all over the line and very impressive no matter where he's lined up: saw him as a 0, 1, 2, and 3 tech. Variety of pass rush moves though he relies on the swim move more than most others. Seems to have a nonstop motor. Rarely if ever gets pushed back so he seems damn strong and has a great anchor for a guy who isn't a mammoth (he's apparently about 295).

 

Only real downsides I see (and they're relatively minor) are that he can get too high in his pad level off the snap sometimes but that's fixable. He isn't the most explosive guy and probably won't have WOW numbers at the combine but he makes up for it in other areas. Doesn't have great pursuit speed in space; it isn't bad but he probably won't be solo chasing down RBs or more mobile QBs very often. 

 

From the limited amount I've seen and researched now I'd take this kid over Payne every day of the week and I'd take him over Vea as well because I think he fits our scheme more and his tape is just as impressive if not more so.

 

Thanks for posting this. Wonder if he'll last to our pick in the 2nd. I think he'd be a steal there.

Glad you enjoyed watching it. You basically said everything I was seeing. Stats aside this guy popped out to me after watching so much more than the other guys it was not even funny. I really feel like Payne and Vea are getting way more love than this guy and that should benefit us. Hopefully they pull the trigger if they get the chance. He fits perfectly into our line. I am hoping to find more of these type guys so I can be ready for them to be drafted by us haha. I am really hoping for a trade down this year as I feel there is so much talent to be had in the second for our particular needs. I think I will be going to look at ILB next to see who stands out there.

 

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12 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Holy crap I love this kid. I had certainly heard of him before but never really watched tape on him until this video. Some takeaways that stood out to me:

 

GREAT hand use. Swim move is devastating. Uses his hands well to engage blockers and keep them off his pads and then disengages well. Good lateral movement with quick feet. Can beat double teams in multiple ways (slicing, hands, power). Always around the ball and seems incredibly good at tracking the ball carrier and telling where a run is headed...checked his stats and they back it up to a huge degree...almost 100 tackles in 2017 (with 17 for a loss) which is ludicrous for a DL; those are usually top notch ILB numbers. Plays all over the line and very impressive no matter where he's lined up: saw him as a 0, 1, 2, and 3 tech. Variety of pass rush moves though he relies on the swim move more than most others. Seems to have a nonstop motor. Rarely if ever gets pushed back so he seems damn strong and has a great anchor for a guy who isn't a mammoth (he's apparently about 295).

 

Only real downsides I see (and they're relatively minor) are that he can get too high in his pad level off the snap sometimes but that's fixable. He isn't the most explosive guy and probably won't have WOW numbers at the combine but he makes up for it in other areas. Doesn't have great pursuit speed in space; it isn't bad but he probably won't be solo chasing down RBs or more mobile QBs very often. 

 

From the limited amount I've seen and researched now I'd take this kid over Payne every day of the week and I'd take him over Vea as well because I think he fits our scheme more and his tape is just as impressive if not more so.

 

Thanks for posting this. Wonder if he'll last to our pick in the 2nd. I think he'd be a steal there.

At 8:44 that is Quenton Nelson that he bulldozes with one arm. Just that is impressive.

Edited by repo_4
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On 2/20/2018 at 7:01 AM, wilco_holland said:

 

Thx! 

 

In general I feel this is not great reciever class. I'm not sure what thats going to do for the players. If maybe some teams will reach for one. Most of time WR's are not really 'hot' to trade up for. Or really reach. 

 

Before the start of the season I really liked Equanimeous St.Brown. He ran good routes and had good speed. I sometimes felt he was a small WR in long WR body. But this year ND there O was different and he kinda dissapeared to background. That worries me. Because I believe a smart college coach will always try to get the ball to his best player....  Why didn't that happen then? Is it the coach? The systeme? 

Don’t have an answer, but St. Brown is really intriguing.  As you said, he doesn’t run like a big guy (except for his long strides in the deep game).  I have a hunch some team is going to be really happy with him by his 3rd year.  

16 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Definitely agree. This WR class is deep in the middle but pretty weak at the top. Rounds 2-3 will have lots of nice quality guys. I just hope we maybe find a way to recoup our 3rd round pick somehow. I'm thinking we're more likely to go RB in round 2 so losing that 3rd will hurt because there will still be lots of talent there.

Very much agree here about the receivers.  Also think trading back in the 1st (maybe even twice) could be really helpful, depending on who’s available.  

 

I actually hope they do land a good back in the 2nd, but the word that we’re happy with our backs has me doubting. Maybe the fact we sucked in the ground game (despite having backs they like) will cause them to take a hard look at TEs (seriously... please), the scheme, and maybe even a G.  

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1 hour ago, repo_4 said:

At 8:44 that is Quenton Nelson that he bulldozes with one arm. Just that is impressive.

 

Whoah, thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realize that was Nelson. So he basically just completely mauled a 330 lb Guard who is considered an elite NFL prospect and a possible top 5 and definite top 10-15 pick with one arm. Yeah every guy has bad plays sometimes, but I didn't see anything wrong that Nelson did there...anchored well, good pad level. He just got straight up beat.

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I wish we had some extra draft capital (beating a dead horse) because I would love to get someone like Harrison Phillips (Jonathan Allen mold as a DE in our system) and pair him with someone like Norton from Miami to play our NT spot a bit later in the draft. This would be a great way to just stack the DL for years to come ... Allen - Norton - Phillips with Ionidis, Lanier in rotation

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3 hours ago, repo_4 said:

At 8:44 that is Quenton Nelson that he bulldozes with one arm. Just that is impressive.

 

Just watched the cutup of Phillips vs Notre Dame.  Phillips didn't go against Nelson much in that cutup, but all in all I thought Nelson won their battles.  Not handily mind you, but I give the edge to Nelson.

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Laconfora according to a web site that tracks the accuracy of mocks had the most accurate one in 2017.  Breer arguably is more plugged in insider than Laconfora  so I take his mocks a little more seriously than the average one.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/21/mock-draft-sam-darnold-browns-josh-allen-giants?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

 

As always, this isn’t based on any evaluation of mine, it’s based on discussions with decision-makers and evaluators across the NFL—and four months of reporting from having done The NFL Draft Column in the fall. With that background, I put together a mock on Sunday, and vetted it with guys from eight teams. Over that time, I rearranged it three times, and finally came up with this. Enjoy!

 

 

1. Cleveland: Sam Darnold, QB, USC
Drafting a quarterback high has a lot to do with comfort level, and I think John Dorsey will find himself most comfortable with Darnold—despite his funky delivery—because of his off-the-charts intangibles.

2. N.Y. Giants: Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming
I’ve put Josh Rosen in this spot consistently. Why did I move him out? My feeling is, in the end, Allen will be a better personality fit with Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur.

3. Indianapolis: Bradley Chubb, EDGE, N.C. State 
Chubb might be the safest pick in the draft (though that can be the kiss of death, ask Aaron Curry), and he fulfills Chris Ballard’s desire to get more athletically imposing at a premium position.

4. Cleveland (from Houston): Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State
Barkley is the draft’s best player, but the non-premium position makes him a wild card. I like the idea of pairing him with a rookie quarterback, like Ezekiel Elliott and Dak Prescott two years ago.

5. Denver: Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA
The fifth and sixth picks could hinge on where Kirk Cousins lands. I’m going with a Case Keenum/Rosen pairing in Denver, and this could be a grand slam. Rosen is the most gifted QB in this year’s crop.

6. N.Y. Jets: Quenton Nelson, G, Notre Dame
This is assuming the Jets get Cousins. Nelson is a generational guard prospect, widely considered better than fellow Irish alum Zack Martin at the same stage. And he’ll bring nastiness.

7. Tampa Bay: Minkah Fitzpatrick, DB, Alabama
What you’re getting here is a Malcolm Jenkins-type player—corner/safety versatility that’s incredibly valuable in today’s NFL—and a front-of-the-program guy.

8. Chicago: Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State
The only knock on Ward is that he’s short. Outside of that? He’s worthy to carry on the rich recent lineage of Buckeye DBs going pro. And Vic Fangio will love his ability to play man.

9. San Francisco: Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech
Edmunds came on my radar late in the season. He’s a freak, built for the K.J. Wright/De’Vondre Campbell role in the Niners’ Seattle-style scheme.

10. Oakland: Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia
The Raiders would be lucky in this scenario—their biggest hole would be filled by the best available player. Smith is a heat-seeking sideline-to-sideline linebacker who could man the Oakland middle for a decade.

11. Miami: Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma
Call this a hunch. Senior Bowl week once again showed teams Mayfield’s bravado isn’t for everyone, but I like the match with Adam Gase. Ryan Tannehill is turning 30 and has $0 guaranteed left on his deal.

12. Cincinnati: Orlando Brown, OT, Oklahoma
All eyes were on Marvin Lewis and Andy Dalton last year, but Cincinnati’s biggest problem was the decline of its offensive line. This NFL legacy helps them fix it.

13. Washington: Marcus Davenport, EDGE, Texas-San Antonio
So I really wanted to put Davenport higher than this—and believe he’ll go before 13. Just watch. The converted receiver from a mid-major school will put on a show in Indianapolis.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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38 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Just watched the cutup of Phillips vs Notre Dame.  Phillips didn't go against Nelson much in that cutup, but all in all I thought Nelson won their battles.  Not handily mind you, but I give the edge to Nelson.

Even more impressive if you ask me. Some scouts feel that Nelson is the top player in the draft and if he was not a guard should go number 1 based on that alone. I think Phillips is a sleeper in waiting.

 

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

13. Washington: Marcus Davenport, EDGE, Texas-San Antonio
So I really wanted to put Davenport higher than this—and believe he’ll go before 13. Just watch. The converted receiver from a mid-major school will put on a show in Indianapolis.

If they made this pick that would seal Bruce Allen getting fired. Way too early to even think about adding this guy at that spot and is from a non power 5 conference. Awful awful pick this would be.

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2 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

 

If they made this pick that would seal Bruce Allen getting fired. Way too early to even think about adding this guy at that spot and is from a non power 5 conference. Awful awful pick this would be.

 

 i wouldn't love that pick either.  I noticed Kiper's mock today has Davenport going right after our pick to GB.  We take Vea.

 

Breer saying this all from talking to scouts-personnel guys so I am gathering some of them are digging Davenport.

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