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      The home team fans are at home, these games no longer matter, and it’s probably better for the team to lose than it is to win.  It must be December in Washington.  Welcome to week 15!
       
      Redskins Inactive: 
      Colt McCoy  
      Trey Quinn 
      Quinton Dunbar  
      Josh Harvey-Clemons  
      Ross Pierschbacher  
      Brandon Scherff  
      Caleb Wilson  
       
      Eagles Inactive: 
      Nate Sudfeld  
      Nelson Agholor 
      Jordan Howard  
      Shareef Miller 
      Lane Johnson  
      Sua Opeta  
      Derek Barnet
       
      There are two camps for Redskins fans at this time of year.  Those that want to tank and those that want to win.  If this describes you, I want you to know something important. You’re wrong.  You should probably feel bad about it too, but that’s your business.  The right way to go about this, is simply to embrace the double think.  
       
      Before and after the game it’s perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that losing has its advantages.  It does and it is undeniable.  Afterall we could be talking about the difference between Chase Young being in a Redskins uniform, or not.  What we need for that to happen is simple.  Redskins lose out.  Giants beat the Dolphins and Redskins.  Dolphins beat the Bengals.  All of these things are perfectly reasonable outcomes.  We’re that close to having an elite pass rusher.   
       
      Before that happens, we have a game to play.  It is in this moment that we should embrace the other side of our demented double think.  While the game is being played, especially against a division opponent, fans should want their team to do well.  Assuming they have a soul and any decency.  There is just no way that I can root for the Eagles to beat the Redskins during a game.  If you are the type of fan that does this, I hope you find someone that can fix what has broken inside of you.   
       
      Pregame Prediction:  Redskins 23 – Eagles 30  
      More interesting game we are missing because we are still watching the Redskins:  Packers – Bears  
      Things I am snacking on:  Brownie.   
      Number of colons used:  Six.  (so far)  
       
      Check back for updates.  I’m going to wander around the room for a while and stretch my legs to get away from a certain well-known ESPN Eagle fan’s boring conversations that my ear phones aren’t blocking out entirely.
stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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Regarding the run game, this is what I see lacking:

Our TEs making contact with edge defenders, sustaining blocks, and getting some drive.  Sprinkle may be the outlier, but unless he shows more in the pass game, it’s hard to get him significantly more snaps.  

 

Our oline anchoring/driving in the middle - particularly C and LG

Our receivers, outside of Pryor, were ok blocking.  They put the effort in (mostly), but didn’t stand out either.  Moses doesn’t seem to be much better than average in the run game, though seems a bit better on the move.

 

Our scheme concerns me.  The hybrid nature can (in part) work against both our linemen and our backs.  Sometimes our linemen and TEs are put in tough positions in terms of who they’re asked to block, having to reach to get their man, etc.  

 

As for our backs...

Kelley is able to break tackles in the backfield and has decent/ok burst through the hole, but 1) his vision sometimes gets him in trouble, 2) when getting to the 2nd level Kelley lacks the speed to run away from guys, uses angles poorly - he tends to run right at the safety - and 3) he lacks (or doesn’t use) the wiggle to make those guys miss.  He’s just ok at getting around the corner.   

 

Perine is still adjusting to the power runs - he’s often too patient (which makes sense since zone running seems to be his strength).  I like his vision and wiggle in traffic, though quite a few of the runs that displayed that wound up with him getting tripped up.  He’d surprise you getting 8 yards through traffic, but then he’d go down and get up frustrated.  If he can adjust to the blocking (and the blocking improves), I think he’s a solid all around back.  Ball security is a concern.  

 

Bibbs and Marshall are intriguing, but I didn’t see enough to really judge them.

 

So, IMO, we could use a good back and I’d love to add one - particularly a guy that’s able to creat a bit more on their own and can occasionally break the big one.  Even more though, I want to add a TE that can do it all.  A guy that can make a difference in the run game but also serve as a threat in the pass game.  We also need to find at least one solid-good interior olineman.  It’s possible that Catalina or Kalis can take that step, but it’s a lot to expect.  It shouldn’t be too hard to upgrade from Long and Lauvao (especially since I believe Roullier might already be one), but marginal improvement there isn’t likely to make a big difference.   

 

All just my opinion of course. 

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22 hours ago, Mannix said:

This is a response to Redskins fans who favor spending high end draft capital on a speed receiver.  A great speed/deep threat is important, but up until this year Smith did much of his damage in the middle of the field.  The Chiefs also liked to run quite a bit of two tight end sets.  Given the make-up of the current Redskins roster (and Reed’s fragility) I think the best strategy would be try to lock down another serious option at tight end.  Even in Davis’s best years in SF his hands seemed suspect.  Maybe that’s changed in DC but in the opinion of someone who watched nearly every snap of Smith in KC, the Chiefs offense went through the tight end.  The guy that intrigues me the most is Hayden Hurst of South Carolina.  His production isn’t great but I think his qb play had something to do with that.  The guy looks more explosive than Kielce.  He moves more like a large receiver.  He also looks like he could be used as a fullback at times.

 

I would also point out that Tyreek Hill looks like a once in a generation athelete at his position.  Smith has been so reluctant to go down field previously in his career but he was throwing sometimes to a target in Hill that was so wide open you really almost were forced to go down the field more.  I’m not sure there will be a talent like that in the upcoming draft or maybe in the next few drafts that will offer Smith such an attractive option.  I could see the FO going down the Paul Richardson/Taylor Gabriel road in free agency and if the price is right that seems like a good option.

 

Christain Kirk looks like a very good prospect and if the Redskins defense was a stingier outfit I could see gambling on Kirk but in a division where you play both Dallas and Philly twice a year you better be able to stop the run.  Vita Vaea seems like an instance where need meets best player available.  Things may change as evaluations/combine unfolds but one of the scenarios I like for the Skins if they don’t trade down is Vaea in round one and Hurst in round two.  I’ve seen some sights with Hurst ranked as a mid round pick but noticed Daniel Jeremiah has him as the 34 best player in the draft. 

 

Cool just now seeing this post. I am that fan that feels an early draft pick on an upside WR is a good move for the team.  I'll say just a bit more on it:

 

I agree in your assessment that 1) the TE position is important and 2) AS is privy to working with and utilizing his TEs.  Even though Reed has had a number of health issues, his contract and elite ability say that he is the guy.  This is one area I think that will translate well from team to team, kelce to Reed, its a nice piece thats there. Our TE depth was strong going into camp last season, apart form Reed's injury woes.  You gotta figure he's healthy and ready to return. Re two TE sets, VD and AS do have the rapport from back in the day and thats a bigger deal than we can conceptualize.  He may have had some drops, but he still frankly is under contract and will be a part of the team onfield.  we have the development of Jeremy Sprinkle who is a much better blocking TE than these other two guys.  all that being said, I am totally down to draft another young guy to add depth, as its looking like Niles Paul is on his way out. there are a number of prospects going deep in the later rounds that can offer some upside here and I am frankly all for it.

 

Now re strength of division and stopping the run- we have great coaching in place, we're seeing development with late round picks and UDFAs, so these are positives.  I am not anti-Vita Vea at all, I do question some of the scouting that says he takes plays off, and I do sometimes question his level of competition... but I also recognoze the need for additional assets on the DL and he is going to be a great player. My point is this- his skillset is not really unique or rare, meaning, there are for example, FA acquisitions that could be made to shore up the interior.  I think Ziggy Hood was not the right fit so its obvious that there will be some solution here for this need.  I just dont think the ONLY solution is drafting VV.  We just used our 1st round pick last year on a guy that is going to be better than VV.  He can't do it alone, true, and he wont, for all the reasons I have mentioned.  Now if Hurst falls to the 2nd? we run to the podium.  There are indeed 2nd round prospects that can fill and perform in the interior of the DL that could very well be there for us in the 2nd. This is a much more logical approach because of these key considerations:

 

-we have elite DL coaching, already is making an impact.

-NT generally gets faded in the draft, thus guys could be there in the 2nd round.

-The depth of position at DT is pretty decent, meaning we could (and should) draft later in the draft and find some rotational guys that may have solid upside given the right situation.

-Free Agents could be had to fill this need.

 

Now- the million dollar topic for me, on this board, is getting a plan together for our WR situation.  J Doc essentially had his rookie season last year, flashed at times, and will continue to grow and develop and will more than likely be ready to take on the #1 role.  That said, it's still a question as to whether he can or not.  So that leaves questions for our WR depth and effectiveness.  So let me just bring up these points and go from there:

 

-FA WRs are going to be expensive save for some of the more mediocre players.  John Brown would be a decent consideration for us.  it comes down to cap space obviously.

-2018 WR draft prospects are decent, but according to the experts, its "thin at the top", meaning, only a few guys will come in and contribute.  Actually, only two guys, according to Kiper and McShay are in the top tier.  So, that means, if we wait to grab a WR, they will need to develop and our current situation doesnt really allow for that.

-while I agree that Tyreek Hill is a generational talent, I have been actively giving the board many, many reasons and quotes to suggest that C Kirk is also a generational talent and similar in many ways to Tyreek Hill, and while he may not be quite as fast, he has more legit potential to be an outside WR, better size.  Above all he is a weapon, could even lineup in the backfield, can change or win a game with one punt return, we need that.  His work ethic and character draws rave reviews.  Seriously all this being said he could be an absolute superstar, most upside of any option at WR, as slim as they are.

-Then the Alex Smith aspect.  I dont think our fanbase will be very happy with AS coming in and regressing in any way.  The microscope is on him and the front office's decision to secure him.  Public opinion of the team is so important and I believe that they will be something BIG to give him help offensively.  Sure maybe an RB, but again you can get an RB in FA or later in the rounds as it is one of the deepest draft positions.  The comparisons that Kirk draws to Tyreek are almost uncanny how much of a fit he could be for AS.

 

I really think after the combine, we are going to see his draft stock skyrocket, and we should have our choice between him or Ridley, and it seems like it will be a very good idea to pull the trigger on one of them, given all these bullet points.  We can get a TE and a DT later in the draft at some point; a WR that can come in and contribute on the other hand, is rare.  Plus the impact of having potentially two young elite WRs that would have rookie contracts is underappreciated.  Would allow for the team to make other moves.  We are still reeling from losing Garcon and D Jack last year, this would work towards having us all feel more peace with that decision.  I know, long winded, but I've really really been thinking about it and i appreaicte the discussion. I only want whats best for our team.  cheers HTTR

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1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

While I agree with this to an extent. If you look at all of the top RB's last year, they were all first or second round picks. Yes. You can get a serviceable starter in later rounds. But if you want a game changer at RB you have to spend a top pick on one. 

 

Johnson, Bell, Gurley, Hunt, Kamara, Mccoy, Elliott, Ingram, Howard, Fournette, Cook and Henry.....All picked in the first 2 rounds.

 

There are some exceptions though..Freeman, Howard, Dion Lewis and Powell off of the top of my head. Freeman and Howard were absolute draft steals IMO. 

 

If you want to know how bad the state of the RB position is for the Redskins take a look at this list. Our highest rated runner is Perine at number 78 overall. Other teams backups are rated higher than our starter at RB. Pathetic!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752016-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-running-backs-of-2017-season

having 4 RBs miss time due to injury doesn't help that... None of them played a full season.  

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2 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

 

From 2017 article: 

James is a chiseled 6-foot-3 and 215 pounds, with strength and explosiveness that set him apart even in one of the most talented locker rooms in the country. He can bench press 450 pounds, and he's approached 600 on the squat rack. He's broad jumped 11 feet, 3 inches, which would have ranked him in the top five among more than 300 players at the 2017 NFL Scouting Combine. You want speed? He was clocked at 4.49 seconds in the 40-yard dash at the Nike Opening coming out of high school

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000844755/article/derwin-james-scouts-see-future-nfl-star-in-freakish-fsu-safety

 

Does are numbers that will pop at the combine. 

 

Yeah I read that article awhile ago.  I am all for getting game changers at whatever position.   I think this team have a number of good player but few great players.  The analogies of James from PFF to being another Landon Colllins and I recall the comparison to faster version of Chancellor -- has gotten my attention. 

 

Not saying I am landing on Derwin James as the guy but if he is this mega talent that some see him as -- I am intrigued.  The vibe I get reading about him is he'd get along well with Swearinger in rallying the troops.  It doesn't seem like we got a lot of Alpha types in that building.  So I like players that bring that as a bonus.  Fitzpatrick is like that too based on what I've read.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/derwin-james?id=2560066

 

STRENGTHS

 Absolute alpha in the locker room. Comes up to handle film sessions on weekends. When he talks, players listen. Hits all the height, weight, speed marks you want for an early-round safety. Extremely versatile weapon. Can be deployed anywhere on the field on any given snap. 

...

SOURCES TELL US

 "He is going to be the dude in any locker room he ends up in. That's his makeup. 

NFL COMPARISON

 Eric Berry

BOTTOM LINE

 Possesses the desired physical traits and mental makeup of an All-Pro safety who has the ability to not only set a tone but change the course of games. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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In doing some team-need read-ups, I noticed that SF Guard Laken Tomlinson (recently an early-round Guard pick) isn't an ideal fit for Kyle Shanahan's offense. Since we are more of a power-run based OL, I wonder if we could be a logical trade-partner ... and what might it take to get a guy like Tomlinson away from SF? Maybe our 4th in 2018 and a 3rd in 2019?

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1 hour ago, freakofthesouth said:

 

Cool just now seeing this post. I am that fan that feels an early draft pick on an upside WR is a good move for the team.  I'll say just a bit more on it:

 

I agree in your assessment that 1) the TE position is important and 2) AS is privy to working with and utilizing his TEs.  Even though

Thanks for your thoughts.  You make a convincing argument and I would also point out that I’ve only watched maybe two Skins games over the past several years, glanced over some highlights and read some stats so I’m a long way from knowing as much as most in this forum.

 

I think one of your best points is that Reed is a player who in many ways is much like what AS left in KC.  I still see Reed’s availability as an issue that necessitates another option at TE.  

 

Im probably more flexible on Vaea.  He will have to be a real specimen to justify a pick that high on a two-gap DT.  I do see him as a three down DT.  I guess I should ask, the skins do run a 3-4 base defense correct? I’m not as high on him as a 4-3 DT.

 

If the skins don’t resign Brown I think Roquan Smith looks like a real option.  Derwin James should also merit serious consideration.

 

Just as a rule I’ve always been leery of drafting receivers high.  It seems like a position that takes several years before there is a real impact.  You also make a great point about the FO needing a high functioning offense to pacify the fan base.  Trust me AS is very polarizing. I have a feeling the skins are probably getting the 2016 version of AS versus the 2017.  As I’ve stated in other posts he is very risk averse and plays to the situation.   Take the controversy generated by whatever skins player divided your fan base the most and multiply it by 3.  He might settle into more of the 2017 version if there are good pieces in place.

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1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

In doing some team-need read-ups, I noticed that SF Guard Laken Tomlinson (recently an early-round Guard pick) isn't an ideal fit for Kyle Shanahan's offense. Since we are more of a power-run based OL, I wonder if we could be a logical trade-partner ... and what might it take to get a guy like Tomlinson away from SF? Maybe our 4th in 2018 and a 3rd in 2019?

I would hate that, but that’s if the cost is similar to what you postulate.  We run both power and zone schemes, so bringing in a guy that struggles in one and giving up draft capital for him is far from ideal for me.  

 

With that said, and keeping in mind that Gruden wanted* to shift more to a power run game (to mesh more with his PA pass game)...

Williams and Scherff can excel in either.  Moses is probably a bit better in zone, but maybe closer to decent in both.  Lauvao was probably about the same.  Long was more of a zone blocker (I think).  So, it might make sense to focus on acquiring a LG that is better to power blocking.  

Bottom line for me though is that the coaches need to make sure they’re calling run plays that work to our linemen’s strengths.  Don’t ask a mauler to pull and run, don’t ask a guy that struggles blocking in space to go after backers and safeties, and don’t ask the more athletic guys to drive block.  Focus on the strengths/weaknesses of anyone not named Scherff and Williams.  

 

* actually, I don’t know if this is still true, I’m making an assumption based off his time in Cincy and the talk when he was hired here.  

Edited by skinny21

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1 hour ago, Mannix said:

Thanks for your thoughts.  You make a convincing argument and I would also point out that I’ve only watched maybe two Skins games over the past several years, glanced over some highlights and read some stats so I’m a long way from knowing as much as most in this forum.

 

I think one of your best points is that Reed is a player who in many ways is much like what AS left in KC.  I still see Reed’s availability as an issue that necessitates another option at TE.  

 

Im probably more flexible on Vaea.  He will have to be a real specimen to justify a pick that high on a two-gap DT.  I do see him as a three down DT.  I guess I should ask, the skins do run a 3-4 base defense correct? I’m not as high on him as a 4-3 DT.

 

If the skins don’t resign Brown I think Roquan Smith looks like a real option.  Derwin James should also merit serious consideration.

 

Just as a rule I’ve always been leery of drafting receivers high.  It seems like a position that takes several years before there is a real impact.  You also make a great point about the FO needing a high functioning offense to pacify the fan base.  Trust me AS is very polarizing. I have a feeling the skins are probably getting the 2016 version of AS versus the 2017.  As I’ve stated in other posts he is very risk averse and plays to the situation.   Take the controversy generated by whatever skins player divided your fan base the most and multiply it by 3.  He might settle into more of the 2017 version if there are good pieces in place.

 

Ok right on Mannix, im just now catching on that you are KC folk.  I appreciate the exchange!

 

Its true that KC's offense, from week 1 when they took out the Patriots, something special was going on that will change the league.  Tyreek Hill is a superweapon and very few teams have anything like that. Thus the impetus will be for them to go and find the next Tyreek, and while Kirk is a different player in many respects, the impact is similar.

 

For example- member in the game vs the Patriots when K hunt hit that HB seam and took it to the house?? I remember Hill as the motion man, and he faked a screen and seriously the whole defense bit.  Having someone on the offense that a D must kepe their eye on and gameplan for on every play can be significant.  we have seen that in KC with Hill, and a veteran signal caller broke out in many ways, because of this.  I think Kirk will be a hot commodity in a post-tyreek hill league.

 

I agree that drafting WRs high is a gamble.  this organization knows that perhaps better than some.  However, there is a premium on talent at the WR position so sometimes the time must be invested to develop someone. we have that guy already.  Kirk has been ID'd as one of the top 5 instant impact rookies which is probably saying something considering that he is a WR.  He can be a movable piece, just like Tyreek, lineup in the backfield, create mismatches, etc.  nott o mention the balance and space he will open up for Reed down the seam, and for the running game.  if they constantly have to watch for the deep ball it changes everything. 

 

I honestly have no idea how this will shake out, but this kid is gonna make an impact and I hope its for the skins.  I like VV a lot and think he would be a fine 1st rounder, and yes if we dont shore it up with ZB, Roquan would be good too, though I have seen some project hm as an OLB which is interesting.  We also have Su'a maybe, and they are pretty much the same size interestingly enough.

 

im gonna edit this is in the name of full disclosure and then just make a couple of comments:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/13/nfl-draft-top-prospects-big-board?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

Quote

43. Christian Kirk, WR, Texas A&M
A quick-twitch receiver with the ability to create separation underneath, Kirk is dangerous with the ball in his hands, a hard runner who can create yards after the catch. He too often fights the ball though, and will fail to come up with a lot of catchable balls. He’s strictly a slot receiver, with a chance to become something of a poor man’s Julian Edelman once he adds some polish to his game.

 

Some of this is true.  He does fight the ball a little and he needs to improve there, and I’ll even add in that his catch radius is not very large.  However, to extrapolate that he “will fail to come up with a lot of catchable balls” is simply false. This is lazy reporting at its best guys.  Also to say he is “strictly a slot receiver” is proposterous, that’s not true at all, he offers lots of value in many spots, is 200 lbs, and has a 37 inch vertical and had the highest YPC in the SEC in 2016.  True draft analysts have actually used the word “polished” to describe his route running, and said he is very similar to Julian Edelman, not a “poor mans julian Edelman”.  His comp is ODB and that’s gonna be his impact.

 

on another note, I saw Lance Z tweeted casually about how his 4th round projection of Kirk was “old”, and that he would probably have him more in the 3rd if he were to redo it.  Interesting that someone can take their job so lightly when some other young players’ career is on the line.  SMH!  

Edited by freakofthesouth

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2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Regarding the run game, this is what I see lacking:

 

Our scheme concerns me.  The hybrid nature can (in part) work against both our linemen and our backs.  Sometimes our linemen and TEs are put in tough positions in terms of who they’re asked to block, having to reach to get their man, etc.  

 

 

I absolutely hate our run scheme. I am not a fan of TE's having to reach block DE's that will eat their lunch, as evidenced by the tons of holding/blown blocks we get every year. The other aspect that really bugs me is we always always run out of jumbo/bunch formations for lack of a better term. First, personnel tips run to anyone with a set of eyeballs, and secondly Gruden likes to mash everyone up inside and has the RB running through 7-9 defenders inside the tackles.

Couple that with the weak LG and C, and it all adds up to one giant **** sandwich. It doesn't help that all our running backs have cement shoes and zero wiggle. I thought Perine would be able to defeat his lack of wiggle with power, but that was not in evidence last year.

 

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

So, IMO, we could use a good back and I’d love to add one - particularly a guy that’s able to creat a bit more on their own and can occasionally break the big one. 

Ronald Jones is the guy you seek. He'd probably get hurt if we drafted him, but man that guy is a dynamo, reminds me of a young shady who can take it to the house at any given moment. This guy has speed and is a true gamebreaker imo.

 

As for the rest of the draft, I don't know if it's been mentioned but I'm really interested in Dante Pettis. Right now he's listed as a day 3 guy, but I see him going day 2. He's in DJ's top 50 and is a special teams stud as well as a great route runner.

 

Here is my list of interesting guys who should be in our range. I want DL in the worst way, but I'd be happy with any of these guys but bolded are my crushes:

RD 1: Derwin James, Roquan Smith, Billy Price, Maurice Hurst, Da'Ron Payne, Trade back

RD 2: Ronald Jones II, Rashaan Evans, Ronnie Harrison, Derrius Guice, Breeland Speaks

 

Late day 2/3 Dante Pettis, rest tbd

 

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Sorry if this post is long on text but I had fun with a mock draft today.

 

Mock Draft 1.0 with Round 1 Trades:

Free Agent Assumptions (Big names that could sway early round pick directions)

RB Le’Veon Bell – Oakland

WR Jarvis Landry – Baltimore

WR Allen Robinson – San Francisco

OG Andrew Norwell – Houston

ILB Zach Brown – Washington

QB Teddy Bridgewater – Jacksonville

QB Case Keenum – Minneapolis

WR Sammy Watkins – LA Rams

CB Trumaine Johnson – Cleveland

QB Kirk Cousins – Denver

 

Tried not to force trades. Also didn’t do 2nd round trades, as that’s even harder to project.

 

Round 1:

1.1    CLE: Josh Rosen, QB UCLA

1.2    NYG: Saquan Barkley, RB Penn State

1.3    IND: Bradley Chubb, Edge NC State

1.4    CLE:: Minkah Fitzpatrick, FS Alabama

*Trade: Miami sends 1.11 & 2.10 to Denver for 1.5

1.5    MIA: : Sam Darnold, QB USC

1.6    NYJ: Baker Mayfield, QB Oklahoma

1.7    TB: Derwin James, SS Florida State

1.8    CHI: Calvin Ridley, WR Alabama

1.9    OAK: Roquan Smith, ILB Georgia

1.10  SF: Mike McGlinchey, OT Notre Dame

1.11  DEN: Quenton Nelson, OG Notre Dame

1.12  CIN: Connor Williams, OT Texas

*Trade: Buffalo sends 1.21 & 2.23 to Washington for 1.13

1.13  BUF: Lamar Jackson, QB Louisville

1.14  GB: Tremaine Edmunds, ILB/OLB Va. Tech

1.15  ARI: Josh Allen, QB Wyoming

*Trade: NE sends 1.31 & 2.31 & 5.31 to Baltimore for 1.16

1.16  NE: Harold Landry, Edge Boston College

1.17  LAC: Orlando Brown, OT Oklahoma

1.18  SEA: Maurice Hurst, DT Michigan

1.19  DAL: James Washington, WR Oklahoma State

1.20  DET: Derrius Guice, RB LSU

1.21  WAS: Vita Vea, NT Washington

1.22  BUF: Da’Ron Payne, NT Alabama

1.23  LAR: Joshua Jackson, CB Iowa

1.24  CAR: Courtland Sutton, WR SMU

1.25  TEN: Denzel Ward, CB Ohio State

1.26  ATL: Isaiah Wynn, OG Georgia

1.27  NO: Mark Andrews, TE Oklahoma

1.28  PIT: Rashaan Evans, ILB Alabama

1.29  JAX: Dallas Goedert, TE South Dakota State

1.30  MIN: Taven Bryan, DT Florida

1.31  BAL: Arden Key, Edge LSU

1.32  PHI: Kolton Miller, OT UCLA

 

Round 2:

2.1 CLE: Christian Kirk, WR Texas A&M

2.2 NYG: Billy Price, OC Ohio State

2.3 CLE: Ronald Jones, RB USC

2.4 IND: Will Hernandez, OG UTEP

2.5 NYJ: Marcus Davenport, Edge UTSA

2.6 TB: Sony Michel, RB Georgia

2.7 CHI: Isaiah Oliver, CB Colorado

2.8 DEN: Jaire Alexander, CB LSU

2.9 NE: Harrison Phillips, DT Stanford

2.10 DEN: Marcell Ateman, WR Oklahoma State

2.11 OAK: Chukwuma Okorafor, OT Western Michigan

2.12 WAS: Nick Chubb, RB Georgia

2.13 GB: Jeff Holland, Edge Auburn

2.14 CIN: Leighton Vander Esch, ILB Boise St.

2.15 ARI: Anthony Miller, WR Memphis

2.16 LAC: Malik Jefferson, ILB Texas

2.17 NYJ: Royce Freeman, RB Oregon

2.18 DAL: Kameron Kelly, CB San Diego State

2.19 DET: Chad Thomas, Edge Miami (FL)

2.20 BAL: Rashaad Penny, RB San Diego State

2.21 BUF: Auden Tate, WR Florida State

2.22 KC: Ronnie Harrison, SS Alabama

2.23 WAS: Deontay Burnett, WR USC

2.24 CAR: Sam Hubbard, Edge Ohio State

2.25 TEN: Armani Watts, FS Texas A&M

2.26 ATL: Derrick Nnandi, DT Florida State

2.27 SF: Holton Hill, CB Texas

2.28 PIT: Mason Rudolph, QB Oklahoma State

2.29 JAX: Braden Smith, OG Auburn

2.30 MIN: Mike White, QB Western Kentucky

2.31 BAL: Mike Gesicki, TE Penn State

2.32 CLE: Frank Ragnow, OC Arkansas

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@crabbypattygood post.  Agreed on pretty much all counts.  Would love to get a well rounded TE - Goedert, Hurst, Schultz and Fumagali are some of my favorites.  

 

I have Guice and then Jones and then maybe Johnson and Penny.  There are a few other guys I’m intrigued by.  I can understand putting Jones ahead of Guice though given who we have/what we need.  

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Thought this was interesting a web site that judged the accuracy of mocks from 2017

 

http://accuprosports.com/grades/

 

                         Year: 2017  ▼                         Year: 2016  ▼                         Year: 2015  ▼                     
RANK EXPERT NETWORK SCORE
1 Jason La Canfora CBS 72.44
2 Tank Williams Yahoo 65.26
3 Daniel Jeremiah NFL 64.80
4 Nate Davis USA Today 63.32
5 Matt Miller Bleacher 59.23
6 Dan Kadar SB Nation 57.63
7 Peter Schrager FOX Sports 57.03
8 Nick Klopsis NewsDay 55.74
9 Walter Cherepinsky WalterFootball 55.46
10 Will Brinson CBS 54.99
11 Evan Silva Roto World 53.22
12 Mel Kiper ESPN 53.13
13 Frank Schwab Yahoo 52.65
14 Jared Dubin CBS 52.32
15 Dieter Kurtenbach FOX Sports 51.55
16 Chris Burke Sports Illustrated 50.52
17 Lance Zierlein NFL 49.41
18 Mike Mayock NFL 48.54
19 Charley Casserly NFL 47.76
20 Todd McShay ESPN 47.65

 

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*Is THIS GUY - ARIZONA STATE ILB DJ CALHOUN, 'DRAFT-ELIGIBLE'?!? 'DAAAYYYUUUMMM'!!!

 

 

 

 

*Or, THIS GUY - ARIZONA STATE OLB KORON CRUMP?!?

 

 

Edited by OlufemiBiz

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Jason La Canfora beeing top mock draft scorer doesn't suprice me. He doesn't predict picks but uses pure intel from teams. He knows which players teams like and just fills that name in right before the draft. 

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7 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

Jason La Canfora beeing top mock draft scorer doesn't suprice me. He doesn't predict picks but uses pure intel from teams. He knows which players teams like and just fills that name in right before the draft. 

 

Yeah that's what Albert Breer claims to be doing when he gets to his mock.  Since JLC-Breer get paid to be more or less NFL insiders -- you'd figure they'd have a leg up on the others.

 

The only reason why I am interested in mocks is some of these guys claim that their mocks are based on what they are hearing more so than their evaluations. 

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29 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@freakofthesouth You’ve been a nice addition to the board... gonna be sorry to lose you to whichever team drafts Kirk. :ols:

 

That's the problem about being hung up on any player.  The odds that said player is the one your team drafts is low.  

 

Going back to the idea behind mocks -- about in some cases its about things people are hearing...I've noticed depending on the mock Mayfield or Josh Allen are slipping in some of them and in those cases slipping past our pick.

 

According to Finlay, they like Josh Allen.  He said at first they didn't like then switched to they do like Mayfield.  I still don't see one of them dropping to 13.  But on the chance they do, I wonder what happens?

 

According to Cooley-Sheehan, they heard that Alex Smith's agent wanted a tacit agreement from the team that trades for him that Alex's successor isn't drafted this year.  Don't know if that's true or not.   But if they sincerely like Mayfield or Allen I wonder if they can just skip him if they have the chance to draft him.  Cooley made a good point on it this morning which is if they skip a QB and that dude thrives and Alex isn't anything special -- the decision makers on all of this should be canned.

 

I haven't really thought about this until recently and that's because of some of these mocks have both players slipping especially Allen.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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20 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

In doing some team-need read-ups, I noticed that SF Guard Laken Tomlinson (recently an early-round Guard pick) isn't an ideal fit for Kyle Shanahan's offense. Since we are more of a power-run based OL, I wonder if we could be a logical trade-partner ... and what might it take to get a guy like Tomlinson away from SF? Maybe our 4th in 2018 and a 3rd in 2019?

 

I would not offer up any draft picks - Skins are already short and have too many needs.  Maybe SF can offer the Guard plus draft picks for Jordan Reed.

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59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's the problem about being hung up on any player.  The odds that said player is the one your team drafts is low.  

 

Going back to the idea behind mocks -- about in some cases its about things people are hearing...I've noticed depending on the mock Mayfield or Josh Allen are slipping in some of them and in those cases slipping past our pick.

 

According to Finlay, they like Josh Allen.  He said at first they didn't like then switched to they do like Mayfield.  I still don't see one of them dropping to 13.  But on the chance they do, I wonder what happens?

 

According to Cooley-Sheehan, they heard that Alex Smith's agent wanted a tacit agreement from the team that trades for him that Alex's successor isn't drafted this year.  Don't know if that's true or not.   But if they sincerely like Mayfield or Allen I wonder if they can just skip him if they have the chance to draft him.  Cooley made a good point on it this morning which is if they skip a QB and that dude thrives and Alex isn't anything special -- the decision makers on all of this should be canned.

 

I haven't really thought about this until recently and that's because of some of these mocks have both players slipping especially Allen.

 

 

 

Lol guys no doubt... this is actually one of my favorite times of the year in terms of football. I love to watch the tape, check out the talent, and just think about the creative ways to add players.  Logically, I do feel obviously that Kirk is a really good fit.  I also have dug in on other top prospects and done the draft simulations in a number of ways and I am kind of preparing myself for a number of scenarios.  Just ya know, pounding the table lol.

 

I do love D james, big time talent, but that said, he had a lot of talent around him.  I dig Vea, I also think Ridley would be a great addition.  R Smith is a tackling phenom and we could use him as well.  Dug in on a number of top prospects and honestly I have come to peace with the team doing whatever they see fit...by now... just hoping to spawn the conversation and hoping to have everyone dig in on this guy and pay close attention to how he has moved up and down in the 1st round, and watch how he does in the combine, among may other prospects.  Its just no one else on any redskin board is really seeing Kirk as the guy, and I am, so hence the persistence lol.

 

Plus there is always Madden to explore the possibility. I have to say its going amazing in my seasons with AS and Kirk.  Also this is good info for those late round flyers in FF.  I scooped Kamara in 12th round last year in PPR and crushed my league.

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8 hours ago, freakofthesouth said:

think Ridley would be a great addition.  

I think Ridley is the pick at receiver if they pick a receiver in round 1.  I know I just said yesterday that I think drafting a receiver early usually doesn’t go well but I think Ridley is a golden prospect.  The only thing that will derail his career is an injury or going to a team/qb that is substandard.  Hopefully that doesn’t apply to the skins.

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14 hours ago, Mannix said:

I think Ridley is the pick at receiver if they pick a receiver in round 1.  I know I just said yesterday that I think drafting a receiver early usually doesn’t go well but I think Ridley is a golden prospect.  The only thing that will derail his career is an injury or going to a team/qb that is substandard.  Hopefully that doesn’t apply to the skins.

 

Yeah I mean the dude is gonna be very good.  He was, of course, underutilized with Bama just as OJ Howard was.  I think it would be a good fit.

 

However- give me the all around explosive playmaking athletic gamechanging ability of Kirk over him...

 

Between the Lance Z ranking, and other WR rankings coming out saying he's not even in the top 4 WRs in the class????, im confused with it.  Last week Todd and Mel say Kirk is top tier, and then their podcast two days ago didnt even say his name as they spoke at length about WR.  They also see the Skins going WR in rd 1 which was interesting but didnt mention the name.... Christian KirkCousins....

 

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=22421664

 

Just peep this tape ES from his rookie season when they actually had a decent O.  Just- why not:

 

https://youtu.be/XvH6wSvgB9Y

 

Dude makes a rookie mistake and then takes the game over.  Lines up in the backfield, sweeps, screens, takes a slant to the house, gets crazy yardage and hype from a great kick return. Look at him tear it up in Dallas!!

 

I honestly think he's like an emergency RB as well, maybe could be more than that.  theres a few plays with him between the tackles and it's impressive, though not in this tape.

 

Once again I'll say that I think Kyle Allen has elite arm talent and can be had in the late rounds or maybe even UDFA.

 

And just one more link lol:

 

http://www.southernpigskin.com/sec/christian-kirk-a-rare-superstar/

Quote

Fittingly, the big stage has always been the best showcase for Kirk's big plays. In three games against top-ranked Alabama, he caught 20 passes for 200 yards and two touchdowns, adding a 68-yard punt return for six. In four neutral site games in NFL stadiums, three in Dallas and another in Houston, Kirk caught 22 passes for 414 yards and six touchdowns, with both a kick and punt return for score. In three bowl games, he caught 29 passes for 359 yards and four touchdowns.    

Three seasons, for Kirk, basically roll into one long highlight.

 

For point of reference, his all-purpose yardage total of 4,838 almost meets the iconic Bo Jackson's mark of 4,892.  

 

Edited by freakofthesouth

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I always go into these simulators saying I won't do trades, then I get offered one and can't help it. Which stinks, because the trade-back scenarios are probably the least realistic. But either way, here's what I got today for my FanSpeak Ultimate GM run ...

 

Re-sign: Edge Junior Galette ($2.5m/yr), Edge Trent Murphy ($2.5m/yr), ILB Zach Brown ($5.5m/yr), WR Ryan Grant ($2m/yr), NT Phil Taylor ($1m/yr), Will Compton ($1.5m/yr)

Free-Agency: LG Andrew Norwell ($8m/yr), WR Paul Richardson ($6m/yr), CB/S Lamarcus Joyner ($4m/yr), DE Dominique Easley ($1.5m/yr)

 

Draft: (2.1) Sony Michel, RB Georgia ... (2.3) Rashaan Evans, ILB Alabama ... (2.12) Dallas Goedert, TE SDSU ... (4.1) Tim Settle, NT Va Tech ... (4.13) Kevin Tolliver, CB LSU ... (5.12) Deontay Burnett, WR USC

 

Offensive upgrades:

- Stud LG ... OL complete

- Speed WR in Richardson to take off the top

- Developmental/speed guy in Burnett to build the back-end of the depth chart

- high-upside new RB1 in Michel

- versatile TE Goedert, raw with huge upside

 

Defensive Upgrades:

- ILB set with Zach Brown and Rashaad Evans for next 4-5 years backed up by Compton, Foster, Spaight

- EDGE locked down for next year years with Gallette/Murphy on cheap 3 year deals

- CB locked up with drafting high-upside Tolliver as back-end depth + versatility of Joyner to play nickel or FS

- NT addressed with mid-round pick with Settle, rotational depth by adding Easley

 

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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Very curious to see how Trent Murphy will do coming back from a season-ending injury and his previous use of PEDs.  I still think, ultimately, he's better bulking up to play DE.  The guy is 6'5 and has the frame to hit 290#.  I also think Ryan Anderson will eventually move inside.  To me, OLBs tend to rely more on measurables whereas the ILBs are more football players.  I'd rather not spend a precious pick on an ILB or DE.  OG, WR, RB, TE, FS

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18 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Very curious to see how Trent Murphy will do coming back from a season-ending injury and his previous use of PEDs.  I still think, ultimately, he's better bulking up to play DE.  The guy is 6'5 and has the frame to hit 290#.  I also think Ryan Anderson will eventually move inside.  To me, OLBs tend to rely more on measurables whereas the ILBs are more football players.  I'd rather not spend a precious pick on an ILB or DE.  OG, WR, RB, TE, FS

Ait. I hear ya. How about:

2.1 Sony Michel, RB Georgia

2.3 Christian Kirk, WR Texas A&M

2.12 Dallas Goedert, TE SDSU

4.1 B.J. Hill, NT NC State

4.13 Will Clapp, G/C LSU

5.12 Kevin Tolliver, CB LSU

 

On defense you add a FS/CB playmaker in Joyner and he's only 27. You also add a young upside guy with some issues in Easley. Both would be low-investment types. Edge is in great shape with Murphy, Smith, Galette, Kerrigan and Anderson. ILB is a bit meh next to Brown but good depth. If Anderson slides to ILB you may have something there, and you have enough Edge guys to replace his potential emerging role there. You add a developmental CB to the back-end of your depth chart and draft a mid-round NT who could anchor the middle for once.

 

On offense, your OL is now probably the best in the NFL, with the biggest ? being Center, where you had a rookie play quite well, and you supplement him with a well-regarded Guard/Center rookie in Clapp. You now have some very intriguing options in the passing game, having added Paul Richardson and Christian Kirk to the mix of Crowder, Doctson, Grant, Davis and Harris. And you draft a raw, high-upside, small-school TE in Dallas Goedert to your arsenal of TEs. Not to mention one of the top play-making RBs in college FB is now your starting RB.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins

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