2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yes, he was definitely dominant in the NC game.  Everyone can agree on that.  If he played like that every game, or even in just several games this past season, I'm sure he would have been PFF's #1 ranked interior run defender instead of #13.  He would be a top 10 pick.  But what other games did he look even close to that level this past season?  I really think there is an insane amount of recency bias going on when it comes to this prospect.  Constantly pointing to his outlier game as proof is not going to convince me to overlook all the other games I've seen from him.  Not to say he was a bad player in those other games, just saying that I didn't see him consistently making an impact and winning his match-ups like I did in the NC game.

 

I'm not sure that game is that much of an outlier.  He had six tackles and didn't get credit for any TFLs, sacks, or hurries.  It certainly wasn't like his Clemson game where he got an interception and TD reception playing full back on the goal line.  When people say his NC game was an outlier, they mean he was doing a better job pressuring the QB on passing downs than earlier in the season, which is true to some extent.  But his run defense had been consistent and excellent all year.

[bh32]

I just don't get the thinking of people wanting to draft a DB or RB over DL..Has everyone forgot how bad the run defense was last year?

Tired of the Redskins building from the back end forward as it has never worked out then and will not work out now..there is no safety or DB close to Sean Taylor in this draft and even he could not help the poor run defense back then..It's time to fix the front seven once and for all

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm still hopeful to get both the Bama boys. 

 

Jeremiah is typically plugged in and him being an ex-personnel guy I think he's a decent evaluator.  So if he has Payne in the 2nd round -- maybe there is a shot it happens.  Unfortunately, though he has Fitzpatrick going before our pick at 13.   So it might not be easy.

 

Cooley was going over hypotheticals today where you can end up with both Guice and Payne.   He thinks you trade down and get a 2nd or third rounder -- then you use that pick you picked up to trade back up in the 2nd or to the late first.  To me that doesn't sound that easy but you never know. 

[OlufemiBiz]

7 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Absolutely.  I don't need a sexy, big name DT up front.  I want a quiet, yet angry as hell, guy who doesn't care about stats.  The guy is going to be a punching back, so a little bit of humility is a good thing.  The stat sheet is a very small factor when looking at a DT like that.  

 

That said, and I'd like to clarify that I am not on one side or the other of some sort of a Vea vs Payne conversation.  Each of them appear to be very good football players, and Vea looks like he could be special.  My whole point originally was that someone quoted a tweet about how Payne only had 1 sack and minimal TFLs and that is not truly how I want a DT to be gauged.  It's an empty argument that Payne is somehow an inferior talent to whatever metric because he didnt have gawdy stats at Bama.  That Payne's job wasn't one that was going to flash on film, or make people jump up out of their seats.

 

Look at a swat team, there are multiple team members, some of which are athletic, sharpshooting point men.   Payne is the guy who walks up to the door with a battering ram and makes the hole.  That guy, if things are executed correctly, is the last guy in and never even has to pull a trigger. 

 

 

*Great analogy. ???✊?

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, bh32 said:

I just don't get the thinking of people wanting to draft a DB or RB over DL..Has everyone forgot how bad the run defense was last year?

Tired of the Redskins building from the back end forward as it has never worked out then and will not work out now..there is no safety or DB close to Sean Taylor in this draft and even he could not help the poor run defense back then..It's time to fix the front seven once and for all

 

They have had multiple opportunities to fix the DT position in FA (arguably that opportunity still exists).   The concept of FA is partly about filling in the glaring holes.  If they don't do it then they've dug that hole.  If so, I wouldn't use the draft to bail them out and make it a need based exercise with the exception of does need and BPA converge or close enough to it. 

 

The draft IMO should be as much as possible BPA -- Belichick among others have talked about its nuts to forgo what you deem to be a pro-bowl level player at a position that isn't a hot need for a player of major need because over time you win with great players, period.   I do think though some positions are premium ones and defensive tackle is one of them.  Having said that if your scouts tell you that Derwin James for example is the next Landon Collins while Vea and Payne are good but nothing special -- then you take James IMO. 

[bh32]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They have had multiple opportunities to fix the DT position in FA (arguably that opportunity still exists).   The concept of FA is partly about filling in the glaring holes.  If they don't do it then they've dug that hole.  If so, I wouldn't use the draft to bail them out and make it a need based exercise with the exception of does need and BPA converge or close enough to it. 

 

The draft IMO should be as much as possible BPA -- Belichick among others have talked about its nuts to forgo what you deem to be a pro-bowl level player at a position that isn't a hot need for a player of major need because over time you win with great players, period.   I do think though some positions are premium ones and defensive tackle is one of them.  Having said that if your scouts tell you that Derwin James for example is the next Landon Collins while Vea and Payne are good but nothing special -- then you take James IMO. 

If James is way superior than i agree,but i just don't see it..If you cant stop the run i don't care if you have the greatest DB's in the history of the NFL in the secondary you won't win..A DB will not fix the Redskins defensive problems..they need to stop the run and have push up the middle on passing downs..

[Dark Acre]

30 minutes ago, bh32 said:

I just don't get the thinking of people wanting to draft a DB or RB over DL..Has everyone forgot how bad the run defense was last year?

Tired of the Redskins building from the back end forward as it has never worked out then and will not work out now..there is no safety or DB close to Sean Taylor in this draft and even he could not help the poor run defense back then..It's time to fix the front seven once and for all

Dennis Thurman and Everson Walls combined for 10 INTs in 9 games (1982 strike year).  They sure stopped Riggins.  Our secondary is a strength.  We could put Deion Sanders (in his prime) back there and nothing would change.  Actually, everyone in our secondary now tackles better than he did(n't).  I get the idea of not overvaluing players based on need.  However, if you don't fix a critical need, one that determines the shape of the game, you're going to lose.  Go back and watch the Skins' glorious 1982 playoff run (no pun intended).  It was no secret we were going to give the ball to Riggins and he wasn't going to dance around like Barry Sanders, and nobody could stop him.  Hell, Russ Grimm told Randy White that they were going to run it right at him and they did, over and over and over.  Ask Tomsula -- Jim, can you make this guy a stud?  If he says yes, draft him.  Tired of our front 7 being a sieve.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, bh32 said:

If James is way superior than i agree,but i just don't see it..If you cant stop the run i don't care if you have the greatest DB's in the history of the NFL in the secondary you won't win..A DB will not fix the Redskins defensive problems..they need to stop the run and have push up the middle on passing downs..

 

I get the point but I don't see why everything has to be draft dependent.   I don't think James or Fitzpatrick has to be way superior but to me if they are distinctly superior you take them over Vea or Payne. 

 

If the FO is cool to let other teams sign Sheldon Richardson, Poe and lets say they don't get Hankins and their draft board on draft day doesn't flow to rectify that omission - and in turn the D line gets exposed next year -- then if some of the beat guys who cover the team are correct -- we'd likely have a new person running personnel in 2019.   That's fine with me.   

 

I am not rooting for things to go south but I am not going to play the draft where I am skipping better players to offset what I deem to be screw ups in FA.  I think this team in particular has enough B level guys -- we need some A level guys.   Specifically to the defense I'd love Fitzpatrick and James who I think are pro bowl caliber (if we get lucky) and sign Hankins.  

[bh32]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the point but I don't see why everything has to be draft dependent.   I don't think James or Fitzpatrick has to be way superior but to me if they are distinctly superior you take them over Vea or Payne. 

 

If the FO is cool to let other teams sign Sheldon Richardson, Poe and lets say they don't get Hankins and their draft board on draft day doesn't flow to rectify that omission - and in turn the D line gets exposed next year -- then if some of the beat guys who cover the team are correct -- we'd have a new person running personnel in 2019.   That's fine with me.   

 

I am not rooting for things to go south but I am not going to play the draft where I am skipping better players to offset what I deem to be screw ups in FA.  I think this team in particular has enough B level guys -- we need some A level guys.   Specifically to the defense I'd love Fitzpatrick and James who I think are pro bowl caliber (if we get lucky) and sign Hankins.  

If they signed Hankins than by all means draft James or Fitzpatrick,but as of now DL is a way bigger need and would help the team way more than another DB that wouldn't even be a starter this year..

[Skinsinparadise]

 

9 minutes ago, bh32 said:

If they signed Hankins than by all means draft James or Fitzpatrick,but as of now DL is a way bigger need and would help the team way more than another DB that wouldn't even be a starter this year..

 

I'd agree if it was a Superbowl or bust season.   On the FA thread I've been screaming for months to sign D line in FA.  Hankins is still out there.  But if I think James-Fitzpatrick are distinctly better players than Vea or Payne -- let alone both James-Fitzpatrick are arguably mega culture setting type leaders -- to me its absolutely no contest you take them.  

 

I agree with your point 100% if we are talking about FA.  FA to me is need, need, need.  To me if they came out of this off season without a marquee DT its a failure of FA not the draft.   I wouldn't approach the draft that way.  I'd look to draft DT but I wouldn't force it.  But each to their own.  I get your point.  

[bh32]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'd agree if it was a Superbowl or bust season.   On the FA thread I've been screaming for months to sign D line in FA.  Hankins is still out there.  But if I think James-Fitzpatrick are distinctly better players than Vea or Payne -- let alone both James-Fitzpatrick are arguably mega culture setting leaders -- to me its absolutely no contest you take them.  

 

I agree with your point 100% if we are talking about FA.  FA to me is need, need, need.   But I wouldn't approach the draft that way.  But each to their own.  I get your point.  

It's just my opinion...I just want the DL to be fixed FA or draft dosen't matter

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, bh32 said:

It's just my opinion...I just want the DL to be fixed FA or draft dosen't matter

 

To me I am a BPA guy within reason (if its about slight variances I'd go need) in the draft.  And if you couple that with some of my anger about how they've handled or IMO mishandled the DT position in FA for years -- I hate the idea of bailing out FA mistakes by taking an inferior player to a pro-bowler.   That's assuming that's how they see it.  So for example if to them Fitzpatrick is just slightly better than Vea -- take Vea.  But if their scouting report is Fitzpatrick is a stud and Vea or Payne are good but not great -- take Fitzpatrick.  

 

 

On another note, was just watching Jeremiah's draft on the NFL Network.  Jeremiah sold Guice hard.  I have to admit I got a little excitement buzz from it.   They showed Guice highlights -- TDs, rolling over guys -- Casserly kicking in saying it's a good move.  Fun watch. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

*Trade 1: 1.13 to Dallas for 1.19 & 2.18

*Trade 2: 2.12 to DET for 2.19 & 3.18

 

1.19: Derrius Guice, RB LSU

2.18: Frank Ragnow, C Arkansas

2.19: Jessie Bates, FS Wake Forest

3.18: Tim Settle, NT Va. Tech

4.9: Anthony Miller, WR Memphis

5.5: Kevin Tolliver, CB LSU

5.26: Jac Cichy, ILB Wisconsin

6.31: Javon Rolland-Jones, Edge Ark St

7.12: Will Richardson, OT NC State

7.23: Jordan Akins, TE UCF

 

tried to go BPA which is why Bates was the pick over reaching a bit for Settle. But I like it overall. Impact RB, DL and OL and a potential long term starter at each level on defense. Also doubt Miller slips to 4.9 but very good future seating there in anticipation of losing Crowder next year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

*Trade 1: 1.13 to Dallas for 1.19 & 2.18

*Trade 2: 2.12 to DET for 2.19 & 3.18

 

1.19: Derrius Guice, RB LSU

2.18: Frank Ragnow, C Arkansas

2.19: Jessie Bates, FS Wake Forest

3.18: Tim Settle, NT Va. Tech

4. 9: Anthony Miller, WR Memphis

 

That would be an insanely good draft.  Ragnow is one of my favorite players, some think he can sneak into the later part of the first.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That would be an insanely good draft.  Ragnow is one of my favorite players, some think he can sneak into the later part of the first.

Yeah that draft would never happen haha. But it is using Matt Miller’s big board and I tend to agree with how he ranks things. That draft would address major needs now and build some back-end depth for future protections. 

 

Actually the only player in that draft that’s drafted below where I think is Miller. But the rest line up pretty well with where they stack up on big board rankings 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Yeah that draft would never happen haha. But it is using Matt Miller’s big board and I tend to agree with how he ranks things. That draft would address major needs now and build some back-end depth for future protections. 

 

Actually the only player in that draft that’s drafted below where I think is Miller. But the rest line up pretty well with where they stack up on big board rankings 

Yeah Miller in most mocks seems to be in the mid 2nd to early 3rd Rd. range.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, bh32 said:

It's just my opinion...I just want the DL to be fixed FA or draft dosen't matter

Think about some of the better run attacking SSs and then think about who had their back. Seattle had a small line and small LBers and Chancellor was free to attack the los. Why? Thomas. Polumalu? Clark. Anyone in front of Reed. I agree with you that we need a talent in the middle of our line. Absolutely yes, but they don't play in a vacuum and a legit FS allows 10 other guys to attack down hill more aggressively. 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

It is amazing to me that people think the Skins need to use the #13 pick on the DL (specifically NT) or all is lost. This team has recently had impact players at every position that were drafted in rounds 2-7. Jesus, Matt I was a 5th round pick. 

 

If if they use 13 on DL...great. If they wait till the 4th to get a NT...great. But passing up a superior talent for a “need” is stupid imo. 

 

Like @Skinsinparadise said...FA is for need. The draft is to get the best players possible for your team...cheap...for the next four years. 

[Hail2theSkins24]

Unless a stud free falls (like J Allen) then I’m fully onboard of trading back in this draft. Hopefully we find a trade partner where teams are in a frenzy to trade up for Lamar Jackson. 

 

 If we don’t pick until the 2nd round I’ll be happy as long as we are compensated accordingly. To me it seems like player rankings from 12-45 can go any way

[ultravin]

I hope Vita Vea is the pick.  Dude can play running back too.  He can be our “fridge” on goal line/short situations.  

[HTTRDynasty]

I wonder how much of an effect this is having on our reluctance to sign Hankins, and if this is something that will prevent us from taking Vea at 13 if Ward, James, or Fitz are not there.  I hope not.  It was too small of a sample size IMO for the FO to have too much faith in this stat differential.

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Allen and Iaon together was dominant. I doubt they're thinking its enough. Lanier isn't a starter. I think the know what having a third solid impact starter instead of Hood would do. 

[sjinhan]

Man just go and get Bryant and trade Doctson for some draft value....  if Doctson is any good then we need to pay Bryant type money anyways....

 

trade Doctson for 2nd and 3rd... or something like that... unload him for some draft picks... would love to get two 2nds for Doctson

[HigSkin]

Derrius Guice is in studio and joining the NFLN table this morning for anyone interested...

[Going Commando]

11 hours ago, bh32 said:

If they signed Hankins than by all means draft James or Fitzpatrick,but as of now DL is a way bigger need and would help the team way more than another DB that wouldn't even be a starter this year..

 

Drafting to fill needs is never the best way to draft.  SIP is right that you don't abandon BPA because you didn't sign some free agent.  The draft is about finding foundation pieces that will hopefully be a part of your team for seven to ten seasons.  Rookies should never be relied upon to fill in immediate roster holes anyway.