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      In today's Divisional Debacle, the Defense under Greg Manusky in the first half, gave up 207 yards of offense (105 rushing/102 passing) and two touchdowns.  That said, they did manage a single INT on which the Offense actually managed to score a touchdown off of. They allowed 12 of 16 passes to be completed . 
       
      In the second half it was 107 yards given up (58 rushing//49 passing) a field goal and a touchdown. They traded their first half pick for a second half sack. However, Dallas completed all five of their pass attempts. 
       
      Don't read that thinking "Well it seems like they tightened up some in the 2nd half."  They didn't. They simply had about half the plays in the second half. 30 plays in the First and 18 in the Second.
       
      So far in two Divisional matchups, the Defense has faltered in the Second half. They start out like a house of fire for the first few drives until their opponents gradually make adjustments. This Defensive coaching staff fails make any adjustments, whether in game or at the very least at Halftime. They've given up over 30 points per game for a total of 63 points given up in two games. While the Bears are up next, the Pats await and they've put up over 70 points in two games. Yeah. Ok. They did shut out the Dolphins today which is looking like the NFL version of ... ahem... shooting fish in a barrel. 
       
      The frustrating thing is Manusky is the DC that the Front Office actively looked to replace during the off season without firing him. When you know they're looking to replace you, most people would make a concentrated effort to show an improvement. Yet Manusky's Defense still keeps acting like it's starring in Groundhog Day.
       
      In his post game presser, when asked directly about if any coaching changes would be made, Gruden said "No, I think after two games – you’re talking about playing two very good offensive football teams and two of the best offensive lines in pro football we just played back-to-back. That’s no excuse whatsoever, but I don’t think we need to hit the panic button yet. We just have to continue to focus on what we can do better to win. Get Jonathan [Allen] in here, get a couple of our corners back in here and let’s go back and strap it up against Chicago [Bears] next week and see what happens.” 
       
      Here's another frustrating thing. The defensive communication was an issue last season as well. Wasn't this supposed to have been worked on during OTA's and Training Camp? It's understandable that the rookies would still be on a learning curve, but NFL vets like Collins and DRC you'd think they would have down by the start of the season. 
       
      Gruden said they're a very talented group on Defense but that they weren't reaching them. When questioned as to why the coaching staff that has been in place for several years, wasn't reaching them, he defended the comment as them being a young defense. “We have some moving parts now. Landon Collins is a veteran guy but this is his first year, [Montez] Sweat’s in his first year, [Cole] Holcomb, it’s his first year, [Jon] Bostic is in his first year. We’re playing Dominique [Rodgers-Cromartie] at corner and this is Jimmy Moreland’s first year, so it’s not like we are the most experienced group. We feel like were very talented, but we`re still fighting through somethings. There are a lot of things to look forward to, without a doubt, but we do have to play better and strap it up and get back to work."

       
       
       
stevemcqueen1

2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

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OMG so the Browns have those two picks in the second round?...duuhh... Not sure why that just dawned on me LOL but holy rollers if done correct the Browns could be in contention for a few Super Bowls...

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2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

On Chad Dukes last night Craig Hoffman was on talking draft and RBs. Both agreed RB will be addressed but something Hoffman said intrigued me. The team wants to compliment Chris Thompson and even Thompson knows he’s best off in a reduced touches role. Apparently the team wants a speed back that can work with Thompson and in some packages have both on the field creating an extra element of speed for the offense with Rookie RB, Thompson, Reed and Richardson on the field together. 

 

Perine would continue to grow as the power back. 

 

It was kind of interesting. Sounded like a RBBC is desired even more now than a 3DB, which was the first I’d heard. They were clearly talking about Ronald Jones, but interesting philosophy, because If that IS the approach, it might lend to a 4th round RB more than we might think. Someone like Hines.

 

thats the first I had heard that. Hoffman even made a comment like Chubb is a feature back and more of a power v. Speed guy which in the tone of the conversation was almost like “sure he’d be a nice player but not what the Skins are envisioning as a complement to what they have”

 

anyone else hearing this?

With Thompson’s productivity/explosion it makes since to try and keep him on the field as much as possible.  Just the threat of him touching the ball should create opportunities.  Hynes might make since or Walton but a sleeper I like is Samuels, Hynes running mate at N.C. state.  He really is an H-back/ tight end who can run the ball.  The guy has some big time production and has size/athleticism on par with some bigger named backs in the draft.  With both Thompson and Samuels on the field Samuels could motion wide or do some limited stuff in line while also be given the flexibility for Thompson to move into a receiver position.

 

Perrine is your goal line and 4 quarter hammer.

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From Draftek FWIW

"According to all of the intel I have received, the Redskins are intent on trading down unless Minkah Fitzpatrick, Denzel Ward, or Derwin James remain on the board (barring a top-5 prospect sliding). Especially in this case, where a Top-4 QB is still available, the Redskins want to leverage the #13 pick and trade down and land one of these three players; Vita Vea, Da'Ron Payne, or Derrius Guice. Here, the Redskins 'stick and pick' Da'Ron Payne, who the organization prefers over Vita Vea, at the team's strongest position of need. "

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^ That’s where I’m at.  Really hope they can find a trade partner if plan A doesn’t work out.  Due to the meat of this draft, and therefore teams wanting to retain their 2nd-4th rounders, it might be hard to get ‘fair’ value, but I’m ok with getting less than expected.  

 

Even something like a trade back (from 13) that nets us a maybe a 1st next year and a 3rd-4th this year.  

 

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46 minutes ago, FrFan said:

From Draftek FWIW

"According to all of the intel I have received, the Redskins are intent on trading down unless Minkah Fitzpatrick, Denzel Ward, or Derwin James remain on the board (barring a top-5 prospect sliding). Especially in this case, where a Top-4 QB is still available, the Redskins want to leverage the #13 pick and trade down and land one of these three players; Vita Vea, Da'Ron Payne, or Derrius Guice. Here, the Redskins 'stick and pick' Da'Ron Payne, who the organization prefers over Vita Vea, at the team's strongest position of need. "

Perfect 

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If they trade down and take Payne I guess it wouldn't be "as bad" as taking him at 13, but IMO we'd still be spending a 1st rounder on an average rotational DL player. If they trade down and take Payne while Guice is still there I will flip my lid. We could end up paying for that colossal mistake for years to come if the Eagles move up to snag him then. They'd end up with a stud bell cow RB for years to come and we'd get a guy who's main accomplishment is simply playing for Alabama.

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22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

If they trade down and take Payne I guess it wouldn't be "as bad" as taking him at 13, but IMO we'd still be spending a 1st rounder on an average rotational DL player. If they trade down and take Payne while Guice is still there I will flip my lid. We could end up paying for that colossal mistake for years to come if the Eagles move up to snag him then. They'd end up with a stud bell cow RB for years to come and we'd get a guy who's main accomplishment is simply playing for Alabama.

I do not agree with this line of thinking.  First of all the Skins have sucked at stopping the run for years and years.  To me, yeah you can go with BPA unless every team in your division is going to smoke you on the run AGAIN because you have never addressed a perennial need. I guarantee you if the Giants take Barkley at 2 they will run the ball down our D's throats without a decent  NT.  And then you got Elliott on the Pukes and yeah it is possible the Eagles take Guice but what are you options?  You take Payne....no pun intended.  Because it is the BPA given the caliber of running backs coming into the division.  It sucks they did not get Hankins or we are not even having this conversation.  

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I wouldn’t be shocked if the Skins don’t address DL/RB/OG with the first two picks. I can easily see DB/ILB/OLB as the best players on the board with both picks. 

 

I also wouldn’t necessarily be upset if that happened either. 

 

Two years from now I want the Skins to have as many good/great/productive players as possible. If that means they don’t address “needs” until later in the draft...I’m totally fine with that. 

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Just listened to Vita V. on Sirius...... not impressed with his demeanor or his answers to preparation and how he learns about the team he is playing as the game goes on. No pro day,  no private workouts.  IMHO I think a previous poster on here is correct,  he seems like he is looking to get paid and doesn't seem to have any drive.... maybe lazy is the word I am looking for. I could be wrong and I usually am when it comes to this stuff. No thanks

Edited by tmandoug1
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7 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I do not agree with this line of thinking.  First of all the Skins have sucked at stopping the run for years and years.  To me, yeah you can go with BPA unless every team in your division is going to smoke you on the run AGAIN because you have never addressed a perennial need. I guarantee you if the Giants take Barkley at 2 they will run the ball down our D's throats without a decent  NT.  And then you got Elliott on the Pukes and yeah it is possible the Eagles take Guice but what are you options?  You take Payne....no pun intended.  Because it is the BPA given the caliber of running backs coming into the division.  It sucks they did not get Hankins or we are not even having this conversation.  

Here is the problem with it. I'm not directing this at you but many including myself do not think Payne even sniffs being one of the best NT's in the draft. There are many other quality NT out there that don't have Alabama on their jersey and very many people on this board only see the crimson tide as the only way to get a good lineman. It's like no one thinks that any NT's exist after Vea and Payne and its maddening.

Edited by fordranger76
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2 hours ago, FrFan said:

From Draftek FWIW

"According to all of the intel I have received, the Redskins are intent on trading down unless Minkah Fitzpatrick, Denzel Ward, or Derwin James remain on the board (barring a top-5 prospect sliding). Especially in this case, where a Top-4 QB is still available, the Redskins want to leverage the #13 pick and trade down and land one of these three players; Vita Vea, Da'Ron Payne, or Derrius Guice. Here, the Redskins 'stick and pick' Da'Ron Payne, who the organization prefers over Vita Vea, at the team's strongest position of need. "

 

I agree with this line of thinking. Tho I wonder what if R. Smith or Edmonds is still on the board.

Edited by lavar1156

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12 hours ago, Mannix said:

 

You’re so close...Vea Ragnow Walton

 

 

Problem is I’m not sure Walton gets to the 4 round.

 

Ragnow is most likely going pick #21 to the Bengals.  Apparently there's a very clued in Cinci radio guy that has gotten the Bengals first rounder correct 9 times out of the last 10.  And that one time he didn't, was when the Texans drafted Will Fuller ahead of them.  He says they're going Frank Ragnow.

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I have to say, I really wouldn't mind Payne one bit after watching a few cut ups and reading about him. I won't pretend to be a scout, nor have I done extensive research, but Payne sounds like just what the Doctor ordered for this defense to transform from middling/below average to stout. And we NEED that in our division.

 

I've read through a lot of comments, good and bad, but those that note his inconsistencies let me ask you this? Do you ever stop and think about the fact that he's just 20 years old? How good would he be if he had played college ball at 21, 22, 23 y/o like most college guys? He will be 25-26 AFTER his rookie contract for crying out loud.

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4 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I have to say, I really wouldn't mind Payne one bit after watching a few cut ups and reading about him. I won't pretend to be a scout, nor have I done extensive research, but Payne sounds like just what the Doctor ordered for this defense to transform from middling/below average to stout. And we NEED that in our division.

 

I've read through a lot of comments, good and bad, but those that note his inconsistencies let me ask you this? Do you ever stop and think about the fact that he's just 20 years old? How good would he be if he had played college ball at 21, 22, 23 y/o like most college guys? He will be 25-26 AFTER his rookie contract for crying out loud.

Agreed. At 20 he hasn’t even finished growing/filling out. He’s going to be a monster.

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23 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

Here is the problem with it. I'm not directing this at you but many including myself do not think Payne even sniffs being one of the best NT's in the draft. There are many other quality NT out there that don't have Alabama on their jersey and very many people on this board only see the crimson tide as the only way to get a good lineman. It's like no one thinks that any NT's exist after Vea and Payne and its maddening.

So who do you recommend and why. I don't mind Payne being drafted at all.  He has more upside then not.  And we need someone.  I don't give a **** that he is from Alabama.  And I have no idea if that is really the mentality of Allen and Gruden.  

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Radio gossip for those interested:

 

Cooley said some Redskins scouts thanked him for touting Ronald Jones on the air

 

Cooley loves R. Smith, T. Edmonds, M. Fitzpatrick, D. James.  He doesn't love Vea or Payne -- thinks Vea is the clear better nose and Payne might be the better third down guy -- he doesn't want either at 13, especially not Payne. 

 

Standig said he typically heard they like Payne better than Vea but someone told him today its Vea.  He said they'd run to the podium if its Fitzpatrick or James falling to 13.

 

Keim below

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/36365/tremaine-edmunds-over-daron-payne-for-the-redskins-it-would-be-a-close-call

It wasn’t an easy decision, and if the Washington Redskins face the same scenario, it wouldn’t be one for them either. In the NFL Nation mock draft, I selected Virginia Tech linebacker Tremaine Edmunds, but did so over another player the Redskins also like: Alabama defensive lineman Da’Ron Payne.

Other players, especially defensive backs Minkah Fitzpatrick and Derwin James, were gone. If the board actually fell this way, my strong hunch: The Redskins would do what they could to trade back. In our mock, we couldn’t trade. However, the Redskins like a couple players in this range and they could position themselves to draft another player in the top three rounds. If there was no trade, the choice would come down to Edmunds and Payne. It’s a close call and, if it truly comes down to these two, it could go either way based on the information I have. My feeling was Edmunds provided better value at No. 13 with his ability to impact every down. But they do like Payne as well. Flip a coin. This one could go either way.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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38 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I do not agree with this line of thinking.  First of all the Skins have sucked at stopping the run for years and years.  To me, yeah you can go with BPA unless every team in your division is going to smoke you on the run AGAIN because you have never addressed a perennial need. I guarantee you if the Giants take Barkley at 2 they will run the ball down our D's throats without a decent  NT.  And then you got Elliott on the Pukes and yeah it is possible the Eagles take Guice but what are you options?  You take Payne....no pun intended.  Because it is the BPA given the caliber of running backs coming into the division.  It sucks they did not get Hankins or we are not even having this conversation.  

 

That depends on your view of Payne. My view of him is that he will not in any way be an impact player in the NFL because he hasn't truly been an impact player in college outside of a bowl game. I personally think he's at best a 2nd rounder based on all of his film and his stats and he's purely a product of hype and the school he played at. I think his impact to our DL will be very minimal. IMO there will be better NT prospects than Payne available in the 2nd round (Phillips, Settle, Hill perhaps) who can also stop the run and who also...gasp...actually produced and put up stats.

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Pat Thorman Retweeted Matt Lombardo

Someone good?

Pat Thorman added,

Matt LombardoVerified account @MattLombardoNFL
Sterling Shepard says he believes Davis Webb can be the #Giants QB for 5-10 years. “He’s been learning from Eli, who’s better to learn from than Eli?” #NFL
 
 

 

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54 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Just listened to Vita V. on Sirius...... not impressed with his demeanor or his answers to preparation and how he learns about the team he is playing as the game goes on. No pro day,  no private workouts.  IMHO I think a previous poster on here is correct,  he seems like he is looking to get paid and doesn't seem to have any drive.... maybe lazy is the word I am looking for. I could be wrong and I usually am when it comes to this stuff. No thanks

 

With his athletic ability he should be dominant. Instead he's meh. But people drool over the potential. His production should be through the roof, but it's just middle of the pack.. ESPECIALLY playing out west.

I'd take a hard pass on that guy.

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27 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

With his athletic ability he should be dominant. Instead he's meh. But people drool over the potential. His production should be through the roof, but it's just middle of the pack.. ESPECIALLY playing out west.

I'd take a hard pass on that guy.

 

Who would you take instead?

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Just now, bird_1972 said:

 

Who would you take instead?

 

Probably James or Fitz if they fall. If not Guice.

I agree with others here that 13 is too high for him, but who will have a bigger impact on the team, a stud rb or an overdrafted NT (Vea or Payne)

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2 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

Probably James or Fitz if they fall. If not Guice.

I agree with others here that 13 is too high for him, but who will have a bigger impact on the team, a stud rb or an overdrafted NT (Vea or Payne)

 

If Fits or James aren't there at 13 and the team decides Vea is too risky, we should definitely trade down and try and pick up a 3rd rounder (at least). 

 

We can grab another RB further down in the 1st or in the 2nd.

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27 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

With his athletic ability he should be dominant. Instead he's meh. But people drool over the potential. His production should be through the roof, but it's just middle of the pack.. ESPECIALLY playing out west.

I'd take a hard pass on that guy.

 

Yeah I was originally 50/50 on Vea. I watched all of his cutups and saw a guy who was huge and incredibly athletic and could move really well for his size who had some serious technique flaws as he basically relied almost exclusively on his size and athleticism. I saw a guy who was dominant on some plays but then seemed to take plays off just as often.

 

The first can easily be fixed if you have good coaching and a dedicated, motivated player. The second was more of a red flag. But I didn't know if it was a conditioning issue or a motiviation/character issue. If it's a conditioning issue that too can be fixed with the proper training and coaching. If it is a motivation/character issue that can't be fixed so easily.

 

Then I started reading more about him and his past and his problems with being lazy about his schoolwork and needing to be forced into doing work so he could actually play. Then I started watching and reading interviews with him and, as @tmandoug1 mentioned, how he didn't do a pro day, didn't do private workouts.

 

Now I'm at a hard pass on the guy. I think he's just an overall lazy dude who doesn't like putting in work unless he's forced to. I think he'll come into the NFL and try to get by without putting in much work and rely on his size as he did in college. And I think he'll end up as a big fat bust. Or, at best, a situational rotational player...but probably not on the team he was drafted by.

 

Could he possibly end up turning it around and suddenly become an intense, motivated dude and ball out? I suppose it's possible. But usually it takes something jarring for that sort of personality change to take hold. Something to really be a wake up call. For example getting drafted high, being lazy, and then getting cut. Maybe we should wait until that happens and see if he's motivated for a second chance. But big time pass on him in this draft.

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7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I was originally 50/50 on Vea. I watched all of his cutups and saw a guy who was huge and incredibly athletic and could move really well for his size who had some serious technique flaws as he basically relied almost exclusively on his size and athleticism. I saw a guy who was dominant on some plays but then seemed to take plays off just as often.

 

The first can easily be fixed if you have good coaching and a dedicated, motivated player. The second was more of a red flag. But I didn't know if it was a conditioning issue or a motiviation/character issue. If it's a conditioning issue that too can be fixed with the proper training and coaching. If it is a motivation/character issue that can't be fixed so easily.

 

Then I started reading more about him and his past and his problems with being lazy about his schoolwork and needing to be forced into doing work so he could actually play. Then I started watching and reading interviews with him and, as @tmandoug1 mentioned, how he didn't do a pro day, didn't do private workouts.

 

Now I'm at a hard pass on the guy. I think he's just an overall lazy dude who doesn't like putting in work unless he's forced to. I think he'll come into the NFL and try to get by without putting in much work and rely on his size as he did in college. And I think he'll end up as a big fat bust. Or, at best, a situational rotational player...but probably not on the team he was drafted by.

 

 

Yeah the guy has huge red flags for me. Athletically all the potential in the world, but mentally he doesn't seem 100% tuned in. Payne I like, just not at 13. I don't think his potential is enough to make him worthy of #13. We'll see if the team thinks otherwise but I hope all the Payne Vea talk is a smokescreen to force someone to drop/trade up.

 

I'd like to think our FO isn't QUITE that dumb as to over draft either of those two for need, when there are far more impactful players (Guice) available. Even though the consensus is Guice would be overdrafted at 13 as well.. I'd be just fine with it. Sure I'd like to trade back and get more picks, but if that isn't an option I think he's the best choice at 13 assuming Fitz and James are gone.

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