stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Yeah, Thompson and Davis probably represent our only speed options at the offensive skill positions. The danger with both is that we don't know if either will retain their speed. Will the broken leg heal in a way that slows Thompson down? Will Father Time finally catch up to Davis? Darrell Green was inhumanly fast into his forties, but when a speed guy loses it... he can lose it very suddenly.

 

There is clearly something wrong when our second fastest player just turned 34 years old. But I guess it makes sense when you think about how our starting runningback is widely known as FAT and our 2nd leading receiver (in terms of receptions) ran a blazing 4.6 40 4 years ago at the combine. 

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4 minutes ago, It'sCampbellJasonCampbell said:

 

There is clearly something wrong when our second fastest player just turned 34 years old. But I guess it makes sense when you think about how our starting runningback is widely known as FAT and our 2nd leading receiver (in terms of receptions) ran a blazing 4.6 40 4 years ago at the combine. 

Yep. There's also something wrong when we tried to keep using him as the stretch wide receiver. He didn't do too badly in that role, but it seems to me if Doctson is going to be successful he needs to me a possession/intermediate route guy. Gruden's use of him seemed very square peg into round hole.

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7 minutes ago, It'sCampbellJasonCampbell said:

E

There is clearly something wrong when our second fastest player just turned 34 years old. But I guess it makes sense when you think about how our starting runningback is widely known as FAT and our 2nd leading receiver (in terms of receptions) ran a blazing 4.6 40 4 years ago at the combine. 

 

If you’re talking about Doctson then i’ll just link in his profile here, he ran a 4.5, which you’re right, isn’t blazing, but his catch radius and sparq score, for what’s its worth, is very athletic.  You might be talking about Ryan Grant??  Sorry not sure...

 

http://dev.playerprofiler.com/nfl/josh-doctson/

 

last year was developmental for J Doc.  At least he stayed healthy. He had a lot of pressure and big shoes to fill with a QB who had one foot out the door.  He also flashed some serious playmaking ability (that catch against Seattle won the game).  He can be legit #1, he just needs a complimentary WR, one that can eat up coverage with tha Breakaway speed. It’s hard to find, but again, TWO candidates at the top of the WR draft board could do it. Maybe a late round WR that has straight line speed could too, but the idea of having two young super talented WRs is very very tempting.

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1 minute ago, freakofthesouth said:

You might be talking about Ryan Grant??  Sorry not sure

 

Yeah I was talking about Grant. 

 

Doctson is athletic for sure, and I have a lot of future hope for him, but I still wouldn't consider him a speedster, which is an aspect of our offense that has been missing for a while. I agree that he can be a legit #1, and I think he takes the pressure off our need to draft a WR round 1 or sign a big name in free agency. While it is very tempting, I just don't think we can afford to take a WR at 13 when so many other potential studs at need positions will be there.

 

Crowder seemed like he may have been able to fill the role, but obviously his head was somewhere else most of last year.

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2 minutes ago, It'sCampbellJasonCampbell said:

 

Yeah I was talking about Grant. 

 

Doctson is athletic for sure, and I have a lot of future hope for him, but I still wouldn't consider him a speedster, which is an aspect of our offense that has been missing for a while. I agree that he can be a legit #1, and I think he takes the pressure off our need to draft a WR round 1 or sign a big name in free agency. While it is very tempting, I just don't think we can afford to take a WR at 13 when so many other potential studs at need positions will be there.

 

Crowder seemed like he may have been able to fill the role, but obviously his head was somewhere else most of last year.

 

Right on.  Yeah I mean I have faith in Doctson, he’s a baller and can high point and is very good.  Do I think he can handle the load next year by himself, in a sense?  Maybe... 

 

its just this, specifically- blazing speed and gamebreaker ability to stretch the defense thus opening up the underneath stuff for Jordan Reed and co.  The role has been there in this very offense for years with D Jack and suffered last year without it.  This offense was reeling last year with the loss Of two top WRs but mostly in a sense that no one could take the top off.

 

Given Alex Smith's newfound ability to go deep, and the need for that trade to work out the best that it can, I wouldn’t rule out them boosting offense and WR early in the draft.  Even second round, James Washington, Anthony Miller maybe.  They will need to be day one contributors so waiting too late in the draft might backfire, unless they feel like there’s a guy back there.  To me we already have the developmental player in r Davis... maybe he’ll be ready?

 

The point here is also, who in the Fa market can fill this void of the deep play playmaker WR? No one, really.  The Tyreek Hill or desean deep threat replacement should be a consideration.  Would it be hard to pass on Payne or James?  Yes.  Are there guys in Fa that can fill a similar need?  OG even?  Yes I think so.  Couple that with Tomsula and DL upgrade could be a combo of a FA DT, a later round D lineman (class is deep) and good coaching.  Don’t forget this team and defense was decimated with injuries last year.  Safety is also deep in the draft, Jordan Whitehead could come in and play some games... 

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25 minutes ago, It'sCampbellJasonCampbell said:

but I still wouldn't consider him a speedster, which is an aspect of our offense that has been missing for a while.

 

Desean Jackson will give you a mean look for that part ?. One year gone, already forgotten. 

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30 minutes ago, It'sCampbellJasonCampbell said:

 

The Galette situation is confusing to me. Would he come back, after spending all year tweeting and screaming about how we won't let him play, or whatever he was complaining about? 

Agree. A lot of the reason Smith's offense worked in Kansas City was speed, and we desperately lack that. Other than CT, it often seemed like Kirk was the fastest guy out there last year.

I’m assuming Galette walks, but until he does, I figure he’s a possibility.  

 

Agreed about speed.  Was just thinking of our roster last year in terms of Scot’s reds and blues rating.  Think we had a few blues and quite a few reds on defense, but on offense...

 

Blues:  Williams, Scherff, Thompson, Reed

High end Reds:  Moses, Crowder, Davis.  

Reds:  Grant

Low end Reds:  maybe Long, Perine, Lauvao, Doctson and Roullier.  

 

Makes sense the offense struggled -

1) they lacked talent

2) 2 of the top 7 played injured much of the year

3)  2 others missed significant time

4) 1 other turned the ball over a lot

5) 1 of those guys is a part time player 

 

 

I’m leaving Kirk off - not going there

 

 

Just for fun... on defense -

Blues: Kerrigan, Norman, Fuller

High end Reds:  Allen, Ioannidas, Brown, maybe Foster, Breeland and Smith, Swearinger and Nicholson 

Reds:  Dunbar, maybe McGee, Lanier, Galette, and Vigil.  

 

Include the maybes, and that’s a full squad of high end Reds or better - 2 S, 3 corners, 2 ILBs, 2 DTs, 2 DEs (OLBs).  

 

Not looking so great this year though as we lost 1 (Fuller), may well lose 2 to FA (Brown/Breeland), and we aren’t sure we can count on Nicholson due to injuries.  Still better than the offense though.  

 

 

Kind of of an odd thread to dump this in, though better than the one that got me thinking about it (Alex Smith Trade thread) - comparing our roster to Philly’s.  

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15 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Desean Jackson will give you a mean look for that part ?. One year gone, already forgotten. 

 

whoops. Christ, after everything that's happened this year it's hard to believe he was on the team only a year ago. 

This offseason alone feels like its lasted a decade and it only just started.....

Edited by It'sCampbellJasonCampbell
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Before the previous college season Scot liked Guice over Barkley.  Interesting.  I know he thinks Barkley is a stud because I recall him saying so on twitter.  And yeah Scot like any draft guy gets things wrong but I still find it interesting.  There is another big draft geek forgot which one who thinks Barkley is only marginally better than Guice.

 

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/04/scot-mccloughan-preferred-derrius-guice-to-saquon-barkley/

 

Personally, I'd kill for Barkley.  But Guice is my RB man crush this year (in terms of having a realistic shot at getting).  Last year for me it was Cook.  

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Matt Miller's newest mock is interesting. Has Washington going DL Payne (1st) S Justin Reid (2nd) RB Chubb (4th) and QB White (5th)

 

Can't say I dislike ... not sure I'd wanna wait til R4 to get Chubb though at risk of losing him.

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Just some food for thought concerning Docston's 40 time.

 

AJ Green also ran a 4.5 at the combine, and he has no problems taking the top off defenses.

 

4.5 is good speed. Not the fastest, not the slowest.

 

In my personal criteria for 40 speed threshold, I'd put:

 

4.5 = Good Speed.

4.4 = Great Speed.

4.3 = Elite Speed.

4.2 = Legendary

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1 minute ago, Rogue Jedi said:

Just some food for thought concerning Docston's 40 time.

 

AJ Green also ran a 4.5 at the combine, and he has no problems taking the top off defenses.

 

4.5 is good speed. Not the fastest, not the slowest.

 

In my personal criteria for 40 speed threshold, I'd put:

 

4.5 = Good Speed.

4.4 = Great Speed.

4.3 = Elite Speed.

4.2 = Legendary

Speed is important to taking the top of a defense but it is not the most important ability.  While DeSean Jackson is fast and that puts him in a different league, what made him so good for deep ball is his ability to adjust to the throw without losing speed.  You also need to cover him pretty tight.

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Just now, Darth Tater said:

Speed is important to taking the top of a defense but it is not the most important ability.  While DeSean Jackson is fast and that puts him in a different league, what made him so good for deep ball is his ability to adjust to the throw without losing speed.  You also need to cover him pretty tight.

 

Oh no doubt, I was just making a point to those who are concerned 4.5 isn't a "fast enough" time for a WR.

 

DeSean's ability to track the ball in air mid-stride was second to only Moss. Can't really coach or teach that, they just gotta be born with it, I guess.

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I might be talking out of my ass, but I feel that there aren't many young receivers who immediately come into the league and are great deep threats. It takes a lot more than straight-line speed to be able to take the top off of a defense. 

 

Given our new QB's age, if we are looking for a deep-threat WR this off-season (which we sorely need) I think we almost have to go for one in FA rather than through the draft. Maybe a guy like Paul Richardson for ~$6M/yr and then focus on beefing up our run game and run defense through the draft.  

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1 hour ago, Rogue Jedi said:

Just some food for thought concerning Docston's 40 time.

 

AJ Green also ran a 4.5 at the combine, and he has no problems taking the top off defenses.

 

4.5 is good speed. Not the fastest, not the slowest.

 

AJ Green has the prototypical size and strength and kinda wrote the book on the traditional X WR.  Sure he can stretch the field, a lot of his talent is in the 50/50 ball. Certainly he is fast enough to get separation as he is the total package.  Many comped Doctson to AJ Green, so very similar there.

 

i think if you have a WR with 4.4 ish speed it can create and open things up.  To some extent, a lot of grudens offense benefitted from that scheme, and had a capable ‘deep threat’ in desean who was certainly good at tracking the ball and possessed this sort of ability.  We kind of need that. I see Doctson as more of the underneath possession guy who could break out still.

 

plus remember, this is a copy cat league.  Expect teams to mimic, and getting Alex Smith a Tyreek Hill element could be found in Kirk.  He’s not as fast as Tyreek but he’s still a gamebreaker and could contribute immediately as a PR (major need right now) and certain packages... editing this in, I think Kirk is similar to another Christian, McCaffrey, who scouts were a little cold on last year before he rose up the board and went in the top ten.  They both can play this gamebreaker role. Both are excellent route runners, C Mac obviously being an Rb is a better fit there, but think of the possibilities, he could be a movable piece.

 

48 minutes ago, skinsfan834 said:

I might be talking out of my ass, but I feel that there aren't many young receivers who immediately come into the league and are great deep threats. It takes a lot more than straight-line speed to be able to take the top off of a defense. 

 

Given our new QB's age, if we are looking for a deep-threat WR this off-season (which we sorely need) I think we almost have to go for one in FA rather than through the draft. Maybe a guy like Paul Richardson for ~$6M/yr and then focus on beefing up our run game and run defense through the draft.  

 

Your ass-talking is spot on.  It takes time, sometimes years for a WR to adjust.  Scouts say Ridley is ready day one, hence the appeal.  Let’s see how they test. I mean, I just don’t see the upside in the FA WRs, but then again ikm just a dude on a couch.

Edited by freakofthesouth
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1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller's newest mock is interesting. Has Washington going DL Payne (1st) S Justin Reid (2nd) RB Chubb (4th) and QB White (5th)

 

Can't say I dislike ... not sure I'd wanna wait til R4 to get Chubb though at risk of losing him.

Basically, getting White at all would make this year's draft for me.

 

Be shocked if he's there in the 5th though.

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1 hour ago, freakofthesouth said:

 

AJ Green has the prototypical size and strength and kinda wrote the book on the traditional X WR.  Sure he can stretch the field, a lot of his talent is in the 50/50 ball. Certainly he is fast enough to get separation as he is the total package.  Many comped Doctson to AJ Green, so very similar there.

 

i think if you have a WR with 4.4 ish speed it can create and open things up.  To some extent, a lot of grudens offense benefitted from that scheme, and had a capable ‘deep threat’ in desean who was certainly good at tracking the ball and possessed this sort of ability.  We kind of need that. I see Doctson as more of the underneath possession guy who could break out still.

 

plus remember, this is a copy cat league.  Expect teams to mimic, and getting Alex Smith a Tyreek Hill element could be found in Kirk.  He’s not as fast as Tyreek but he’s still a gamebreaker and could contribute immediately as a PR (major need right now) and certain packages... editing this in, I think Kirk is similar to another Christian, McCaffrey, who scouts were a little cold on last year before he rose up the board and went in the top ten.  They both can play this gamebreaker role. Both are excellent route runners, C Mac obviously being an Rb is a better fit there, but think of the possibilities, he could be a movable piece.

 

 

Your ass-talking is spot on.  It takes time, sometimes years for a WR to adjust.  Scouts say Ridley is ready day one, hence the appeal.  Let’s see how they test. I mean, I just don’t see the upside in the FA WRs, but then again ikm just a dude on a couch.

I agree, wholeheartedly, with this take. ?

 

*(FreakOfTheSouth: 'ass-talk' is a classic!) ?

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Just saw that Preston SMith and Junior were 1 & 3 in the NFL this year in pressure percentage. Kerrigan was #12. All the names on the list are recognizable stars. Also, Jon Allen would have been #1 with the qualified snaps of a non-injured season. 

 

We we are VERY close to having an excellent front 7. Adding an elite DL or ILB in round 1 would go a long way to solidifying that.

 

Did anyone else realize that? Bring back Galette and our EDGE is in great shape. May even allow Anderson to play some ILB although that is beyond my FB knowledge whether that’s a smart move or not. 

 

If if we got S’ua back (doubtful but who knows) that’s another weapon. Maybe the defense that flashed early on this year wasn’t far off. They did wear down though toward the end of the game though, which makes me think adding a DL in the 1st would immensely help us rotate guys in and keep them fresh 

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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Ok so here’s a random mock that we should examine.

 

https://nflspinzone.com/2018/02/05/nfl-mock-draft-2018-post-super-bowl-two-rounds/

 

they have us taking Josh Allen with 1st round pick.  Anyone have any thoughts there?  I mean, I could see it having benefits, but mostly I can see it creating a QB controversy, as someone here pointed out, if we go QB too early on.  Could work out but we have other needs to fill.

 

Don’t even bother to advance the pages to the 2nd round. They have some harsh words for our offense though and have us taking James Washington in the 2nd round.  Not my first choice but it would work for me.

 

What’s most interesting is they have Kirk going 16 overall to the Ravens, so he’s starting to scootch up some already.  Let me say I would opt for Kirk over Josh Allen at this point.

 

i copied and pasted their words re Kirks ability.  The rest of it isn’t important.  Something about an above average QB needs weapons to succeed blah blah blah:

 

Baltimore has to find a weapon on offense, and Kirk is just that — a weapon. The speedy receiver is reminiscent of Odell Beckham, Jr. of the Giants as he can create separation on routs over the middle, but also has the deep speed to just run by people. The Ravens need a guy like this to make their offense respectable.

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I read a long article months back about how Derwin James is an athletic freak with Sean Taylor comparisons.  Seeing on twitter one of the PFF guys showing cut ups of James and comparing him to Landon Collins.  He apparently has the skill set to also play nickel LB.

 

He's another guy I see mocked in the 13 range quite a bit.  Wonder if they'd consider him.  Nicholson is an emerging safety but so far injury prone.  

 

 

Jeremiah and the 5 guys he thinks will make the most impact in the NFL next year, for the Vea and Kirk people. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000914648/article/nfl-draft-5-prospects-that-will-make-biggest-impact-as-rookies

 

4. Vita Vea, DT, Washington

 

Vea will step right in and emerge as one of the NFL's best run defenders immediately. He dominates interior offensive linemen and his lateral range is special for a man his size (6-foot-5, 340 pounds, per school measurements). His pass-rush technique needs some development but his impact against the run will be felt as soon as he steps foot on a NFL field.

 

 

5. Christian Kirk, WR, Texas A&M

 

Some teams have Kirk as a late-first-round player, while others view him more as a second-round option. Almost everyone agrees that he's one of the most polished players in the draft. He's a refined route runner and should quickly emerge as one of the league's most effective slot receivers. Cooper Kuppmade a big-time impact as a rookie for the Rams working out of the slot last fall, and I expect similar results from Kirk in 2018.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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My “it guy” so far is Isaiah Wynn too. 13 is too early for him so it only makes sense in a trade back.

 

Vea would instantly make our ILBs better and immensely help our run game. As our Payne. 

 

Im a build the trenches guy. So any of those 3 in Round 1 at 13 or in a trade back would be awesome. But I would love Derwin James. Maybe the only non-trench player I’d pull for at 13. 

 

A front-7 of:

Allen - Vea - Ionidis backed by Kerrigan - Foster - Brown - Smith would be amazing. And add in that we’d be able to rotate in McGee, McClain, Lanier along the DL would be nice

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins

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Alex Smith being here reinforces the notion that if there's a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round with FQB potential you take him. Having the luxury of redshirting a rookie QB for a season or two is a valuable asset to have. QBs are helped immensely IMO when they get to do this especially on average to bad rosters. There are numerous holes to fill but if you think there's a player good enough to be a FQB if he sits a season or two it's a worthy investment. 

Edited by Berggy9598

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It looks like our 2nd rounder could have some prospects avail at positions of need... settle, Taven Bryan maybe slips, Trenton Thompson, Nnadi, all could contribute in a rotation on the d line.  It’s possible an OG would be there maybe too, will Hernandez, maybe Wynn who yes is awesome, but he might be gone in late 1st.  Or we may even have an RB fall into our laps there.  So basically whatever position doesn’t get filled in FA we should supplement here. 

 

and while I think Derwin James has solid potential, he’s probably not the second coming of ST... I keep thinking someone will want one of these QBs with our 1st and we can get in the back of the round and add a pick and be in a great spot.  Plus a lot will change with the combine and big boards.

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