stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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In obvious pass downs I'd go Kerrigan and Smith at the DE spots with Payne and Allen at DT. We run 4 man fronts quite often in obvious pass downs anyway IIRC.

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2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

In obvious pass downs I'd go Kerrigan and Smith at the DE spots with Payne and Allen at DT. We run 4 man fronts quite often in obvious pass downs anyway IIRC.

I think that’s going to be an interesting dilemma for Tomsula.  Ioannidas was killing it as an interior pass rusher (per PFF), and Settle got into the backfield a lot more than Payne did.  Now, a lot of that was likely a scheme issue (Payne was unleashed in the playoffs and looked like a different player), and some of it was probably a combo of matchups and players around them.  

 

Right now, my guess is that 3rd and long will mostly feature Ioannidas and Lanier or Allen in the middle.  I think another intriguing option there would be Smith, Lanier, Allen, Ioannidas and Kerrigan on the line, Josh Harvey-Clemons as the backer, and then 5 dbs.  

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Reviewing games with coach film -- to me its the easiest way to spot D line rotation-formations, etc.  I've watched 6 so far,

 

Passing downs -- Ionnaidis often playing 3 technique on the left.  Allen when healthy was on the right -- playing mostly 3.  When Allen got hurt -- Lanier subbed some on the right -- playing 3 and sometimes 1 shaded to the right.  

 

McGee just about always on the left -- 3 or 5.   McClain almost always on the right, mostly 3, some 5.

 

It appears Tomsula likes to have guys stick to a side.  So based on last year.  That would mean:

 

R-DE Allen (Lanier sub) 

L DE Ionnaidis (McGee sub)

 

I'd guess 0-1 (Payne-Settle)

 

As for passing downs, Tomsula mixes it up.  Sometimes no nose where they leave the middle open.  Sometimes a pass rusher DE playing 1 (Lanier).  But the common thread when Allen was healthy was Ioannidis and Allen both on the field typically playing 3.   I can see Payne maybe in the mix playing 1 in those cases and they can trial test whether he can get to the passer.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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If I recall, they view some DL as good against certain assignments.  So when McGee was always on the left, it was the strongside of the formation, the goal is to have him 2 gap as the 5 tech and shut the RT down.  Do you recall if McGee swapped sides if the TE was by the LT instead of the RT?

 

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Awesome news to see our rookies already signed especially being the first team to sign their first round pick..

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4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

If I recall, they view some DL as good against certain assignments.  So when McGee was always on the left, it was the strongside of the formation, the goal is to have him 2 gap as the 5 tech and shut the RT down.  Do you recall if McGee swapped sides if the TE was by the LT instead of the RT?

 

 

I haven't watched every game yet, got ways to go.  But reviewing my notes thus far -- McGee didn't shift to the right if it became the strong side.   Where you see the shifts (strong-weak) was via Swearinger and the MLBs.  They almost never played 5 technique on the right.  But played 5 on the left and that was mostly McGee. 

 

The only guy that really moved a lot as for shifting left-right was Ziggy Hood.  Some wonder why let McClain go versus Hood?  I recall some beat guys say team officials told them they think Hood's more natural position is playing 5 than nose.   Hood would switch to 0, 1, 3, 5.  He'd go left.  He'd go right.  From the games I watched he was the utility infielder type.  But he mostly played 0-1. 

 

The other thing that struck with all the talk about Swearinger playing free.  He almost never plays free when Nicholson was healthy.  On occasion he would play back in cover 2.  But Swearinger typically was playing the strong side of the field (so he's typically on the left) and somewhat close to the line of scrimmage close to even length with the MLBs or just behind the backers.  But when Nicholson wasn't playing, Swearinger would interchange from free to strong to some degree with Everett but still played more strong than free. 

 

Kerrigan and Preston Smith shift around quite a bit but I didn't pay attention as to if that's strong side, weak side based.  Galette played on both sides.  

 

I see why they feel so Nicholson dependent.    He played that old Sean Taylor role that Gregg Williams used to call the savior role.  He was playing deep middle almost always.   If not in the middle, than typically shaded on the right (since Swearinger typically was on the strong side on the left)  So they were in cover 1-cover 3 just about every play with Nicholson in the lineup.    Even on obvious passing downs they didn't seem to play much cover 2 in the games I watched but relied on Nicholson's range to allow Swearinger to play closer up.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I feel like this applies to Shaun Dion Hamilton and Greg Stroman for us.  Maybe Quinn as well, with some concerns on him being undersized.

 

 

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@HTTRDynasty agreed on those 3. Settle it doesn’t bode well for in my opinion. Big school, talented. Maybe we just got lucky and some other teams reached on other guys and pushed him to down to us in the 5th. But there has to be a reason he fell so far.

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3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I feel like this applies to Shaun Dion Hamilton and Greg Stroman for us.  Maybe Quinn as well, with some concerns on him being undersized.

 

That what I always like to do in late rounds. In the first couple of rounds the real talented players get picked from the Poole. After that you are just taking changes at high risk prospects. I love to go small school guys or guys that are less prototypical when talking about size or speed. 

Edited by wilco_holland
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8 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

@HTTRDynasty agreed on those 3. Settle it doesn’t bode well for in my opinion. Big school, talented. Maybe we just got lucky and some other teams reached on other guys and pushed him to down to us in the 5th. But there has to be a reason he fell so far.

One ‘hope’ there in terms of bucking the metrics is that they had a much higher grade on him.  I’m guessing some/many other teams had a higher grade as well - most ‘experts’ had him between the 2nd-5th.  

Other points - 1) he shouldn’t be forced into starting early, and 2) he’s got a great DL coach.  

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I can finally say with us drafting and keeping our own players, we are at least slowly made up of guys that look like real football players. Doesn’t mean sucess will come of it though.

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Listening to multiple sources it seems like if there is a consensus on a late round pick in this class thriving its ironically Mr. Irrelevant Trey Quinn.  I keep hearing about how Quinn is a polished and ultra crisp route runner who knows who to sell his routes among other things. Heard some comparisons to Cooper Kupp.  

 

On Settle, he has his fans and detractors, too (more fans than detractors) -- his detractors say its a question whether he will keep himself in shape and his balance is lousy and he finds himself on his butt too many times.   The ones who like him say he's a good athlete for his size and can be a wrecking ball in the run game and even brings some pass rush.  I haven't gotten to watching him, yet. 

 

PFF loves Stroman, though not all draft geeks feel the same.  I've watched him a little -- am very impressed with his punt return skills.   Some talk up Quinn as a returner but he didn't return many kicks/punts.  Stroman on the other hand looks like a stud punt returner.

 

Most see Apke as a reach.  I guess will see.  Some say it dovetails exactly with Nicholson last year in that regard so we are fine.  But from what I recall that's not really true.  Nicholson had some fans among the guys who covered the draft.  Forget which guys but they were two different draft geek types who appeared on 980 after that draft who thought they got a steal in him.  And conversely there were also some who thought he was a big reach.  On Apke I am struggling to find a person who loves the pick.  I haven't watched the dude at all yet.  So I have no opinion on it. 

 

Shaun Dion Hamilton in theory sounds great.  I've watched him a little.  I was just listening to someone from PFF saying he's just as good as Raashan Evans except Shaun has the injury worries. 

 

Edit:  on an aside I was among the people last year on a love fest with Barkley. But now that he's a Giant I've quickly learned to dislike the dude because of all the over the top hype.  From the Gettleman i wouldn't trade the pick for whatever ransom anyone would offer him, won't draft a QB of the future -- all of it because Barkley is going straight to the Hall of Fame. :)  NFL.com has 50 million Barkley shirts on their web site that they are pushing -- and they don't even have one jersey with the number ready for ANY Redskins picks.

 

You got the first day on mini rookie camp for some teams covered last Friday and of course the Giants are covered like mad with a Barkley mania style bent to it.  Redskins naturally aren't covered.  :(

 

I know Barkley isn't a bad guy -- good guy.  But I hate the Giants and their hysteria around Barkley has got me wanting to see that go south. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Yeah, Apke almost seems like a case of thinking they were being smarter than they actually were.  I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he would have been available in the 6th (not that we’ll ever find out).  But who knows.  I do like the added speed and ST angle for sure.  I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt after Nicholson (sorta?  mostly?) proved people wrong last year.  

 

I wonder if they wind up with a tough decision regarding safety.  Right now (although I’m probably missing someone), I see Everett and Blanding battling for backup SS, and Smithson/Apke battling for backup FS.  

Everett’s on a 1 year deal though.  Blanding might not be safe to PS, Apke might not be ready to be the primary backup, but you risk losing your 4th round pick to waivers if you try to PS him and keep Smithson.  

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24 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, Apke almost seems like a case of thinking they were being smarter than they actually were.  I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he would have been available in the 6th (not that we’ll ever find out).  But who knows.  I do like the added speed and ST angle for sure.  I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt after Nicholson (sorta?  mostly?) proved people wrong last year.  

 

I wonder if they wind up with a tough decision regarding safety.  Right now (although I’m probably missing someone), I see Everett and Blanding battling for backup SS, and Smithson/Apke battling for backup FS.  

Everett’s on a 1 year deal though.  Blanding might not be safe to PS, Apke might not be ready to be the primary backup, but you risk losing your 4th round pick to waivers if you try to PS him and keep Smithson.  

 

Yeah I haven't formed my own opinion yet on Apke but I recall enough about the takes about Nicholson and Apke and they aren't really apples to apples.  Nicholson had his critics but he had his fans, too.  I guess will see.

 

Good point about Smithson.  I noticed he was in rookie camp.  Not sure if that's a good sign for him or bad sign?    Yeah Blanding seems interesting, too.  I don't love the depth at safety but its not bad and somewhat intriguing.  I wish I felt the same way about LG which looks really concerning now.  I've said on the draft thread many times -- I don't see how they are going to address the big holes at all three spots -- LG, DT, RB.  Well, they ultimately got two covered.  But one hole remains.  That's no surprise to me.  I love the draft.  But FA to me was "meh" so far.   Granted we got time.  Hopefully, we have an interesting cut or two that goes down from another team -- and its at LG.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Nicholson was a huge surprise to me because one of the biggest criticisms of him during the draft process was that while he had prototypical size for the position he just wasn't a very physical player and tended to shy away from contact sometimes. Then he came here and was laying the wood. Someone either got into his head about it, or the draft analysis was really not that well researched. Or he just started eating lots of Wheaties. 

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30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Nicholson was a huge surprise to me because one of the biggest criticisms of him during the draft process was that while he had prototypical size for the position he just wasn't a very physical player and tended to shy away from contact sometimes. Then he came here and was laying the wood. Someone either got into his head about it, or the draft analysis was really not that well researched. Or he just started eating lots of Wheaties. 

 

There was one draft geek that just loved him forgot who is was.  Had a 3rd round grade on him.  And another one liked him.  I recalled it because it got my attention.  If I recall Cooley thought he was a lost puppy in coverage but really tackled well.  In Cooley's defense on that one, I recall Nicholson was asked last year how does he know where to go in coverage and he went Swearinger directs him.  Shows its good to have some veterans helping the rookies.

 

For those interested, here's PFF's rap on the whole Redskins draft.

 

 

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My take on Apke is that he has the potential to be a really good player, but that he is starting from square one.  I don't think he knows how to play his position and that's going to be tough to overcome because the learning curve once you get into the league is pretty harsh.  Tackling is one of those things that you kind of need to have down by the time you get to this level in order to play a position like safety.

 

I'm hoping he's a quick study.  I think he was our most questionable pick and I think he was definitely a reach.  But it also wouldn't surprise me if in fact he is a quick study and he makes rapid strides and actually turns out to be a good player.  You can't teach speed and toughness.

 

He's got a chance.

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5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 I think he was our most questionable pick...

Agreed. But he will be a core special teams guy and he has elite athleticism to possibly develop into a good Safety with time.

 

I keep trying to talk myself into the pick but I feel like he was picked entirely for his athletic upside, and his highlights are terrible. His tackling needs a lot of work; I’m praying he doesn’t have to play any Safety for us this year.

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I know it's only a three day introductory camp, but I always like hearing notes of rookies and UDFAs who shine. Haven't heard much other than  Guice is a really active participant and willing student. Anyone else hear any fun tidbits?

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Just watched the PFF video about the draft which I posted here.

 

Highlights

 

Payne:  they like but don't love, slight reach, if he was the guy you saw most of the season, he's 2nd round kind of guy.  If he is who he was in his career game against Georgia, he's a first rounder.  I recall one of the same PFF guys who is in that video thinks Vea is the better player.  The one guy who liked the pick more than other reminded that he scored better metric wise than Robinson, Reed, Tomlinson.

 

Guice:  they also like but don't love.  They don't factor injuries last year at all -- to them it never happened.  They just deduced his increased work load in 2017 is the reason for a decrease in production from 2016 when he was great under their metrics.  That's something PFF has in common with Cooley -- neither seems to have any idea of or give any credit to him playing banged up in 2017.  Most draft geeks point out the 2016 injuries in a big way as to Guice but these guys don't even acknowledge it.

 

Christian:  They like, didn't seem to gush but like his potential.

 

Apke:  projection, needs to develop.  He was overdrafted as to production on the field but his speed is tantalizing

 

Settle:  I recall one of those PFF guys was complementary of Settle although didn't gush about him in a radio interview.  In that video, he was rougher.  He sees the burst even though his combine testing was terrible. But he thinks he ended up on the ground too much, struggled to separate off of blocks, didn't have the balance to finish plays.  He looked like a 3 technique in a nose tackle spot.

 

Hamilton: They like him but they are not sure if he will recapture his athleticism post injury.

 

Stroman:  scored great under their metrics, like him a lot as a 7th rounder

 

Quinn:  Dominated from the slot.  Graded better metrics wise than his teammate Sutton.  Really good pick.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, seantaylor=god said:

I keep trying to talk myself into the pick but I feel like he was picked entirely for his athletic upside, and his highlights are terrible. His tackling needs a lot of work; I’m praying he doesn’t have to play any Safety for us this year.

 

Feels like an NFL draft pick at safety should be one of the two or three best tacklers on his team, even at a school like Penn State.  Apke looks like what he is, a converted wide receiver whose only experience as a tackler is from playing special teams.

 

He's an interesting experiment to see how much you can teach the position at the NFL level.  Specifically, how much you can improve with coverage footwork and recognition and with tackling?

 

One thing I think he has going  for him is that he looks very willing.  He'll play downhill.

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@stevemcqueen1Lots of great points regarding Apke, all of which I agree with.  I can definitely understand having some tackling issues as he only had the one year of actual game experience with it (and I can’t imagine they got a lot of tackling experience in practice).  

 

The coverage issues though, that’s something I’d expect that even two years as a backup should have helped (and probably did), but he still seems pretty far behind the 8 ball.  As you said, it will be a great test of how much coaching can help.  He’s got a pretty good group to help bring him along between Gray and his teammates.  

 

I actually think it could help him that Nicholson is a young guy too, in that I imagine Nicholson will still be coached on the fundamentals, whereas a vet might be working on specific things that are overwhelming to a young guy.  If I’m wrong, well, he still has Swearinger to learn from as well. 

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