stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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18 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Wouldn't it be something if we drafted DaShawn Hand.....

 

Did Shaq Griffin get drafted yet? Really want us get him if he's available. Looks like beast. Definitely could help our ST...

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4 minutes ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

 

Did Shaq Griffin get drafted yet? Really want us get him if he's available. Looks like beast. Definitely could help our ST...

He got drafted to the Seahawks. He gets to play with his brother. I really like him as a player, but you could see what it meant to him to be a Seahawk and play ball with his brother. I wouldn't have wanted to be the team that denied him that. I'm sure he would have been stoked just to be drafted but he ended up in his dream spot.

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6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

@PokerPackerCongrats on getting St. Brown man.  Pretty sweet value in the 6th.  

I couldn't believe he fell that far.  I wasn't able to watch the last day live, but I was checking in on my phone every now and then and kept seeing his name not in the list of guys taken.  And I'd given up on the Packers taking him after they drafted two other WRs ahead of him.

 

Sure are a lot of names left on the board after the draft concluded that I thought would have and perhaps should have been taken.

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16 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

My opinion is that this has a chance to be a great class.  It looks like we took BPA at every position and got a lot of draft value.  I think we may have gone high in the valuation of the safety a bit, based on his absurdly good combine.  But he's certainly got the physical tools to justify his draft slot.  Everyone else is pretty easy to justify at their slot.

 

I think we did take on a somewhat uncomfortable amount of risk in most of our picks, but the upside is good and we should get some hits.  I think the FO were swinging for the fences this weekend, and I can't fault that approach even if only a couple of these guys pan out. 

 

I think our class was a display of confidence in our staff's ability to teach and develop raw talent.  I think it's the right approach because Callahan, Gray, and Tomsula are all very strong position coaches.

 

I don't think it's out of the question that we get an abnormally high hit rate from this particular group and four or five of these guys end up being good players for us during their rookie contracts.

When it's all said and done, at this point in time the fo hit a home run. They absolutely killed this draft as a whole, very happy with it. 

As you said about developing drafted players, the team has actually been pretty good at that over the last 5-7 years. Moses, Dunbar, Fuller, Long, Breeland, Murphy, Lanier and more have all been built up and developed by this coaching staff.

There are plenty more but those are guys off the top of my head that were not top 10 draft picks but developed into good players and starters in this league. 

 

It's been slow going with the Gruden regime, but they're making progress in the personnel development/building department. Eventually we'll have sufficient talent and depth to be a really good team for a long time, and can just keep developing, plugging and playing guys into spots vacated by previous players. It gives me hope for the future.

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What am I missing with Greg Stroman? His highlights look great. His combine was solid, if not spectacular. He has special teams value. His scouting report, which I'm attaching below, describes him as being excellent in coverage and a ball hawk. They list his weaknesses as having a small frame and losing jump balls. He doesn't look like a 7th round pick to me. He looks like a 4th round pick with a chance to be an excellent nickel back. 


Has anyone here watched him? Is there a reason he was available so late? Can he play in the slot? He could be a great Fuller replacement. 

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23 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

What am I missing with Greg Stroman? His highlights look great. His combine was solid, if not spectacular. He has special teams value. His scouting report, which I'm attaching below, describes him as being excellent in coverage and a ball hawk. They list his weaknesses as having a small frame and losing jump balls. He doesn't look like a 7th round pick to me. He looks like a 4th round pick with a chance to be an excellent nickel back. 


Has anyone here watched him? Is there a reason he was available so late? Can he play in the slot? He could be a great Fuller replacement. 

He’s not a great tackler. Deion Sanders mode of a corner. Obviously without the great cover skills. 

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I went back after hanging my head about drafting Payne first round over James and Edmunds and watched some film with fresh eyes hoping something has changed. Sadly for me it has not. I could not get excited for him after watching cut ups again. I still see the same issues even though he now wears the Burgundy and Gold. I wish I could get on board here but I just cant. Hopefully he can change my mind.

 

Guice on the other hand I like. I was not high on him initially in the process but have grown not only to like the pick but love it. Johnson was my wish here but I believe I will be more than happy with Guice. The tackle I was less impressed about and still am. While I do not hate it I think we should have went in a different direction with a 3rd rounder. The safety I think could have been taken later on as well but I wont buck them on this pick. Guy is a bullet on the field and is a good teams guy.

 

Of the remaining picks I loved the Settle snag in the 5th. I think ultimately we get more out of him than Payne. Luke warm on the Hamilton pick but I think he can bump one of the backups off the team if healthy. Is not a dummy and can call plays so that is a big thumbs up from me. Stroman is depth to me. Not expecting much out of him at all. Loved the Quinn pick. I am thinking he will hold down the number 4 receiver spot when the dust settles and I have a sneaking suspicion that he will be Crowder's replacement. Love the pick.

 

Lastly I would like to thank the work of @Skinsinparadise, the tape review of @clskinsfan, the thorough discussion and takes from @JamesMadisonSkins, and lastly sharing pretty much the same mindset as @mistertim. I really enjoyed discussing this draft with all of you guys and many others. It was the most enjoyable time I have had yet on this board and look forward to more interesting if not entertaining discussions in the future!

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10 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Is there a reason he was available so late?

 

He's a good football player but he doesn't have an NFL body.  He's very slender at the joints and hips and he has chicken legs.  You can get guys stronger, but his play strength is never going to be any good.  The reason he was available late is because there's not much you can do about a player's body when they lack NFL attributes like speed, or in Stroman's case, size.  It will always limit his ceiling.

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The 2018 draft class was:

 

- Very strong at quarterback

- Strong at interior defensive lineman

- Strong at running back

- Strong at guard

- Fairly strong at center

- Fairly strong at safety

- Fairly strong at corner

- Mediocre at stack linebacker

- Mediocre at tight end

- Weak at offensive tackle

- Very weak at wide receiver

- Very weak at edge rusher

 

I'm very pleased that we took advantage of the strong DT and RB class to get three high value prospects at the positions.  And I'm happy we were able to find a good value on a tackle in the third.  That nice trade down and selection to get Christian could end up being the steal of the draft because I believe he has a chance to develop into a quality starting LT who saves us the trouble of having to spend a high draft pick on the position once Trent declines.  This was a pretty ugly tackle class, we were lucky here.

 

This was an A draft and the only real knock against it is that we didn't take advantage of the QB class.  QB is the elephant in the room, but we should still have some time before Alex Smith is done to find one.

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As to what was stated above, next year we should be looking hard at QB and LT. 

 

Trent is so good but his injury history and salary will eventually reach a crescendo within 2-3 years.  

 

smith th has been very healthy but Father Time slowly degrades ability. Might be good to get bookend and franchise qb on the same year or within a year of each other and let them grow. 

 

Meanwhile, ill enjoy having good vets at both spots!!

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On 4/30/2018 at 8:50 AM, fordranger76 said:

 

Of the remaining picks I loved the Settle snag in the 5th. I think ultimately we get more out of him than Payne. 

I hope they both work out well, both are very young and talented, payne is more athletic. I am just concerned with settle becoming a beached whale once he gets money and must self motivate. I think Payne will suprise people this year. I won't argue he was a need based pick at least as much as pure talent though. 

 

 

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Seems like the entire nfc east did well, according to the experts.  We will know in 3 years or so

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3 minutes ago, zoony said:

Seems like the entire nfc east did well, according to the experts.  We will know in 3 years or so

 

I think the Giants and Cowboys drafted well, although I don't think Kyle Lauletta is New York's future, and the failure to take advantage of a once in a generation QB class when they had the #2 pick could haunt them for a long time.  They need to pray that they either get a franchise QB next year or that Darnold, Allen, and Rosen all bust.  Because if not, and if one of those guys turns into a good QB, Saquon Barkley could be the combination of Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Jim Brown and picking him would still be a costly mistake.

 

I don't see how anyone could think the Eagles had a good draft.  They picked five guys, four of whom were outside the top 100.  Their picks outside of the TE were an undersized nickel corner who will never be a starter, an edge rusher who can't play the run, can't rush inside, and isn't actually a good pass rusher plus he has a bad knee; a slow offensive lineman who'll eat himself out of the league in a year or two, and a guy who has never played football before.  They're going to end up getting like one guy out of this haul.  If that had been a Redskins class we'd be getting killed for it, and rightfully so.

 

And to make matters worse, that trade down they made sucked too.  They dropped almost a full round from the first and only got a future second from it, or the equivalent of a current third.  And Baltimore did it to take a QB!  And then they had to trade back up in the second to get in front of Dallas to take a TE.

 

They had an awful draft.  Their best moment was David Akers getting to troll the Dallas fans because they finally got a trophy.

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I recall some here respected, Zierlein, he ranked the Redskins class as the 17th best class of players from this draft.  Personally, I'd easily grade it top 10, so I disagree with him on it.  But its a good snap shot of every team's draft if you go through his list.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930807/article/2018-nfl-draft-class-power-rankings-teams-1724

 

 

 

NOTE: Click through the tabs above to see the rankings for every team.

 

RANK

17

WAS.png

REDSKINS

 

 

Draft picks: Alabama DT Da'Ron Payne (No. 13 overall), LSU RB Derrius Guice (No. 59 overall), Louisville OT Geron Christian (No. 74 overall), Penn State S Troy Apke (No. 109 overall), Virginia Tech DT Tim Settle (No. 163 overall), Alabama LB Shaun Dion Hamilton (No. 197 overall), Virginia Tech CB Greg Stroman (No. 241 overall), SMU WR Trey Quinn (No. 256 overall). 

Analysis: I certainly love the additions of Payne and Guice. However, I thought beyond the first two rounds, the Redskins took some major chances. Christian is talented but might lack the requisite play strength, while Apke was more of a workout warrior than effective safety prospect, in my estimation. I'm a fan of Settle, and he could be a nice find in Round 5 if the big man can keep his weight in check.

 

 

 
Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I’m curious who the the next player on their board was after Guice.  

 

I’m really of two minds about the draft.  Love the way they addressed two of our biggest weaknesses - RB (though there was an element of luck there), and dline - but most of the rest of the picks are questionable.  By questionable, I mean either they maybe reached a bit, or the players have legit questions, etc.  They gambled on upside though, which I respect.  They also addressed ST (especially punt return), slot corner, and picked up potential replacements for guys in their final year (Nsheke and Crowder).  

 

Anyway, it’s over and I’m excited to see what these guys can do.  Figure out LG and slot corner, and let’s see how these guys and the rest of our youth develops.  Feeling pretty good about this team overall.  

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12 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I’m curious who the the next player on their board was after Guice.  

 

I’m really of two minds about the draft.  Love the way they addressed two of our biggest weaknesses - RB (though there was an element of luck there), and dline - but most of the rest of the picks are questionable.  By questionable, I mean either they maybe reached a bit, or the players have legit questions, etc.  They gambled on upside though, which I respect.  They also addressed ST (especially punt return), slot corner, and picked up potential replacements for guys in their final year (Nsheke and Crowder).  

 

Anyway, it’s over and I’m excited to see what these guys can do.  Figure out LG and slot corner, and let’s see how these guys and the rest of our youth develops.  Feeling pretty good about this team overall.  

 

While I don't love pick #1, not even close, don't hate it either.  But Payne and adding Settle in the 5th doubles up on stopping the run.  Guice I think will transform the run game. That's the pick I Iove.  So they addressed their two biggest weaknesses.   

 

As for the rest of the draft, hard call.  In theory I like a lot of the guys.  But heck in theory-on paper players picked in all rounds typically feel good -- there is always a narrative and rationale behind every pick so if you cling to those narratives -- it feels good.  Ultimately, though most of these other guys statistically speaking will be either role players or busts with maybe a surprise starter in that mix.  That's just the odds in a typical draft.   But its tough to remember the last draft where most people didn't feel good right after it.   That's part of the fun of the draft -- selling hope.

 

For example is Greg Stroman this stud return guy, playmaker in the slot or is he going to be just a guy?  Will find out.  In theory at this point, no one is just a guy.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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OF COARSE Zuerlien has the “Cowboys” in the top 5. 

 

He he chastised us by saying our first two rounds were the only reason he didn’t give us a lower ranking, yet used the same logic to justify the Cowboys high ranking. 

 

Surrrrrreee. There’s no media bias.??

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11 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I’m curious who the the next player on their board was after Guice.  

 

I’m really of two minds about the draft.  Love the way they addressed two of our biggest weaknesses - RB (though there was an element of luck there), and dline - but most of the rest of the picks are questionable.  By questionable, I mean either they maybe reached a bit, or the players have legit questions, etc.  They gambled on upside though, which I respect.  They also addressed ST (especially punt return), slot corner, and picked up potential replacements for guys in their final year (Nsheke and Crowder).  

 

Anyway, it’s over and I’m excited to see what these guys can do.  Figure out LG and slot corner, and let’s see how these guys and the rest of our youth develops.  Feeling pretty good about this team overall.  

That's a really interesting POV. I can sort of see this draft in four phases.

 

Steals and picks I love:

Payne, Guise, and Settle

 

Picks that made me scratch my head

Christian and Apke

 

Cool moves made for the future: Hamilton, special teams, or necessary depth

Stroman, Hamilton, Quinn (and a couple UDFAs)

 

Moves that made me lose my launch, scream, rant, rave and go nuts

None

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@SkinsinparadiseAbsolutely.  

 

I wasn't quite as down on the Payne pick as you, but I didn’t watch any film on him.  So I was caught between resident expert opinions (who’s opinions I value/respect).  

 

Stroman - if he were about 10 pounds heavier I’d be thrilled with the pick... worked with Gray (and all that entails moving forward), potential slot starter - big area of need as of now - and a punt returner... that’s awesome.  

 

We got a starting dlineman and starting back, depth at OT, S, ILB, slot corner, (slot) receiver and dline, and there’s a chance some of those guys are starting for us this year or next.  That looks pretty darn good on paper.  

 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I recall some here respected, Zierlein, he ranked the Redskins class as the 17th best class of players from this draft.  Personally, I'd easily grade it top 10, so I disagree with him on it.  But its a good snap shot of every team's draft if you go through his list.

 

I had a feeling he'd rank us low.  He had very high grades on Guice and Payne, and would have viewed those as big value picks.  He also had a pretty high grade on Settle at 5.8+, so that'd be a big value pick according to him too.  But he had pretty low grades on Christian and Apke.  His Apke grade would have put him in 7th round/UDFA territory, which would make the Christian and Apke picks major reaches, canceling out the value accrued in the Guice and Settle selections.  He also had a pretty low grade on Shaun Dion Hamilton--lower than our 7th round selections.  He thinks we did some reaching.

 

Personally, I think he ranked us low.  He might be right about Apke, I'm not sure that he can actually play.  I'd say the quality of his special teams play is a mitigating factor and suggests that he is indeed a football player, he just needs to be taught how to play safety and he needs to get them reps. 

 

But I think he's too low on Christian.  At the end of the day, he projected Christian to go 2-3 but the grade he gaves him is closer to a 4th or 5th rounder in the context of the class.  He's right to worry about Christian's play strength, it's too low right now and it can be a hindrance for sure.  If you don't have an NFL body then you don't have an NFL body.  But Christian has a good frame, and I feel like Zierlein didn't give him credit for it.  You can build up his body and get him some sand in his pants.  You can improve his run blocking technique and improve his technique for anchoring inside counters.  What you can't improve is a guy's footspeed and agility at 300 pounds.  Christian probably has the best slide in mirror in the class.  He can cut off the edge against real speed such that only the fastest of the fast, like Von Miller, will beat him around the edge.  You can work with that raw talent.

 

The other thing is, Christian becomes a much better value pick in the context of our roster because we can afford to redshirt him and let him get stronger before he plays.  Most teams taking OT early can't.

 

Zierlein is right that we took a lot of risk, but there are mitigating factors.  A lot of the risk came at positions we are unusually good at developing.  And we didn't double up on strong positions or positions that don't play in a rotation.  Each of these guys are going to come in with a strong chance to make the final roster and we probably got two day 1 starters with our first two picks.

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On 4/30/2018 at 6:47 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's a good football player but he doesn't have an NFL body.  He's very slender at the joints and hips and he has chicken legs.  You can get guys stronger, but his play strength is never going to be any good.  The reason he was available late is because there's not much you can do about a player's body when they lack NFL attributes like speed, or in Stroman's case, size.  It will always limit his ceiling.

 

Denzel Ward:
5'11'' 183lbs 31 1/4 arms 8 3/4 hands
4.32 40 16 bench 39'' vert 136'' broad
"Frame is somewhat slight and he feels small in coverage at times"

Greg Stroman:

5'11' 182lbs 29 7/8 arms 8 3/4 hands

4.48 40 16 bench 33.5 vert 113'' broad
"Skinny frame with bone thin legs"


Stroman has NFL measureables, but not elite ones like Ward.

They have the same body size and type. He'll clearly never be Ward, but if you can justify starting Ward with his size, no reason Stroman can't be a solid corner.

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7 minutes ago, Burgold said:

That's a really interesting POV. I can sort of see this draft in four phases.

 

Steals and picks I love:

Payne, Guise, and Settle

 

Picks that made me scratch my head

Christian and Apke

 

Cool moves made for the future: Hamilton, special teams, or necessary depth

Stroman, Hamilton, Quinn (and a couple UDFAs)

 

Moves that made me lose my launch, scream, rant, rave and go nuts

None

Yeah, part of that is me wanting to temper my expectations... staving off the ‘afterglow’ @Skinsinparadise has mentioned.  To be clear/fair though, I can’t recall a time I was outraged with a pick they made.  I try to stay medium. :)

 

 

In evaluating though, I thought about how I’d feel if they didn’t address RB (or got another so so mid round prospect), and didn’t address LG.  I think I’d be concerned at minimum, if not irritated.  

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33 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

They gambled on upside though, which I respect.  They also addressed ST (especially punt return), slot corner, and picked up potential replacements for guys in their final year (Nsheke and Crowder).  

 

Not to comment too much on the rest of your post but this is interesting and may signify the future. Notice we drafted Moreau and then let Breeland go, drafted Roullier and let Long (and Louvao) go, drafted Davis and let Pryor go, drafted Anderson and let Murphy go, etc. I had no real thoughs on us keeping Nsheke beyond this year (really this year at all) but Crowder I thought was a lock. Now a 7th round pick doesn't mean much but could it signify that we have some leverage to say "hey in case your numbers are too high, we have your backup on the roster already".

 

I'll also note that we didn't draft an EDGE guy, so that probably counts against the idea of letting Preston Smith go.

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